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Is this a good deal?

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
Hello everyone. I'm new to these forums although i've been lurking for about a week as I try to find the right engagement ring. My brother's friend sells jewelry in Fullerton and he told me to stop by his shop. I picked out the setting and diamond and bought it for $5400. The diamond is EGL certified:

Weight: .88CT
Shape and cut: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 6.55 - 6.37 X 3.54mm
Depth: 54.8%
Table: 66%
Crown: 8.8%
Pavillion: 43.8%
Girdle: Thin to Medium
Culet: Small
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Good
Clarity: VS1
Color Grade: F
Fluoresence: Faint Blue

I just wanted to know how well I did. The setting is 18k White Gold, with the diamonds having a color grade of G and SI clarity and a total carat weight of .48. He offered to re-size it for free if i needed to have it done and also said he would re-plate it for me for free for the rest of my life. Let me know if you think the purchase was a solid one or if i need to go and get my money back. He's not a shady jeweler and would refund me my money if i ended up not liking the ring.



 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
OMG. NO. That's a super duper shallow diamond. The spread is the equivalent spread of a 1.00 carat diamond. Depth is 54.8! That means you are giving up a TON of sparkle, brilliance, scintillation and light return and that your diamond appears dark. BAD BAD DIAMOND CHOICE. Plus it's completely out of round. WOW. I'm sorry that's a terrible diamond.

http://ideal-scope.com/1.using_reference_chart.asp See what this shows about super shallow diamonds.

RETURN IT IMMEDIATELY!
 

TimMD

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
267
Yikes, please return that thing immediately! I think this is the classic case of someone letting us think 3 of the Cs are good (carat, color, clarity) although EGL but the cut (most important of the Cs) just being a hot mess. With that budget, you can get a better stone from one of the online PS vendors I think. Good luck!
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,507
Please return it if you can...the numbers for that stone are all off.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
yes...please please return immediately. the numbers on that stone are not good.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
http://www.eternitydiamonds.com/engagement-rings/diamond-engagement-ring/Evangeline-Round-Bezel-Set-Diamond-by-Eternity-%28.39-ctw.%29-155.htm Gorgeous setting (10% off right now)

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca Excellent cut (get Idealscope from the vendor and ask if it is eyeclean) potential at a very budget friendly price: $3331

EGL is not accurate on color especially: your F is almost certainly a G and could be an H in GIA grading (especially if it is not an EGL USA certificate).

All of it comes in at $1000 under what you paid. Plus it's got a GIA certificate. And it will sparkle and shine and knock her socks off.
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
I would like to thank everyone responding so quickly. I will be calling the jeweler in a few minutes. I didn't know buying a ring could be so frustrating!!!
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
I'm not a round expert, but I have to say that's one of the least well-cut rounds I've ever seen. You can see the fish-eye in the picture. The HCA actually won't even give it a score because the crown angle is so small. It says "Low crown angle can result in chipping of the girdle. Should not be considered for purchase." Please return it! It's certainly not a good price at all given the poor cut.

ETA: I see you've beaten me to the punch. Good choice!
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
I just finished talking to the jeweler. He said we could look at more stones with better proportion tomorrow. Interestingly enough, he said that despite the numbers being off the diamond "still has lots brilliance."
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
The setting is beautiful. I'm torn now. I might get my money back and buy online. How much should I have paid for the ring considering the cut?
 

jstarfireb

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 24, 2007
Messages
6,232
falcor|1319072751|3043873 said:
The setting is beautiful. I'm torn now. I might get my money back and buy online. How much should I have paid for the ring considering the cut?
You can get an equally beautiful setting online. I would definitely do that. It's hard to say how much I would have paid for the ring, because I wouldn't buy a poorly cut diamond (I'd rather have no diamond at all and go for a colored gemstone). So basically I would have paid only as much as the setting is worth. Maybe $1500-2000? I just did a super-quick search with one online jeweler, and here are some settings that are somewhat similar:

http://www.whiteflash.com/engagemen...gs/halo-prong-diamond-engagement-ring-521.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/engagement-rings/diamond-settings/isabella-diamond-engagement-ring-678.htm - shown with a cushion but I'm sure they could modify it for a round

Also check out the setting Gypsy posted.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,117
:sick:

Super shallow, super shallow crown, thin girdle - I'd wager even with that setting a chip is inevitable. And that's ignoring other concerns...

Go to (a different!) jewellery store. Compare this stone to others of different proportions (do you have a Jared nearby, or a Hearts on Fire dealer? They often have a pretty good variety), and go from there - the best way is to see the differences for yourself!


ETA: ditto PPs, and those are some nice options!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
falcor|1319072567|3043869 said:
I just finished talking to the jeweler. He said we could look at more stones with better proportion tomorrow. Interestingly enough, he said that despite the numbers being off the diamond "still has lots brilliance."

Okay so. Here's the facts:

I don't think ANY reputable vendor would even try to sell that diamond as "brilliant".

Did he overcharge you? Lets be generous and give you $1,200 for that setting. It's not the same quality as the ones fro WF as they use top quality melee and make each setting to order.

Here's a .9 carat diamond by EGL at F color and VS1 http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=94843240&flag=ps and it's 3,450 It slightly larger and is also better cut than that sucker you have so it's worth more.


That puts you at 4,800. And that's without the discount for the cut (which honestly,no PS vendor is stocking a diamond that bad, so I couldn't even FIND one in stock that badly cut to give me a value on it).

He's telling you it's got "brilliance". What happened to sparkle, brightness, scintillation and light return?

You are going to have to double, triple and quadruple check everything he says. Because it's not just what he says... it's what he DOESN'T say. He omits. Is that the same as lying No, but when you are a novice you want a vendor that tells you everything outright instead of you having to play twenty questions with him to get the truth.

If you work with this guy it just seems like you are making the process harder on yourself.

There is a store called Alterman's in your area (Fullerton, CA). Try them if you aren't comfortable buying online.

I have nothing invested. I don't get paid and this is just my hobby.

You are being taken for a ride. I'd get off the ride if it were me.
 

TimMD

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
267
falcor|1319072751|3043873 said:
The setting is beautiful. I'm torn now. I might get my money back and buy online. How much should I have paid for the ring considering the cut?

If I were you, this is exactly what you should do. I am not sure I would trust any jeweler that sold you this stone and still tries to contend "it has a lot of brilliance" I know we can only see pictures but I would have to greatly disagree with that comment. And to me, it not a price to pay but it having something that is worth what it is (this being an engagement ring) and IMO, that is a bad stone from a likely less than trustworthy source.
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
Gypsy|1319074147|3043898 said:
falcor|1319072567|3043869 said:
I just finished talking to the jeweler. He said we could look at more stones with better proportion tomorrow. Interestingly enough, he said that despite the numbers being off the diamond "still has lots brilliance."

Okay so. Here's the facts:

I don't think ANY reputable vendor would even try to sell that diamond as "brilliant".

Did he overcharge you? Lets be generous and give you $1,200 for that setting. It's not the same quality as the ones fro WF as they use top quality melee and make each setting to order.

Here's a .9 carat diamond by EGL at F color and VS1 http://www.abazias.com/database/NewDiamondInfo.asp?stock=94843240&flag=ps and it's 3,450 It slightly larger and is also better cut than that sucker you have so it's worth more.


That puts you at 4,800. And that's without the discount for the cut (which honestly,no PS vendor is stocking a diamond that bad, so I couldn't even FIND one in stock that badly cut to give me a value on it).

He's telling you it's got "brilliance". What happened to sparkle, brightness, scintillation and light return?

You are going to have to double, triple and quadruple check everything he says. Because it's not just what he says... it's what he DOESN'T say. He omits. Is that the same as lying No, but when you are a novice you want a vendor that tells you everything outright instead of you having to play twenty questions with him to get the truth.

If you work with this guy it just seems like you are making the process harder on yourself.

There is a store called Alterman's in your area (Fullerton, CA). Try them if you aren't comfortable buying online.

I have nothing invested. I don't get paid and this is just my hobby.

You are being taken for a ride. I'd get off the ride if it were me.
Thank you Gypsy. You've been extremely helpful. I will go back as soon as I can (probably Friday) and get my money back.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Here are some cheat sheet specifications for round brilliant specs/numbers ( PRINT THIS OUT AND TAKE THIS WITH YOU WHEN SHOPPING IN PERSON):

depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
table - 54- 57%
crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
polish and symmetry - very good and above

note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

Also, configurations depend on each other. A little give here can still work with a little take there.

With that said, here''s a "Cliff''s Notes" for staying near Tolkowsky/ideal angles with GIA reports (their numbers are rounded): A crown angle of 34.0, 34.5 or 35.0 is usually safe with a 40.8 pavilion angle. If pavilion angle = 40.6 lean toward a 34.5-35.0 crown. If pavilion angle = 41 lean toward a 34.0-34.5 crown.

GIA "EX" in cut is great at its heart, but it ranges a bit wider than some people prefer, particularly in deep combinations (pavilion > 41 with crown > 35).


ETA; Above copied from Lorelei and John Pollard.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
falcor|1319074925|3043907 said:
Thank you Gypsy. You've been extremely helpful. I will go back as soon as I can (probably Friday) and get my money back.

Welcome! I look forward to seeing you end up with a well cut beautiful stone in a gorgeous setting for your lady! That particular ring is just not it. Trial and error, at least you got a return policy. I've seen people end up with shoddy goods without a return policy and that's just terrible!
 

crbl999

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 21, 2010
Messages
447
Ditto what everyone else has said. The cheat sheet is nice but you should also use HCA, IS images and your eyes if you are able to view the stone in person. I would stick to stones graded by GIA and AGS. What are your minimum diamond specs? If you are not sure I would encourage you to look at HOF stones or Jared's Peerless stones and look at different clarities, colors, and sizes.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
Listen to me.

There are two problems with your purchase.

The first is that you paid more than you needed to for what you bought.

The second, and much more damning problem in my opinion, is that what you bought is one of the most poorly cut diamonds you could possibly buy. Your jeweler is not looking out for your best interests in this purchase and I highly recommend you return the stone and start over with another vendor, either one local to you or an online vendor. Either way we can help you out.

Do not listen to him when he tells you the stone is good "despite the numbers". The photo that you posted very clearly shows us that the stone is not well cut, it has a dark circle in the middle of the stone and other red flags for those who know cut. The thing to remember is ALL diamonds will sparkle a little and look pretty under jewelery store ligthing and when they are sparkling clean. But the diamond you purchased will pale in comparison to a well cut diamond, and will look worse than it presently does the moment it gets dirty.

Look for diamonds graded by GIA or AGS and with cut grades of EX and 0 respectively. If you must, you can also look for GIA Very Good and AGS 1 cut grades. Even those will look amazing compared to the diamond you have.

The fact that your jewler a) sold this diamond to you and b) is trying t oconvince you tel keep it tells me that he is either supremely ignorant about diamonds or is trying to screw you. Neither is a good characteristic for a diamond dealer. Get you money. Move on. Please.
 

dreamer_dachsie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2007
Messages
24,364
I want to add that all the information provided is good, but you can also simply look for a stone with a GIA report and Ex cut grade. That is ALL you need to know to guarantee you will have a very nice diamond. If you want a spectacular one, yes you need to use more tools (inclusing your eyes). But if you want to keep it simple, GIA Ex. Millions of stones out there with that cut grade. Find one ;-)
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
I really hope you take everyone's advice and return this ring.

But I REALLY came in here to say that I love The Neverending Story.
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
Dreamer_D|1319077911|3043940 said:
Listen to me.

There are two problems with your purchase.

The first is that you paid more than you needed to for what you bought.

The second, and much more damning problem in my opinion, is that what you bought is one of the most poorly cut diamonds you could possibly buy. Your jeweler is not looking out for your best interests in this purchase and I highly recommend you return the stone and start over with another vendor, either one local to you or an online vendor. Either way we can help you out.

Do not listen to him when he tells you the stone is good "despite the numbers". The photo that you posted very clearly shows us that the stone is not well cut, it has a dark circle in the middle of the stone and other red flags for those who know cut. The thing to remember is ALL diamonds will sparkle a little and look pretty under jewelery store ligthing and when they are sparkling clean. But the diamond you purchased will pale in comparison to a well cut diamond, and will look worse than it presently does the moment it gets dirty.

Look for diamonds graded by GIA or AGS and with cut grades of EX and 0 respectively. If you must, you can also look for GIA Very Good and AGS 1 cut grades. Even those will look amazing compared to the diamond you have.

The fact that your jewler a) sold this diamond to you and b) is trying t oconvince you tel keep it tells me that he is either supremely ignorant about diamonds or is trying to screw you. Neither is a good characteristic for a diamond dealer. Get you money. Move on. Please.
Thank you Dreamer. I'm going back Friday to get my money back. $5400 is a lot of money that I've worked hard to earn.

Also, I would like to thank everyone for their advice and for taking the time to help me out.
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
Haven|1319078514|3043950 said:
I really hope you take everyone's advice and return this ring.

But I REALLY came in here to say that I love The Neverending Story.
Yesss! That movie made me want to read books!
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,405
falcor|1319071250|3043852 said:
I would like to thank everyone responding so quickly. I will be calling the jeweler in a few minutes. I didn't know buying a ring could be so frustrating!!!
wellll,you broke the first three rules when it comes to buy jewelry.

#1-NEVER buy from a friend of a brother.
#2-NEVER buy from a friend of an uncle.
#3-NEVER buy from a friend of a friend.
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 3, 2004
Messages
32,405
falcor|1319072567|3043869 said:
I just finished talking to the jeweler. He said we could look at more stones with better proportion tomorrow. Interestingly enough, he said that despite the numbers being off the diamond "still has lots brilliance."
tell him that if he sells this diamond he will receive " 20 yrs to life " in prison.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,507
Get your money back. Do not let this guy talk you into looking at more stones with him. He has already lost your trust
by stiffing you with a stone that is so poorly cut (and over-charging you for it too). He is not interested in a mutally fair
deal (you get a beautiful stone and he makes a resonable profit). He is interested in how much of your money he can
stuff in his pocket.
 

Frenchcut

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 1, 2010
Messages
280
We should congratulate you on one thing: you came to this forum before it was too late and took the right decsion!It was one great initiative :appl:

I won't repeat what others have already said, just return that diamond and look for another jeweller. I don't know whose friend this jeweller is, but he's definitely not yours...I can't imagine professionals trying to sell such a poorly cut stone for that price.

I know that not everybody can afford to spend a lot of money on a ring and I do respect that, but a professional jeweller should not take advantage of the situation to sell such a poor diamond to someone who doesn't know better. It's really shocking :-o

I wish you all the best in your hunt for a beautiful ring, hope you keep us posted and show us some pictures once you've found it!
 

Haven

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2007
Messages
13,166
falcor|1319082722|3043987 said:
Haven|1319078514|3043950 said:
I really hope you take everyone's advice and return this ring.
But I REALLY came in here to say that I love The Neverending Story.
Yesss! That movie made me want to read books!
:love: Love it.
You don't know this, but I'm an English prof who primarily teaches development reading to under-prepared students. Your post made my day!

****Back to your regularly scheduled thread.****
 

falcor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2011
Messages
11
**UPDATE**
I called him the same day I made this post to let him know I was dissatisfied with my ring. He told me to go back and that he would have some stones available. I went in today and he showed me two different stones with the same carat weight as the original (.88). I chose the following stone:

Measurements: 6.17 - 6.12 X 3.81mm

Cut Grade: EGL Ideal Plus
Clarity Grade: VVS2
Color Grade: E

Depth: 62%
Table: 57%
Crown: 35.5
Pavillion: 41
Polish: Excellent
Symmerty: Excellent
Fluoresence: None
Comments: GIA 14935182
Hearts & Arrows

He said it would be $500 more, which would total to $5900. I took it home. Before everyone calls me a fool, there's one thing you have to understand. My brother's boss buys a lot of jewelry from this guy. When I said my brother's friend in the original post, I actually should have said acquaintance, as my brother goes in to pick up jewelry for his boss on occasion. My brother's boss has even connected this jeweler to his professional baseball playing friends. He does not want to lose that business. He probably thought he was going to get away with screwing me over on the first ring but once I complained and brought up the cut issue I think he felt he needed to make it up to me in order to continue his business relationship with my brother's boss. Of course, after taking it home I was still skeptical about the whole thing, and wondered if he had maybe switched out the diamond I thought I was purchasing with one of lesser quality. So I took it to an appraiser in Whittier. He said the diamond matches the EGL USA report. Still, I want to show you guys the new diamond. Let me know what you think!

 

thbmok

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Messages
891
That looks much better! The numbers and grading appear to match the old GIA report as well. IMO well worth the extra $500.
 
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