Is this a good 2 ct round for 8k?

[ac117]

It sounds like you REALLY don’t get it…..Pricescopers value CUT above anything else and you have continuously contradicted that in search of what you want. It sounds like you’ve made up your mind. If YOU cannot perceive a difference in cut/sparkle/performance, then buy what YOU think is best within YOUR stated budget. We’ve TRIED helping you and you keep upping the standards (size and color), lowering your budget (in another thread it was 12k now it’s 10k) and making it very difficult.

ALL of us here compromise in some way, shape or form to get what we want – but that something is never a huge sacrifice in cut. I said it before and I’ll say it again, there are plenty of people with large rocks that look like lifeless pieces of frozen spit. Good luck to you and lots of luck to your gf.

 

[ChristineRose]

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

 

[JMK]

As per all of your comments, we talked about getting a lower color (below J) and setting it in yellow or rose but it’s really not what she wants. If it was my choice I would just forget about this whole ring thing and get her a nice Rolex but unfortunately that’s not what she wants so my search continues…

Here's an idea: since she knows she's getting a ring, why not tell her the budget and ask her to choose whatever she wants within that budget?

 

[Dancing Fire]

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

That is a horrible stone!...

 

[ac117]

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

That is a horrible stone!...

DF, skim the thread! That's what he's aiming for

 

[ChristineRose]

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

That is a horrible stone!...

DF, skim the thread! That's what he's aiming for

I just searched for insanely spready stones and picked the best of them. I'm actually pretty pleased at what I came up with. A lot of these stones seem to be older and too sloppy to be recut.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

That is a horrible stone!...

DF, skim the thread! That's what he's aiming for

Why would anybody want a poorly cut stone?..

 

[Gypsy]

Not to mention that crown coupled with that girdle is a huge chipping risk.

 

[OoohShiny]

OP: It's clear to me to that you simply have different priorities than most of the posters on this board. Most people here will tell you to never compromise on cut, and you are clearly willing to do so considering the stone above in order to hit your size requirement. You are not going to get the affirmation that you are looking for here so I think this thread has become a waste of everyone's time. You've already heard a lot of advice, and you've decided to put it all aside. It doesn't mean that you're wrong or that the board is wrong; it just means that you have a different set of values. There's nothing wrong with favoring size above all.

Good luck in your search.

I think this is an accurate post. If you want size over everything else, usa1983, that is your priority and you don't have to take the advice offered here.

We will, however, all think you're insane

I understand that jeweler’s lighting enhances things but wouldn’t it enhance EXCELLENT cuts to look really AWESOME? It’s just hard to imagine for me to what a good cut vs excellent cut does to a diamond as I really can’t tell them apart unlike the color which makes a huge difference below J.

The only reason the posters on this forum push Cut so much as the most important thing to consider when buying a diamond is because they know just how good Ideal and Super-Ideal cut stones really are, and it is incredibly frustrating that you (and all the other Average Joes on the street) will end up with something that makes you go 'meh' rather than 'wow'.

The 'good' and 'very good' stones you are looking at are nowhere near how good an AGS000 or a really great GIA XXX stone with a <2 HCA score can look - and because you've not experienced stones in either of these qualities (either in 'standard' 000/XXX flavour or one of the branded 'Super-Ideal' cuts from WF, BGD, CBI, etc) you have no benchmark from which to compare the stones you are looking in the local shops.

All you are seeing in local shops is different variations of 'alright' stones. What you need to see is a top-cut stone or two - the sort of diamond that makes you go 'wow' when you see the scintillation and fire shooting out of it under spotlights, and see it light up edge-to-edge bright-white in flat lighting conditions, like in an office with uplighters instead of strip lights.


Think about it like this - imagine that diamond is the same as glass. A piece of window glass can be colourless and internally flawless and can come in as big a size as you want. But its 'cut' means that all it does is transmit light straight through it.

What you want is to cut the material (be it glass, diamond, CZ, whatever) so that it reflects as much light back to the eye as possible. The best cut round diamonds (AGS000, low HCA score GIA XXX) will do this, but they need a certain depth-to-width ratio to get the angles right to reflect the light. The average cuts on the street will not - they will be cut too shallow or too deep to perform well, and leak light straight through, like that piece of window glass.

Do you want a piece of window glass?

For eight thousand dollars?


All of the recommended vendors on here operate a 'trial period' policy, where you have x number of days to see what a stone looks like at home and in the lighting you experience day-to-day.

What you should do is find a top-cut stone from one of them, in the colour/clarity specs you want, within the $8k budget you have, and put it on a credit card. It will then arrive at your house a short while later.

It will be smaller in size than she wants. BUT... it will mean you can both see what you should be looking for when diamond shopping.

And you can show it to your friends to ask what they think.

You can even take the stone with you to compare it side-by-side to the local stones. (Take the friends, preferably good ones who will be blunt with you, so they can offer their opinion too.)


It is my opinion that a SuperIdeal or even just a plain old great GIAXXX/AGS000 stone will blow the local stones out of the water performance-wise.

And if, after seeing how much better performance you can get by internet shopping here instead of buying locally, you still would prefer a large stone that does not perform as well, you can return the stone to the vendor and purchase the stone you like locally.

It's a win-win situation - you learn what to look for, you can directly compare the best cut available to what you are seeing locally, and you can appreciate the trade-off you are making between Cut performance and size, all at no risk to your capital.


And, as I have already said earlier, if you do decide to go with the smaller, better performing stone, the excellent trade-in policies of whichever recommended vendor you choose will mean you will not lose any money on the stone - you can put the full value towards the bigger stone that she wants when you have some more money available.

If you buy locally, though, the trade-in policy is likely to be crap and cost you money (if they even have one...).


I personally don't see a down-side to this plan. The worst that can happen is she gets an amazing performing stone and has to exercise patience for a little while until you've (both?) saved up for the larger stone she ultimately wants to get.

The best that can happen if you buy locally is that you get an average-at-best performing stone at a price that is overcharging what it is really worth, in all likelyhood. The worst that can happen is that you end up with a dull, lifeless, cloudy lump of carbon with little sparkle unless standing under the jewellers' special lights, with no way to change it or upgrade unless you are willing to lose money on the poor trade-in offer you will most likely be given and then spend more on another over-priced, average-performing stone locally.


Honestly - just do it. Order a SuperIdeal on a credit card, experience what it is we are talking about, then go back to your local vendor(s) with the education and experience you have gained (and a top performing stone in your pocket to compare in real-life, side-by-side), so you can understand the differences and trade-offs. If you don't do this, you are just shopping in the dark and you are doing both yourself and your other half an injustice.

Knowledge is power. If you don't do the above to see what you are missing, you are just another Joe on the street about to over-pay for an underperforming rock that the woman you want to spend the rest of your life with might have to put up with until she dies.

As far as other shapes, she was open to cushions but they are a lot less of them and they seem to need a halo setting which cost about 2-2.5k vs a basis solitaire setting for $500 on a round.

Not at all. A cushion solitaire is perfectly acceptable and can look stunning: https://www.pricescope.com/blog/jewel-week-ritani-engagement-ring

 

[AdaBeta27]

This is your purchase, OP, so you get to decide what you'll do. But what Pricescope is telling you is that since this is for a solitaire e-ring, and it's going to be worn daily for years, maybe you should buy smaller buy buy the best light performance. For a right hand ring or cocktail ring or a ring that's only worn occasionally, then maybe those more average performers would suffice. Engagement ring and all that it symbolizes, usually most people don't want to settle for any inferiority in performance there. Wink of High Performance Diamonds says he always lets customers pick with their eyes, and they always gravitate toward the Crafted By Infinity. Hearts On Fire, Good Old Gold Signature, Brian Gavin: Any of those are premium priced for a reason. And it's that cutters put in the extra effort to get superb performance and costs more to do in labor and also in lost carat weight.

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

^ I have a big old diamond that's probably similar to that. No lab report, so I don't know exact proportions. But it has at least a 62% or 63% table if not 65%. And it has "slivery" little lower girdle facets. Depth on mine is about 58%. 56.5% is really in the super-shallow end. I wouldn't call it ugly. But it is different from my Good Old Gold signature H&A. I didn't buy it for an e-ring. I bought it for me because the price was low and it's a big diamond set in a platinum ring, and I like it even though it's an older look. There are fashions in diamonds that came and went, and there have been evolution in diamond cutting that changed the look of the diamonds and instituted the hearts & arrows pattern. Just my uneducated consumer opinion, but there was a time like maybe 1930s to 1950s when they cut diamonds with a shallow crown and a large table, and it seemed like they deliberately aimed for more brilliance than fire.

I don't have photos of my diamond, and it's in my safe deposit box. But here's what I *can* say about it for the benefit of the OP:
1. Shallow depth does goes dark at close range. If she wants to gaze at her diamond on her hand and not see "dark" then a 60/60 diamond is about as shallow and large-table as you ought to go. At arm's length, which is where most bystanders will be seeing it, mine is very brilliant and bright and certainly looks "big." She's should decide whether she wants to wow the spectators, or herself. A superideal cut or a great 60/60 make, which is what PS has been trying to steer you into, will look great at ANY distance, and it won't be as quirky in different lighting or at different distances, etc.
2. With a large table and a low crown, you have a diamond that is far more biased toward brilliance than fire. White light vs. colored flashes. With my stones that are low crown and large table, there is fire, but it's all out around the rim of the diamond. There are no fire flashes out of the table area. You only see fire when the diamond is at an angle. Sometimes my big stone can look a bit "weird, with it's little narrow rim of fire standing out in some lights. If she wants fire, then you need a smaller table like not bigger than 57-58% (probably) and a decent crown angle and crown height to give you some mass above the girdle line to make lots of fire.
3. Those narrow lower girdle facets will give little splinters of light, regardless of whether we're talking modern hearts & arrows or old diamonds. If she prefers chunky broad flashes, then you need wider lgfs, like 77% or 76%, certainly not 80%.

The character of my big diamond, I describe as "silvery. There is a European cut, not Old Eurpoean Cut, that I believe falls somewhere in history between OEC and modern round brilliant. My big diamond was appraised as European Cut. Somewhere back in early PS< there's a post by Rich Sherwood that gives some information on European Cut. My own review of this supposed European Cut diamond I have is: If you wanted to go the opposite direction from the firely deep Old European Cut diamonds, wanted all "silvery" brilliance, little slivery flashes instead of large chunky ones, wanted white light not fire, and brightness, then European Cut is what would be 180 degrees opposite in character.

The modern superideal H&A diamonds are designed to give a balance of fire and brilliance, and be much easier to buy by the "paper" or lab report, and much more consistent performers across a variety of lighting conditions, and at close range and at arm's length, etc.

We have what has been called the Pricescope cheat sheet for rounds. Google that or use the Search here. The farther you veer off the recipe for the modern superideal H&A RB, into Very Good or Good cut and symmetry, big tables, older cutting styles, old estate diamonds, the more you get off into the territory where the diamond "has to be seen" as Diamonds By Lauren (Rockdiamond) likes to say. It's very true that you could find something there that is good enough of a performer for you, or does not fit the tastes of most of Pricescope, but you're going to have a very difficult time buying it online because those diamonds are more unpredictable. $8000 - $10000 can probably get you some older diamond that's not going to be the modern superideal H&A diamond that most of Pricescope would buy. But have bought two superideals, one of which I still own, and also a variety of pawn shop diamonds and that big estate diamond that I bought on ebay. If you like the diamond, and it meets your needs, it's your decision to make. But be aware that sometimes you can own and wear a diamond for a while, and as you get better educated and also you have opportunity to get acquainted with its shortcomings, you might find that you (or she) finds the diamond lacking and then wants something "better." I never used to see tint in my I color diamond. 2 months after I joined PS, I was suddenly noticing the light ivory tint that I had never seen in over 10 years of owning and wearing it.

 

[ChristineRose]

This is your purchase, OP, so you get to decide what you'll do. But what Pricescope is telling you is that since this is for a solitaire e-ring, and it's going to be worn daily for years, maybe you should buy smaller buy buy the best light performance. For a right hand ring or cocktail ring or a ring that's only worn occasionally, then maybe those more average performers would suffice. Engagement ring and all that it symbolizes, usually most people don't want to settle for any inferiority in performance there. Wink of High Performance Diamonds says he always lets customers pick with their eyes, and they always gravitate toward the Crafted By Infinity. Hearts On Fire, Good Old Gold Signature, Brian Gavin: Any of those are premium priced for a reason. And it's that cutters put in the extra effort to get superb performance and costs more to do in labor and also in lost carat weight.

Here's one.

Honking big stone, J color, GIA, VS2, under 10K, trusted vendor. Excellent polish and symmetry, which means it was cut by someone who knew what they were doing. Will be reasonably bright, but fairly flat and not terribly sparkly. Honestly, you could do a lot worse.

^ I have a big old diamond that's probably similar to that. No lab report, so I don't know exact proportions. But it has at least a 62% or 63% table if not 65%. And it has "slivery" little lower girdle facets. Depth on mine is about 58%. 56.5% is really in the super-shallow end. I wouldn't call it ugly. But it is different from my Good Old Gold signature H&A. I didn't buy it for an e-ring. I bought it for me because the price was low and it's a big diamond set in a platinum ring, and I like it even though it's an older look. There are fashions in diamonds that came and went, and there have been evolution in diamond cutting that changed the look of the diamonds and instituted the hearts & arrows pattern. Just my uneducated consumer opinion, but there was a time like maybe 1930s to 1950s when they cut diamonds with a shallow crown and a large table, and it seemed like they deliberately aimed for more brilliance than fire.

I don't have photos of my diamond, and it's in my safe deposit box. But here's what I *can* say about it for the benefit of the OP:
1. Shallow depth does goes dark at close range. If she wants to gaze at her diamond on her hand and not see "dark" then a 60/60 diamond is about as shallow and large-table as you ought to go. At arm's length, which is where most bystanders will be seeing it, mine is very brilliant and bright and certainly looks "big." She's should decide whether she wants to wow the spectators, or herself. A superideal cut or a great 60/60 make, which is what PS has been trying to steer you into, will look great at ANY distance, and it won't be as quirky in different lighting or at different distances, etc.
2. With a large table and a low crown, you have a diamond that is far more biased toward brilliance than fire. White light vs. colored flashes. With my stones that are low crown and large table, there is fire, but it's all out around the rim of the diamond. There are no fire flashes out of the table area. You only see fire when the diamond is at an angle. Sometimes my big stone can look a bit "weird, with it's little narrow rim of fire standing out in some lights. If she wants fire, then you need a smaller table like not bigger than 57-58% (probably) and a decent crown angle and crown height to give you some mass above the girdle line to make lots of fire.
3. Those narrow lower girdle facets will give little splinters of light, regardless of whether we're talking modern hearts & arrows or old diamonds. If she prefers chunky broad flashes, then you need wider lgfs, like 77% or 76%, certainly not 80%.

The character of my big diamond, I describe as "silvery. There is a European cut, not Old Eurpoean Cut, that I believe falls somewhere in history between OEC and modern round brilliant. My big diamond was appraised as European Cut. Somewhere back in early PS< there's a post by Rich Sherwood that gives some information on European Cut. My own review of this supposed European Cut diamond I have is: If you wanted to go the opposite direction from the firely deep Old European Cut diamonds, wanted all "silvery" brilliance, little slivery flashes instead of large chunky ones, wanted white light not fire, and brightness, then European Cut is what would be 180 degrees opposite in character.

The modern superideal H&A diamonds are designed to give a balance of fire and brilliance, and be much easier to buy by the "paper" or lab report, and much more consistent performers across a variety of lighting conditions, and at close range and at arm's length, etc.

We have what has been called the Pricescope cheat sheet for rounds. Google that or use the Search here. The farther you veer off the recipe for the modern superideal H&A RB, into Very Good or Good cut and symmetry, big tables, older cutting styles, old estate diamonds, the more you get off into the territory where the diamond "has to be seen" as Diamonds By Lauren (Rockdiamond) likes to say. It's very true that you could find something there that is good enough of a performer for you, or does not fit the tastes of most of Pricescope, but you're going to have a very difficult time buying it online because those diamonds are more unpredictable. $8000 - $10000 can probably get you some older diamond that's not going to be the modern superideal H&A diamond that most of Pricescope would buy. But have bought two superideals, one of which I still own, and also a variety of pawn shop diamonds and that big estate diamond that I bought on ebay. If you like the diamond, and it meets your needs, it's your decision to make. But be aware that sometimes you can own and wear a diamond for a while, and as you get better educated and also you have opportunity to get acquainted with its shortcomings, you might find that you (or she) finds the diamond lacking and then wants something "better." I never used to see tint in my I color diamond. 2 months after I joined PS, I was suddenly noticing the light ivory tint that I had never seen in over 10 years of owning and wearing it.

Trusted vendor, good return policy. But I still would recommend that the OP seek out a smaller 10K super ideal and compare the two stones in real world lighting.