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Jeweler has this stone. Looks OK; thoughts?

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dumbo

Shiny_Rock
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Jan 5, 2015
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Any reason not to recommend this stone (aside from clarity, which won't be an issue as described below).

A local jeweler brought this in for one of my best friends and his GF to see: J SI2, 1.87ct. He forwarded me some images that the wholesaler sent along. I didn't see the stone in person, but they both thought it looked great, and she couldn't see the inclusions without a loupe (although in the blown-up image, they are very obvious; she had no concerns). I have to say, she saw my wife's BG Cape pendant (M, 1.6ct) and absolutely fell in love with the color and brilliance. She is looking for a similarly warm stone, close to or above 2ct. Online shopping is out though: her family and the family who owns the jewelry store are very close and have been great customers for 2 generations (she being the 3rd).

Without seeing the cert, I would guess it is a 60/60 cut, but it does look very bright. Is there any reason not to recommend it? If so, why? I initially thought that they should look at something that closer to the Super Ideal I got from BG (in terms of dimensions) but these images look pretty darn strong in terms of light reflection. 600_200495-ASET BLACK (FANCY)-01.JPG 600_200495-IDEALSCOPE-01.JPG 600_200495-OFFICELIGHT BLACK-01.JPG
 
HI:

Is this stone for an ER or pendant?

cheers--Sharon
 
Nothing wrong with the stone itself.
It is a 60/60 with a large and flat table and steep pavilion side. It has strong light return. At a right price and as long as you understand what you are getting, it can be a great choice.
 
flyingpig said:
Nothing wrong with the stone itself.
It is a 60/60 with a large and flat table and steep pavilion side. It has strong light return. At a right price and as long as you understand what you are getting, it can be a great choice.
Click to expand...


Agreed. As size appears to matter, this stone has appeal.
 
flyingpig said:
Nothing wrong with the stone itself.
It is a 60/60 with a large and flat table and steep pavilion side. It has strong light return. At a right price and as long as you understand what you are getting, it can be a great choice.
Click to expand...

HMMM, can you clarify "as long as you know what you are getting"? In a way that I can pass it along to someone who has basically zero knowledge or interest in the subject? He is going to go off my opinion on what he should buy, but I don't really have one!
 
I do not know the exact proportions and angles of the diamond you posted. But, based on what I see, it appears to have a large table, a low crown angle and a steep pavilion angle. It should perform somewhat similar to the first diamond in this video.
I must say that I am not a fan of the light structure used in GOG's videos. It just punishes 60/60 diamonds with short and skinny arrows. It is not a fair and complete comparison. However, it is still useful in seeing difference between a 60/60 and a hearts and arrows.

In general, the diamond you posted should have great light return when exposed to alot of diffused light from all angles as the ASET/IS and actual diamond images suggest. eg (overcast sky, evenly lit office environment). It may suffer a bit under spotlighting and in some restaurant lighting conditions, where you have strong light coming from certain angles only.
 
Larger table, steeper pavilion, longer lower halves, and painting -
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds
Compared to stones with the proportions usually preferred on PS (I personally have found shallow crown/painted combos to be visibly lacking in scintillation) this will be a very bright stone, at the expense of some contrast and coloured light output - by “bright” I mean “lots of white light return through various lighting environments”.

I suspect these are nuances PSers will have opinions on and your friend and his GF will not. So moving onto more practical observations -
1. A J is quite a bit further up the colour scale than an M. If she loved the cape colours... is a J truly what she’s looking for? A J of this size with those proportions will look “white” to pretty much everyone in almost all lighting types unless there’s a higher-coloured stone in proximity for direct comparison.
2. Did they confirm that the inclusions aren’t visually troublesome in various lighting types? Some lighting will obscure inclusions more effectively than others - make sure they’re aware that they should ensure eyeclean to their requirements under spotlights, indoors, outdoors or by a window on a cloudy day.
 
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It seems brick and mortar jewelers prefer larger spread with bright white flashes. We here tend to prefer smaller tables (I love a 55 table: I don’t care for a 57-58 table) and more fire (colored flashes).

I think most consumers like your friends who don’t obsess about diamonds are very happy with the white flashes.
 
whitewave said:
It seems brick and mortar jewelers prefer larger spread with bright white flashes. We here tend to prefer smaller tables (I love a 55 table: I don’t care for a 57-58 table) and more fire (colored flashes).

I think most consumers like your friends who don’t obsess about diamonds are very happy with the white flashes.
Click to expand...

OK, now you are speaking my language. I did a lot of research when purchasing my wifes e-ring and found her a Fiery Ideal Cut (AGS 000). The diamond is very fiery: the colors remind me of being a kid. We had a wood fireplace (I grew up in a small logging town in Oregon, so if you had a axe or chainsaw, you had heat) and I used to love throwing Red Devil powder into the fireplace, which destroys creosote to keep the chance of a flue fire down. The powder blows up into multiple colors: blues, greens, oranges, reds, and purples. As a kid, it was like lighting off fireworks every night. Her diamond reminds me of those colors.

In comparison, this one in question will be more white light and less "interesting color". Other than that, pretty similar?

FYI, here is an idealscope of her stone. 600_172782-IDEALSCOPE-01.JPG
 
yssie said:
Larger table, steeper pavilion, longer lower halves, and painting -
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds
Compared to stones with the proportions usually preferred on PS (I personally have found shallow crown/painted combos to be visibly lacking in scintillation) this will be a very bright stone, at the expense of some contrast and coloured light output - by “bright” I mean “lots of white light return through various lighting environments”.

I suspect these are nuances PSers will have opinions on and your friend and his GF will not. So moving onto more practical observations -
1. A J is quite a bit further up the colour scale than an M. If she loved the cape colours... is a J truly what she’s looking for? A J of this size with those proportions will look “white” to pretty much everyone in almost all lighting types unless there’s a higher-coloured stone in proximity for direct comparison.
2. Did they confirm that the inclusions aren’t visually troublesome in various lighting types? Some lighting will obscure inclusions more effectively than others - make sure they’re aware that they should ensure eyeclean to their requirements under spotlights, indoors, outdoors or by a window on a cloudy day.
Click to expand...

Good points. Regarding the original stone: is this, say, 97% of the overall performance of what people here typically prefer (such as super ideal, as in my wife's Cape pendant). If so, it will be more than adequate.

I don't know enough about color, but my wife's e-ring is an I and her BGD pendant is an M. There is a significant difference in color from the side. Face up, they are very close. You can note the color side by side, but viewing each independently, I could guess which is which 80% of the time. Of course, any "super ideal" cut is going to face up more colorless than a poorly cut diamond.

Finding a well-cut M might be tough for them through a B&M situation. When we got ours, BGD must have had a huge diamond rough that was M color, as they had a ton of 1.5 to 3.2 carat M color, VVS2-VVS1 stones. Those have all since sold, and buying online is out in this case at any rate.

I don't really know how the B&M world works; how many suppliers can they pull from, and what are they willing to bring in for viewing? My buddy isn't the pushy critical type: I am sure he isn't going to ask them to bring in 10 diamonds. Buying online is a lot easier if one is armed with the necessary knowledge. I want to help but not to "be involved". I hate it when customers bring in their "expert" friends into my store, most of whom are self-styled experts but in reality are opinionated types who know just enough to be dangerous. My experiences with a typical B&M place have not been great; very few have well cut diamonds, and it is much more about making a sale and providing an emotional lifeline rather than putting the customer into the best product. They showed me an AGS cut Grade 2 2.05 carat for much more than the cost of my wife's AGS000 FIC.

I am trying to be helpful without overwhelming them with too much information and giving them the "typical PS'er analysis paralysis". They want to buy something that is bright, pretty, well-priced, and then to move on with other stuff (planning a wedding, for one).
 
dumbo said:
OK, now you are speaking my language. I did a lot of research when purchasing my wifes e-ring and found her a Fiery Ideal Cut (AGS 000). The diamond is very fiery: the colors remind me of being a kid. We had a wood fireplace (I grew up in a small logging town in Oregon, so if you had a axe or chainsaw, you had heat) and I used to love throwing Red Devil powder into the fireplace, which destroys creosote to keep the chance of a flue fire down. The powder blows up into multiple colors: blues, greens, oranges, reds, and purples. As a kid, it was like lighting off fireworks every night. Her diamond reminds me of those colors.

In comparison, this one in question will be more white light and less "interesting color". Other than that, pretty similar?

FYI, here is an idealscope of her stone. 600_172782-IDEALSCOPE-01.JPG
Click to expand...

I think the majority of consumers don’t know to look for fire or that you can get a diamond with fire.

So a lively sparkly diamond with eye catching white light is terrific.

I’m like you— I love the kaleidoscope of fire.
 
Looking at these: what a difference between my wife's and this diamond, especially with the ASET. Looking at both images, can someone quantify the technical differences? The green hexadecagon shape around the table is not visible in the 60-60 stone. What does that mean?

600_200495-ASET WHITE-01.JPG 600_172782-ASET BLACK (FANCY)-01.JPG
 
dumbo said:
Hi,

I was referring to the 16-sided green decahedron that is visible on the black backlit ASET. I assume that marks the edge of the table, and is referred to on the AGS cert as "less bright".
Click to expand...

I apologize. I misread your original question and posted information that was not helpful. :doh:

Re-reading your question you are referring to the blue & orange highlighted areas below. In layman's terms I believe the angles are playing against one another which is causing the visual difference, and effectively causing a sort of painting/digging effect. I am not as well versed on this topic as I'd like to be so I will defer to those with more experience to comment in more technical depth. Perhaps @yssie, @ac117, @Wink, @John Pollard, @Texas Leaguer or @rockysalamander can provide a more enlightening response.

https://www.pricescope.com/journal/visible_effects_painting_digging_superideal_diamonds

Inked600_172782-ASET BLACK (FANCY)-01_LI.jpg
Inked600_200495-ASET WHITE-01_LI.jpg
 
Ok, that makes more sense. I wonder why this was cut this way?
 
dumbo said:
In comparison, this one in question will be more white light and less "interesting color". Other than that, pretty similar?
Click to expand...
If your friend’s wife fell in love with your wife’s stone’s brightness and warmth, this might be quite a different look for her. The arrows are much thinner, it’s whiter and the cut favours a white light return instead of fire. Maybe check she’s ok with those differences? I assume she’s seen this and it’s not all a surprise?
 
Yes, she liked it! I can't say she has seen that many diamonds, though.

From what am reading, it should be "just fine". Perhaps not to everyone's taste here, but still stunning. I suppose if she becomes the type to start posting here, she can get it recut to better specs!
 
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