Is Tiffanys really that much more expensive?

[lisa1.01fvs1]

OK the image sucks

Table: 57%

Ttl Depth: 61.9

CA: 35.2

PA: 40.9

PD: 43.3%

Girdle: Med-slthk

LGF: 75%

Crwn Ht: 15.4%

Star Lgth: 55%

Ex/Ex/Ex: cut, polish, symmety

 

[IronMikey]

Date: 4/18/2008 5:49:48 PM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1

Date: 4/18/2008 5:32:07 PM
Author: IronMikey



Does anyone have a source that can prove the ACA is vastly superior to T and Co? Or that T and Co is equivalent to a mid range ideal cut?

IronMike - My T&Co. falls within AGSO, GIA Ex/Ex/EX and AGA1b (1 parameter).

They DO have ACA equivalent stones there just check the stats on each piece.

Yes this forum is biased towards great internet deals and had I known I might have gone this direction.

But for me the ring is all that I hoped for and love, love, love the customer service.

You have possibly made the best financial argument to go w/ Tiff''s that I have read yet. Thanks!

Thanks, Lisa.

From all the reading i had done on here I expected to look at the pricetag on the 2.2ct VVS2 H and see around $60k but when it was only $40 I started wondering how much you really save financially. To be honest, my GF shops at Bloomingdales, NM, Saks, etc and to her brand names are important. Usually that''s because they produce a higher quality item.

In this case the quality of the two may be similar but b/c I''m the one doing all the research she''ll never know that. To her, Tiffany''s just screams quality.

Also, people have been stating that the WF ACA is a better cut than T and Co. What about GOG? They don''t use this process and they sell AGS-0 stones at around the smae price as WF. Is there any argument to be made for GOG being superior to T and Co? Also, is WF superior to GOG then?

 

[IronMikey]

Date: 4/18/2008 6:06:19 PM
Author: NewEnglandLady
You''re right, it wasn''t 5%, the bankwire price is only a 3% discount, sorry about my miscalculation.

Still, my point is that if a person is interested in saving $1,500 by putting the ring on a 0% card while the money grows in a fund for a year, Tiffany probably isn''t the store for them since they''d be spending thousands more on a name.

I''m not trying to be a proponent of online vendors, in fact DH bought my ring from a high-end B&M who was about to send off some of their pieces to auction and he was able to negotiate with them. While the whole red-carpet experience was fun and it is nice to have a ring from a well-known jeweller, we only went that route because we were in a unique situation and it was the best deal. Again, the difference in what we paid after taxes for our ring which had almost a half a carat in side stones in platinum vs. the Tiffany quote for a same-quality stone from the SAME cutting house was $13k, so it''s like having a car or something thrown in.

My point is that for those who are PRICE conscious, Tiffany just isn''t the best option. While you might get a great stone, there''s no way you can get a good deal.

I make a decent living but I''d still take the 0% loan. It''s free money. A lot of people who shop and Tiff''s have money b/c they''re smart when it comes to money.

Also, congrats on the solid BM deal. I saw a 2ct at another BM as I mentioned above for the same price as T and Co. I was just really shocked by that. Why not just get the blue box if you''re shopping at a B&M. Perhaps you can haggle the other stores on price and T''s won''t budge. Still though, I doubt you''d talk them down that much.

 

[NewEnglandLady]

It sounds like you know she wants a ring from Tiffany because she''s brand-conscious and are just trying to figure out the most economical way to do it. You know it''s going to cost you more, but not so much more that you should go with an un-branded ring. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that! I don''t think anybody here would steer you towards something you didn''t think she''d love and if Tiffany is it, you should go for it! I think figuring out how you can save a little dough is smart since you know the prices aren''t negotiable--going down to an I color and VS clarity and putting it on a 0% card while the sum gains interest are good ways of being as economical as you can. Also, you have the tools to weed out any non-superior cuts, so I think you''re on the right track!

 

[IronMikey]

Thanks -- unfortunatly I don''t trust myself to weed out losers. I''m really going to need to rely on the PS community.

I''m not dead set on T and Co at all. In fact, she wasn''t so sure she loved the classic 6 prong setting. She liked the setting more at JE Caldwell and there it seemed to be a replica of the Cartier 1895 setting. Honestly, I''m very open to the idea of going to an online vendor esp if she isn''t dead set on anythig from T and Co (or a similar store).

I know WF does a setting similar to the Cartier. I was in agreement with her just b/c the band width on the T and Co increases as the ct size does -- the 2.2 ct band was a bit thick for her fingers.

 

[musey]

Date: 4/18/2008 6:32:01 PM
Author: IronMikey

I'm not dead set on T and Co at all. In fact, she wasn't so sure she loved the classic 6 prong setting.

I'm no Tiffany advocate per se, but just wanted to point out that they do have other settings besides the classic 6-prong... going with them wouldn't have to mean that setting.

 

[Cleo]

Date: 4/18/2008 6:02:16 PM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1


Cleo, hope this attaches.

I scored 2.5 on HCA but realized there are a lot of complexities to this tool and that it doesn''t apply to my stone (see AGS, GIA, AGA grades).

Yummy. Yummy. Yummy.

Myself, I am a complete sucker for brand names - I love them... Louis Vuitton, Tiffany, Jimmy Choo, Cartier... yumyumyumyum!

I am going to have to hunt down some photos of your Tiffany beauty Lisa...

And yes, I would also love the whole blue box experience! LOL!

I don''t make my purchasing decisions based on logic... just on what I want!

x x x

 

[IronMikey]

Yeah I know about the other settings. The problem for em with T and Co is that what they make is what they make, and that''s that. My GF liked the Novo setting but wasn''t crazy about the square cushion. The Novo with a round brilliant would be ideal but that''s not going to happen without finding a different vendor. I''ve read mixed reviews of the supurbcert replica Novo

 

[kcgunesq]

Date: 4/18/2008 5:46:11 PM
Author: IronMikey

Date: 4/18/2008 5:39:08 PM

Author: Cleo

Date: 4/18/2008 5:32:07 PM

Author: IronMikey


Also, the bank wire discount of 2% (not 5%) is nowhere near the same thing as earning 5% for 12+ months on a 30K lump sum.

Except that the $30k deposit is probably losing close to 3% in inflation, so your net is only 2%, less if you have to pay tax on the interest gain. Whereas with the wire discount, you get 2% TODAY, NET, in todays dollars. I like 2% today in today''s dollars better than 2% tomorrow in tomorrows dollars.

 

[IronMikey]

Date: 4/18/2008 6:58:55 PM
Author: kcgunesq

Date: 4/18/2008 5:46:11 PM
Author: IronMikey

Date: 4/18/2008 5:39:08 PM

Author: Cleo

Date: 4/18/2008 5:32:07 PM

Author: IronMikey


Also, the bank wire discount of 2% (not 5%) is nowhere near the same thing as earning 5% for 12+ months on a 30K lump sum.

Except that the $30k deposit is probably losing close to 3% in inflation, so your net is only 2%, less if you have to pay tax on the interest gain. Whereas with the wire discount, you get 2% TODAY, NET, in todays dollars. I like 2% today in today''s dollars better than 2% tomorrow in tomorrows dollars.

? Losing in inflation -- I don''t follow.

The 2% on the bank wire is about $500. Even assuming you could only make 3% on your $30K that''s still > $900 after 12 months. The $500 now is worth $515 at that same 3% interest rate in 1 year. In sum, you make $400 more in a year depositing $30k and taking 3% than you would taking an upfront 2% savings on $23k and investing it the same way.

The better the interest rate the more you''d save. At 5.5% it''s $1700 vs $500

 

[Miranda]

I''m in agreement with Lisa. You make the best argument for a Tiffany ring that I''ve ever heard. I''m going to bookmark this thread so I can refer to it the next time I need to produce a cost benefit analysis for my hubby! Blue Box or not, good luck on finding a fantastic ring!

 

[Ellen]

Date: 4/18/2008 6:07:15 PM
Author: IronMikey

Also, people have been stating that the WF ACA is a better cut than T and Co. What about GOG? They don't use this process and they sell AGS-0 stones at around the smae price as WF. Is there any argument to be made for GOG being superior to T and Co? Also, is WF superior to GOG then?

GOG, among several online vendors, carry stones equivalent to ACA's. But ACA's are not in a league unto themselves, they're just superbly cut H&A stones. Lots of vendors carry the same type/quality cut. My upgrade came from GOG, my studs are ACA's, they both are stunning, there's no "winner".

 

[Dodgers!]

Date: 4/18/2008 7:11:18 PM
Author: IronMikey

Date: 4/18/2008 6:58:55 PM

Author: kcgunesq

Date: 4/18/2008 5:46:11 PM

Author: IronMikey

Date: 4/18/2008 5:39:08 PM


Author: Cleo

Date: 4/18/2008 5:32:07 PM


Author: IronMikey



Also, the bank wire discount of 2% (not 5%) is nowhere near the same thing as earning 5% for 12+ months on a 30K lump sum.

Except that the $30k deposit is probably losing close to 3% in inflation, so your net is only 2%, less if you have to pay tax on the interest gain. Whereas with the wire discount, you get 2% TODAY, NET, in todays dollars. I like 2% today in today''s dollars better than 2% tomorrow in tomorrows dollars.

? Losing in inflation -- I don''t follow.


The 2% on the bank wire is about $500. Even assuming you could only make 3% on your $30K that''s still > $900 after 12 months. The $500 now is worth $515 at that same 3% interest rate in 1 year. In sum, you make $400 more in a year depositing $30k and taking 3% than you would taking an upfront 2% savings on $23k and investing it the same way.


The better the interest rate the more you''d save. At 5.5% it''s $1700 vs $500

you need to add the interest you''d earn on the 20-30% savings you''d have as well...if you''d paid 30k at tiff...and 22k at WF...8k in a 5% interest bearing cd would net you 400 (+the savings from Wire transfer = 900) plus you''d have the 8k still! haha...just playing devil''s advocate to this numbers justification nonsense. In all honesty I feel your pain IronMikey. Being a brand slave, My GF really loved Harry Winston, but after seeing the ring in person she kinda wanted a flush fit wedding band, so we had one custom designed to have the elements she liked about the Harry Winston but also to have the things she liked. She felt almost like a designer which was cool, and she was happy that no one could have the exact same setting but with a bigger diamond haha. In the end I saved some cash which should go to the wedding or a nice gift to myself, maybe patek phillipe...most likely wedding

 

[Dodgers!]

Date: 4/18/2008 8:01:59 PM
Author: Dodgers!



you need to add the interest you''d earn on the 20-30% savings you''d have as well...if you''d paid 30k at tiff...and 22k at WF...8k in a 5% interest bearing cd would net you 400 (+the savings from Wire transfer = 900) plus you''d have the 8k still! haha...just playing devil''s advocate to this numbers justification nonsense. In all honesty I feel your pain IronMikey. Being a brand slave, My GF really loved Harry Winston, but after seeing the ring in person she kinda wanted a flush fit wedding band, so we had one custom designed to have the elements she liked about the Harry Winston but also to have the things she liked. She felt almost like a designer which was cool, and she was happy that no one could have the exact same setting but with a bigger diamond haha. In the end I saved some cash which should go to the wedding or a nice gift to myself, maybe patek phillipe...most likely wedding

Oh and any interest you''d earn on the payments you''d be making to tiffany during the year...since you would not be making them if you went online...ok i''ll stop now

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

 

[IronMikey]

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting


But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.

The Tiffany is not even close.

And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.

The others are not even close.


So it is not an easy thing.


If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide

(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)


Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc


Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

Gary,

When you say the Tiffany diamond isn''t as close is that a blanket statement or do you think that the great cut might be out there by Tiffany but you''re searching for a diamond in the rough (OK that was really lame)?

Basically, my question is this: Might there be a Tiffany diamond that comes close to that offered by WF or GOG? I''m willing to do all the searching needed. My proposal date is months and months away. I know the stones at T and Co looked great to my eye but the lighting in the store was designed to make that happen. What tools might I need to determine if the Tiffany diamond comes close to the WF or GOG? Would bringing #''s and a cert to PS be enough or should I try to get idealscope images etc.

Thanks so much to everyone. This thread has really helped me get my thoughts together.

 

[LtlFirecracker]

Just a suggestion, if she likes brand names, and likes a pave setting like the novo, what about getting her a brand name setting with a nice diamond of your choice. I know a few people here got the Ritani endless love and it gives a similar look to the novo, although it is not a replica.

http://www.pearlmansjewelers.com/jewelry-designers/ritani-jewelry/rings/12QQ1/18/

 

[~*kalypso*~]

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

How do you know the Tiffany diamonds are not even close to top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc.?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/18/2008 9:50:07 PM
Author: ~*kalypso*~

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

How do you know the Tiffany diamonds are not even close to top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc.?

I know from walking into several tiffany stores around the world and looking at their diamonds with an Ideal-scope.

And there have been several Prisceops shoppers have reported the same thing
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/a-day-at-tiffanys-with-the-i-scope.69733/ for example.

I have yet to hear any evidence that Tiffany is transperent enough to allow their customers access to the type of information that Pricescopers have become acustomed to recieving.

This does not mean there are not Tiffany staff prepared to go out of their way to assist you.

I also see on Tiffany''s website that they have a very traditional (out of date) approach to gemology. They do not know for example what ''brillianteering'' or girdle painting and digging means - they miss used one such example to describe their girdle thickness rules

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

One of my first posts here was about my diamond scoring 2.5 on HCA and how surprised I was.

Then I read a lot about the tool and realized it doesn''t apply (take into acct additional facets, symmetry, polish, etc.) and that my stone exhibts many arrows and is white, bright and firey at the same time! A very good balance of all.

So I don''t agree Garry.

Read tycobb''s posts about finding the "right" #''s at tiff''s and they''re like any store that has a variety and selection.

Some arrows for fun!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 4/18/2008 10:33:30 PM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

One of my first posts here was about my diamond scoring 2.5 on HCA and how surprised I was.

Then I read a lot about the tool and realized it doesn''t apply (take into acct additional facets, symmetry, polish, etc.) and that my stone exhibts many arrows and is white, bright and firey at the same time! A very good balance of all.

So I don''t agree Garry.

Read tycobb''s posts about finding the ''right'' #''s at tiff''s and they''re like any store that has a variety and selection.

Some arrows for fun!

Lisa I have written a lot about the fact that HCA is a little too strict (two eyed vs one eyed view and super symmetry). Also in some cases appropriate painting can help a stone up to HCA 3.
So we do not need to disagree on that basis

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Date: 4/18/2008 10:46:44 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 4/18/2008 10:33:30 PM
Author: lisa1.01fvs1

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

One of my first posts here was about my diamond scoring 2.5 on HCA and how surprised I was.

Then I read a lot about the tool and realized it doesn''t apply (take into acct additional facets, symmetry, polish, etc.) and that my stone exhibts many arrows and is white, bright and firey at the same time! A very good balance of all.

So I don''t agree Garry.

Read tycobb''s posts about finding the ''right'' #''s at tiff''s and they''re like any store that has a variety and selection.

Some arrows for fun!

Lisa I have written a lot about the fact that HCA is a little too strict (two eyed vs one eyed view and super symmetry). Also in some cases appropriate painting can help a stone up to HCA 3.
So we do not need to disagree on that basis

Garry not challenging you on this point.

Not clear about the rest of your reasoning that GOG or WF or JA, etc. cannot compare?

I''m going to go read their website info on their "traditional (out of date) approach to gemology. They do not know for example what ''brillianteering'' or girdle painting and digging means - they miss used one such example to describe their girdle thickness rules"

I find this interesting.......

 

[kathyinjapan]

Cost and specs aside, one big advantage I consider with T&Co is that I can walk into any of their stores worldwide and receive complimentary lifetime servicing on my rings

 

[Imdanny]

Date: 4/18/2008 5:43:22 PM
Author: Ellen
why risk getting just a 'good stone',

For a whole lot more money, unless saving 25% or whatever large percentage it is isn't a lot of money for you. I like Tiffany for some things it does well but they didn't invent diamonds and a six prong setting is not rocket science in my opinion.

 

[Sharon101]

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

Well put Garry, and a totally honest assessment.

T. does have better mounts and you are also paying for a fabulous design with proportions that pass the test of time. Good design is not cheap, and it is not a freebie. Design has to be factored into the cost of things, and is over and above the cost of the basic components of the item.

But diamond hunting is a fine art, and for those in the know, T. is not the best and certainly not worth a premium. Diamond experts want the best that exists, and they are not taken in by a blue box.

 

[Sharon101]

And as for the `free` interest period, that is just a marketing tool. If you establish a price that will attract a year interest free, all you have to do is ask the price if you pay `now`. Guaranteed it will be less by the amount of interest involved!!!!! The interest is always factored into the innitial price, no arbitrage Im afraid!!!!! The reality is that they are making money on the sale and on financing the amount of the sale!!!!!! Cash is always king, and there is no such thing as a free loan!!!!!

 

[bee*]

Date: 4/18/2008 8:52:13 PM
Author: IronMikey

Basically, my question is this: Might there be a Tiffany diamond that comes close to that offered by WF or GOG? I''m willing to do all the searching needed. My proposal date is months and months away. I know the stones at T and Co looked great to my eye but the lighting in the store was designed to make that happen. What tools might I need to determine if the Tiffany diamond comes close to the WF or GOG? Would bringing #''s and a cert to PS be enough or should I try to get idealscope images etc.

Next time you''re there ask can you view the diamonds by the window. They will allow you. I looked at so many beside the window when I was picking my ring. I have a lucida so I can''t really compare it to another diamond but when I got mine, they were great about sending me on any info on specs etc before I went to NY. Let them know the specs that you''re looking for and they will find a diamond for you based on that.

 

[lisa1.01fvs1]

Date: 4/19/2008 3:43:11 AM
Author: Sharon101

Date: 4/18/2008 8:31:45 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I think thisis intersting

But you can not compare a top quality WF GOG NI Infinity etc diamond with a Tiffany diamond.
The Tiffany is not even close.
And the Tiffany mount is a tiffany mount.
The others are not even close.

So it is not an easy thing.

If the diamond is most important, then do as some others have done with our assisitance - get the very best Tiffany can provide
(it still will not be mind clean optical symmetry)

Or buy from a vendor who gives you all the info / has cut quality standards etc

Orr if the mount is important, buy Tiffany

Well put Garry, and a totally honest assessment.

T. does have better mounts and you are also paying for a fabulous design with proportions that pass the test of time. Good design is not cheap, and it is not a freebie. Design has to be factored into the cost of things, and is over and above the cost of the basic components of the item.

But diamond hunting is a fine art, and for those in the know, T. is not the best and certainly not worth a premium. Diamond experts want the best that exists, and they are not taken in by a blue box.

Arghhh!!!

I am so tired of the references to the "Blue Box."

I had mine sent for sizing and then wore it right away - NO BLUE BOX.

Yeah they gave me one but its in my closet somewhere, I don''t know.

Guys, it''s not the box.

And as to the premium, that''s a matter of personal preference and totally subjective.

And as demonstrated above by Iron Mike the premium aint all that.

Believe it or not not everyone loves the precision of ACA or H&A (read a post from someone not long ago). I personally do.

The "best that exists" is a concept to the beholder.

 

[bee*]

I hear ya on the blue box thing lisa! We don''t even have a Tiffanys in Ireland so the blue box means nothing to me either! I personally got my ring in Tiffanys as the lucida was the most beautiful ring I had ever seen and that''s the only place that sells them. I really do not think that many people buy purely for the blue box.

 

[gwendolyn]

Date: 4/19/2008 12:02:53 PM
Author: bee*
I hear ya on the blue box thing lisa! We don''t even have a Tiffanys in Ireland so the blue box means nothing to me either! I personally got my ring in Tiffanys as the lucida was the most beautiful ring I had ever seen and that''s the only place that sells them. I really do not think that many people buy purely for the blue box.

Maybe they wear the boxes and throw the jewelry away?