Israel EGL

[gdashoff21]

So I live in Raleigh and visited diamonds direct. They have their own mine and own cutters and the diamond I looked at is EGL certified in Israel. He told me they have a reputation to uphold so they "work" with their graders and they are accurate while another jeweler I talked to said an Israel EGL report wasn''t worth a grain of rice. So I like the diamond and it sparkles really nice I just don''t know whether to trust the report. So let me show you what I am looking at.

1.00 Cts SI1, F
Round Brilliant
6.43-6.39 x 3.91 mm
Total D - 61.0 %
Table Width 58 %
Crown Height 14 %
Pavilion Depth 43 %
Girdle Medium, Faceted

Polish Ex
Symm Ex
Cutlet None

Very Slight Graining
No Fluorescence

Comments
- "EXCELLENT IDEAL CUT" - The quality of the cut of this diamond achieves excellence in symmetry and proportions, thus obtaining the optimal dispersion of light and brilliance.
- 8 HEARTS AND 8 ARROWS

So he is selling me that for $4850. It looks like a nice stone and has some nice fire in it, I am just worried about the EGL certificate. So let me know what you all think, I know it is extra but this place also includes a solitare setting with it and will let me price upgrade anytime in the future.

Thanks for the help,
Geoff

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/18/2009 6:31:15 PM
Author:gdashoff21
So I live in Raleigh and visited diamonds direct. They have their own mine and own cutters and the diamond I looked at is EGL certified in Israel. He told me they have a reputation to uphold so they ''work'' with their graders and they are accurate while another jeweler I talked to said an Israel EGL report wasn''t worth a grain of rice. So I like the diamond and it sparkles really nice I just don''t know whether to trust the report. So let me show you what I am looking at.

1.00 Cts SI1, F
Round Brilliant
6.43-6.39 x 3.91 mm
Total D - 61.0 %
Table Width 58 %
Crown Height 14 %
Pavilion Depth 43 %
Girdle Medium, Faceted

Polish Ex
Symm Ex
Cutlet None

Very Slight Graining
No Fluorescence

Comments
- ''EXCELLENT IDEAL CUT'' - The quality of the cut of this diamond achieves excellence in symmetry and proportions, thus obtaining the optimal dispersion of light and brilliance.
- 8 HEARTS AND 8 ARROWS

So he is selling me that for $4850. It looks like a nice stone and has some nice fire in it, I am just worried about the EGL certificate. So let me know what you all think, I know it is extra but this place also includes a solitare setting with it and will let me price upgrade anytime in the future.

Thanks for the help,
Geoff

true...an GIA or AGS H&A stone graded F SI1 would cost you something like $6500.

 

[stone-cold11]

Numbers look promising but EGL Israel really has a bad rep, up to 2 grades off frequently, so best to get the stone independently appraised. Do they have a return policy?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Geoff- EGL Israel is well known for issuing extremely loose grading.
If it was consistent- like always two grades off, that would actually add a lot of value.
but it''s not.
I''ve seen EGL grade stones J that I saw as O-P color. Really yellow.
For a stone in the higher ranges- such as the one you''re considering, it makes no sense NOT to go with either GIA, or AGS.
IN the long run, a GIA graded H/SI2 will be a far better purchase than an EGL graded F/SI1. Even if they are the same price.

On another subject: They told you they own the diamond mine??
Wow.
I don''t believe that''s an accurate statement

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Date: 11/18/2009 6:49:24 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Geoff- EGL Israel is well known for issuing extremely loose grading.

If it was consistent- like always two grades off, that would actually add a lot of value.

but it''s not.

I''ve seen EGL grade stones J that I saw as O-P color. Really yellow.

For a stone in the higher ranges- such as the one you''re considering, it makes no sense NOT to go with either GIA, or AGS.

IN the long run, a GIA graded H/SI2 will be a far better purchase than an EGL graded F/SI1. Even if they are the same price.


On another subject: They told you they own the diamond mine??

Wow.

I don''t believe that''s an accurate statement

While EGL Israel can sometimes be loose, it''s not entirely accurate that it''s always two grades off. It''s important to note a lab grade is always an opinion of what they feel the stone grades at, and it is never a certificate. If you are with a competent stone dealer (and trustworthy) you can get a nice deal without paying the premium. See if they will let you get a second opinion on the stone. If you can, an EGL stone can be a very good bargain.

--Joshua

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Buy direct from the jewelry wholsealer does not work, neither does direct from the cutter - now you must buy direct from the miner

D''oh!

And EGL Israel F SI can = H I1

Run

(EGL sue me!)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

check this out

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 11/19/2009 4:06:11 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
Buy direct from the jewelry wholsealer does not work, neither does direct from the cutter - now you must buy direct from the miner

D'oh!

And EGL Israel F SI can = H I1

Run

(EGL sue me!)

ROFL!!!!!

An independant appraisal is essential for this diamond.

appraiser tool

 

[John P]

EGL Israel is definitely a gamble compared to top-tier labs. It's a good bet that the grading is softer - but by how much (?) You pay for F but are likely getting G? H? I? J?...roll the dice. If you've seen the SI1 and it is completely eye-clean in many lighting conditions that may not matter to you, even if it would be lower by first-tier standards.

EGL's "Excellent Ideal" cut grade doesn't mean much in terms of pedigree but the diamond's primary numbers are promising (p41.7c33.7). That is good news in terms of cut. We can't know minor facets, brillianteering, cut consistency etc from the report. The girdle works out to be stk, so it faces up microscopically smaller than other 1cts, but this is nothing your eye would notice offhand.

"8 hearts 8 arrows" could mean anything. If it is being sold as a H&A you should look-see for yourself. Take photos. Post them here. We love this stuff.

Diamond pricing is still largely established by size, color & clarity. If you can find a cherry-cut and don't mind the paper being soft on color & clarity it may suit you, but just be aware that this paper is worth less than top lab paper: The pricing is good relative to similar GIA/AGS graded diamonds, even a grade or so lower, but (again) we don't really know what is being compared.

Be sure to consider the array of short and long-term benefits offered by the seller. Those have value too.

 

[gdashoff21]

Thanks for all the responses. I am talking to the store to find out what their return policy is and have it appraised somewhere else and just return it if it is too far off. As far as owning the mine I may have been wrong, I think they get it directly from the mine and supposedly cut it themselves in Israel, right where they have EGL grade it which worries me. I''ll keep you all informed, thanks for the help.
Geoff

 

[vespergirl]

Hi there, I may be the only person on here who is going to say don''t immediately discount the stone.

My diamond is an EGL Israel, 2.01 ct, G SI1, ex/ex, 8 hearts & 8 arrows. I think it got a 1.8 on the HCA, if I remember correctly. Since I was OK with an H SI2 quality stone, I left myself a little wiggle room by going with an EGL G SI1.

I never did get it independently appraised, but I compared it with GIA & AGS stones when I purchased it through an Idealscope, and I was very happy with the diamond for the price. I think that it''s a bad bet to buy an EGL diamond unseen, but if you can inspect & compare it with an Idealscope and still love it, then you can get a great deal.

Here is a pic of my diamond, and I''ll also attach a couple of links so you can see my stone. I''ve gotten tons of compliments on it, even from people here on Pricescope, so just because it was sent to EGL for grading doesn''t mean the diamond itself is inferior.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/2-carat-h-a-with-8-pointer-shared-prong-eternity-new-pics.118713/

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/new-2-ct-rb-upgrade-old-setting-p.73980/

 

[vespergirl]

Here''s another pic:

 

[vespergirl]

Last one - here''s a pic from the side so you can see the G color. It''s taken in natural sunlight against a white background.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

I've noticed that EGL-Israel seems to be tightening up a bit on their grading these past few years.

For decades I never met an EGL-Israel stone that I agreed on the grading with. This past year however, I ran across two EGL-Israel stones that I agreed on the grading with.

I just about fell out of my chair.

Don't get excited though. It was just two. Still, both those clients got a hell of a deal.

 

[stone-cold11]

Richard, 2 out of roughly how many?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

10,000.

 

[sonnyjane]

Date: 11/19/2009 9:36:47 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Richard, 2 out of roughly how many?

Date: 11/19/2009 9:43:46 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
10,000.

LOL. "So you''re telling me there''s a chance!"

 

[oldminer]

Just joking, but Richard, is it possible you have a personal error rate of 2 in 10,000????

 

[Luckyeshe]

Date: 11/19/2009 10:39:36 AM
Author: vespergirl
Hi there, I may be the only person on here who is going to say don't immediately discount the stone.

I never did get it independently appraised, but I compared it with GIA & AGS stones when I purchased it through an Idealscope, and I was very happy with the diamond for the price. I think that it's a bad bet to buy an EGL diamond unseen, but if you can inspect & compare it with an Idealscope and still love it, then you can get a great deal.

+1 I agree with vespergirl. Granted it's the luck of the draw, but it is possible to get an awesome deal. Now with that in mind, my brother purchased an EGL 1 carat H VS2 RB and had it independently appraised before the stone was set. It was considered a Premium diamond on the cert. It was appraised as an I VS2. So it was pretty good. He got an awesome deal on the stone. I've attached the link for you to view it. The first picture is not a good photo since I took the pic and my room color is reflecting on the stone.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/background-on-luckyeshefsil.126164/

 

[oldminer]

Stones with EGL papers very often have "discounted" asking prices simply based on the perceived quality of the report and only partly based on the actual characterisitics of the diamond. While there are many that are off graded just as the market has discounted them to be, there are some which are way worse than what might be expected and a few which are far better. For those lucky shoppers who find the better needles in this large haystack we salute you. You are risk takers, plain lucky or super smart. Most people end up like those who take the bus to the Casinos in Atlantic City. They have money to spend for an entertaining day and when they are on the return bus that night they have less money, but they may have had a nice time. Very, very few of these folks end up with the big jackpot or a comped dinner and show.

The fact that some people get lucky helps to prevent anyone doing anything about what is a generalized problem with grading standards. The fact that so many sellers, not Pricescope vendors, offer certs that are known to be generally "soft" on grading as "just the same as any other cert" is sad, but true. Since they make good money with this practice they don't wish to see it end. So, what do we end up with? An uneven playing field where no one really has the power or desire to make it more fair or better.

At least, those increasingly knowledgeable shoppers we educate here will help to even the field just by their larger and larger impact on the total diamond business. The consumer will lead the way into more sophisticated and consistent grading while the traditional trade would generally choose to wait until the bitter end.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 11/20/2009 8:53:00 AM
Author: oldminer
Just joking, but Richard, is it possible you have a personal error rate of 2 in 10,000????

Yeah, I guess so. There was that time back in 1989 when I was wrong.

And then that time back in 1979. Thank God for the statute of limitations.