J/VS2/12'$ - Help me pick the one!

[Belic]

Hi!

I've been reading here pretty much everyday and created a thread or two. Now I really need to get this purchase for engagement ring done and I need your help!

I will have a friend in US last week of september that will receive the rind. So my deadline is quite short. I will go for a classic solitaire/tiffany style setting in platinum.

Budget Diamond: 12 000$
Colour: J
Clarity: VS2 (can go down to Si1 but it definetly needs to be super duper eye-clean)
Cut: Ideal. Above the common GIA XXX. I want it to be better then average but not necessary the best. For reference, almost Premium/Expert cut in terms of Whiteflash.
Carat: As large as possible

I found a few alternatives,
1. CBI - J/VS2 - 1.60 = 11 737$
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10087

2. WF - J/VS2 - 1.72 = 12 378$
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018634.htm

3. WF Virtual - J/VS2 - 1.7 = 9 633$
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006592.htm

What bugs me a bit is that in May I found a couple of 2ct stones for around 12 000$ with AGS Ideal 000 and good ASET/IDEAL, but they seem to be all gone. Option 3 would be lovely(budget wise) depending on what you think of it's perfomance.

I prefer to stick with either Whiteflash or CBI beacuse I feel comfortable with their service as well as settings, but if you have another reputable vendor I'm all ears

 

[BlingDreams]

Hi!

I've been reading here pretty much everyday and created a thread or two. Now I really need to get this purchase for engagement ring done and I need your help!

I will have a friend in US last week of september that will receive the rind. So my deadline is quite short. I will go for a classic solitaire/tiffany style setting in platinum.

Budget Diamond: 12 000$
Colour: J
Clarity: VS2 (can go down to Si1 but it definetly needs to be super duper eye-clean)
Cut: Above the common Ideal - "Super Ideal". I want it to be better then average but not necessary the best. For reference, almost Premium/Expert cut in terms of Whiteflash.
Carat: As large as possible

I found a few alternatives,
1. CBI - J/VS2 - 1.60 = 11 737$
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10087

2. WF - J/VS2 - 1.72 = 12 378$
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018634.htm

3. WF Virtual - J/VS2 - 1.7 = 9 633$
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006592.htm

What bugs me a bit is that in May I found a couple of 2ct stones for around 12 000$ with AGS Ideal 000 and good ASET/IDEAL, but they seem to be all gone. Option 3 would be lovely(budget wise) depending on what you think of it's perfomance.

I prefer to stick with either Whiteflash or CBI beacuse I feel comfortable with their service as well as settings, but if you have another reputable vendor I'm all ears

Numbers one and two are great. Number three is not. Did you see the light performance photo on the AGS cert? Not clean at all. Makes sense given some of the measurements.

Hang on and I’m sure some suggestions will float your way.

 

[sledge]

LOL super duper eye clean?

Throw a triple dog dare down and I will help. I mean who could refuse.

 

[Belic]

LOL super duper eye clean?

Throw a triple dog dare down and I will help. I mean who could refuse.

Sometimes people recommends Si1 diamond with a big inclusion in the middle of the table and says it's eye-clean if you are 10" away with bad vision. To me it makes no sense, I mean the wearer of the stone will of course inspect it!

 

[sledge]

Sometimes people recommends Si1 diamond with a big inclusion in the middle of the table and says it's eye-clean if you are 10" away with bad vision. To me it makes no sense, I mean the wearer of the stone will of course inspect it!

I was just teasing. I found humor in the "super duper" part.

FYI, both HPD & WF have the same definition of eye clean as evidenced below.

Just a heads up, while VS clarity normally ensures an eye clean stone by this definition it does not always guarantee it. You still need to check the inclusion plots to ensure there will be no visible inclusions, structural issues or potential inclusions that interfere with light refraction.

No inclusions visible to the naked eye of a person with 20/20 vision when viewing the diamond in the face-up position at a distance of approximately 10 inches under normal overhead lighting.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/whyus/whyus-faqdetail/60
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/faq/what-is-your-definition-of.htm

I might add that as humans, we all have variable eye sight. If you or the SO happen to have keen vision, or if one or both of you suffer from "mind clean" issues, then you may want to tighten the definition of "eye clean". Both HPD and WF would be happy to work with you on this adjustment, just let them know so you are comparing apples to apples.

I'm picky and suffer from mind clean issues. For me, this definition would pass as "super duper" but perhaps you have more stringent requirements. Only you can decide that.

No inclusions visible to the naked eye of a person with 20/20 vision when viewing the diamond in the face-up and side positions at a distance of no less than 6 inches under normal overhead lighting.

 

[Belic]

Well I'm not worrying about the eye-clean aspect on the stones i proposed But if someone wants to chime in on a Si1 it really needs to be a really good one. Since I won't see it before purchase, VS2 seems to be me best bet.

 

[sledge]

1. CBI - J/VS2 - 1.60 = 11 737$
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10087

2. WF - J/VS2 - 1.72 = 12 378$
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4018634.htm

I like both of these.

Each has different strengths IMO. One strength of the WF is the size as it's about 0.20mm bigger diameter. Not massive, but enough you can see if compared side by side.

The WF site states the 1.72 is eye clean. Cert shows clouds were the grade setting inclusion, and that additional clouds are not shown. The video would not lead me to believe there are any issues, but this needs to be clarified as this type of grade setting inclusion with the cloud notes can be an issue on some stones. I'm probably being overly critical here, but I'd still verify.

I also prefer the smaller table and CA/PA combo of the WF stone. Although CBI stones have proprietary cut techniques where they analyze each stone and modify the facets to get the same light return on each stone regardless of each stone's personality. If you search, you will where people have compared CBI to ACA's. Many like them but it seems to be a preference thing.

To recap, I think both are solid choices and would be happy with either myself.

3. WF Virtual - J/VS2 - 1.7 = 9 633$
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4006592.htm

I'm not a fan. Although, if you are truly looking for good cut (AGS0) but NOT a truly perfect super ideal, then maybe you will like better. You can see some issues on the computer generated ASET that is included on the cert. Also, I don't like the clarity plot at all. Lots of junk on the table. Grade setting inclusion is clouds with note about additional clouds not shown. Indented naturals, etc.

What bugs me a bit is that in May I found a couple of 2ct stones for around 12 000$ with AGS Ideal 000 and good ASET/IDEAL, but they seem to be all gone. Option 3 would be lovely(budget wise) depending on what you think of it's perfomance.

I prefer to stick with either Whiteflash or CBI beacuse I feel comfortable with their service as well as settings, but if you have another reputable vendor I'm all ears

What you are experiencing is normal. Stones move fast, so if you find one you like then I'd encourage you to call and place the stone on hold while you make a final decision. Also, many people can view this forum and poach your good deal.

You may want to add BGD to the mix. They are another super ideal vendor with great reputation, customer service and good upgrade policy -- not quite as generous as WF & HPD. With BGD you get full credit for $1 more PLUS upgrading TWO of these criteria: color, clarity or carat.

 

[coda72]

I would add this BG blue to your list. It’s lower carat wise than you want, but it’s lower than your max budget too.
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.532-j-si1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104100827002

 

[appl3]

I would try rare carat to help source stoned. I got mine 1.67 for $9.3k J vs1. Believe it was from yadav but my lower dealer sourced it for me.

 

[sledge]

FYI, I looked on Rare Carat, JA and also the PS search engine and couldn't find anything of considerable size or price difference that I liked better than the stones already listed. Maybe a few hundred bucks savings but angles were out of whack.

Personally I'd decided between that HPD and WF stone and pull the trigger. Hopefully you have contacted both Wink and Bryan and have those stones on-hold.

 

[Belic]

FYI, I looked on Rare Carat, JA and also the PS search engine and couldn't find anything of considerable size or price difference that I liked better than the stones already listed. Maybe a few hundred bucks savings but angles were out of whack.

Personally I'd decided between that HPD and WF stone and pull the trigger. Hopefully you have contacted both Wink and Bryan and have those stones on-hold.

I seem to go to the same conclusion. Nothing even to consider outside WF/CBI if I would like to go down just a little bit in cut to save a couple of hundred bucks.

 

[igs]

Hi Belic. Did a little research for you on the Rap network and there are diamonds out there over 2cts. that are GIA Triple EX's. For example, there's a 2.01ct J VS2 gia triple ex 56T 61.5D Faint HCA 0.8 less than12.5k. diameter 8.10 X 8.13 GIA 1182571066
Another example: there's a 2.0ct. J VS2 GIA triple ex MB 58T 61.5D 8.04 - 8.08 HCA 1.7 and less than 12.5k Just wanted to say that for your budget you can certainly go 2cts. or higher and you can go GIA triple ex with ideal proportions and hca from .8 to 1.7. Just thought I'd let you know.

 

[sledge]

Hi Belic. Did a little research for you on the Rap network and there are diamonds out there over 2cts. that are GIA Triple EX's. For example, there's a 2.01ct J VS2 gia triple ex 56T 61.5D Faint HCA 0.8 less than12.5k. diameter 8.10 X 8.13 GIA 1182571066
Another example: there's a 2.0ct. J VS2 GIA triple ex MB 58T 61.5D 8.04 - 8.08 HCA 1.7 and less than 12.5k Just wanted to say that for your budget you can certainly go 2cts. or higher and you can go GIA triple ex with ideal proportions and hca from .8 to 1.7. Just thought I'd let you know.

What is the Rap network and how do I access? Cert number for 2nd example? HCA 1.7 seems promising.

GIA 1182571066 referenced above has 56 table, 61.5 depth, 32.5 crown and 41 pavilion.

I'm mobile but can see on AGS proportions chart this hits the fringe of ideal, yet is not a complimentary angle combo we would normally recommend. Crown is very shallow. With HCA, a value between 1-2 is what you typically want for a ring.

Below is some ideal search criteria considered to be "PS quality":

Table 54-58
Depth 60-62.5
Crown 34-35 (maybe 35.5 with 40.6 pav)
Pavilion 40.6-40.9 (maybe 41 with 33.5 crown)
LGF 75-80 (75 gives fat arrows and 80 skinny arrows)

When I say I searched it was based on the above. I rejected stones not meeting that criteria.

 

[appl3]

Belic, are you only looking a j color or open to better colors?

 

[Belic]

Belic, are you only looking a j color or open to better colors?

I'm definitely open to better colours, but I rather go for bigger size

 

[igs]

Hi Belic. Rap is 'the diamond information highway' for diamond dealers. You would have to contact a diamond dealer to access more information about any particular diamond. Thanks Belic.

 

[BlingDreams]

Hi Belic. Did a little research for you on the Rap network and there are diamonds out there over 2cts. that are GIA Triple EX's. For example, there's a 2.01ct J VS2 gia triple ex 56T 61.5D Faint HCA 0.8 less than12.5k. diameter 8.10 X 8.13 GIA 1182571066
Another example: there's a 2.0ct. J VS2 GIA triple ex MB 58T 61.5D 8.04 - 8.08 HCA 1.7 and less than 12.5k Just wanted to say that for your budget you can certainly go 2cts. or higher and you can go GIA triple ex with ideal proportions and hca from .8 to 1.7. Just thought I'd let you know.

Very kind of you to do all of that research for him

 

[igs]

Thanks ILike Shiny. Just want the consumer to get the absolute best value biggest size diamond they can without sacrificing cut quality. Love the hca…..really helps consumers to pick the best diamond.

 

[ccuheartnurse]

I just wanted to add, that since your budget may not get you a VS-2 in the 2ct range, you would be in safe hands with either HPD or WF or BGD that either of those vendors would be up front & honest about their SI-1's being eye clean or not. It also depends what the inclusion is & where it is located. I would expand my search with them to include SI-1. I have a WF 2.23 J SI-1 & its absolutely eye clean & I have 4 eyes to inspect it.