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Is this 9ct or Gold shell? I paid quite a bit for it

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
I bought this absolutely beautiful brutalist/modernist 9ct bracelet, and I adore it. However it was not cheap, and was bought as all 9ct gold. Upon receiving it I noticed the 375 hallmark had GS inscribed beside it. I hadn’t seen this before and the little information I could find online suggests this means Gold Shell. It is also marked 9ct A*D foreign, which stands for Andreas Daub. I can’t find much evidence they did solid gold pieces. Any help would be greatly appreciated on the GS mark as I will be returning it if it’s not solid 9ct gold! 7DFE984E-2A51-4C52-BD31-6F878E8C0A99.jpeg 5802382C-8C01-4A18-831A-9A63FAC80B66.jpeg 4BC24682-EC9D-4B16-8053-D806A4A2BC0C.jpeg 5CC20850-B72B-46C3-AD3E-0D26C5B8031A.jpeg 86A4810D-E07D-4A68-AA0B-C17900AB7943.jpeg
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
8,584
Do you have a jeweler nearby? I would be inclined to have this looked at. They might want to test it though and I would worry that might void the ability to return it.
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
Do you have a jeweler nearby? I would be inclined to have this looked at. They might want to test it though and I would worry that might void the ability to return it.

That would be my preferred option but I talked to one over the phone and they said they would want to test it to give a definitive answer. It’s beautiful, but it was expensive. Too expensive to keep as a piece of costume jewellery! 0F852E44-8302-4297-AED3-C079275495CB.jpeg
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
8,584
I totally get it. I believe there is an X-ray method to test gold, not sure if that can determine whether a piece is solid or not. Maybe someone else can confirm. I do hope you are able to figure it out, absolutely if you paid for solid gold, it should be exactly that.

It’s a cool piece so fingers crossed it’s solid!
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
I totally get it. I believe there is an X-ray method to test gold, not sure if that can determine whether a piece is solid or not. Maybe someone else can confirm. I do hope you are able to figure it out, absolutely if you paid for solid gold, it should be exactly that.

It’s a cool piece so fingers crossed it’s solid!

Thank you! An x ray didn’t seem to be an option here unfortunately. I think I’ll have to return unless I can find out for sure, it’s a pity because it is so my style!
 

Paisley2628

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
420
I bought this absolutely beautiful brutalist/modernist 9ct bracelet, and I adore it. However it was not cheap, and was bought as all 9ct gold. Upon receiving it I noticed the 375 hallmark had GS inscribed beside it. I hadn’t seen this before and the little information I could find online suggests this means Gold Shell. It is also marked 9ct A*D foreign, which stands for Andreas Daub. I can’t find much evidence they did solid gold pieces. Any help would be greatly appreciated on the GS mark as I will be returning it if it’s not solid 9ct gold! 7DFE984E-2A51-4C52-BD31-6F878E8C0A99.jpeg 5802382C-8C01-4A18-831A-9A63FAC80B66.jpeg 4BC24682-EC9D-4B16-8053-D806A4A2BC0C.jpeg 5CC20850-B72B-46C3-AD3E-0D26C5B8031A.jpeg 86A4810D-E07D-4A68-AA0B-C17900AB7943.jpeg

I've done some quick research on your bracelet. Every piece of Andreas Daub jewelry I have seen has been gold filled(rolled gold)- not solid gold. It appears they produced very fine quality "costume" jewelry pieces.

"Andreas Daub founded his company as a young goldsmith in 1872 and it still bears his name. Today it is run by Kurt Daub in the fifth generation. Legendary watch chains, Art Nouveau collections, as well as the production of the first rolled gold jewellery in Germany shaped the first decades of the Company History."

I am very much inclined to believe that your bracelet is not solid 9ct gold.

It is a beautiful bracelet made by a company with an interesting history.
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
I've done some quick research on your bracelet. Every piece of Andreas Daub jewelry I have seen has been gold filled(rolled gold)- not solid gold. It appears they produced very fine quality "costume" jewelry pieces.

"Andreas Daub founded his company as a young goldsmith in 1872 and it still bears his name. Today it is run by Kurt Daub in the fifth generation. Legendary watch chains, Art Nouveau collections, as well as the production of the first rolled gold jewellery in Germany shaped the first decades of the Company History."

I am very much inclined to believe that your bracelet is not solid 9ct gold.

It is a beautiful bracelet made by a company with an interesting history.

Thank you, I was inclined to think this way too, the many hallmarks on the clasp gave me pause though. It is fully hallmarked for 9ct gold imported and assayed in London. I would have not doubted it was solid only for the faint GS on it!
 

Paisley2628

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
420
Thank you, I was inclined to think this way too, the many hallmarks on the clasp gave me pause though. It is fully hallmarked for 9ct gold imported and assayed in London. I would have not doubted it was solid only for the faint GS on it!

Very interesting that your piece has the assayed in London marks-
since Andreas Daub jewelery is made in Germany.

"As in the past, every single piece of jewellery from the company Andreas Daub is made in the traditional location of Pforzheim"

I am intrigued!
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
Very interesting that your piece has the assayed in London marks-
since Andreas Daub jewelery is made in Germany.

"As in the past, every single piece of jewellery from the company Andreas Daub is made in the traditional location of Pforzheim"

I am intrigued!

Yes it has import assay marks for london, and they hallmarked it as 9ct gold. The only doubts I have is the GS etched beside it! The seller said they acid tested it and it was 9ct, but once I started to research I got doubts!
 

Paisley2628

Shiny_Rock
Joined
May 15, 2016
Messages
420
Another bit of information that I found-
The "A*D foreign"

"This would be a piece made for export from Germany, the word 'Foreign' would have been applied to comply with the country of destination's import laws."


The acid test only tests the outer surface that gets scratched onto the stone. That would test as 9ct - because it is only testing a small portion of the outside shell of the bracelet.
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
Another bit of information that I found-
The "A*D foreign"

"This would be a piece made for export from Germany, the word 'Foreign' would have been applied to comply with the country of destination's import laws."


The acid test only tests the outer surface that gets scratched onto the stone. That would test as 9ct - because it is only testing a small portion of the outside shell of the bracelet.

It’s so interesting really, but at the price I paid I think I’ll have to send it back unfortunately!
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231

goldnsilver

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
87
This is very interesting! Unfortunately I can't read any of the assay marks in the loupe closeup photo beyond the ".375", so I can't comment on how they compare to the usual verified British gold marks exactly.

If they're consistent with normal assay office marks, then I think it would be very strange for it not to be solid gold. British assaying has historically been very strict and accurate, and I wouldn't see 1967 (pre-XRF testing which came in around 2000) as basis for doubt. A deep scrape instead of a light scratch would have been made in the item (which this bracelet could take as it's a substantial piece, and the importer would have polished it out after receiving it back), plus any discrepancy in metal weight would have been apparent to assay office officials, so personally I don't think the assay office could have been "fooled".

Additionally, it wouldn't have made any sense for the importer to then add any marks indicating non solid gold, after the item has been certified by the assay office as solid.

The "GS" could be the sponsor (in this case the importer company)'s mark, which was added to all imported items pre-1999. I couldn't find a comprehensive list of gold makers' marks easily, but here are some examples of early silver makers and importers in London whose marks were "GS" - https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/London-GS-GZ.html#GS.

My general impression is that markings on British pieces, including gold and silver plate and gold filled, have traditionally been fairly consistent and there aren't as many ways of specifying metal content as US pieces seem to have. I've only seen "GF", "G.F.", and "Rolled Gold" on gold filled pieces. Definitely not "GS" so personally I'd be hesitant to attribute meaning to it until I've seen a verified non solid gold piece with the mark on it.

A relative gravity test may be helpful, since 9k gold is a little heavier than sterling silver, and sterling silver is in turn 1.228 heavier than brass which would be the main material in gold filled/rolled gold items (sorry I'm too lazy to calculate how much heavier 9k gold actually is than brass, so this is a long way of showing it). Here are two metal weight charts that I'm referring to: https://www.serendipitydiamonds.com/ie/education/precious-metal-weight-conversion-chart
So if your bracelet is "gold shell", it should weigh noticeably less than it should be with solid 9k gold composition.

Sorry this is very long. Just some thoughts from someone with a mild interest in British hallmarking and metal composition! Hope you get to make a satisfactory decision.
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
This is very interesting! Unfortunately I can't read any of the assay marks in the loupe closeup photo beyond the ".375", so I can't comment on how they compare to the usual verified British gold marks exactly.

If they're consistent with normal assay office marks, then I think it would be very strange for it not to be solid gold. British assaying has historically been very strict and accurate, and I wouldn't see 1967 (pre-XRF testing which came in around 2000) as basis for doubt. A deep scrape instead of a light scratch would have been made in the item (which this bracelet could take as it's a substantial piece, and the importer would have polished it out after receiving it back), plus any discrepancy in metal weight would have been apparent to assay office officials, so personally I don't think the assay office could have been "fooled".

Additionally, it wouldn't have made any sense for the importer to then add any marks indicating non solid gold, after the item has been certified by the assay office as solid.

The "GS" could be the sponsor (in this case the importer company)'s mark, which was added to all imported items pre-1999. I couldn't find a comprehensive list of gold makers' marks easily, but here are some examples of early silver makers and importers in London whose marks were "GS" - https://www.silvermakersmarks.co.uk/Makers/London-GS-GZ.html#GS.

My general impression is that markings on British pieces, including gold and silver plate and gold filled, have traditionally been fairly consistent and there aren't as many ways of specifying metal content as US pieces seem to have. I've only seen "GF", "G.F.", and "Rolled Gold" on gold filled pieces. Definitely not "GS" so personally I'd be hesitant to attribute meaning to it until I've seen a verified non solid gold piece with the mark on it.

A relative gravity test may be helpful, since 9k gold is a little heavier than sterling silver, and sterling silver is in turn 1.228 heavier than brass which would be the main material in gold filled/rolled gold items (sorry I'm too lazy to calculate how much heavier 9k gold actually is than brass, so this is a long way of showing it). Here are two metal weight charts that I'm referring to: https://www.serendipitydiamonds.com/ie/education/precious-metal-weight-conversion-chart
So if your bracelet is "gold shell", it should weigh noticeably less than it should be with solid 9k gold composition.

Sorry this is very long. Just some thoughts from someone with a mild interest in British hallmarking and metal composition! Hope you get to make a satisfactory decision.

Thanks so much for this reply, it was so informative! I did reach out to Andreas Daub who quickly replied! They said if it is not marked rolled gold then it is solid, but they referred the email on to Mark Milton jewellery who were their sellers in the UK. The Don runs the company now and he said that it’s solid, the GS is their mark for the assay office! I’ve attached a picture of his reply! BF52CD9A-43ED-40B5-B8CC-A924B8E21A8B.jpeg
 

goldnsilver

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 31, 2020
Messages
87
@weemie that's amazing! I'm so glad that GS is the sponsor's mark as I hoped. So your bracelet is good solid gold! Hurray!

ETA: Also that's some super detective work you've done there reaching out to Andreas Daub! So cool that you got the info on the marks straight from them.
 
Last edited:

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
@weemie that's amazing! I'm so glad that GS is the sponsor's mark as I hoped. So your bracelet is good solid gold! Hurray!

ETA: Also that's some super detective work you've done there reaching out to Andreas Daub! So cool that you got the info on the marks straight from them.

Thank you! I’m delighted because it’s so lovely, a nice solid weight. I love retro furniture also and I do a lot of research for that so it was my next step!
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Feb 2, 2016
Messages
8,584
I’m so glad this worked out in the end, it’s a very cool piece and I hope you will get lots of enjoyment out of wearing it!
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
11,888
Thanks so much for this reply, it was so informative! I did reach out to Andreas Daub who quickly replied! They said if it is not marked rolled gold then it is solid, but they referred the email on to Mark Milton jewellery who were their sellers in the UK. The Don runs the company now and he said that it’s solid, the GS is their mark for the assay office! I’ve attached a picture of his reply! BF52CD9A-43ED-40B5-B8CC-A924B8E21A8B.jpeg

Great news
now you can wear it and not have any niggling thoughts to detract from your enjoyment of it
 

VRBeauty

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
10,493
How wonderful that you have not only the lovely bracelet, but also that additional background on its origins!
 

weemie

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2021
Messages
231
How wonderful that you have not only the lovely bracelet, but also that additional background on its origins!

Thanks @VRBeauty! I love it, and having the extra info makes it more special! It’s an apt piece for me, as 1960’s furniture is my other passion!
 

peacechick

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 6, 2013
Messages
1,475
Just read through this thread and what a nice story it is with a happy ending. :appl: It is a beautiful bracelet!
 
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