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is this jeweler WRONG?

mjertl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
203
My BF and I went to look at stones this evening at a new B and M jeweler in town (he is opposed to going the online route...)
The jeweler showed us some stones. I was a little irritated that I told him I would like to look at ovals, and instead he tried to discourage me from them and kept bringing cushions out. They were beautiful, sure, but still, I wanted to see what I wanted to see.
He also seemed to be like: "here are some stones, do you like?" without talking about what my criteria were first. I'm not super active on this site, but I've been lurking long enough to know that there's a lotttttt more that goes into getting a great stone than that! Turns out I have some priorities, and a budget, etc (BF might have discussed budget with them earlier in the day, but still - $$$ is not everything!)
The thing that really bothered me was I'd ask for the cut grade, and he'd say "it's excellent polish, excellent symmetry." OK, yes, I understand that, but that's different from the CUT grade, right? He told me the only stones that are "ideal" are H and A (RB, not oval, obviously), and I think that that is WRONG. There are lots of stones that meet ideal proportions and have ideal light performance without having perfect hearts and arrows. H and A is different from cut grade, as are symmetry and polish. Or am I wrong? I brought that up to him and he seemed a little flustered, tried to explain that I was wrong, then brought some hearts on fire stones out...
Interestingly, he showed me an SI1 stone he said I wouldn't be able to see any inclusions in. I looked at it from a few inches away and said "no, there's an inclusion in the table." He asked if the bezel would be able to hide it. I said, "no, it's in the TABLE." He said there's not an inclusion there that you can see from the top, only from the pavilion. I said "2 o'clock." He looked under the loupe and said I should be a diamond grader... Honestly, that inclusion wouldn't even bother me, no non-PSer would be able to see it and I don't really have "mind clean" issues - it was tiny, not black, and at the very very edge of the table. But still, I felt like this guy didn't know his stuff... Am I wrong about the cut thing, or is he full of it?
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
The thing that really bothered me was I'd ask for the cut grade, and he'd say "it's excellent polish, excellent symmetry." OK, yes, I understand that, but that's different from the CUT grade, right? He told me the only stones that are "ideal" are H and A (RB, not oval, obviously), and I think that that is WRONG. There are lots of stones that meet ideal proportions and have ideal light performance without having perfect hearts and arrows. H and A is different from cut grade, as are symmetry and polish. Or am I wrong? I brought that up to him and he seemed a little flustered, tried to explain that I was wrong, then brought some hearts on fire stones out...
yes, you are correct in that polish/symmetry is different from cut grade.

also, you are correct, H&A refers to optical symmetry and not necessarily GIA Ex cut grade or AGS ideal cut grade.

it sounds like you didn't have a good experience with this vendor...you should definitely go with someone that you are comfortable with.
 

mjertl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
203
thank you for letting me know I'm not crazy...
I am going to look at some stones tomorrow from a different store, where I was more impressed with the person I was working with. BF was less impressed with their selection though. I care less about that, as my setting will likely end up being custom given what I'm looking for (which is incredibly simple, and inexplicably difficult to find around here), and the fact that they've been more willing to bring in a bunch of different stones for me to look at.
Honestly, getting something on the internet is much more appealing to me - bigger inventory to choose from, more information readily available for me to pour over...
Funny that I trust people from certain online vendors, who I've never met, so much because they been vetted by you guys, and I know they know more than me about stones!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
mjertl|1317705116|3032690 said:
thank you for letting me know I'm not crazy...
I am going to look at some stones tomorrow from a different store, where I was more impressed with the person I was working with. BF was less impressed with their selection though. I care less about that, as my setting will likely end up being custom given what I'm looking for (which is incredibly simple, and inexplicably difficult to find around here), and the fact that they've been more willing to bring in a bunch of different stones for me to look at.
Honestly, getting something on the internet is much more appealing to me - bigger inventory to choose from, more information readily available for me to pour over...
Funny that I trust people from certain online vendors, who I've never met, so much because they been vetted by you guys, and I know they know more than me about stones!
what sort of custom setting are you looking for?

I don't think it matters local vs. internet...you just have to find a jeweler who provides a level of information that you are comfortable with and someone you feel comfortable purchasing from. Since you are already looking locally perhaps look online too to get some options for comparison.

I got my custom setting from one of the PS vendors after my local jeweler provided me with side stones that did not match per my standards...I felt good going with them after seeing so many examples of their work on PS and the price was right too :)
 

frankiextah

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 12, 2009
Messages
784
may i ask where you are located ? perhaps there are online vendors that has a B&M location near your town, or somewhat driving distance?
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,329
There is no cut grade for cushions. AGS graded ovals are practically impossible to come by. But AGS-Ideal princesses are not so rare, especially on the Internet.

So I would say that both of you are not quite right.
 

Christina...

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 7, 2011
Messages
5,028
JulieN|1317711795|3032734 said:
There is no cut grade for cushions. AGS graded ovals are practically impossible to come by. But AGS-Ideal princesses are not so rare, especially on the Internet.

So I would say that both of you are not quite right.

+1 GIA does not give a cut grade on fancy shaped stones either. There are precentages though that most people feel reflect the beauty and light preformance of a diamond better than others. You can find that here....https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/oval-cut-diamond/ You may find it handy as you continue shopping, you can compare the #s on the reports to this criteria to help you narrow down your selection. ASET on fancy shaped stones is an excellent tool as well and will give you an indication of how the stone will perform.

I had the same expereince shopping at local BM stores, the salesman wanted to show me what he had in stock, which is almost always RB, and princess cuts. Most of these places carry what sells the best and that's what they want to sell you. It wouldn't make sense for them to stock stones that were a tough sell. I'm sure that they could get you anything that you wanted, it's just more timely for you. Shopping online has its advantages because the vendor has access to thousands of stones in the shape that you want and you can slect from your specific criteria. I took a list into my jewels to show him exactly what I was interested in, he then ordered a few in for me to look at, perhaps you could try this.

Also, if your bf had spoken to the jeweler earlier in the day and budget or criteria were discussed then the salesman was appropriate to show you diamonds within those guidelines. It would have been wrong of him to disreguard your bfs budget and show you diamonds thousands of dollars more expensive, and if you have discussed budget with your bf as well, then it would be insensitive of you to disreguard them as well. Maybe you should discuss your expecations with each other before you go shopping again?

Buying an engagement ring is supposed to be a fun experience, not stressful and frustrating (though it often can be overwhelming). It sounds like you know what you want and you should stick to it, so long as it fits your budget. Your right not to buy something just because thats what someone wants to sell you. COngrats on your upcomming engagement! :D
 

swingirl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 6, 2006
Messages
5,660
You won't find many vendors that keep a lot of ovals on hand. They are considered a "fancy" cut and not as popular are round, princess and cushion. So don't be surprised if a salesperson tries to direct you away from ovals.
 

mjertl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
203
JulieN|1317711795|3032734 said:
There is no cut grade for cushions. AGS graded ovals are practically impossible to come by. But AGS-Ideal princesses are not so rare, especially on the Internet.

So I would say that both of you are not quite right.
I should've mentioned that the conversation we were having about cut grade was in reference to RBs, which is what we were looking at at the time.

I know not many people have ovals on hand, that's fine, but the way he tried to steer me away from them, rather than offering to bring some in (which he eventually did offer to do) kinda irked me. I don't know if he thought we were just going to buy a stone right then and there on our first visit to the store?... Maybe that's what a lot of people do, I don't know. But you guys have educated me a little too much for that!

Also, I didn't mean that I wanted to see stones outside of our budget when I said money isn't everything. What I really meant was we have a budget, and for that money we want to get the stone that best meets our specifications. I don't want to see 1.3 carat stones that are I1, just because they're in the budget and are bigger I'd rather see a 0.9 ct SI1! I also don't really need to see D color stones that are much smaller, when G looks just fine to me...
 

yennyfire

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Messages
6,573
You definitely need to find a vendor you're comfortable with and who is willing to show you what you want to see, even if it means having to bring it in for you.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,118
mjertl|1317705116|3032690 said:
thank you for letting me know I'm not crazy...
I am going to look at some stones tomorrow from a different store, where I was more impressed with the person I was working with. BF was less impressed with their selection though. I care less about that, as my setting will likely end up being custom given what I'm looking for (which is incredibly simple, and inexplicably difficult to find around here), and the fact that they've been more willing to bring in a bunch of different stones for me to look at.
Honestly, getting something on the internet is much more appealing to me - bigger inventory to choose from, more information readily available for me to pour over...
Funny that I trust people from certain online vendors, who I've never met, so much because they been vetted by you guys, and I know they know more than me about stones!

I'm with you - I want the vendor of my stone to know more than me about the stones, and I want the person making the setting to know more than me about designing and manufacturing mountings!


AGS apparently will issue a DQD (w/ ray tracing simulation analysis) for an oval http://agslab.com/products-platinum-diamond-quality-document.php I've never seen it though, and I don't know how good it is... like Julie and yenny said best find a vendor whose eyes you trust. What sort of setting are you looking for?
 

smokey99

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
124
Mjertle-

I see it was asked earlier in this thread but didnt see a response- What area are you from? Perhaps the PS'ers here can point you to a reputable B&M store in close proximity to you to take a look at.


Also- I understand your frustration with the associate that helped you. Sometimes, people need to be reminded that you are there to purchase what you want, not what they want to sell you... Best of luck in finding something you love. Hopefully your bf can warm up to the idea of shopping at an online vendor. When you think of places like GOG, they may be an online vendor as well, but they are an established B&M store too. In fact, like you- I honestly feel much MORE comfortable giving my business to one of these PS vendors that has a high volume of web feedback. Better information, larger selection, lower prices (in most cases) and imo- comparable if not better customer service. Also, I'd actually feel less comfortable with a 'new B&M' store in your area as they are not an established business that has proven itself to have the quality, service and staying power to be around in the future.
 

mjertl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
203
smokey99|1317734740|3032837 said:
Mjertle-

I see it was asked earlier in this thread but didnt see a response- What area are you from? Perhaps the PS'ers here can point you to a reputable B&M store in close proximity to you to take a look at.


Also- I understand your frustration with the associate that helped you. Sometimes, people need to be reminded that you are there to purchase what you want, not what they want to sell you... Best of luck in finding something you love. Hopefully your bf can warm up to the idea of shopping at an online vendor. When you think of places like GOG, they may be an online vendor as well, but they are an established B&M store too. In fact, like you- I honestly feel much MORE comfortable giving my business to one of these PS vendors that has a high volume of web feedback. Better information, larger selection, lower prices (in most cases) and imo- comparable if not better customer service. Also, I'd actually feel less comfortable with a 'new B&M' store in your area as they are not an established business that has proven itself to have the quality, service and staying power to be around in the future.
Oh, sorry, they aren't new to business, they've been in the community for probably at least 30 years, it's just the first time we went to that store, so new to us!

I'm in Southern Wisconsin. Chicago is about 2 hours away, though we wouldn't have any free weekends to make a trip down there until probably December, so I don't really think that's much of an option. I mean, it is an option, but I don't think it's the route we're going to go... I have heard some really positive things about a place in town that only does custom work, and a few of my coworkers got their rings there, so I'm going to make an appointment to check it out.

Someone asked what kind of setting I'm interested in. Basically this:
http://www.brilliantearth.com/Luna-Ring-Platinum-BE1PB1-475/?show_setting_tab=true but maybe with an oval stone. Do you guys think that would look nice? Yes, I know WF and BG have essentially the same setting, I am well aware ;-) It's not that it needs to be custom because it is so out of the ordinary, it's just not something we've seen pre-made around here.
 

smokey99

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
124
A solitaire oval bezel would look great, I think. Do you want it plain or with a milgrained bezel?

I think that shouldn't be very difficult for your jeweler of choice to find.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,507
Honestly, I would try to talk your BF into shopping on line. Like someone already said, most B&Ms dont have ovals in stock.
You will be able to see more ovals on line. When you find one you like you can have it shipped to an appraiser for their
evaluation and for you to see. It will cost you to have it sent and evaluated but you have a much bigger selection on-line.

Or...you can work with someone like Good Old Gold who will bring in some stones and video them for you and compare and
contrast them so you can determine which one you like.

James Allen has access (and pics) of lots of ovals. They also have a setting like you are looking for. If you can give us some
stats of what you are interested in we might be able to point you to some stones...and the extra bonus for shopping on-line
is that stones usually cost less than B&M stores (mention that to your BF :cheeky: ...maybe that will get his attention).

http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-ringssolitairering/item_57-7668.asp

Edit - like for exampe if you were looking for a 1 carat thses 2 look nice
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/D-VS2-Premium-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1396754.asp
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Oval-Diamond-1398219.asp
 

mjertl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 9, 2011
Messages
203
those both are gorgeous stones, thank you for the suggestions! right in our price range too...
went to a different store in town today and they were wonderful. all their stones are GIA graded with excellent cut, and they had several ovals in stock. I saw a 0.82 oval that was 7.5 x 5 mm (approx - I can't remember the EXACT numbers) SI1 (eye clean even to my picky eyes at 2 inches away) G (couldn't see any color in various light) and it was gorgeous. no ugly bowtie, sparked like mad. it was about $4500. they're had a few more in stock that I liked a little less, but they're going to bring more in for both of us to look at on Friday morning (hopefully slightly larger. They had a 1.12 carat in the store that was amazing - it sparkled like crazy and had an excellent presence on my finger. but it was an I color, and I could tell, and it would bother me... plus, it was already set in a ring, and was only being sold in the ring (a halo made especially for it. it was pretty, but not what I wanted)) - I am very excited! I left feeling so happy about the shopping process, and I really trusted the person I was working with, so that was awesome. getting a good feeling from and trusting the person youre working with is so important!
 
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