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Is this a good 2 ct round for 8k?

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
Hello, is this a good stone for the price (my budget is 10k) ? It looks good on hca tool with 1.3 and I am hoping it will be at least an H based on GiA

Per seller:
The color is accurate. The diamond is eye clean and it shows very nice. I can see (only with magnification) a small inclusion in the table area which is not breaking to the surface. I think it is a 50-50 chance that GIA will rate it also as an SI2.

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_5629.jpeg

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flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,171
Since you have been considering non-AGS/GIA stones, please let me ask you this question.

If the stone has a chance for GIA H SI2, wouldn't it be logical for the seller/cutter to send the stone to GIA and pocket additional $2k~5k profit?

The only explanation is that the stone has no chance for GIA H SI2, and is worth no more than 8k the seller is offering.

Non GIA-graded stone, accompanied by a make-you-feel-good appraisal with a replacement value that is 3x the retail. Typical shady business tactic by some diamond vendors.
 

Rivendell

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 23, 2016
Messages
151
I agree with flyingpig. If a deal seems to good to be true it more than likely is. So it will cost 8k but to replace it would cost you 27k. Something is not right here.
 

newjourney

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
72
usa1983|1472919400|4072909 said:
Hello, is this a good stone for the price (my budget is 10k) ? It looks good on hca tool with 1.3 and I am hoping it will be at least an H based on GiA
The only way to be sure is to stick to GIA/AGS graded stones. I wouldn't give much weight to what the seller thinks how this diamond would comparably fare on GIA standards. It's a self-serving opinion.
 

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
Well since the ring is used I assumed it would cost less. I understand that 27k is just an appraiser and means nothing. The seller is offering me 3 day return so you think I should stay away from this one ? Where would you think this diamond stands (color /clarity ) if it was to be sent to Gia?
 

newjourney

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2015
Messages
72
I'd pass. If you have a limited frame of reference on what a good diamond should look like, at least try to stick to stones graded by GIA/AGS. Stones graded by these labs are not all guaranteed to be excellent performers, but it's a good start. This was how I began my search.

It'd be impossible to guess an equivalent GIA color grade for this ring based on a picture. Sure you can return this ring, but it's still a hassle. 10K is a lot of money and there are many choices out there with excellent specs.
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
2,171
usa1983|1472929670|4072943 said:
? Where would you think this diamond stands (color /clarity ) if it was to be sent to Gia?
This is my point. Such question and uncertainty is unnecessary.

Buying a diamond without GIA/AGS report is like buying a house/used car without proper home inspection/vehicle history.

You just walk away. There is no point in estimating where the diamond stands. If you insist, downgrade two levels for both clarity and color. That's H I1/I2, which happens to be traded around 8k.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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3,082
usa1983 said:
Well since the ring is used I assumed it would cost less. I understand that 27k is just an appraiser and means nothing. The seller is offering me 3 day return so you think I should stay away from this one ? Where would you think this diamond stands (color /clarity) if it was to be sent to Gia?
I'm not finding the EGL report number in any of the online databases, apparently because the report is too old to be listed. But I'm confident that diamond wasn't graded by EGL-USA -- whose reports are the only EGL ones I would consider-- because EGL USA split off from EGL International 20 years ago, in 1986, 8 years before the date of the report you posted; plus, that report isn't emblazoned with EGL USA.

I suspect (but have not been able to confirm via Google searches) that the AV in that report number means the report was done by the EGL lab in Tel Aviv, Israel. Even 20+ years ago, EGL Israel had a shoddy reputation, was considered the worst, i.e., the most "generous"/"lenient" of any of the EGL labs.
Also see this 2013 report -- Grading the Graders -- from RapNet; admittedly, the study involved only a small sampling of stones, but I don't know of anyone who would challenge the fact that EGL Israel came in dead last:
http://www.diamonds.net/News/NewsItem.aspx?ArticleID=43417

So I'll join in the chorus of those urging you to walk away... and encourage you to adjust your expectations :))
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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55,611
I agree, I would never consider an $8k 2 ct diamond. You are much better off spending your $8k on a GIA graded 1.25-1.40 ct stone that is well cut and has other good specs.
 

ac117

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 28, 2014
Messages
3,693
diamondseeker2006|1472936042|4072973 said:
I agree, I would never consider an $8k 2 ct diamond. You are much better off spending your $8k on a GIA graded 1.25-1.40 ct stone that is well cut and has other good specs.
+1 but this OP has already received this advice on his 3 other threads (or dropping significantly in color) but they don't seem to understand! :think:
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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55,611
ac117|1472938470|4072984 said:
diamondseeker2006|1472936042|4072973 said:
I agree, I would never consider an $8k 2 ct diamond. You are much better off spending your $8k on a GIA graded 1.25-1.40 ct stone that is well cut and has other good specs.
+1 but this OP has already received this advice on his 3 other threads (or dropping significantly in color) but they don't seem to understand! :think:
Ahhh! I've been out of town this week so I am a little behind around here! Well, we have tried!
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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3,082
So I've been thinking.... I ordinarily wouldn't be suggesting this, but because hitting the 2 ct mark seems to be of prime importance to you, how about contacting Jonathan Weingarten (PS Trade member Rhino) at Good Old Gold
http://www.goodoldgold.com/contacts

and ask him
* if GOG currently has any 2 ct (or close to it) diamonds that have been "clarity enhanced" (more accurately, fracture-filled) by Yehuda itself; are reliably G-H in color (GIA and AGS won't grade fracture-filled diamonds, so don't bother asking about a lab report from either of them); and have decent cut-performance -- for under $10K.

* if not, ask him if he is able-willing to source some Yehuda diamonds within your parameters, and what his "finder's fee" would be.

I don't know if $8K or thereabouts will get you even a Yehuda diamond that's 2 cts, of decent quality and clarity & relatively "high" color, but I think you can trust Jon to be "straight up" with you; he values cut performance, so I wouldn't fear that he's going to palm off a dud on you -- and he does not have a philosophical objection to these stones:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/clarity-enhanced-diamonds

Some cautionary notes:
* Fracture-filled diamonds do require some special care, but Yehuda has a lifetime restoration policy. See the answers to Will the enhancement last forever? and What happens if the diamond comes into contact with boiling acids or open flames? on Yehuda's FAQ page:
http://www.yehuda.com/EducationInfo?tab=5

* Fracture-filled diamonds, even the Yehuda-branded ones, fare poorly on the second-hand market. So don't bank on a Yehuda diamond being the springboard to a future upgrade.
 

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
Thank you all again, I guess I'll have to pass on this one as well, it's seems like it's very hard to find a decent 2ct for 10k and anything smaller 1.9 just looks to small. The crazy thing out of all my friends that I ask none of them have any idea what diamonds they wear or how shiny or not shiny they are...
 

Dancing Fire

Super_Ideal_Rock
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31,507
usa1983|1472950153|4073041 said:
Thank you all again, I guess I'll have to pass on this one as well, it's seems like it's very hard to find a decent 2ct for 10k and anything smaller 1.9 just looks to small. The crazy thing out of all my friends that I ask none of them have any idea what diamonds they wear or how shiny or not shiny they are...
Yup!...no filet mignon for hamburger price... :bigsmile:
 

BeekeeperBetty

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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Apr 15, 2015
Messages
271
You're not going to get the response you are looking for on Pricescope. If a 2 carat is the most important thing to you, and since there is a return policy, just buy it and see what you think. If you are looking for the absolute best cut and certifications, don't go this route. It's up to you.

I can see a lot of reasons people won't send a diamond to GIA to get extra money. Most of those reasons are laziness or apathy. Some people just want to get rid of something and don't care much about squeezing every penny out especially if it is going to mean they have to do some extra legwork. I've gotten some deals this way, and I've sold some things this way. I sold a car for several thousand less than it was worth because I was too busy with 3 kids, including a newborn, and a deployed husband to deal with getting it cleaned and certified by a mechanic first. I needed it gone so I did it the easiest way. Just this year I rented our investment property for less than it's worth because I didn't want to deal with it anymore. It happens.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
40,198
If you want 2 carats for 8k you best bet is an M/N color Old Cut.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jun 2, 2013
Messages
3,082
usa1983|1472950153|4073041 said:
Thank you all again, I guess I'll have to pass on this one as well, it's seems like it's very hard to find a decent 2ct for 10k and anything smaller 1.9 just looks to small. The crazy thing out of all my friends that I ask none of them have any idea what diamonds they wear or how shiny or not shiny they are...
Is this for yourself or someone else? Would you/she consider a halo ring? Haloing a smaller, center stone can be a more affordable way to gain finger coverage (assuming you don't select an expensive setting).
 

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
Good point BeekeeperBetty , the seller is about 2 hr away from me so i can even drive and check it out in person but I think 3 day will give me more time to review it if i get it shipped and maybe even have some professional look at it. The ring is for my g/f and originally she wanted a solitaire but after looking at some halo rings she likes them more now. I like The Anita Halo ( http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/engagement-rings/pave-and-side-stones/the-anita-halo-18k-rose-gold-5950r18 ) maybe even in rose gold and from what I read i can drop down in color if I choose to go with the rose gold setting but she also likes the idea to be able to switch between the settings at some point in the future so I think color H would be perfect. I discussed the grading with her and she said she doesn't care about the grading she just wants it big and shiny :wall:
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
40,198
She can switch settings with a J or K too. They look great as solitaires. And if you actually buy from a reputable vendor you would have an upgrade policy for later.

You are MUCH MUCH MUCH better off with a GIA J.

And you should be looking at 1.7 carats.

A well cut diamond looks bigger than a poorly performing one.

You know nothing about diamonds and are not listening to us. It's just sad.

If you go with an EGL H you are getting a GIA J anyway. The seller isn't telling you the truth on the color. They have no reason too. If they were reputable to begin with they wouldn't even carry EGL.
 

MollyMalone

Ideal_Rock
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Gypsy|1472957455|4073077 said:
* * * If you go with an EGL H you are getting a GIA J anyway. The seller isn't telling you the truth on the color. They have no reason too. If they were reputable to begin with they wouldn't even carry EGL.
I think, Gypsy, that usa1983 has been looking most recently at listings by private sellers on e.g., the I Do Now I Don't web site (maybe even Craigslist) -- not offerings from vendors in the know. The high probability that an EGL International report (especially EGL Israel) is quite "off" remains the same, but private sellers are more likely to be be blissfully ignorant, not deceitful.

Gypsy said:
http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8659864-1.75-carat-Round-diamond-K-color-VS2<span class="skimlinks-unlinked">-Clarity.aspx?sku=8659864&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com</span>

You put that in a rose gold halo it will look amazing.

There is this one too: <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">http://www.eternitybyyoni.com/diamond_detail.php?id=2471326&ref=pricescope</span>
Oooh, great finds! (Gypsy is such a treasure, as are others here!)

And fyi usa1983 -- although B2C and Eternity by Yoni (who are both PS sponsors) don't receive as much "air play" here on the Rocky Talky board as some other PS sponsors
https://www.pricescope.com/featured-sponsors
-- they are two vendors among those whom my late father-in-law, who was in the diamond trade, would recommend to friends and neighbors (he always declined to source diamonds and/or settings for anyone outside the immediate family).
 

BeekeeperBetty

Shiny_Rock
Premium
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Apr 15, 2015
Messages
271
If you are going to go look at it, take her with you so she can see it. Some women only care how big the stone is and don't care a whit about anything else. I know some young women like this, they have stones that are essentially a faceted salt block, but they only wanted a large size, and they love it. It's not my taste, personally, and I think it's not something that PS will advise you on, so you're on your own there (this site is dedicated to high quality diamonds). On the other hand, she may look at it and decide that it doesn't have the sparkle she wants, and then you can come here and posters will be happy to help you find a perfectly cut stone. But in the end, your girlfriend needs to be the one to decide.
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
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1,857
BeekeeperBetty|1472968775|4073101 said:
If you are going to go look at it, take her with you so she can see it. Some women only care how big the stone is and don't care a whit about anything else. I know some young women like this, they have stones that are essentially a faceted salt block, but they only wanted a large size, and they love it. It's not my taste, personally, and I think it's not something that PS will advise you on, so you're on your own there (this site is dedicated to high quality diamonds). On the other hand, she may look at it and decide that it doesn't have the sparkle she wants, and then you can come here and posters will be happy to help you find a perfectly cut stone. But in the end, your girlfriend needs to be the one to decide.
+1 to this. I think you said in another thread your gf had seen one of the other stones you were considering and decided it wasn't sparkly enough, maybe she should see this one too. It's possible there will be visible inclusions or the colour won't appeal. Has she seen well cut stones before? In normal lighting (ie not in a jewellery shop where the lighting is set to maximise the appearance of even poorer cut stones)????
 

shaggy1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 19, 2016
Messages
146
I wouldn't walk away from this stone, I'd RUN.

Private sellers are looking to make a sale. Anything they say is suspect, especially if they are not Diamond experts. And if you are not an expert either, how will you know what you are looking at?

For stones in this size range, I would only go with properly graded some stones by professional labs.
 

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
The last stone I asked about in another post she didn't see in person. I saw it myself and it wasn't shiny enough for me. About a month ago we went to the mall and saw a bunch of rings including Tiffany, Cartier, David Yurman and others and the only ones that we were impressed with were Tiffany rings and the rest just looked OK. I assumed it was the store lighting at Tiffany because most rings were very expensive with really good grading reports but they were not nearly as shiny as Tiffany. At one of the local jewelers they had a ton of different diamonds and after comparing a bunch of them she picked SI2, color H (GIA report below) as the one she would be ok with. Anything below H was too yellow for her but it might have been because they were all next to each other and you could really tell them apart. The 2.04 SI2 , H was 20k just for the stone so its clearly outside my range. The one from another post was a used GIA color J and the color looked fine to me but it just wasn't shiny enough, maybe that was my anticipation going in since I looked at the HCA tool before hand so my expectations were low for the ring going in. After discussing it again with her today, I think she now wants a 2+ ct in a solitaire setting (plat. or rose gold). Was that 2.04 ct that we saw for 20k would be considered a top qualify diamond (to me it looked like every other diamond in store) ?

idc.jpg
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 7, 2015
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2,171
The last GIA stone you listed has potential. The numbers are fine. The price is not. 20k for H SI2? Even Whiteflash, CBI, and GOG would not charge that much for their best cut diamonds. IMHO, a fair price for a common GIA H SI2 is between 10k and 15k, depending on cut quality and eye-cleanliness. Above that price point, it is the super ideal brand terriotory.

I think you are stuck between sellers who either show you poor quality diamonds or charge a exorbitant price.
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
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Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
20k is the price for that stone at a mall jeweler or private jeweler. You can get better stones than that in your price range online for 11,000$-13,000$. Buy online. Type in the specs you want and you find a winner. Or, you could ask her if 1.85 carat will work (can't tell the different between 1.85 and 2.0, but a huge jump in price), and you can get a 1.8-1.85 carat in your specs for around 10,000$, and if you drop down to 1.8-1.85 carats and go to color I (can't tell the difference between h, i, j once mounted, except maybe a hint of j at the right lighting from the side). When those color stones aren't right next to each other you really can't tell the difference unless you have a very trained eye. Your best best is to drop down to 1.8-1.85 carats, drop the color to I, and get a gia triple X rated stone (for those specs, you won't be able to get an ideal cut, and you will be on the lower end of an excellent cut, which is completely fine). :) Just explain to your girlfriend that you are working within your budget, and so long as you explain things, you will be ok. Or you can buy secondhand for the diamond and save at least 15-30% off the online retailer's price. But not everyone is ok with doing that (I don't know why, most diamonds get reused, and you buy a used diamond and put in in a setting, and it is a new ring!).

https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-search-results?depth__gte=0&depth__lte=99&table__gte=0&table__lte=99&h_GIA=on&h_AGS=on&h_other=on&price__gte=100&price__lte=999999&hca_index__gte=&hca_index__lte=&lab=null&all=0&hearts_arrows=&ags_cut_grade=&vendor__brick_and_mortar__contains=&shape=BR&size__gte=1&size__lte=1.49&color__gte=I&color__lte=I&clarity__gte=16&clarity__lte=18
 

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
Yes that 20k stone is at the jeweler called International Diamond Center where everyone seems to go for diamonds around here they are not as expensive as mall stores but not as cheap as online. I don't mind used and would almost prefer it that's why I started looking at used ones. It just seems hard to find used GIA in that size so I am looking at all my options.
 

Snowdrop13

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
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Aug 27, 2011
Messages
1,857
Do you have a set budget for this? There is a bit of a difference between 8K and 20K. Does your partner know what the budget is? It is interesting that she picked out with her own eyes the stone that is the best cut one you have shown us. Is 2ct plus what all her friends are wearing? Because that is a sizeable stone. Would she be willing to contribute to the cost to get exactly what she wants?
 

usa1983

Rough_Rock
Joined
Aug 23, 2016
Messages
30
Yes my budget is 10-11k, when we went to look at them originally i knew nothing about them or the size that she wanted and assumed the price is about double in stores vs online thats why we were looking at 20k diamonds. The IDC store where we spent the most time seemed to only sell good qualify diamonds and I assume thats why they only have good cuts (they said they hand pick them etc..). The reason for a 2 ct is because it seems to be big enough and not crazy expensive. Her finger size is 6.5 so anything smaller 1.9 looks small. I wished we would have looked at lower colors but the sales person was more focusing on H for some reason.
 
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