Is This Why He Did It?

[iLander]

ARTICLE EXCERPT

Nancy Lanza, the mother of the Sandy Hook shooter, was in the process of having her son committed to a psychiatric facility when he went on the mass shooting spree, a lifelong family acquaintance told Fox News.

A senior law enforcement official also confirmed that 20-year-old Lanza's anger over his mother's plan is being investigated as a possible motive for the Newtown shooting.

"From what I've been told, Adam was aware of her petitioning the court for conservatorship and (her) plans to have him committed," said Joshua Flashman, 25, who grew up not far from where the shooting took place. "Adam was apparently very upset about this. He thought she just wanted to send him away. From what I understand, he was really, really angry. I think this could have been it, what set him off."

It's unclear whether Adam's mother, Nancy Lanza, was really filing the paperwork, because court officials say that such records are sealed. But she would have gone through a longer process to get legal rights to commit an adult to a hospital or psych ward against his will.

Nancy Lanza reportedly volunteered with kindergartners at the school for several years. Flashman said that Adam "believed she cared more for the children than she did for him." On the day of the massacre, Nancy was Adam's first victim. Flashman told Fox News that Nancy was also good friends with the school's principal and psychologist, both of whom were killed during the incident.

Lanza had also reportedly cut off communication with his father, Peter, in 2010.

If this is all true, it could be an explanation. For what it's worth.

 

[Karl_K]

link?

 

[Dee*Jay]

I'm sure I'm missign something here, but if you think someone is in a condition that they should be committed to an institution is it wise for the committ-ee to be aware of the pending action...? How did he know (if indeed it is true)? Did she tell him? Did someone come to "interview him"? Other... ?

 

[iLander]

link?

It's here;

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/19/adam-lanza-motive_n_2329508.html

 

[iLander]

I'm sure I'm missign something here, but if you think someone is in a condition that they should be committed to an institution is it wise for the committ-ee to be aware of the pending action...? How did he know (if indeed it is true)? Did she tell him? Did someone come to "interview him"? Other... ?

I have no idea what transpired, it was a short article.

Yeah, I don't think I'd tell someone ahead of time . . .

 

[ame]

Who is this supposed source who grew up nearby? A court clerk? A medical person? Or just some random famewhore?

 

[Karl_K]

I'm sure I'm missign something here, but if you think someone is in a condition that they should be committed to an institution is it wise for the committ-ee to be aware of the pending action...? How did he know (if indeed it is true)? Did she tell him? Did someone come to "interview him"? Other... ?

It is pretty much impossible to get someone committed without them knowing about it.
They can get a 72 hour hold only if the person is a clear threat to themselves or others.
After 72 hours they have to be brought before a judge and if the person acts normal in court there is little chance the judge will order longer detention.
The next step is to get guardianship which is impossible to do without them knowing because of how it has been abused in the past.
Then sign the commitment papers if they are accepted to an institution.
Then at most they will keep them 6 months to get them stable on meds and they are released.
They get out and some do fine for a long time but a percentage go off meds and wash rinse repeat.
The most dangerous time for themselves and those around them are 48-96 hours after they go off meds.

One class of drugs are particularly bad.
Many of the mass shooters have been coming off these drugs.
They work well for a lot of people but coming off them can create monsters in some cases.
On the other hand if you stress the bad about them a lot of people who they are helping will get scared and stop taking them making an even bigger problem so it is kept quiet.
They do help a lot of people with mental illness live happy and balanced lives.

Ask any cop the most dreaded call(other than officer down) is EDP off of medication.

 

[monarch64]

Perhaps this person will provide us all with some insight:

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/police-boy-was-excited-by-sandy-hook-shooting-planned-to-break-the-record

 

[Maria D]

This theory is already being disputed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/motive-behind-newtown-killings-remains-mystery-article-1.1223395

From the article:
Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church in nearby Monroe, was forced to put out a statement after his son told FoxNews.com that Lanza’s mother, Nancy, wanted to put him in a psychiatric facility.
“I’ve just spoken to Josh,” Flashman said of his son, according to The Journal News. “As the Fox News article indicates, the information Josh spoke to them about was hearsay and not confirmed. I suggest you do not run with the story. I am perplexed why Fox would run with it in the first place.”

 

[AGBF]

Karl-It is reassuring to me to read your postings on this topic, because you really have the facts. As do I. Although it is hard for people to fathom that some things might be so (like that people who are likely to be very dangerous need to be informed that they are about to be committed), there are excellent legal reasons for it being the case that they are so informed. And, even if it there were no such compelling reasons, facts are facts. They are informed. You and I know it. As I said, I find it reassuring to read your postings since you know what you are talking about.

Thank you.

Deb

 

[Karl_K]

Karl-It is reassuring to me to read your postings on this topic, because you really have the facts. As do I. Although it is hard for people to fathom that some things might be so (like that people who are likely to be very dangerous need to be informed that they are about to be committed), there are excellent legal reasons for it being the case that they are so informed. And, even if it there were no such compelling reasons, facts are facts. They are informed. You and I know it. As I said, I find it reassuring to read your postings since you know what you are talking about.

Thank you.

Deb

Huge hugs!!!!!!!!!
Been there multiple times, just over a year ago with a friends 18 year old son unfortunately we could not save him from suicide.
Hard to believe it has been over a year, seems just like yesterday.

It is horribly frustrating on one hand on the other the past abuses of the mentally ill are just plain evil.
imho a more effective middle ground needs to be found.
To top it off the state of IL just eliminated 1/2 the beds in the state for mental health care by defunding them.
There were 6 week waiting lists for non-emergency commitment that is going to double if not triple.
This puts even more pressure for them to kick people out too early.

 

[ame]

This theory is already being disputed.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/motive-behind-newtown-killings-remains-mystery-article-1.1223395

From the article:
Richard Flashman, a pastor at Beacon Hill Evangelical Free Church in nearby Monroe, was forced to put out a statement after his son told FoxNews.com that Lanza’s mother, Nancy, wanted to put him in a psychiatric facility.
“I’ve just spoken to Josh,” Flashman said of his son, according to The Journal News. “As the Fox News article indicates, the information Josh spoke to them about was hearsay and not confirmed. I suggest you do not run with the story. I am perplexed why Fox would run with it in the first place.”

Because it's Fox "News" and since when has a silly little FACT mattered to them.

 

[iLander]

Karl and AGBF

Is there a support group for those dealing with the mental issues of family and friends?

Sort of like an "Al-Anon" for mental illness?

If there isn't, there really should be.

It would help people to share resources, tips, stories. It doesn't seem fair that each family has to invent their own coping mechanisms and navigate the system on their own. Surely, other people have been down this road and can share the journey.

 

[VapidLapid]

iLander, you know my dog Murry is a therapy dog, at least to me, and he is on a popular social media place

end threadjack

 

[Dee*Jay]

I'm sure I'm missign something here, but if you think someone is in a condition that they should be committed to an institution is it wise for the committ-ee to be aware of the pending action...? How did he know (if indeed it is true)? Did she tell him? Did someone come to "interview him"? Other... ?

It is pretty much impossible to get someone committed without them knowing about it.
They can get a 72 hour hold only if the person is a clear threat to themselves or others.
After 72 hours they have to be brought before a judge and if the person acts normal in court there is little chance the judge will order longer detention.
The next step is to get guardianship which is impossible to do without them knowing because of how it has been abused in the past.
Then sign the commitment papers if they are accepted to an institution.
Then at most they will keep them 6 months to get them stable on meds and they are released.
They get out and some do fine for a long time but a percentage go off meds and wash rinse repeat.
The most dangerous time for themselves and those around them are 48-96 hours after they go off meds.

One class of drugs are particularly bad.
Many of the mass shooters have been coming off these drugs.
They work well for a lot of people but coming off them can create monsters in some cases.
On the other hand if you stress the bad about them a lot of people who they are helping will get scared and stop taking them making an even bigger problem so it is kept quiet.
They do help a lot of people with mental illness live happy and balanced lives.

Ask any cop the most dreaded call(other than officer down) is EDP off of medication.

Karl, thank you for that info. I really didn't know so I hope my question wasn't "stupid."

 

[Dee*Jay]

Sorry - double post.

 

[Karl_K]

Karl, thank you for that info. I really didn't know so I hope my question wasn't "stupid."

I actually wish more people knew and cared about it so maybe the laws could be changed to something more reasonable that still protects people with mental illness and stop the funding cuts.
Its not fashionable like screaming ban guns or blame the mom so it gets little attention.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Karl, thank you and I totally agree. One thing many people do not understand is how dangerous it can be for even a nonviolent person to go off meds even medically supervised. It is scary and terrible. The person is not themselves at that time.

 

[decodelighted]

Karl and AGBF

Is there a support group for those dealing with the mental issues of family and friends?

Sort of like an "Al-Anon" for mental illness?

If there isn't, there really should be.

It would help people to share resources, tips, stories. It doesn't seem fair that each family has to invent their own coping mechanisms and navigate the system on their own. Surely, other people have been down this road and can share the journey.

NAMI
http://www.nami.org/

 

[MissGotRocks]

Very interesting even if it is all speculation. When it was first reported that his mother was a teacher at the school, I thought he probably targeted the students because he thought she cared more about them than she did him. After we found that she didn't teach there, that sort of blew that theory. However, there was some reason he targeted the school - even if it only made sense to him. The volunteer angle still holds true with my original thought. I had read that the mother had found a school in Washington state and was going to move there with him. I wondered if he might not be unhappy with that turn of events. This commitment thing would hold more water than the moving one in terms of making him angry.

I don't believe this was just a random thing with no thought process involved. We may never truly know the answer but there is one - somewhere. It's just a shame on so many levels and it frightens me to think what the family in each of these children's deaths may look like at this time next year. The stress and devastation is often very difficult to overcome. I hope that they can hold fast to one another rather than having it tear them apart.

 

[AGBF]

Very interesting even if it is all speculation. When it was first reported that his mother was a teacher at the school, I thought he probably targeted the students because he thought she cared more about them than she did him. After we found that she didn't teach there, that sort of blew that theory. However, there was some reason he targeted the school - even if it only made sense to him. The volunteer angle still holds true with my original thought.

I totally agree. He went after those little babies for a reason. A crazy reason and maybe one no one else will ever fully understand, but a reason. You are spot on.

Deb

 

[LaraOnline]

Karl, thank you for that info. I really didn't know so I hope my question wasn't "stupid."

I actually wish more people knew and cared about it so maybe the laws could be changed to something more reasonable that still protects people with mental illness and stop the funding cuts.
Its not fashionable like screaming ban guns or blame the mom so it gets little attention.

Still the fact remains that proximity to guns was the reason why he chose guns and was able to kill so many people so easily and so quickly. 10 minutes was all it took, thanks to the type of guns he had access to.

Knife or bomb? Completely different scenario both, utterly different Bomb making is a very long drawn out and fairly complicated process...most murder suicides are crimes of passion, not years-long plotting. Bombing is more of a political statement, is it not?

Crazy people, and people who snap under pressure, will always be with us, they all cannot be legislated away or locked away for ever.

I've heard that gun sales have gone through the roof in the US since this tragedy occurred. Seems like access to guns is a massive problem, it's like an internal arms race going on within a country, between citizens.

 

[Kaleigh]

Deb and Karl you know how to reach me, I need help with BIL off the deep end.

I pray we get mental help for people. Not more guns. And getting mental help?? Have you tried it?? It's next to impossible.

 

[iLander]

iLander, you know my dog Murry is a therapy dog, at least to me, and he is on a popular social media place

end threadjack

I LOVE Murry! We need waaaaay more pictures of him, VL. Feel free to post some in this otherwise unhappy thread, we need some of that therapy. You should have some bumper stickers made up with his picture, they could say "PUGS NOT GUNS".

And no one should EVER worry about a thread jack in one of my threads, I am very easy-going and I like a freewheeling conversation.

 

[iLander]

Karl and AGBF

Is there a support group for those dealing with the mental issues of family and friends?

Sort of like an "Al-Anon" for mental illness?

If there isn't, there really should be.

It would help people to share resources, tips, stories. It doesn't seem fair that each family has to invent their own coping mechanisms and navigate the system on their own. Surely, other people have been down this road and can share the journey.

NAMI
http://www.nami.org/

Thank you for showing this to me Deco. Do you know if they are the real deal? They are looking for donations, and it's certainly a worthwhile cause.

ETA: Bolded to capture those that casually read, a hint, hint for year-end donations.

 

[iLander]

Kaleigh, AGBF, Karl,

I'm sorry that you are dealing with these issues. It's difficult, we've had our own issues with a member of DH's family. He's passed now, but we realize he is finally at peace.

I am sending dust and prayers to you all, so that you have the strength and endurance to see it through another day. I send dust so that you, and those that are directly suffering, achieve a calm and manageable state.

Also, hugs. Big, heartfelt hugs to you guys.

 

[Karl_K]

Edit.....

 

[House Cat]

Karl and AGBF

Is there a support group for those dealing with the mental issues of family and friends?

Sort of like an "Al-Anon" for mental illness?

If there isn't, there really should be.

It would help people to share resources, tips, stories. It doesn't seem fair that each family has to invent their own coping mechanisms and navigate the system on their own. Surely, other people have been down this road and can share the journey.

NAMI
http://www.nami.org/

Thank you for showing this to me Deco. Do you know if they are the real deal? They are looking for donations, and it's certainly a worthwhile cause.

ETA: Bolded to capture those that casually read, a hint, hint for year-end donations.

NAMI is the real deal. Their friends and family class was very valuable for my mom. I know many family members of people with bipolar disorder and depression who have benefited from this class.

 

[Karl_K]

Kaleigh, AGBF, Karl,

I'm sorry that you are dealing with these issues. It's difficult, we've had our own issues with a member of DH's family. He's passed now, but we realize he is finally at peace.

I am sending dust and prayers to you all, so that you have the strength and endurance to see it through another day. I send dust so that you, and those that are directly suffering, achieve a calm and manageable state.

Also, hugs. Big, heartfelt hugs to you guys.

Thanks!
It is good to talk about it. Kinda feel like a weight is off that has been on ever since the shooting.
hugs back.

 

[Karl_K]

NAMI is the real deal. Their friends and family class was very valuable for my mom. I know many family members of people with bipolar disorder and depression who have benefited from this class.

Now I feel kind of bad about my post above.
The sister of the boy I was talking about above went to one of their local meetings and came home crying.. all they wanted was my money. She said they spent a lot of time trying to get donations. She got a ton of mail asking for donations also. It could just be the one locally that is subpar I guess.