Is there such a thing as Ideal Cushion Cut?

[kathness]

I’m a little bit more familiar with RB cut diamonds and what to look for. Just wondering with cushion cut diamonds is there such a thing as ideal cut? HCA scoring? How do you know it’s a good cushion cut?

 

[chrono]

There are sort of ideal old-style cushion cuts but for the most part, there is no standard idea cushion (or any fancy shapes) cut or grading. There is no HCA or other method except to judge an ASET.

 

[ecf8503]

For fancy cuts you can't judge by the numbers - you need and ASET image (and the honest eye of a jeweler who is an expert in these types of cuts).

That said, Good Old Gold's August Vintage cushions (which are an antique style with larger facets than modern cushions) CAN be given an Ideal cut status and a perfect 0 for light performance.

What style of cushion are you looking for (modern or antique)?

 

[chrono]

There are sort of ideal old-style cushion cuts but for the most part, there is no standard idea cushion (or any fancy shapes) cut or grading. There is no HCA or other method except to judge an ASET.

The grammatical errors are embarrassing and I cannot let it stand. Here's a second pass.

There are sort of ideal old-style cushion cuts but for the most part, there is no standard ideal cushion (or any fancy shapes) cut or grading. There is no HCA or other method of evaluating light performance except to judge using an ASET.

 

[StacylikesSparkles]

For fancy cuts you can't judge by the numbers - you need and ASET image (and the honest eye of a jeweler who is an expert in these types of cuts).

That said, Good Old Gold's August Vintage cushions (which are an antique style with larger facets than modern cushions) CAN be given an Ideal cut status and a perfect 0 for light performance.

What style of cushion are you looking for (modern or antique)?

Who is grading the diamonds as ideal though? GIA or AGS?

 

[chrono]

Who is grading the diamonds as ideal though? GIA or AGS?

No one is grading them as ideal. The lab memo is from GIA but when viewed through the ASET, this is about as good as it gets.

 

[yssie]

For fancy cuts you can't judge by the numbers - you need and ASET image (and the honest eye of a jeweler who is an expert in these types of cuts).

That said, Good Old Gold's August Vintage cushions (which are an antique style with larger facets than modern cushions) CAN be given an Ideal cut status and a perfect 0 for light performance.

What style of cushion are you looking for (modern or antique)?

Who is grading the diamonds as ideal though? GIA or AGS?

Specialty DQR (for brands that pay) w/ 'Light Performance' analysis from AGSL.
According to their site AGS will also issue a DQD with light performance analysis for cushions, but I've never come across one.

The variety of reports that AGS will issue under various circumstances, using different grading schemes and metrics with confusingly similar/repetitive nomenclature... boggles the mind.

http://www.agslab.com/products-platinum-diamond-quality-document.php

 

[diamondseeker2006]

AGS grades some of Good Old Gold's August Vintage cushions as Ideal in light performance. To my knowledge, there aren't any ideal cut modern cushions or old antique cushions. That's why cushions are hard to buy. But I love Good Old Gold's AVC's and that is what I hope to buy, personally!!! But the only way to buy other cushions is to see the photos of them and have an ASET image. Good Old Gold does provide that on any cushions (or any shape stone) they have or call in for a client. I recently bought an asscher and it helped so much that they did all that and made a video comparison of a few diamonds for me.

 

[ecf8503]

Sorry - didn't mean to confuse anyone. But if you look at the AGS document, on this one for example, it does say Ideal cut and 0 for light performance. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9600/ I haven't looked at *all* of GOG's AVC's, but to me it's a good sign that at least some stones are able to attain this level of approval from a major lab. JMHO.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Sorry - didn't mean to confuse anyone. But if you look at the AGS document, on this one for example, it does say Ideal cut and 0 for light performance. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9600/ I haven't looked at *all* of GOG's AVC's, but to me it's a good sign that at least some stones are able to attain this level of approval from a major lab. JMHO.

Oh, WOW, is all I can say about that one!!!

 

[kathness]

oh wow there is so much to learn about this particular cut!

To summarize my understanding;
- Cushion cuts tend to be classified as either modern or vintage/antique.
- There is no standard for "ideal" cut cushions. However, as mentioned by ecf8503 AGS do categories the AVC from GOG as ideal as per his example...
- As Chrono has mentioned ASET images would be good to judge if the cushion cut is good or not.

Yassie - I didn't realized that AGS produce different types of reports! LOL this is confusing!!

ecf8503 - to answer your question; i'm not specifically looking for one yet, I'm trying to understand this specific diamond cut for my own learning purposes. I will probably buy one next year though

1. Is there a particular ratio a person should look for? I've read somewhere that a ratio of 1.25 was meant to be good for cushion cut diamonds.

2. Is there an advantage of having modern cut cushions over vintage cut cushions? Or is this a personal preference?

3. I've seen the AVC from GOGs how does this compare to VC Antique Cushion cut? According to VC's site he no longer accepts August Vintage Cuts.

 

[Smith1942]

Blue Nile offers Signature Asschers. Here are the parameters: http://www.bluenile.com/signature-ideal-asscher-diamonds

 

[chrono]

1. Is there a particular ratio a person should look for? I've read somewhere that a ratio of 1.25 was meant to be good for cushion cut diamonds.
Personal preference. I like mine to be absolutely square although lately, a slightly rectangular shape seems interesting.
2. Is there an advantage of having modern cut cushions over vintage cut cushions? Or is this a personal preference?
Personal preference. I love chunky facets with tiny tables so antique style appeals greatly to me. That's not to say I haven't been wowed by a few modern cushions though.
3. I've seen the AVC from GOGs how does this compare to VC Antique Cushion cut? According to VC's site he no longer accepts August Vintage Cuts.
No idea as I've only seen GOG's AVCs in person.

 

[kathness]

Thanks Chrono! I'm liking the look of the vintage Cushion Cuts, but noticed that you pay premium for it!

I saw Charmypoo's thread it has also help me greatly!

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/cushion-101-my-experience-in-making-a-harry-winston-halo.183473/[/URL]

 

[kathness]

*bump* my own thread

If i was looking at Antique Cushion cut Aset images... what should I be looking for? What colors to avoid? is there such a thing?

 

[chrono]

Just look at GOG's AVC ASET and you'll get a good idea of what to look for. Basically, lots of red and some green, but red should be the dominant colour. White is leakage so try to find something with as little white as possible.

 

[kathness]

Thanks Chrono! So the more red the better.

I was looking at 3 different cushions from VC, ERD and GOG. I got a bit confused with the aset images they have.

 

[chrono]

VC and GOG's are similar but the ERD you picked out has a leaky cross. Either that, or it wasn't done correctly.

 

[kathness]

Ah! the ERD ones are all the same.. they seem to have the same leaky cross! ( i went through the 3 pages they have) no wonder AVG and VC are so much more expensive!!!

 

[kathness]

Ah! the ERD ones are all the same.. they seem to have the same leaky cross! ( i went through the 3 pages they have) no wonder AVG and VC are so much more expensive!!!

 

[Rhino]

Just for the record there are currently 2 cushion cuts I am aware of that qualify as official AGS Ideal. The Brellia Square Cushion Hearts & Arrows and the August Vintage Cushion (those that would get Ideal in each category). Even those Brellia and AVC that don't get the full "Ideal Cut" grade (due to polish/symmetry) will always have AGS Ideal Light Performance though. I think that AGS may also be changing certain criteria to qualify for Ideal Cut. Similar to GIA, how GIA will allow "very good" polish/symmetry to qualify for their "Excellent" cut grade I believe AGS may be following suite and allowing their "Excellent" grade for polish/symmetry to also get "Ideal Cut" status. I've seen this on some new Reports but I've yet to talk to one of their lab techs to confirm.

There are some other modern cushion cuts which apparently also qualify for "Ideal" in optics but confirmation with AGS would also be required.

Just like their round alternatives these ideals take more time and labor to cut and more material is cut away to achieve the final product so naturally it is impossible to cut them at the same cost it does for non ideals which focus primarily on being cut to maintain the most weight possible.

 

[Draco]

Thanks Chrono! So the more red the better.

I was looking at 3 different cushions from VC, ERD and GOG. I got a bit confused with the aset images they have.

In very broad general terms, the VC and AVC return light efficiently under the table from the mains. The AVC appears to be cut to tighter standards with slightly larger virtual facets (flashes) overall but they appear quite close in terms of brightness from the ASET images.

The ERD stone has head shadow or leakage (the black/blue areas under the table) "the cross" so it will not be as bright in that region as compared to the others.

To answer your original question YES AGSL has given AGS 0 (ideal) for light performance to many cushions both branded and generic.
Since they now allow cushions to have culets and still receive the top grade as well as non H&A cutting styles.
http://www.agslab.com/pdf_sync_reports/104052848004-PLDQR.PDF


Often stones receive 0 for LP only as mentioned as they don't have AGSL's top grade for symmetry or polish. Not just the brands listed in this thread.

 

[Victor Canera]

Hi Kathness,

As others have mentioned, there isn't really a standardized "ideal cut" status in cushions but going with AGSL, they do have their cut score which is a combination of the other grades like polish, symmetry, light performance. They do use the "ideal" terminology in giving the highest score.

Our Canera Antique Cushions consistently score 0 for Light Performance and in most instances score a 0 in the final cut category. We've been really constrained in stones because of the rough diamond environment but as an example, we just sent a 2.35ct stone to AGS that achieved an AGS 000 score.

The difference in ASET images can also be partly attributed to the ASET setup that a vendor uses. We've been tweaking our ASET setup for months and I think we'll continue to tweak this going forward.

The cost difference from other stones pretty much has to do with yield from rough. Our yield from rough is less than 50% these days so we're losing more than 50% of the weight of rough into a polished stone. If you have a lot of specifications and guidelines (light performance considerations for example) that you need to follow in making a stone, you're going to lose a lot of weight from rough as opposed to just making a stone have the general appearance of that design. So, as an example, you could have a 1.05ct, really nice performing cushion or a 1.40ct that just looks like an antique cushion.

Good luck.

 

[kathness]

Just for the record there are currently 2 cushion cuts I am aware of that qualify as official AGS Ideal. The Brellia Square Cushion Hearts & Arrows and the August Vintage Cushion (those that would get Ideal in each category). Even those Brellia and AVC that don't get the full "Ideal Cut" grade (due to polish/symmetry) will always have AGS Ideal Light Performance though. I think that AGS may also be changing certain criteria to qualify for Ideal Cut. Similar to GIA, how GIA will allow "very good" polish/symmetry to qualify for their "Excellent" cut grade I believe AGS may be following suite and allowing their "Excellent" grade for polish/symmetry to also get "Ideal Cut" status. I've seen this on some new Reports but I've yet to talk to one of their lab techs to confirm.

There are some other modern cushion cuts which apparently also qualify for "Ideal" in optics but confirmation with AGS would also be required.

Just like their round alternatives these ideals take more time and labor to cut and more material is cut away to achieve the final product so naturally it is impossible to cut them at the same cost it does for non ideals which focus primarily on being cut to maintain the most weight possible.

Thanks Rhino for providing your inputs! It is always great to get some information back from the vendors. Do let us know what the AGS tech labs come back if they will allow their “Excellent” grade for polish/symmetry to also get “ Ideal Cut” Status.


Thanks Draco!

Victor Canera" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

Hi Kathness,

As others have mentioned, there isn't really a standardized "ideal cut" status in cushions but going with AGSL, they do have their cut score which is a combination of the other grades like polish, symmetry, light performance. They do use the "ideal" terminology in giving the highest score.

Our Canera Antique Cushions consistently score 0 for Light Performance and in most instances score a 0 in the final cut category. We've been really constrained in stones because of the rough diamond environment but as an example, we just sent a 2.35ct stone to AGS that achieved an AGS 000 score.

The difference in ASET images can also be partly attributed to the ASET setup that a vendor uses. We've been tweaking our ASET setup for months and I think we'll continue to tweak this going forward.

The cost difference from other stones pretty much has to do with yield from rough. Our yield from rough is less than 50% these days so we're losing more than 50% of the weight of rough into a polished stone. If you have a lot of specifications and guidelines (light performance considerations for example) that you need to follow in making a stone, you're going to lose a lot of weight from rough as opposed to just making a stone have the general appearance of that design. So, as an example, you could have a 1.05ct, really nice performing cushion or a 1.40ct that just looks like an antique cushion.

Good luck.

Hi Victor – That’s very informative; after going through pages of antique cushion cuts I think I have to say that the GOG AVC and the Canera Antique Cushions are my favourites. But I did notice that you currently don’t have many in your inventory. Will this change in the near future?