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It''s fixed..sort of...

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I don’t know if this will make sense to everyone, my train of thought is a wee bit scattered at times. It seems to me however that Leon is not satisfied with the quality of this ring, he knows that there is something substandard about it and thus sent her an e-mail with photos. Why would he do that and mention the issues if he did not feel there were any? I do understand that whomever is making the ring must be paid for their time. However it should not be ally who pays, sometimes you just have to suck it up and contribute it to the cost of doing business and having a pleased customer. JMO.
 
Hey everyone,

Well glad to know everyone's opinons. Basically this is what Leon had said to us, that, NO the ring is not in the same condition as it was. He said that to the naked eye, it is perceptible, but according to him, something that I should be able to live with. Now that being said, my boyfriend did briefly discuss remaking it, and he said $4500 however, this was said FAST, at the end of the day as Leon was leaving the office. And I think that he forgot to factor in the fact that we already paid for the diamonds. So maybe $3500. He also said he didn't reccommend it because we had already paid so much for it. Of the $3500, my boyfriend was hoping (at a later date) to renegotitate it, so we would split half the cost.

I don't mind paying because I did asked for it to be sized. I said to him, "Is it going to be a problem?" And he said, "Not at all"

Now when we sent it back to him, he told my boyfriend that he had assumed, we were aware of the possible consequences of sizing. So miscommunication. And I made a decision without throughly investigating the consequence, so I can't blame him for my ignorance.

NOW that being said, the reason that the metal is no longer straight is because he had to straighten out 2 big dents in the section that Rascal circled. So would it be perceptible if he had done the sizing himself? Or if the person that had done the sizing hadn't put dents in it? Maybe not. Which is why we feel that the cost should be split if I decide to go that route.

Also, I'm not looking to say, '"oh it's not perfect" I want to know if anyone can see it. Obviously, the ring was not 100% perfect in the first place. However, the first time the ring was sent to me, and then the seconds was HUNDREDS of miles apart. What isn't easily seen in the pics, and that I am ultra concerned, is that when I got the ring, the miligrain edge was quite far from the diamonds in the band. To the point that the band on one side was larger then on the left side. Now Leon told us last night that he would look at the ring this morning, to see if there was any thing he could do to make it better.

I don't feel like he's wronged us or anything, I think I made a bad decision, and I think he made a bad decision. We're not thrilled about the prospect of paying but we'll do if it's necessary. It's the shipping fees are REALLY starting to bite us. And so is the travel back and forth to the US. Thanks for the support everyone.

ETA: I just had time to read all the responses. Leon did not size it for me as a courtesy. When the stone was missing from the halo, we had to ship it back to him (cost about 80$ US). He said that since it was his oversight, he would send us a check for the shipping. And I said, "well instead of sending us a check, would you be willing to size it for me?" And he said yes. ALSO WANT to note that he took it down by 1/8 th of a size. Which many of you know, is miniscule. Had he informed me that there was any chance that my ring would be ruined, I would NEVER have done it. But beyond that, he did freely admit, that the jeweler that did the sizing job, blotched it BIG TIME, adding major dents to the miligrain. This isn't simply, sizing gone wrong. It's sizing in the hands of someone that added dents to it. So the moral of the story is, don't ever have your ring sized. EVER. Bad idea.

Now the impass is, do I have him send it to me, or just remake it. If he sends it to me (and I decide to have it remade) we are both out $200 shipping. Between the shipping back and forth we've accumulated $400 of shipping, so both Leon and us want to stop. Thanks everyone, for your opinons.
 
Ally -- Thanks for the clarificiaton. Given what you have just told us, I disagree that Leon hasn''t wronged you. I think he has if he expects you to pay for his mistake. How did he come to the conclusion that you "should be able to live with" the damage? This should be YOUR decision! Unless he made it very clear from the get-go that sizing the ring could result in damage, then I don''t see how any of this is your fault. It sounds to me like the damage resulted from someone who either didn''t know what they were doing or just didn''t do a very good job. I find all of this unacceptable. I''m so sorry you''re going through this. It sounds like you''ve decided that you would like to have the ring remade, right? I really hope you don''t have to shell out another dime!!
 
Ok..this is a tough one.

The ring arrived, was ''perfect'' for Ally...she was happy. But it didn''t fit right. Whose fault was that? Was it that the ring was missized when made or Ally you gave Leon the wrong size? Key part of info.

If the ring did not fit right because Leon was given a size 5 but it was too loose when she got it and wanted a 4.5...and he resized it for free? Good job there. But then it was all mangled with missing milgrain etc. Okay so then he fixes it. For free. Good job. But then it''s got this funny wavy milgrain that he can see but isn''t sure he can fix without re-making the ring so he sends Ally pictures asking if she can see it too. I still am not clear if she CAN see it in the pictures or is just asking us if we can see it. I can''t see anything at all but I have a hard time picking metal apart from stones etc.

So now he is saying well this milgrain is not ''perfect'' but it''s barely visible so you should be fine with it. Or if you arent, I can remake the ring but it will cost.

Well see...if the ring was ''perfect'' when you got it and just had to be sized..and nothing in WRITING was given or signed re: ''assumptions'' on what could happen with it, and it was mangled the way it was and now it less than ''perfect'' aka how it was when you first had it. NO WAY should you have to pay !!!!! and CERTAINLY not $4500...oh my god. NOT EVEN $3500. I can''t even believe that this ring cost that much but that''s another horrified story...ha ha.

Seriously Ally if you had a ring you were happy with before but for sizing, then it should be returned to you in that same manner. That''s the bottom line. If Leon is saying well this is a problem but I can''t fix it as is, he should make it for free for you because he should return that ring to you how it looked in the first place!

I totally agree that how vendors handle problems speaks volumes. There are vendors on here who remake things for free if something goes wrong and they can''t fix it. The positive press pays for everything twice over on it. Just like negative press sticks around for everyone to see.

I adore Leon''s work but this is not the first time we have seen something negative about the style of working with Leon, whether it''s the prima-donna artist attitude or my way or the highway kind of thing...I don''t know if I would ever be able to work with him without strangling him.
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My concern is that if Leon himself made this ring, there is no acceptable explanation for why HE didn''t do the sizing HIMSELF and HE didn''t fix the screwups HIMSELF in an acceptable manner. If he pawns this off on someone in his shop, then he needs to deal with this person and do the fixes himself to make it right and NOT charge her to fix somethign that should have been done right in the first place.

I realize custom is not machine perfect, though I expect it to be and wont change that expectation especially if I am paying MORE for custom to be made to my specifications, but when something comes to you in worse condition than it was in the first place, and you are expected to pay for it to be made right....no way jose. Not acceptable and no acceptable explanation for that. They paid an astronomical price for this ring to be right and correctly sized and returned in the condition they paid for it to be made in.

He needs to take responsibility for his or his staff''s actions.
 
Date: 10/20/2005 12:07:05 PM
Author: Mara

I totally agree that how vendors handle problems speaks volumes. There are vendors on here who remake things for free if something goes wrong and they can''t fix it. The positive press pays for everything twice over on it. Just like negative press sticks around for everyone to see.
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Yes, I suspect him not fixing it for free is going to cost him quite a bit more than $4500!! I wonder if he frequents this site....
 
For the sizing, I originally asked for a 4.25 full. He said that he would make a 4.5, and if it was too big, I could send it to him for sizing. I said ok, I figured he wouldn't propose sizing, if he knew it could be a problem. So it's too big, but I was willing to live with it, cause I was really attached.

But then I notice a stone missing, so I send it back. Instead of a shipping refund, I ask for a 1/8 size smaller.

The ring gets sized by a mad man, and comes back looking with multiple dents and miligrain. It's crap.

So I send it back because there was no way it was acceptable.

So Leon agrees it's crap, and fixes it to the best of his ability and says it's "satisfactory now" that's his opinon. He made a mistake and fixed it, but he can't make it what it was before without REALLY putting himself out. So he would have to charge me, because it originally took something like 2.5 months. Plus he's totally overbooked, and has TOO much work on his plate right now.

Honestly, in a perfect world, I wouldn't have to pay, but I see it from his point of view.

Now Leon says it's visable to the naked eye. Of course I saw my ring before, so I know there's a big drop from "perfect" to "satisfactory" Basically the question is "Can I live with Satisfactory when my ring was Perfect before?"

Can I see it on the pics? Yes. Absolutely. Can my boyfriend? Absolutely. But we know where to look. Actually I was really hoping NO ONE would be able to see it, and tell me I was hallucinating
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We're also concerned because it's hard to see from the pics, but it seems that the major issue with the headon pic, the miligrain still is still off. And since many of you were able to spot it and circle it, then we know we aren't imaginging things that aren't really there. We would like to save both parties another $200 in shipping cause, well it stinks to keep paying for nothing
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Thanks everyone. I'm honestly grateful for all opinons. I just wish someone would tell me "Ally do this" It's the best solution.
 
Ally, I can say with surety DO NOT PAY $3500 FOR THEM TO REMAKE THAT RING! OR $4500! .

Seriously that is ridiculous. If you HAVE to pay anything it should be something like $500 MAYBE. But honestly, he took a ring that was great and turned it into crap and then fixed it so it''s not crap but it''s not great anymore either. So how should you guys forking over $3k or $4k and 2 more months of your time be the way to go? I''m at a loss here.
 
I agree with Mara. He messed it up so he should pay to fix it. I don''t get his thinking on this???
 
I wouldn''t pay him anything either. I''d have him remake it in the right size at his cost or ask for a refund. I too understand custom is not perfect but still expect it to be ''perfect" in my book. Ally, you were happy with it when you first got it and Leon''s gang messed it up and want you to accept it. They need to make you happy again by fixing it or giving you you money back.
 
A little late to the thread but I have to agree with Mara. You should not be paying to fix his mistake. While I also agree with Alj that custom jobs can have little "flaws", including my own custom ring, Leon or his people created these flaws in your ring that were not there before. Do not pay $4500. That is just unreasonable and if you ask me, unprofessional. So sorry you have to go through all of this, Ally. You can add me to the list of New Yorkers who will gladly go over there and check it out for you...
 
Actually you ladies have got me all riled up now
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I''m sick with the flu so maybe this is why I''m being such a wuss about it. My boyfriend is livid and is adament that we don''t pay a penny.

Basically his reasoning is this: Yes he messed up. But it''s fixed to a level that in his opinon is "satisfactory". Therefore, it should be satisfactory to me. I have every right to have a different opinon, but since he feels that it''s good enough (albeit visable). If I want to be difficult and have it the way it was before, then I should pay if I want him to redo something that is already "acceptable" It''s basically a difference of opinon, but compunded by the fact that I already SAW my ring before. And know there is a difference. And since he says it''s visable I think I''m deluding myself that I won''t see it... I mean that is what visable means right?

I''m still juggling it in my mind. Thanks ladies, for your help.
 
It's not your problem that he has overbooked himself and has too much work to do and doesn't have enough time to redo your ring. That is all HIS problem. You had asked him to size your ring at 4.25, and he's the one who suggested to go up a quarter just in case. He also said that he can resize it if needed, implying that it wasn't a major issue to do so. Then, HIS workers go and completely mess up your ring, and to save his ass he fixes it to the best of his abilities, working with what he has, without having to do it all over (since he knows that would cost him both time and money). Unfortunately, he wasn't able to do that. But you DON'T have to accept that! he should return the ring the way he received it! This is all his fault since you wouldn't need to be resizing in the first place if he hadn't suggested making it a little bigger, and a stone was missing b/c of his work.

The fact that he is overbooked is his problem to deal with, not yours. You don't need to accept his attempts at fixing a ring that is unfixable w/o redoing it. And you certainly do not have to pay for his own error! It's his responsibility to watch his workers, and if they mess up, that becomes his responsibilty, not his clients'. YOu paid good money ALREADY for him to make you a ring, and he messed up. You don't need to pay him any more just b/c he might be "inconvienced" with something his workers and he did!

Ally, of course he's going to say that it's "satisfactory." he doesn't want to have to redo it! What's he supposed to say, it looks bad? of course not. He's trying to convince you to accept his ammends. He doesn't want to have to deal with investing more money and time in redoing the ring. You don't have to accept that. I'd make him redo it, with HIM bearing all the cost since this is his fault!

Good luck!
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Hand crafted and perfect do not go together, however, the ring should have been returned in the condition it was in when the vendor received it for resizing. Not perfect, but restored to its orginal condition.
 
From my understanding, you did ask for the ring to be sized 4.25+ and he decided to size it to a 4.5, so either way, he should not have charged you for resizing because he was the one who decided to make it bigger to begin with, not you!
All you were doing was asking him to make the ring the size you wanted in the first place. If he had done that, you wouldn''t be in this predicament!

This is my experience. When I purchased my ring, he told me that if I ever needed the ring resized, polished or have the prongs checked, to just give him a call and come by his office. He told me he would do it for free.

When I sold my ring to someone else, I contacted him for that person and he said he would do the resizing for free and the polishing, but to set her stone (which was a CZ), he would charge $100.
I thought that he resized your ring for free, I didn''t know you traded the shipping costs for the resizing.

Anyway, I agree with everyone here who says that you should not have to pay for the work. He screwed up, or someone in his office did.

I would not even agree to the 50/50 split that you propose. That''s $2250 or $1750, and you are not even sure if he will agree to that or what price he will charge you. And for all you know, what if he says he redid the ring, but all he actually did was fix it better? You will be out of money and still have the same ring.

Dont'' be a wuss!!!!
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Oh my god, I'm so happy. Leon was originally going to ship my ring last night, but my boyfriend said we were not satisfied. And we needed time to think about where we were going to go with this.

In any case, he promised to look at it this morning and see if anything else could be done. In any case, he just sent me these pics, I'm thrilled. He said he tweaked it a bit more, and I think it looks so much better. Tell me what you girls think.

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New, don''t be shy to blast it, but I magnified the pics a million times, and for the life of me can''t find it anymore.

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I am not sure about the entire history of this ring and the stones in it, but the bottom line is that it sounds like you are at a point where:

1) You will always have bitter/unhappy/regretful feelings about this ring;
2) Having it re-done is fraught with the possibility that no matter who pays for the work, it will still not be "the same" -- even if it is "the same" in fact, it may not be "the same" in your mind because of its history.

Did you buy the diamonds from him and have a custom setting designed? Or did you send the diamonds to him for setting?

Why don''t you wash your hands of this ring -- since he damaged it, ask him for a refund and to return your diamonds (or if you bought the diamond from him, just ask for a refund on the whole deal.

Then start over with a new vendor, a new ring, new setting that does not have this unhappy history.

I am somewhat sympathetic, I have been on both sides of the fence. Once, I rescued a miserable baroque pearl necklace from an antique shop when I walked in and found the owner cleaning the pearls with WINDEX. I bought them on the spot, lovingly washed them, and wore them for years. Everyone in my office loved these pearls, which were in truly horrible condition from age and abuse. But for all their loss of nacre and luster, they had CHARACTER. At least five women in my office pestered their husbands into buying them pearl necklaces after I started wearing mine. Mine were the worst quality of the bunch, and the most precious. From that perspective, imperfect makes the ring no less beautiful or precious.

OTOH, once I bought an expensive Movado watch and obsessed for weeks because of a "scratch" that only I could see. I finally returned the watch and got another.
 
Date: 10/20/2005 2:37:11 PM
Author: allycat0303
New, don''t be shy to blast it, but I magnified the pics a million times, and for the life of me can''t find it anymore.
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I can''t see a thing wrong with this ring now. I think you are now thrilled, stop thinking about it, tell him to ship it, wear it, love it.
 
Ally, I honestly didn''t see anything wrong with it the first time so I''m a horrible judge of this situation but if you are happy now, that is all that matters. If you feel that it is now fixed and that you aren''t going to find anything wrong with it when you have it in your hands AND Leon has told you that it is much better now, then that is just wonderful news!! I hope you will finally be able to enjoy your beautiful ring.

And by the way, you keep saying boyfriend. He''s your FIANCE now, remember?!
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Ally,
It looks a lot better. I tried to find something wrong, but couldn''t. What do you think??
 
Date: 10/20/2005 2:37:11 PM
Author: allycat0303
New, don''t be shy to blast it, but I magnified the pics a million times, and for the life of me can''t find it anymore.
Click to expand...
Well if you trust that its in acceptable condition, accept it. I just hope that it IS as good as can get because you will be more annoyed when he ships it to you and you don''t like it in person.
 
Kaliegh, I think it''s good to go. I''m going to wait until my boy comes home from work and looks at it, he''ll give it the final go. But I magnified those two pics to 35 cm each and compared them side to side. And the difference is amazing. And I''m so happy. I''m giddy.

Actually Leon wrote the words "It''s the best that I can do, it looks like before" Which to me is totally reassuring. A) Cause his best is quite substantial b) Cause he said it looks like before...

Now why he couldn''t get it to that point last night is a bit confusing but I don''t care a whit at this moment.... and I totally love my boy cause he really pushed for a second look
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Thanks everyone, you all rule. If he ships it tonight, it should be arriving tomorrow. Thank you all so much. I''ll let you know how it goes, but I''m pretty confident it''ll be fine in person
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Ame. And consequently I should have listened to you about sizing... you did suggest I get sizing beads... Bad Ally
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Alley,
I''ve been following this thread all day, and I think it looks absolutely great. If you could forget all the heartache and complications and fall in love with the ring again now, I would keep it. I really do think it''s beautiful.
 
Ally, it looks great!! I can''t tell anything was ever wrong with it!!
 
It looks fabulous! I'm glad that this turned out to be a quick, easy, and cost-efficient fix. Perhaps LM had a bad day yestserday or wasn't feeling well. Sometimes all it takes is a day to rest your eyes.

Wear that beautiful stunning ring in love, happiness, and good health. And if you don't want it, I'll gladly take it off your hands!
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I really didn''t want to comment until I knew what the resolution of this was, so here goes. I think it looks fabulous! Of course, I could not see what was wrong in the other pics clearly anyway. (hence the reason I didn''t want to comment) I am glad this all worked out to your satisfaction. This is really good news.

shay
 
Hey everyone,

My boyfriend just looked at the pics and he thinks they are so much better. He's so relieved, because he spent the day furious at the thought he was going to have to pay to have it redone
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Rascal
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Since you were the very first to PM me with the problem, it's especially good to know that you think it looks great now.

It's arriving tomorrow at 3 o'clock, so I'll let you all know how it looks.

And thanks everyone for the compliments
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Good Luck! Now go and charge your battery this means we nead a whole new round of hand pics.
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Oh Ally I am sooo happy for you. I can''t wait til you get it tomorrow!!!
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