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JA Upgrade Problem

Scooba116

Scooba116

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
199
Hello all. I hope some of your have experience upgrading with JA because I have hit a brick wall and am at a loss for what to do next.

I just got married after a long engagement and want to upgrade the JA emerald cut in my engagement ring. I found a new diamond that I liked on the website but it was an SI1 and with it being an emerald cut I was concerned about the visibility of the inclusions. I also wanted to see an ASET of the stone. JA told me the diamond was overseas and that I had to purchase it in order for them to get an ASET. I did purchase it and I received the ASET and the stone last week.

I like the new diamond very much, with one reservation. When the diamond is loose, I can see an inclusion even from a distance and it bothers me, but when I have it in one of those temporary spring settings, the inclusion completely disappears to me and I am very happy with it. I'm guessing this is due to the reflections from the metal and I hope that the inclusion will not be visible once it is set in my setting but I will not know until it is set.

So I spoke with JA yesterday to try to get some more information on the upgrade process (I cannot find any on the website), to get a quote on the reset, and to find out what would happen if I was not happy with the diamond once it is set in case I am able to see the inclusion that bothers me. The response was that there is a 30-day return period if I am unhappy and they will help me find another diamond because my old one will likely already be sold by that time, fair enough. I was told by 2 employees that I could not get a quote on the reset until my ring and the new stone were back in there hands and a 3rd employee gave me a "very rough" estimate of $200. So I arranged to have to old ring and new stone shipped back and I have everything packed up to drop off at fed ex after work.

But this afternoon I received an email saying the following:

Concerning the new diamond(SKU3151275), our policies and the agreements we have with our diamond suppliers prevent us from simply having the stone returned and repurchased to extend the 30 day return window. The original shipping date of 7/11/17 will still remain the first day of the 30 day return period. If you were to select a different diamond we could apply the upgrade towards that new purchase and of course the return period on that would be moved up accordingly. It is important to keep this in mind as the process of modifying or remaking your current setting to mount any new stone will take between 2-3 weeks and currently would definitely extend beyond your current return period.​

Concerning that modification, we will not know the cost associated with doing so until the ring has been evaluated by our jewelers. I hope I stressed this to you in our conversation last night, as the figure I provided was a rough estimate only, and there is a chance the cost of modifying the ring would be higher. Setting larger stone like this could even necessitate a remake of the ring, which would be at least several hundred dollars. We would of course notify you of any and fees once we were aware of them. All of these fees associated with modifying and setting the new diamond into your current setting would not be eligible for refund at any point, so it is important to be absolutely sure that this is the route you would want to go before making any decisions.​

So I'm confused. Was I supposed to commit to an upgrade and all the labor involved with a reset and give up my diamond without even seeing the new diamond? And what do I do now? Give up the great new stone that will likely be perfect for me because on the off chance it's not perfect, I will be stuck with it? Did I do something wrong here? Again, there does not appear to be any information on the website about the upgrade process, no warning that you cannot see the new diamond first or anything. Anyone have a similar experience?? Please give me some advice!
 
Is JA still a bootstrapped startup ?

I'd be mortified writing such a letter as you are quoting ...
 
Yes, it seems completely unreasonable for them to say what they said in the letter, where you might lose your original stone before seeing the new completed ring.

Maybe someone will tag him again so he can explain this process himself.
 
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Its just that you have used up part of your 30 day return policy by viewing the stone first. James Allen does not own most of their stones (just like
ID Jewelry, Enchanted Diamonds and others) and looks like they have to follow the return requirements of whoever owns it. This was a virtual stone they called in.

You have done nothing wrong but neither has JA. Unfortunately, viewing the stone, sending it back and having it set then
getting it back to you does not fit into the 30 day model very well. Usually people can decide when they see a stone in person. Perhaps
you should find another stone that you do not have to question whether the inclusion will disappear or not when set.

Edit ...and BTW, I think JA has done a good job at spelling everything out that you need to consider so
that you can make an educated decision. If they didnt tell you all the above you could have had quite
a surprise thinking that you still had 30 days after receiving the stone the second time.
 
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Yes, I think finding a new stone with better clarity is likely the solution here.
 
What is the clarity of the new stone?
 
If you see an internal mark which is not going to fit under a prong, then you will always see it later when you go looking to find it. Once you know where to look and how to focus, it will be there. Don't go forward when you have a problem. It will not get better over time.

For all the money and effort you put into this hunt, get a diamond that meets your standards and then go forward with no anxiety. The 30 day period does need to begin at the beginning, not somewhere in the midst of it all. Time is an element that is a part of these transactions and you cannot stretch it.

A large business can't be run like a hobby enterprise. Rules need to be followed or others will feel inclined to stretch the rules whenever then wish, too. It just won't work well that way and this is one area where reality hits hard. Experience tells me that the best course is to find a diamond you are totally pleased with where there is no time factor and doubt / pressure combination. You will be far happier and safer.
 
The new stone is an SI1. Unfortunately, I can't find another stone with a higher clarity and decent cut in the right color range with the same spread without going WAY above the price of this stone.

I cannot for the life of me see the inclusion in the spring setting. I guess I will look into having it set locally so it won't take 2-3 weeks. It's too bad it will take JA that long.

How do these policies with the virtual stones work? If I send it back, does it actually have to go back overseas before it gets put back up on the website?

And I have read on here that JA offers ASETs before purchase? Not if the stone is overseas? There was nothing on their website indicating that this was a virtual, overseas stone. It was listed and displayed and pictured and filmed just like all the others.
 
I hear OP's concern, and at the same time, I think JA's response has been adequate.
This transaction has got a bit complicated because the OP is reusing the existing setting. For this reason, the old ring and the new stone must be sent back at the same time. If the new stone was purchased as a completed ring, the OP could have done more realistic assessment. Of course, you don't get to assess it loose. A new stock setting is refundable. Custom work is not There are pros and cons.
Regarding 2~3 week processing time, I think it is reasonable for custom work. Plus, JA's production should be streamlined to deal with high volume using stock settings. Custom work is not their strength and they don't promote it, although they accomodate.
Lastly, regarding JA not holding your original stone while you assess the new completed ring, I will have to agree with JA. Holding a stone in inventory is a huge liability. This is true for a big enterprise like JA who has millions of customers potentially requesting an upgrade anytime. Every single second is a missed opportunity. I cannot imagine a company has to hold
 
Scooba116 said:
The new stone is an SI1. Unfortunately, I can't find another stone with a higher clarity and decent cut in the right color range with the same spread without going WAY above the price of this stone.
Sometimes you have to wait until the right stone becomes available.

I cannot for the life of me see the inclusion in the spring setting. I guess I will look into having it set locally so it won't take 2-3 weeks. It's too bad it will take JA that long.

How do these policies with the virtual stones work? If I send it back, does it actually have to go back overseas before it gets put back up on the website?
No, it does not have to go back overseas before it becomes available. Ok, I'm taking a guess here but what makes sense is that as soon
as you say "No" to it, JA tells the owner and it becomes available again on-line. The info is stored in a big database. The database would
say that the stone is available. The stone can be somewhere between JA and the owner when someone else can put in a request for it. In that case it would get shipped right back out.

And I have read on here that JA offers ASETs before purchase? Not if the stone is overseas? There was nothing on their website indicating that this was a virtual, overseas stone. It was listed and displayed and pictured and filmed just like all the others.
When a person calls and request an ASET they will tell you if they can provide it or not (depending on the location of the stone). Since
you bought the stone they could have provided you with an ASET when it came in to JA. Did you ask for one? You can probably still
get one if you decide to keep the stone (when you send it back to have it set).
Click to expand...

Do you have a jeweler near by that can get a cheap (like less than $200 setting) quickly that you could have it set in temporary? That way you could see
if the inclusion disappears. Its an added cost so not sure if its worth it to you...later (before the 30 days is up)you could send it back to JA and have your
setting rebuilt. Just trying to come up with some options for you.

Edit...anyone...feel free to clarify the above.
 
I guess I could have had JA set the new stone in a new setting, but it seems incredibly wasteful and rude to make them do that work when I have no intention of keeping the new setting. I feel like they would not be pleased when I sent the new ring and old ring back and then asked them to unset the new diamond from the new setting and set it in the old setting. That can't possibly be what they wanted me to do, can it?

Also, is this considered "custom work"? My setting is their stock setting with a basic basket head. Wouldn't they have heads to fit all of their diamonds? Is it really that big of a project to put a new head on? I looked at a diamond a couple of weeks ago when I was out of town and that jeweler told me it could be done in a day. I would have him reset the new diamond if he were closer. There aren't many jewelers where I live but I guess tomorrow I will go running around on my lunch hour to see if someone has a similar setting and can set it.
 
I just looked at all the websites of local jewelers and I don't think I am going to be able to find a tapered baguette setting around here. I think I just need to set the diamond in a setting to look at it, not actually have it set. Does anyone know where I can order an empty tapered baguette setting? JA will not just send me the setting.
 
Why does it have to be a baguette setting? Why cant it be any setting? What are your plans for the setting after you have viewed the stone sitting in it?
Send it back? I really think this is a bit extreme. I dont think jewelry/finding providers keep pre-set emerald cut settings just sitting around.
They have to build it with the right size head/shank/baguettes so it will take some time. I dont know if jewelers would accept returns on this
kind of item either which would be another issue if you plan on returning it (be sure to ask if thats your plan...I personally couldnt do this to
a jeweler but thats your call - not judging. I just dont think you should turn your problem into someone elses problem). I think you may be
over simplifying the effort to get a baguette setting just for you "to see" your stone sitting in it.

In my opinion...you are sort of down to two options
- decide that the inclusion is so minor and the sparkle/light return/size/cost/beauty of the stone outshines any minor blemish. Really, some PSers look at
inclusions as birthmarks and its all part of what makes up their stone

- decide that you CANT take the chance of the inclusion not going away when set. You know exactly where its at and how to find it. Your eyes
might search for it each time you look at your stone. If you can see it now you wont be able to un-see it. Return the stone and wait until
an eye-clean one comes in that fits your needs (that you only need to see unset once to decide its your stone..no question its the right stone
for you)

What if I told you that JA went belly up and you HAVE to keep that stone...how does that make you feel? Nervous, excited, mad???

What if I tole you someone else wants that stone and you CANT have it? How does that make you feel? Sad, mad, its ok because I wasnt
sure about it any way???

Whats your budget? Size/color specs...can we do another quick look at JA to see if there is any other stone that might work for you? I wonder if
JA can get stones that are listed with other vendors but not in their listing? If thats the case we could look at other vendors...not sure what is
possible. Just thinking out loud.
 
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IMHO if you have seen the inclusion and it bothered you I am sure you will find it again in the setting at some point and from then on not be able to "unsee" it. In this case I would definitely return the diamond and look for another one. Or maybe I have missed something and you are unable to do this?
 
Tyty,

I think I might have been misunderstood a little. I agree that I should not make my problem someone else's problem which is essentially why I didn't waste JA's time by having then set the new stone in the first place in a setting I was not going to keep. I was surprised that was suggested as the route I probably should have taken here. But it seems like I have hotten myself in a bad position by not taking advantage of the fact that they would have set it for free and then allowed me to return the setting.

I do think you are right about it not having to be a baguette setting, that just never occurred to me.

When I was out of town a couple weeks ago that jeweler did have a baguette setting he set a loose diamond I was looking at in so I could get an idea of how it would look in my setting. Clarity was not the issue with that stone.

Anyway, I really appreciate your offer to help me look at JA for an alternative. My upgrade has to be at least $7600 and the stone I picked was $9100. I don't want to go much higher than that because it will just force me to increase the budget for my next upgrade. My stone now is an F. When shopping for that stone I looked at an H and couldn't live with the color but now I'm not sure an I would be a deal breaker. Since I have to be "sure" though of course a higher color would be better. Obviously I want the stone eye clean and I would not want to see black inclusions from any angle at any distance (this bothered me in a former stone). I'm really looking for great spread, the stone I picked is approximately 49 square mms face up. My preferred l:w ratio is around 1.4. It can be hard for me to tell from the JA videos if a stone is well cut. I can rule out some clearly but it's hard for me to spot a really great one, so I would really appreciate any suggestions.
 
With respect to a cheap setting...when I suggested it at a near by jeweler it was for you to keep the setting (thats why I was saying cheap setting). To
me, it might have been worth the small investment to find out if a setting would make it eye-clean or not. Not sure what anyone else meant by having
JA set it and return it. I said a close by jeweler because I think if you send it back to JA and have it put in a cheap setting ($180 and you keep the setting)
that it is still going to take too long. They have other clients and when your piece comes in it goes in the line of work to get done. I would think it would
be faster than having your prongs reset but not really sure. Depends on how busy they are I suspect. But, anyway, you waste valuable time sending
it back and forth. How much time do you have left?

So I looked at JA and some other vendors in case JA might be able to bring those stones in and it definitely looks like you have found that one needle in the
haystack. I cant find anything close in size for the price. Looks like you would have to drop color to up clarity and size would still be a bit smaller.

Here are the ones at JA that I though may have decent light return...

This is the biggest one, an H and I'm not sure if I like whats going on in between the windmills as it turns.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.54-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3052193

A few of the nicer ones I found but smaller and Hs.
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.52-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3091809
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.54-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3134150
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.62-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-2623524
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.50-carat-h-color-si1-clarity-sku-3219622 has tiny inclusion and may have a step not lighting up

Ok, so this is what I would do (since its easy and free and I'll try anything because it wont hurt)...people that are looking to bezel their stones
and want to see how they react do this. Get a small piece of tin foil and do your best to wrap it around the sides of the stone. You may be able
to set it on your stone (while stone is upside down) and then use your stone holder to pick it up with the tin foil around it. Try not to totally enclose
your stone in tin foil. This isnt a very good test (may be totally worthless) but see if it gives you any indication of what happens with the inclusion.
Dont put a lot of faith into this but it may be one more little piece of info to add to what you currently know.

Otherwise...you're left with returning the stone and waiting until some more emerald cuts come in. :(
 
Thank you tyty.

tyty333 said:
I cant find anything close in size for the price.
Click to expand...

I am having the same problem. Unless I go all the way down to an I, I can't find anything. And I think an I would also require me to see it set before I know how I feel about it especially because it will be a lower color than my sidestones.

The first one you listed with the good symmetry looks really asymmetrical to me. The end on the right is way longer than the end on the left, I don't think I could live with that.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.54-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-3134150 - this one has a large table that I don't think I would like.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.62-carat-h-color-vvs1-clarity-sku-2623524 - this one is nice and big but I'm concerned about the table and depth not fitting into pricescope's recommendations. And idoes it look like it has a bowtie?

This SI1 is not too much smaller, but I'm scared to go into SI1 teritory if I have to be "sure."

What about these?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.57-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3196672 - depth less than table a problem?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.40-carat-f-color-vs2-clarity-sku-2627323 - too dark in the middle?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.60-carat-e-color-si2-clarity-sku-2600395 - symmetry too bad?

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.80-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3135405
 
I was able to pry a round cz I had out of a 6 prong setting and set the new diamond in it and I could not see the inclusion, just another reason I'd rather not give up the stone
 
Really like these...
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.57-carat-i-color-vvs2-clarity-sku-3196672
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.80-carat-i-color-vs1-clarity-sku-3135405 not sure if its flashing right in the center but the flashing
does look to go pretty deep. At 1.8 you would think it would be bigger mm wise!

The 1.4 has a couple of facets in a row that go off at the same time that make it look like 1 big facet is off...dont really like that.
I'm just not sure about the 1.6. It does not look very crisp down in the center but I wonder if its just the photography???

Too out of budget?
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/emerald-cut/1.70-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-sku-3124357

I'm going to post a few threads of people who have lower colored emeralds. Its really up to you what you can handle but when I see these stones, I just
think gorgeous!
K color...love this stone and setting
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...sary-upgrade-2-52-emerald-cut-diamond.187820/
Js
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...r-j-color-emerald-cut-diamonds-please.231811/

You can also see more I/J/K emeralds here
https://www.jamesallen.com/diamond-rings/emerald-cut-engagement-rings/?MinPrice=100&MaxPrice=999999
 
Scooba116 said:
I was able to pry a round cz I had out of a 6 prong setting and set the new diamond in it and I could not see the inclusion, just another reason I'd rather not give up the stone
Click to expand...

Can you live with it if you can see it in some conditions and not see it in others?
 
Visual difference between the D and the 1.57 I which faces up fairly large.

emerald difference.PNG
 
Thanks again, tyty. Should I be concerned that the 1.57 had a larger table than depth percentage? Maybe it doesn't matter because the more I think about it I just don't think I can commit to an I without seeing it in my ring next to my higher colored sidestones.

JA has told me that their policy is that the old diamond has to be sent in before viewing a potential upgrade diamond and that I am one of the "1% of 1% of 1% of people" who want to see a diamond before committing to upgrading to it, I find that hard to believe. Since my next upgrade will be around the 20k mark, I will absolutely want to see the stone before I commit. Right now I am thinking I should just cut ties with JA and take whatever I can get for trade-in elsewhere on my current stone, so disappointing.
 
Are there any other vendors who might honor a trade-in for purchase price with other vendor as long as I spend twice as much on the upgrade? It seems like it would be a good way to get customers like me who will upgrade again in the future.
 
I think you would have to approach each vendor and ask them if they are willing to take a trade in if you spend double. They cant count on you ever
trading in again...from their point of view it may never happen so I dont think you can leverage that.

You might try calling ID Jewelry and speaking with Yekutiel (only) or maybe send an email. Tell him you are from Pricescope and explain the problem.
Prepare yourself to get a "Sorry, we cant do that", but if you dont ask you'll never know. He may not be able to work the same deal as JA but maybe
something???

Can you just wait and check JA everyday for new stones? I know that's not easy but it may be your best option.
 
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