is there en expert here on emerald cut diamonds???? i need you r help!!!

[chrono]

Date: 3/16/2005 8

5:30 PM
Author: ridi
what does it mean too deep? its deeper than longer??? if the only thing wrong is the depth which is 70 and everything else is ok why is it not a good buy?

this is too much info, i have a big mess in my heaqd and i am doubting ebverything i see and cant find anything, one diamond depth is bad, the other table, the other inclusioins are too big is there realy a solution?
also it is verry difficutl to find a diaond with the parameters which we are talking about that is 2.5 ct - 3.00ct???

the fact is even if someone wants to spend 30-40k on a stone he still cant find what he wants quality wise

Too deep means that the overall depth (not the length and width) is too much. All that carat weight is in the pavilon area when you cannot see it. You want to retain weight in the crown area (where the length and width are visible) so that the EC will look larger or its size.

For example:
You can have a 3ct stone with a 70% depth that faces up the same (exact length and width) as a 2.75ct stone with a 65% depth.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/17/2005 8:24:24 AM
Author: Chrono



To get a better understanding of what ratios you like, go here: http://www.gemappraisers.com/ and click on the Fancy Shape Selector on the left hand column.

This is actually a REALLY good idea as I read that the preference is 1.4 to 1.75, however, I like the 1.4 range when I play around on the Fancy Shape Selector (now whether it''ll look good on my finger is another story!)....but it just goes to show that what is recommended isn''t ALWAYS what''s best for you!

 

[ridi]

hello all
i have found something i will see it tomorow please tell me what should i watch out for and your over all opinion about the stone, and what you think in general

3.01 ct
G
vs1
64.5 Depth
66 table
polish and symetry are both -- GOOD

parametres are 10.49 x 6.96 x 4.49

the only thing i do not know is the crown angle

is there any way to find out what it is from this info???

comments suggestions opinions advice ?
i will liik at it tomorow, the only thing of concern to me is color??? do you think i should take a better color E,F perhaps when buying the stome this size??? its G? opinion what should i look for and whatch out for? also what do i do with this crow angle?

thanks

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/17/2005 12:17:44 PM
Author: ridi
also what do i do with this crow angle?

I wish I knew

If you get all those angles perhaps I''d have some idea. There should be at least two for crown and two for pavilion, unless you have the full "manufactiturer" version of the Sarin report - with that I''d know what to do.

G should be fine. If the stone looks bright in different lighting conditions... what more to ask for

There is onbiously not enough time for this - otherwise one of those $30 worth "Ideal Scopes" would have given something to talk about.

 

[chrono]

Ridi,

What you are looking for is the crown HEIGHT percentage, not crown angle. You can get this from a Sarin machine or if you are seeing this personally, you can see if the crown is high or low. If you are inexperienced, this can be difficult to gauge. The parameters look promising. I prefer the table% to be less than the depth% because it means that there is a greater possiblity of the crown HEIGHT being higher but that isn''t necessarily true.

This is what you might want to look for tomorrow and do look at it under various light sources:

Indirect light: You want to see all the gorgeous steps. A beautiful balance of narrow light and dark lines in the center with tiny sparkles like crushed ice at the two ends. Should be very white with hints of strong dispersion at the ends.

Office fluorescent light: Should be icy white. When moving the EC from side to side, rainbow colours move from one end of the long steps to the other end. The corners still looks like icy crushed ice.

Sunlight: Rainbows should flash everywhere. It is usually more impressive from a few feet. It is best in viewed in the shade on a bright sunny day. It should look like a lightshow from a few inches away.

The ratio is a 1.5
Colour is also a personal preference. Maybe a G is all right for you, maybe not. See if you can line up an E or F next to it face up. If you cannot see the difference, then there is no sense in buying an E or F when a G would be fine.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

This has been a GREAT dialogue as there aren''t enough threads on ECs....Chrono, you''ve been a GREAT source of info!!! Thanks everyone!

 

[ridi]

also just found it has some flouresence
thats a dissapointment
but if i am inspecting the stone witha naked eye is there a mark that i can compare the the crown size too?
lets say there is no satrin report, nor there is time, how can i narrow it down to the best of my ability?? it has to be 15% on each side?
how can i visiualy measure the crown angle?? compare it to somehting ?? is it possible??

thanks

 

[ridi]

also, chrono, valerie thank you verry much for your input and time you are giving me with my problem and also everytone else that is helping out big thanks!!!

 

[chrono]

Ridi,

I love flourescence. In fact, I really wanted my stone to have it but could not find one with nice specs as well. Maybe next time. If the EC has slight or medium flouro, you will never notice it in person. Flouro can be you friend. It usually helps a lower coloured stone appear whiter in sunlight. A strong flouro gives the stone a wonderful slightly bluish colour which I personally love but most people only see it in stones with strong flouro. There are pictures here in Pricescope of gorgeous stones with flouro. I''ve forgotten who has them but a quick look should bring them up. Do avoid flouro if it is any colour other than blue. You don''t want yellow flouro!

There has also been indepth discussions here on PS about flouro too which should help dismiss the myth about flouro being a bad thing.

To guestimate the crown height, start at the girdle. See how deep the stone is below the girdle and above the girdle. You want to have some "weight" or height above the girdle. Your trusted jeweller can also help you guesstimate. It is very hard for a regular inexperienced consumer to guess the crown height. The crown height will always remain the same whether viewed from the skinny side or the wider side of the EC as it is measured from the girdle and is a percentage of the total depth of the stone.

AChiOAlumna and Ridi,
I am not an expert and don''t claim to be one but I''ve learnt quite a bit in my own search. Ana, Hest and a few old timers here at PS have helped me a lot and I would like to share this knowledge so that others can find their own dream EC. Can you tell I just love ECs?

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/17/2005 1:10:35 PM
Author: Chrono
Ridi,



AChiOAlumna and Ridi,

I am not an expert and don''t claim to be one but I''ve learnt quite a bit in my own search. Ana, Hest and a few old timers here at PS have helped me a lot and I would like to share this knowledge so that others can find their own dream EC. Can you tell I just love ECs?

Oh Chrono....

Take a compliment would you?!

You may not be an expert, but you''ve done research and you have an eye to at least provide us with some type of guideline....like we''ve said before, it''s ultimately up to the eye of the beholder, but having guidelines to make the most of your money is well-appreciated!!!

You''re too funny!

 

[chrono]

AChiOAlumna,
Thanks for the compliments.

I feel my head swelling now.
I recall you shopping for an EC too. How did that go?

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/17/2005 1:17:29 PM
Author: Chrono
AChiOAlumna,

Thanks for the compliments.

I feel my head swelling now.

I recall you shopping for an EC too. How did that go?

Still doing the research myself. DH and I are going down to the LA Jewelry District in a couple of weeks...he thinks I''m being obsessive...he doesn''t know the meaning! LOL I''ve also got an email in by a recommended dealer from Robert Hensley of www.findmyjeweler.com and awaiting a response. At least I''m able to inquire with more than the 4 basic C''s due to all of the information I''ve learned here!!

The only thing that''s driving me crazy is that I''ve got my setting that sits in the box until I get the stone...

I''m getting nervous twitches!!

LOL!!!

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/17/2005 12:52:16 PM
Author: ridi

how can i visiualy measure the crown angle?? compare it to somehting ?? is it possible??

Getting back at the title of this thread...

you may find the experts' chat about cut quality for fancy shapes interesting. Take a look here (especially the post by Robin & Todd).

About looking for crown height: hard to tell. You could compare with a GemCalc model. However, the purpose of all these measurements is to guess if a diamond is brilliant or not quite. Once you have the stone in hand there is no more need to guess by the numbers, IMO.

 

[ridi]

question,
how many degrees angel is suppose to be the crown??? 33 degrees, 25 degrees,

and also imagine for a sec that the top of the diamond is flat and you want ed to build a girdle , what percentage from eaach side would the elevation be???

if you can expalin these things to me in terms of percentage and degrees i think tokmorow when i am looking at some ec''s i will be able to make the right decisison

example

lets say you have something girdle(or the top in our case) tha is 3 by 2
and youare building a crow and the size would be 2 by 1

 

[ridi]

just triyng to prepare my self somehow for tomorow to know what to look for

 

[ridi]

new stone found, comments will look at this one also tomorow

9.86 x 7.34 x 4.49
2.84ct
61.2 depth
78 table
culet - none
med to to thick
polish good
symetry very good
floresence faint

comments??? likes / dissliket the jeweler says it looks great

iwill see tomorow
none of the jewlers i speak to know the crown height
all they say "y do you need it"?? and are verry weird when i ask for it that it is hard to get and stuff

anyway, let me know guy what you think abou t this

thanks

 

[AChiOAlumna]

The table seems large, but without seeing it, it''s hard to tell....

Also (just my gut feeling), if the jeweler responds with a comment like, "Why do you need to have that information?" My gut response would be the desire to reply with, "Why do I need to buy a diamond from you?"

You''re spending a lot of money here (from what I''ve seen in your posts) and jewelers should want to provide you with as much information as possible to show that they are on the up-an-up...

Again...this is just my gut reaction to your story....

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 3/17/2005 5:32:53 PM
Author: AChiOAlumna
The table seems large, but without seeing it, it''s hard to tell....

Also (just my gut feeling), if the jeweler responds with a comment like, ''Why do you need to have that information?'' My gut response would be the desire to reply with, ''Why do I need to buy a diamond from you?''

You''re spending a lot of money here (from what I''ve seen in your posts) and jewelers should want to provide you with as much information as possible to show that they are on the up-an-up...

Again...this is just my gut reaction to your story....

ditto !!!!!!!!!!

78% table is wayyyyyyyy too large

 

[chrono]

Date: 3/17/2005 5:19:14 PM
Author: ridi
new stone found, comments will look at this one also tomorow

9.86 x 7.34 x 4.49
2.84ct
61.2 depth
78 table
culet - none
med to to thick
polish good
symetry very good
floresence faint

comments??? likes / dissliket the jeweler says it looks great

iwill see tomorow
none of the jewlers i speak to know the crown height
all they say ''y do you need it''?? and are verry weird when i ask for it that it is hard to get and stuff

anyway, let me know guy what you think abou t this

thanks

Everything checks out fine except the table. Too big at 78%. This EC will most likely look dead (like a piece of glass). My old EC had stats like this where all the numbers were sweet except the table (near 70%) and it had no life. You do not want this EC.

As the others posters said, you are spending a lot of money so the jewellers had better be able to answer all your questions and give you excellent service.

 

[ridi]

hello all
its me i saw asome stones today and wouldl ike to share some stuff with iou and hear your opinions

#1

2.73 ct
8.97 x 6.88 x 4.83

depth 70.2
table 63
girdle medium to slightly thick
culet - small
polish excelent
symetry very good
vs1
d color
flouresence none

#2
3.03 ct
10.92 x7.24 x 4.36
depth 60.2
table 69
girdle very thin to thin
culet very small
good
good
vs2
f color

#3
9.33 x 6.89 x 4.47
2.7 ct
depth 64.9
table 70
girdle medium
culet none
poluch verry good
symetry verry good
vvs2
F color

#4
3.01 ct
9.67 x 6.93 x 4.71
depth 68
table 67
girdle thin
culet none
polish good
symetry good
vs1
e color
and there is a comment in the gia report saying "surface graining is not shown"????what is this mean

please le t me know which one you like and why??? i am personaly leaning to number one or maybe number 2 bnut willsee more stuff tuesday
if youwe have any winners here please let me know

thanks all especeially valeria, chrono, windowshopper and all others

 

[AChiOAlumna]

I agree...based on numbers alone, #2 seems like your best bet...I wonder what the table will look like on this stone?? You''ll have to let us know!!

 

[emeraldgreen]

Why should table % be less than depth? i am a newbie. i am assuming this will help with brillance?

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/18/2005 8:36:31 PM
Author: emeraldgreen
Why should table % be less than depth? i am a newbie. i am assuming this will help with brillance?

I''m also a newbie here, but from what I''ve read, a large table make the EC stone look "glassy" rather than sparkly, like a diamond should. However, if the depth is too deep, then it can make the diamond look smaller than it''s actual size. This is a real balancing act from what I''ve researched in the last week...

 

[windowshopper]

Date: 3/18/2005 8:36:31 PM
Author: emeraldgreen
Why should table % be less than depth? i am a newbie. i am assuming this will help with brillance?

it shouldnt necessarily be smaller--its just that when it is you often see a crown with the right height and angles..........you can still have a good crown with a table larger than depth

 

[ridi]

what about #1?? what do you htink about that

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/19/2005 1:34:14 PM
Author: ridi
what about #1?? what do you htink about that

You know allot more about these diamonds by now... because you have seen them.

From the other side of the screen all I see is those numbers. Let''s assume I could "call in" just one - then that would be the first (with a semi-educated guess that it might be the brightest). If I could call in two (or ask for one side-by-side photo) it would be the first and the second (still nice numbers and definitely the largest of the bunch).

There''s no precise knowledle behind these sentences - just guesswork with a GemAdviser model. It my hunch matches yours... all for the better. It wasn''t meant to !

 

[ridi]

you dont thinkin number 1 the depth is 2 deep?? is it ok the think is the second one is vs2 , there is a feather in there and under a 10x i was able with jewelers help to see it, that i guess what throws me off i guess but you guys are the experts, so i also want to hear what you have to say about these 2 stones? the second one definatelly looks bigger, but at the same time i do not want to sacrifice size for quality,

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/19/2005 2:9:54 PM
Author: ridi
you dont thinkin number 1 the depth is 2 deep?? is it ok the think is the second one is vs2 , there is a feather in there and under a 10x i was able with jewelers help to see it, that i guess what throws me off i guess but you guys are the experts, so i also want to hear what you have to say about these 2 stones? the second one definatelly looks bigger, but at the same time i do not want to sacrifice size for quality,

Yeah... the first is deeper than I''d want (65 is my "mark" and this is 70...). The small table make me thing "this is one bright bit" and if that''s right I would most likely excuse the half of milimeter lost from it''s aparent size. You have seen it though, not I: was it brigter than the larger one ?

I would not conside an inclusion that is not visible without magnification a flaw or downgrade of "quality". Diamonds are only good to be seen. If something doesn''t show under the same circumstances the stone will be for it''s intended use (meaning without magnification and mostly face up) - it''s not there

 

[ridi]

are you asying the smaller the table the brighter it is???

 

[ridi]

also when you are saying you would excuse half of milimiter of size you are talking about
that you would excuse the depth?? that you would be basicaly ok with the particular depth of this stone becasue the table makes up for it?