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Is this a fair price for a Canadian diamond?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by cubiczirconia, Aug 21, 2008.

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  1. cubiczirconia
    Rough_Rock

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    by cubiczirconia » Aug 21, 2008
    0.9 G VS2 very good cut
    polish and symmetry VG
    dimensions 6.09 x6.10 x 3.91
    GIA cert., laser inscribed

    In addition, it''s from Caprice Canadian Diamonds from the Ekati mines in the Northwest territories

    $6000 (canadian)

    Thanks
     
    


    


  2. JulieN
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by JulieN » Aug 21, 2008
    Depends what very good cut means. Is this a standard Round Brilliant cut with GIA cut grade as Very Good? You should be able to get angles on the stone, but it doesn''t look promising at this point unless it is a FIC.
     
  3. Lorelei
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    by Lorelei » Aug 21, 2008
    Welcome to Pricescope,

    Please post the rest of the info such as the depth, table, crown angle and pavilion angle so we can give some meaningful advice on this diamond. Have you seen it in person? Very Good cut is no guarantee of a well cut diamond, a diamond needs evaluating on it's own proportions to be able to judge cut quality.
     
  4. Cleo
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    by Cleo » Aug 21, 2008
    Ditto to Lorelei. :)

    If you can get hold of the GIA certificate number and post that, that should give us all the info we need.

    x x x
     
    


    


  5. cubiczirconia
    Rough_Rock

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    by cubiczirconia » Aug 22, 2008
    Thanks for the welcoming. I will post the GIA registry #s as soon as I get them. Thanks for your help.
     
  6. munkafoo
    Rough_Rock

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    by munkafoo » Aug 22, 2008
    hello! i am also new to PS. i don''t know if this is true, but i heard that canadian diamonds are usually 20% more expensive than other diamonds. reason...again don''t know. sorry i don''t think that was helpful.
     
  7. Richard Sherwood
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Richard Sherwood » Aug 23, 2008
    Seems about the right pricing for a Canadian stone of that quality.

    You''re probably paying in the neighborhood of a 15% premium for the Canadian origin, which is to be expected. Maybe 5% more or less (10 to 20%) depending on how you''re purchasing it (bricks & mortar retail store? internet?).
     
  8. cubiczirconia
    Rough_Rock

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    by cubiczirconia » Aug 26, 2008
    Here are the actual GIA details/measurements. The biggest attribute of this diamond that I am happy with is that it''s a Canadian diamond that comes with a CANADAMARK certificate, which I have had difficulty finding so far. The final price is $5500 canadian (taxes included). I know it is not ideal, but it''s been a long search, and the fact that it is Canadian, is the most important aspect for me.

    Thanks for your help.

    GIA certificate

    Round Brilliant
    Measurements: 6.01 - 6.10 x 3.87 mm
    Carat Weight: 0.90
    Color Grade: G
    Clarity Grade: VS2
    Cut Grade: Very Good

    Proportions:
    Depth: 63.9 %
    Table: 57 %
    Crown Angle: 37.5°
    Crown Height: 16.5 %
    Pavilion Angle: 41°
    Pavilion Depth: 43 %
    Star length: 50 %
    Lower Half: 80 %

    Girdle: Thin to Thick, Faceted

    Culet: None

    Finish:

    Polish: Very Good

    Symmetry: Very Good

    Fluorescence: None

    Clarity Characteristics: Cloud, Indented Natural, Feather
     
  9. JulieN
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by JulieN » Aug 26, 2008
    Run! That''s my advice.
     
  10. Lorelei
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    by Lorelei » Aug 26, 2008
    Goodness, I would find another diamond, this one is not well cut!! It is overly deep and also is what we call a steep deep with the angles, it will very likely leak light and look dark, not perform well.....
     
    


    


  11. cubiczirconia
    Rough_Rock

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    by cubiczirconia » Aug 26, 2008
    Hi everyone. Thanks for your help. But if it is such a poor cut diamond, why does it have a very good cut appraisal from GIA. Doesn''t very good mean that it in the top 15% of cut diamonds, and often reflects as much light as ideal cut diamond? Thanks again.
     
  12. JulieN
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    by JulieN » Aug 26, 2008
    where did you get 15%? We did have a number-crunching thread a while back, but I don't want to look through it.

    GIA partially exists to help sell diamonds, don't forget. A GIA report makes a somewhat ok-looking stone much easier to sell than a somewhat ok-looking stone without a paper.
     
  13. Lorelei
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    by Lorelei » Aug 26, 2008
    These cut grades can allow for less effective combos, in this case the crown and pavilion angles are respectively too steep and deep to drive the light return effectively through the diamond and back to your eyes. The result of this is, that the diamond could lack sparkle, leak light and show this with dark areas in the diamond.
     
  14. AndyMN
    Rough_Rock

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    by AndyMN » Aug 26, 2008
    I apologize in advance for getting off of the subject, but Richard... Has anyone ever told you that you look like the Senate canidate from Minnesota and former Saturday Night Live personality Al Franken??
     
  15. Richard Sherwood
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  16. strmrdr
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    by strmrdr » Aug 26, 2008
    GIA EX is the GIA top grade and in some peoples opinion is too wide, VG is one step down and is way too wide a range and that one is in the bottom of it.
     
  17. strmrdr
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  18. denverappraiser
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    by denverappraiser » Aug 26, 2008
    There’s some slightly fishy statistics on the report but it’s worth noting that 41.2% of the GIA stones had no cut grade at all, presumably because they weren’t round. When you exclude those, 73% of the stones are graded VG or better with 'excellent' being 26%. Curiously, 0.2% of the GIA stones were Ideal, a grade that GIA doesn’t issue. This makes me at least a little bit suspicious of the methodology although I haven't looked into it yet. [​IMG]

    Neil Beaty
    GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
    Professional Appraisals in Denver
     
  19. cubiczirconia
    Rough_Rock

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    by cubiczirconia » Aug 26, 2008
    Great. Thanks for all your help.

    I am just starting to learn about all these details that I should be looking for outside of the 4cs. I got the 15% number, from just reading the descriptions of GIA very good diamonds from websites like diamonds buying guide and brilliant earth.

    So my next question is that if I just get a GIA excellent cut stone will I be safe from getting a steep deep diamond?

    However, from reading previous posts, it sounds like steep deep diamonds can still make it in to a GIA excellent grade. Are steep deep diamonds common in the GIA excellent cut category?

    What ranges for crown angle, pavilion angle, table% and depth should I be looking for?

    Thanks again for everybody''s help, you''ve all been very helpful.
     
  20. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by strmrdr » Aug 26, 2008
    best bet is get the numbers and run them thru the HCA.
    Then get an IS image and ask here for help.
     
  21. strmrdr
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by strmrdr » Aug 26, 2008
    Yea I thought about that but the data isn''t there to say more than what I did.
    Some may be old report gia or the wholesaler didn''t upload the grade.
    But I can say that in the study gia EX was 14.8% or better.
     
  22. Lorelei
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    by Lorelei » Aug 27, 2008


    Here are some numbers you can use to help you. Also some proportions outside of these can work well, in that case use the HCA as Strm suggests to see which combos work best.


    depth - 60 - 62% - although my personal preference is to allow up to 62.4%
    table - 54- 57%
    crown angle - 34- 35 degrees
    pavilion angle - 40.6- 41 degrees
    girdle - avoid extremes, look for thin to slightly thick, thin to medium etc
    polish and symmetry - very good and above
    note - with crown and pavilion angles at the shallower ends ( CA 34- PA 40.6) and steeper ( CA 35- PA 41) check to make sure these angles complement in that particular diamond - eyeballs, Idealscope, trusted vendor input - check as appropriate!

     
  23. cubiczirconia
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