James Allen: Help fiinding the best cut warm (K-N) eye clean diamond for gold pendant (Budget US$1,200)

[CathB]

Hi everyone.

I am looking to treat myself to a little gift of a solitaire gold (yellow or rose) bezel pendant in a warm coloured diamond. It's something I intend to wear everyday and I have a very modest budget of USD$1,200 for the diamond. I would like to find the best cut diamond I can in that price range with the cut being the most important criteria. I'm looking a JamesAllen as I'm not very good at choosing and they have pictures/vids of the stones . Also, they deliver free to Australia

I found this table for "choosing" and asked for assistance in James Allen site as I came up with too many selections:

Table %	54.0% to 57.0%
Depth %	61.0% to 62.5%
Crown Angle	34.0° to 35.0°
Pavilion Angle	40.6° to 41.0°
Lower Girdles	75% to 80%
Star Facets	50% to 55%
Girdle Thickness	T – M – ST

I just confused myself (more than ever) even with the amazing help of the James Allen assistant (not sure if I can mention names).

However, the following diamond is recommended to me by Paul at Beyond 4Cs and it looks amazing.

0.70 Carat round diamond

This 0.7 carat round diamond M color vs2 clarity has Excellent proportions and a diamond grading report from GIA

www.jamesallen.com

The mounting is the following:

14K Yellow Gold Bezel Diamond Pendant (Mounting)

This hand crafted, bold design accents the beauty of the single round brilliant diamond of your choice by using a thin bezel and circle accented basket. This pendant comes on an 18 inch chain with a lobster clasp. Center diamond or gemstone purchase required

www.jamesallen.com

Any thoughts please before I go through with the purchase? By any chance there's a better diamond out there, however miraculous? General thoughts on the pendant project itself? Anything I need to look out for?

Thank you all so very much in advance.

Kindest regards,
Cath

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

For a pendant this chart works better - stay to the left hand side.
Shallower proportioned diamonds are bigger, look even bigger still and do not show as much dirt when dirty.

 

[dmack]

Looking just at the diamond and not the numbers, it’s gorgeous. I love the fat arrows. I have the same pendant and love it! I got it in 16” length because that’s what works best for me re: where I want the diamond to fall on my neck. Here’s the SMTB thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-sliding-bezel-pendant.264076/#post-4915362

 

[CathB]

For a pendant this chart works better - stay to the left hand side.
Shallower proportioned diamonds are bigger, look even bigger still and do not show as much dirt when dirty.

Wow. Thank you so much for the information Garry. I'm sure to use it.

 

[CathB]

Looking just at the diamond and not the numbers, it’s gorgeous. I love the fat arrows. I have the same pendant and love it! I got it in 16” length because that’s what works best for me re: where I want the diamond to fall on my neck. Here’s the SMTB thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-sliding-bezel-pendant.264076/#post-4915362

Thank you very much. You just made me sure that this is the pendant I want after looking at your pics. It looks gorgeous on you

 

[sledge]

Be sure to place the JA stone on hold that you linked. You don’t want someone sniping it out from under you while you are tying to finalize your decision.

I assume you are good with the tint? Looks like a nice stone. Can you please post the lab report to double check the proportions?

 

[tyty333]

I really like that stone @CathB ...love the fat arrows and the color is lovely IMO. It looks to have a little bit of leakage around
5:30 but overall looks like a lovely stone to me. Can you post the GIA report so we can have a look?

 

[CathB]

Here is the report from Janes Allen. Thank you again everyone.

 

[CathB]

Be sure to place the JA stone on hold that you linked. You don’t want someone sniping it out from under you while you are tying to finalize your decision.

I assume you are good with the tint? Looks like a nice stone. Can you please post the lab report to double check the proportions?

I did place a hold on the diamond Sledge, thank you. I do love the tint. I have a CBI M colour stone in my rose gold engagement ring and I love it so much when I can see warm sparkles. Reminds me of a beautiful sunset. But I think that's because it's so well cut, so I'm hesitant to buy anything that isn't. I can wait longer to save up for a better stone as it's something I will wear daily.

 

[Lookinagain]

I think it is a really pretty stone and will look great in that setting. I really like M colored stones in yellow gold. I have a 3 stone M color rings in YG and it's one of my favorites.

 

[tyty333]

Is there a problem with buying and returning if its not what you're expecting? I think it could be hard if you are going to be
comparing it to a CBI and expecting close to that. It could be "good enough" but you wont know unless you see it.
(I know buying and returning may be a hassle you don't want to go through).

 

[sledge]

@CathB I love your response to tint. Your expression of words makes me believe you are not only okay with the tint but truly find it to be an attribute. The fact warmer stones trade cheaper is a byproduct and gravy. I wish everyone were as clear and confident in their choices.

And like @tyty333, I also picked up on your fondness of your CBI stone. The GIA stone looks very promising but I would also recommend you ship loose to inspect and compare side by side. If it doesn’t make your heart thump hard like the CBI then I would return and save for another CBI. This isn’t the least hassle or cheapest option, but it’s exactly how I would advise my wife if our money was on the line. You speak with love and affection for your CBI and I want your pendant to be the same experience for you.

In regards to the proportions I would expect it to pull an HCA < 1 due to the larger table, shallow crown and shallow pavilion. If you aren’t aware scores 0-1 are recommended for pendants and earrings because they emit a little more white light return over rainbow light. And the concern with potential obstruction is taken away by the style of use (you don’t examine pendants and earrings close up like an e-ring).

On GIA stones, the lower girdle facets (LGF) are reported to the nearest 5% and in this case that means the actual value could land between 73-77. Given the “larger” table of 57 I would say these fall on the short side of that because of how fat the arrows look. I don’t think 57 is overly large FYI. But if you take perfect 75 actual LGF on an otherwise identical stone but with a larger table then the arrows would look more skinny.



I mention all this because numerically lower LGF’s not only produce fat arrows but they produce a little more rainbow light return in indirect/soft lighting. Numerically larger provide a little more white light return and does better in very bright lighting. Actuals around 77-78 are considered balanced. My point being those fat arrows could help balance the performance of the stone. My concern would be the fat arrows create more darkness/contrast that may enhance obstruction but again because setting as a pendant I think you will be okay.

I do find the stone very interesting and am curious how it will compare against the CBI.

Facets: The Lower Halves

Within robust diamond proportion sets, the lower girdle facets have great influence on the life and character of a diamond, particularly if the diamond has good patterning (optical symmetry or ‘Hearts & Arrows’ diamonds).

www.whiteflash.com

 

[CathB]

@CathB I love your response to tint. Your expression of words makes me believe you are not only okay with the tint but truly find it to be an attribute. The fact warmer stones trade cheaper is a byproduct and gravy. I wish everyone were as clear and confident in their choices.

And like @tyty333, I also picked up on your fondness of your CBI stone. The GIA stone looks very promising but I would also recommend you ship loose to inspect and compare side by side. If it doesn’t make your heart thump hard like the CBI then I would return and save for another CBI. This isn’t the least hassle or cheapest option, but it’s exactly how I would advise my wife if our money was on the line. You speak with love and affection for your CBI and I want your pendant to be the same experience for you.

In regards to the proportions I would expect it to pull an HCA < 1 due to the larger table, shallow crown and shallow pavilion. If you aren’t aware scores 0-1 are recommended for pendants and earrings because they emit a little more white light return over rainbow light. And the concern with potential obstruction is taken away by the style of use (you don’t examine pendants and earrings close up like an e-ring).

On GIA stones, the lower girdle facets (LGF) are reported to the nearest 5% and in this case that means the actual value could land between 73-77. Given the “larger” table of 57 I would say these fall on the short side of that because of how fat the arrows look. I don’t think 57 is overly large FYI. But if you take perfect 75 actual LGF on an otherwise identical stone but with a larger table then the arrows would look more skinny.



I mention all this because numerically lower LGF’s not only produce fat arrows but they produce a little more rainbow light return in indirect/soft lighting. Numerically larger provide a little more white light return and does better in very bright lighting. Actuals around 77-78 are considered balanced. My point being those fat arrows could help balance the performance of the stone. My concern would be the fat arrows create more darkness/contrast that may enhance obstruction but again because setting as a pendant I think you will be okay.

I do find the stone very interesting and am curious how it will compare against the CBI.

Facets: The Lower Halves

Within robust diamond proportion sets, the lower girdle facets have great influence on the life and character of a diamond, particularly if the diamond has good patterning (optical symmetry or ‘Hearts & Arrows’ diamonds).

www.whiteflash.com

Thank you SO much Sledge. I haven't come across a super ideal M coloured stone under 1 ct and the cheapest one I've seen of any size is a BGD Cape M coloured for USD$4400. I'm kind of glad the colour is not that popular in a way

I think this James Allen stone could be a good compromise for the time being, as you said, to see if I like any other stones since I'm comparing it to a CBI in my head.

Thank you so much for the guideline above, I am bookmarking and using as guideline for future endeavors too.

 

[CathB]

Is there a problem with buying and returning if its not what you're expecting? I think it could be hard if you are going to be
comparing it to a CBI and expecting close to that. It could be "good enough" but you wont know unless you see it.
(I know buying and returning may be a hassle you don't want to go through).

Hi tyty333. I'm in Sydney Australia, fresh into another set of lockdown, so returning will be very inconvenient and expensive with the customs fees, etc. So you are so correct that I need to have realistic expectations and need to be prepared to accept discrepancies, just in case. Although, I'm not expecting it to be in the same level as my CBI M colour but I think I will still love the warm sparkles. The side stones in my ER are uncerted M coloured a little over half carat each. Wink picked them out though and they don't look out of place to my untrained eyes. I'm actually a little more worried now about the James Allen settings than the diamond.

 

[Lookinagain]

What concerns you about the setting? Just curious.

 

[tyty333]

Oh gosh, forgot about the Aussie thing...yes, that makes seeing in person and returning difficult.

I just went and looked at the setting. I wish they had pictures of "real" pendants they had made for customers
as they do for rings. Maybe look at some of the rings that are bezel set to see how well they are done.

Not sure if it will help alleviate any fears?

14K White Gold Bezel Set Diamond Engagement Ring

A timeless classic, this bezel set engagement ring features a sleek band for a tailored look. The bezel is custom made to fit the center diamond or gemstone of your choice. *This ring may be custom ordered to fit fancy shape diamonds and gemstones.

www.jamesallen.com

 

[sledge]

Given you are in Australia and returns will be a headache, have you considered:

1. Talking with @Wink to see what M CBI’s may be in the pipe, if any. And at what approximate cost to determine if you want to spend that much.

2. Maybe allow @Wink an opportunity to source a non-CBI for your pendant project? You indicated he picked some uncerted stones and did well.

3. The majority of JA stones are “virtual inventory” meaning they don’t physically own the stone and other vendors can likely access the same stone. JA started blocking lab report numbers because enough people found them on the JA site and then found the identical stone cheaper elsewhere. Yet if you are savvy with searches (same carat weight, same spread dimensions, same clarity, etc) you can sometimes find the exact stone elsewhere without the report number. It’s just harder. Once you think you’ve found it, compare the clarity plots.

4. My point to #3 is that multiple vendors may be able to access that same “JA stone” if those vendors deal with the same supplier that currently holds it. For instance Yeukitel @ IDJ can source stones and bring them in and do a full array of imaging, photos, etc to give you more assurance of what you are buying. In fact @lovedogs almost went this route before HPD (now Wolf, aka Wink) came through with the CBI she ultimately purchased. The IDJ stone was amazing as well but she had her heart set on a CBI. I also understand that WF and B2C offers similar services as IDJ on virtual stones.

 

[CathB]

Given you are in Australia and returns will be a headache, have you considered:

1. Talking with @Wink to see what M CBI’s may be in the pipe, if any. And at what approximate cost to determine if you want to spend that much.

2. Maybe allow @Wink an opportunity to source a non-CBI for your pendant project? You indicated he picked some uncerted stones and did well.

3. The majority of JA stones are “virtual inventory” meaning they don’t physically own the stone and other vendors can likely access the same stone. JA started blocking lab report numbers because enough people found them on the JA site and then found the identical stone cheaper elsewhere. Yet if you are savvy with searches (same carat weight, same spread dimensions, same clarity, etc) you can sometimes find the exact stone elsewhere without the report number. It’s just harder. Once you think you’ve found it, compare the clarity plots.

4. My point to #3 is that multiple vendors may be able to access that same “JA stone” if those vendors deal with the same supplier that currently holds it. For instance Yeukitel @ IDJ can source stones and bring them in and do a full array of imaging, photos, etc to give you more assurance of what you are buying. In fact @lovedogs almost went this route before HPD (now Wolf, aka Wink) came through with the CBI she ultimately purchased. The IDJ stone was amazing as well but she had her heart set on a CBI. I also understand that WF and B2C offers similar services as IDJ on virtual stones.

Sledge I didn't even think of Wink as it's such a small project, I will send an inquiry through to Wink. You are right, I should start my inquiry there, also just in case by some miracle there's a CBI that I can afford .
Thank you so much again!.

 

[CathB]

What concerns you about the setting? Just curious.

Hi lookinagain,
I wanted a jump ring at 17" on their 18" chain and that addition makes it a custom piece which needed a separate quote and valuation if a return policy will apply. Also, being a custom, the lower sales price didn't apply. I was looking at JA specifically to use the stock standard item to save since I will be compromising on getting a yellow gold instead of a rose gold mounting. If that savings will no longer apply then there is no point. I wanted the jump ring put in at the time of making so I don't have to get it done here. We're in lockdown again, apparently not for long, but who knows.