Is this a legitimate padparadscha colour?

[Sydneyphoenix]

Just looking through some eye-candies at Natural Sapphire company and one of their “padparadscha” sapphires caught my eyes.

The colour seemed too pink for me, not enough of orange component. It comes with a certificate from a Sri Lankan lab, but don’t know if it will pass GIA or GRS padparadscha test. The colour is pleasant enough to the eye btw. And no, I’m nit thinking of buying, not anytime soon anyway.

A couple more photos:

 

[peacechick]

The window is too big, I would pass on it for that reason.

 

[demantoidz]

A quick scroll through their IG shows it (on the right) alongside what is, imo, a less pad-like sapphire that they also consider pad (center).

The Natural Sapphire Company | Custom Engagement Rings on Instagram: "What is Padparadscha color? The color range of a padparadscha falls within a mix of 2 colors: pink and orange. Some padparadscha sapphires are not evenly salmon colored, but ra

183 likes, 9 comments - thenaturalsapphireco on May 28, 2021: "What is Padparadscha color? The color range of a padparadscha falls within a mix of 2 colors: pink and orange. Some padparadscha sapphires are not evenly salmon colored, but rather color zoned with pink and yellow. Yet after...

www.instagram.com

I think when compared to the center one, the orange modifier in the one on the right (the one you posted) is more pronounced/obvious. I have no idea what GRS/GIA/Other labs would call it.
I'd say the one on the right/the one you posted is a pad though not my preferred color, but the center one is not a pad (but maybe labs would call it one, who knows).

If you scroll down to figure 11 you can see what different experienced dealers consider pad color... its very subjective

Padparadscha Sapphire & the Ownership of Words

An examination of what defines padparadscha sapphire, from early times to that developed by the Laboratory Manual Harmonisation Committee (LMHC) in 2005.

www.lotusgemology.com

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Interesting topic.
Personally I favor the more pink orange-ish range of pad colors.
But this stone is possibly a little dark in tone - especially after it h=gets a recut (which it desperately needs).
But first you would want to see the stone immersed in a high RI liquid as the color may be in a band that would be removed.

 

[Cerulean]

Looks quite brown and disastrous cut

color preference is subjective - (i.e. brown in itself is not bad, but it is not ideal if you are paying a pad premium)...

there is also such a thing as a flattering photo for a sapphire. it might be "pleasing to the eye" in a lightbox (I'm wildly guessing about how they take photos) but I expect this will be mauve-y and quite underwhelming in person - unless you have seen it and can confirm that is not the case

if you share more about what you are looking for maybe we can help you find something better

 

[Cerulean]

Interesting topic.
Personally I favor the more pink orange-ish range of pad colors.
But this stone is possibly a little dark in tone - especially after it h=gets a recut (which it desperately needs).
But first you would want to see the stone immersed in a high RI liquid as the color may be in a band that would be removed.

i find the really pale, pink-leaning pads the prettiest myself. thankfully for my wallet, that color tends to be indistinguishable from my skin as pads even off the mark from trade ideal are just outrageously expensive

this is perhaps a digression but i have been curious if that was due to true rarity, demand, or just supply chain problems...

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

i find the really pale, pink-leaning pads the prettiest myself. thankfully for my wallet, that color tends to be indistinguishable from my skin as pads even off the mark from trade ideal are just outrageously expensive

this is perhaps a digression but i have been curious if that was due to true rarity, demand, or just supply chain problems...

I think the color world is actually overstocked at present.
With few to no trade fairs, especially in Asia, I get the vibe from suppliers that many are cash strapped.
Most gem activity is cottage home based cutting and trading with outdoor small artisanal mining.

Unlike diamonds, many mines closed and most are polished in ten story factories in Surat, all severely bashed about by Covid.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

A quick scroll through their IG shows it (on the right) alongside what is, imo, a less pad-like sapphire that they also consider pad (center).

The Natural Sapphire Company | Custom Engagement Rings on Instagram: "What is Padparadscha color? The color range of a padparadscha falls within a mix of 2 colors: pink and orange. Some padparadscha sapphires are not evenly salmon colored, but ra

183 likes, 9 comments - thenaturalsapphireco on May 28, 2021: "What is Padparadscha color? The color range of a padparadscha falls within a mix of 2 colors: pink and orange. Some padparadscha sapphires are not evenly salmon colored, but rather color zoned with pink and yellow. Yet after...

www.instagram.com

I think when compared to the center one, the orange modifier in the one on the right (the one you posted) is more pronounced/obvious. I have no idea what GRS/GIA/Other labs would call it.
I'd say the one on the right/the one you posted is a pad though not my preferred color, but the center one is not a pad (but maybe labs would call it one, who knows).

If you scroll down to figure 11 you can see what different experienced dealers consider pad color... its very subjective

Padparadscha Sapphire & the Ownership of Words

An examination of what defines padparadscha sapphire, from early times to that developed by the Laboratory Manual Harmonisation Committee (LMHC) in 2005.

www.lotusgemology.com

How about the left one in the picture, I like its colour the best out of the three. I tend to think too intense a colour takes beauty away for pads, medium-intense tone is preferable?

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Looks quite brown and disastrous cut

color preference is subjective - (i.e. brown in itself is not bad, but it is not ideal if you are paying a pad premium)...

there is also such a thing as a flattering photo for a sapphire. it might be "pleasing to the eye" in a lightbox (I'm wildly guessing about how they take photos) but I expect this will be mauve-y and quite underwhelming in person - unless you have seen it and can confirm that is not the case

if you share more about what you are looking for maybe we can help you find something better

I thought I didn’t like the tone being too dark and birdering on brown too.

A good Ceylon pad is on my bucket list, but after an imperial jade >2ct, pigeon-blood Mogok unheated ruby >1ct and a Russian Alexandrite and possibly also no-oil Colombian emerald >1ct so will be a few years, happy enough with my Burmese Cornflower sapphire for now…

@Cerulean Good pads are still cheaper than good rubies!

 

[demantoidz]

How about the left one in the picture, I like its colour the best out of the three. I tend to think too intense a colour takes beauty away for pads, medium-intense tone is preferable?

I like the left the most too but I don't love any of the 3. I can appreciate both pinkish orange and orangey pink, but in both cases I actually prefer intense pads over pastels if they aren't dark:

1.59 ct Padparadscha Sapphire

1.59 ct Padparadscha Sapphire

www.finewatergems.com

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

I like the left the most too but I don't love any of the 3. I can appreciate both pinkish orange and orangey pink, but in both cases I actually prefer intense pads over pastels if they aren't dark:

1.59 ct Padparadscha Sapphire

1.59 ct Padparadscha Sapphire

www.finewatergems.com

I am more for slightly lighter to e, like this…wish it was larger and no-heat

Orangy Pink Natural Padparadscha Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut | .83cts | #13-568 - Gemfix

Natural Orangy Pink Padparadscha Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut, Peach Sapphire Oval Brilliant Cut, GIA Report Pad

gemfix.com

 

[Cerulean]

I think the color world is actually overstocked at present.
With few to no trade fairs, especially in Asia, I get the vibe from suppliers that many are cash strapped.
Most gem activity is cottage home based cutting and trading with outdoor small artisanal mining.

Unlike diamonds, many mines closed and most are polished in ten story factories in Surat, all severely bashed about by Covid.

That’s tough. I was hoping that wasn’t the case but I’m not surprised. Thanks for sharing what you know..

 

[Cerulean]

I am more for slightly lighter to e, like this…wish it was larger and no-heat

Orangy Pink Natural Padparadscha Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut | .83cts | #13-568 - Gemfix

Natural Orangy Pink Padparadscha Sapphire Oval Portuguese Cut, Peach Sapphire Oval Brilliant Cut, GIA Report Pad

gemfix.com

If it were larger and no heat, it would be triple the cost most likely! It’s pretty though, I see why you like it.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

To

If it were larger and no heat, it would be triple the cost most likely! It’s pretty though, I see why you like it.

Totally, given 2carat unheated with a shade lighter is going for $6K USD this colour in unheated 2ct would’ve been $8-10K.

 

[nutellakitty]

The cutting is weird

 

[LD]

To my eyes, no. It looks too brown. Also, it might be worth you checking out this seller by doing a search. Personally I have only bought from them once (a very long time ago) and it wasn't a great experience.

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

True, not a good pad specimen and I see many do not like the company. The pad I am eyeing for when I become rich is from elsewhere…

 

[VividRed]

True, not a good pad specimen and I see many do not like the company. The pad I am eyeing for when I become rich is from elsewhere…

My “when I become rich” stone is a 5 carat unheated, top quality (2.5/75 in AGL terms) Mogok ruby. Rather “if” than “when” though

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

My “when I become rich” stone is a 5 carat unheated, top quality (2.5/75 in AGL terms) Mogok ruby. Rather “if” than “when” though

That kind of ruby is on bucket list, but I’m happy to settle for 1-2ct for ~$15K USD. Five other items in the list and have only one if them thus far-sort of!

 

[VividRed]

That kind of ruby is on bucket list, but I’m happy to settle for 1-2ct for ~$15K USD. Five other items in the list and have only one if them thus far-sort of!

Fine (2.5/75) unheated Burmese ruby will cost 15-20k per carat until the 2ct mark, where it jumps to 35-50k per ct. With 15k you might just about find a 1ct. stone. Unless you have access to wholesale (i.e parcel purchases) but you need a whole different type of cash to play in that field, and you compete with the Chinese who have endless pockets and dibs on more or less all the Mogok production.

Fine Burmese rubies are expensive

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Fine (2.5/75) unheated Burmese ruby will cost 15-20k per carat until the 2ct mark, where it jumps to 35-50k per ct. With 15k you might just about find a 1ct. stone. Unless you have access to wholesale (i.e parcel purchases) but you need a whole different type of cash to play in that field, and you compete with the Chinese who have endless pockets and dibs on more or less all the Mogok production.

Fine Burmese rubies are expensive

They are indeed expensive. May have to settle for 3-3.5/70 to fit the budget…

So you are thinking 200K for a stone?! I’m thinking of keeping my lifetime gemstone portfolio to under $100K lolz. That’s including a small Russian Alexandrite, a padparadscha, no-oil Colombian Emerald and >2ct imperial jadeite as well as Mogok ruby…guess I can dream on.

 

[VividRed]

For top quality, 5ct will be anywhere between 200-500k per carat

That’s why I said it’s rather an “if” than a “when” for me lol

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

For top quality, 5ct will be anywhere between 200-500k per carat

That’s why I said it’s rather an “if” than a “when” for me lol

2.14 "Classic" Mogok Unheated Burma Ruby :: National Gemstone

Unheated Classic Burma rubies are impossible to find in today's international gem world market. The best available unheated Burmese gems are old stones originally purchased by collectors. The 70% red makes this gem vivid or stoplight red. AGL graded 70% red are considered true "pigeon blood"...

www.preciousgemstones.com

So you want domething like this, just bigger? Even if price/carat doesn’t go up-it will-we are looking at $175K USD…

 

[VividRed]

2.14 "Classic" Mogok Unheated Burma Ruby :: National Gemstone

Unheated Classic Burma rubies are impossible to find in today's international gem world market. The best available unheated Burmese gems are old stones originally purchased by collectors. The 70% red makes this gem vivid or stoplight red. AGL graded 70% red are considered true "pigeon blood"...

www.preciousgemstones.com

So you want domething like this, just bigger? Even if price/carat doesn’t go up-it will-we are looking at $175K USD…

Yes. I have my eyes on that exact ruby as well. Keep in mind, this stone is MI1-MI2. Top rating in ruby is LI1-LI2 and would easily go for 50k per carat (IF clarity exists but forget it, there might be 1 or 2 in the world in the 5ct+ range and will never be sold).

I have bought from this vendor (1.01ct, 3/80, MI1) and it is a fabulous ruby to me

 

[Sydneyphoenix]

Yes. I have my eyes on that exact ruby as well. Keep in mind, this stone is MI1-MI2. Top rating in ruby is LI1-LI2 and would easily go for 50k per carat (IF clarity exists but forget it, there might be 1 or 2 in the world in the 5ct+ range and will never be sold).

I have bought from this vendor (1.01ct, 3/80, MI1) and it is a fabulous ruby to me

How about the red stone in your avatar, that’s an aspirational one too?

 

[VividRed]

How about the red stone in your avatar, that’s an aspirational one too?

Yes, that is the Graff Ruby - about 8ct, sold at auction for USD 1m per carat. Certainly the most expensive ruby per carat ever sold in that size (what I call size-adjusted price per carat, or price per squared carat). The Sunrise ruby sold at a higher price per carat, I think 1.2m, but it was a 25 carat stone - orders of magnitude more rare than an 8 carat stone. Considering this, it “should” have sold at a much higher price, but it didn’t. It’s price per sq.ct. is 48k while for the Graff ruby it was 125k. This is not a metric anyone uses by the way, just my way of comparing prices. It means little to nothing though, there is not enough available trade data to test it’s usability it just tells me that the Graff Ruby is comparatively 2.5x more expensive than the Sunrise ruby, when you adjust for size