is there en expert here on emerald cut diamonds???? i need you r help!!!

[ridi]

hello
i need major help on pickingout a diamond
i saw 3 jewelers all 3 tell me 3 different things
on the internet there is no much help

i found a stone but i dont know if it is a good buy??? what is a good buy???

i found/looking for an emerald cut diamond

there are no parameters anywhere to see if it is a good cut???

i found

d, vs1 excelent, vg, 1.3 ratio, smal culet, table 70, depth 65, not flourescent

what does it mean??? help??

one jewweler says the ratio does not matter, th other say look only at polish and symetry, 3rd says look at table and depth, what is a premium cut??? is what i mentioned above one??? what should i really look for ? what is the industry standard????? what should be the the parameters in the table and deptha dn what are the acceptable ones???? what else is most important besides color and clarity???

what do i do???? if there is anyone that can help me out i would appreciate it ???? further more if there is a gemologist or a prefessional jeweler with references only that know gemstones, and is for hire and is able to go with me spend a few hours and tell me is it a good buy??? am i being take for a ride?? i will pay this person hourly, iam in nyc

please people help tell me everythign for me to know about emerald cut diuamonds, their dimentions and pros, cons, and especially what something will not tell me

thanks

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Ridi...

I by no means am an expert, but I''m going through the same process as I''m looking for an EC too...here''s what I''ve learned from this board thus far:

You want the depth to be about 60-65%...anything deeper than this CAN (doesn''t mean WILL) make the diamond look smaller than the actual carat weight.

The table should be between 60-68%.

Ratio is a personal preference as some people like more square cuts while others like more elongated cuts. I prefer around 1.4 myself.

Crown height should be above 10%...

If you find out anything else, let me know!!!

 

[EuroStyle]

I am looking for one as well...the jewler I am talking with locally is not an expert on EC, but she has some nice rectangular ones in my size and clarity range. I am trying to get a copy of the GIA report, as I assume that will show me the cut proportions of the stones....



Sean

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/15/2005 11:42:53 PM
Author: EuroStyle
I am looking for one as well...the jewler I am talking with locally is not an expert on EC, but she has some nice rectangular ones in my size and clarity range. I am trying to get a copy of the GIA report, as I assume that will show me the cut proportions of the stones....







Sean

Just to let you know...the GIA report WON''T show you the Crown Height...I''ve been told you need a Sarin report for this dimension. Find out if your jeweler can send you a Sarin as well...

 

[chrono]

Here''s my personal preference as well. I chose mine from the AGA EC cut chart and fine tuned it a little for my personal taste. This is the specs I gave my jeweller:

Depth: 62% to 67%
Table: 60% to 65%
Crown: 10% and upwards
Ratio: 1.3 to 1.4
Girdle: No extremely thin or extremely thick (preferably an even girdle)
Polish & Symmetry: Good and above (preferable VG)

Here''s my reasoning:
I didn''t want an EC that is too deep so I tried to keep it at a lower percentage.
I also love the look of a smaller table and prefer it when the table is actually less than the depth or about the same percentage.
Higher crown height usually means more FIRE

I like a squarer look, but not too squarish and not too lean.
An even girdle is safer to set and is also less prone to chipping when worn everyday. If ex thin, then there is a greater risk of chipping. If ex thick, that is hidden weight that may make the EC look a little smaller.
Polish & Symmetry has nothing to do with how well the EC is cut but it can affect the final appreance of the EC. I''m not quite sure how to fully explain this.

In addition to what I''ve typed, I also personally viewed at least 5 ECs (some side by side) before the right one jumped out at me. Take the time to terach your eyes what is a good cut and what is an excellent cut EC. The stats I typed earlier will help narrow down your search to a few potential excellent cut EC, then let your eyes do the choosing.

You can also do a search here on Pricescope for "Ultimate EC" that I started in order to learn what to look for in ECs and how to choose the best one when I was shopping for my upgrade EC.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/15/2005 10:3:26 PM
Author:ridi

i saw 3 jewelers all 3 tell me 3 different things

Well, this just mean there is no industry standard and every seller needs to move their stock - which is perfectly normal, of course. It may well be that they only have limited choice for these stones - it''s not like every show affords to sell only what the owner would like for himself.

Whatever they call the cut "premium", "excellent" whatever - is just valid for that seller. And often there is no guarantee that the show holds on to a consistent standard: after all, every diamond in stock may be called "premium cut" as soon as it hits the counter

Whose'' there to prove otherwise.


It may help if you also learn what you like and ask for it specifically.

From your post it seems that you know what shape (length/width) you like - something close to 1.3:1, which is a shorter rectangle.

The details about cut present on the GIA report are very limited - table & depth data are just good to allow you to avoid some extreme examples that carry obvious detractions (say, near 80% would definitely make the stone look small and about 80% table would make it relatively brittle and perhaps dull too.). Those are not very useful to narrow down the search to the more brilliant emerald cuts.

Chrono''s hints point in this direction. Choosing among stones that have already been selected for brilliance would help allot. IMO, that measn looking at Ideal Scope pictures or similar metrics of light return. Or looking at diamonds in person allright, but that only works as well as your experience allows. If you didn''t have the opportunity to inspect allot of diamonds with a range of proportions in person, it is not quite fair for the seller to let you "judge with your own eye". Saying that, th knows you do not have enough experience to know what to look for. All diamonds look nice by themselves, only some look (way) better than other.

 

[ridi]

i undarstand that evrythign is individual, buti am alsoam dissapointed that there is no industry standard

well can someone than tell me if what i found is good/ bad/ average/above average excelent in you r opinioons???

D
VS1
SYMETRY:---VG
POLISH:---EXCELENT
CULET:---SMALL

TABLE:--- 70
GIRDLE: -- 65 THESE TO MIGHT BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND BUT DEFINATELY THESE NUMBERS

L/W:---- 1.3
FLOURESENT:---- NONE

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK??? WHAT KIND OF CUT IS IT
BY THE WAY I PERSONALY PHYSICALY WENT TO GIA LABORATORY OFFICE AND SEEKED ASSITANCE IN THIS MATTER IN TERMS OF CUTS AND PARAMETER OF EC DIAMOND AND I CAN TELL YOU THIS:

THOSE GUYS ARE USELESS AS NOTHING I HAVE EVER MET

THEY DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ALL THEY DO IS GRADE DIAMONDS. TELL YOU THE PARAMETERS BUT TO TELL YOU WHAT IT HAS TO BE, WHAT IS THE INDUSTRY STANDARD, ANYTHING PERTAINING TO A DIAMONDS CUT QUALITY THEY DO NOT KNOW , SO THE FINAL WORD WHO DOES??? WHO IS AN EXPERTAND WHY???

OPINIONS????

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/16/2005 8:56:34 AM
Author: Chrono
You can also do a search here on Pricescope for ''Ultimate EC'' that I started in order to learn what to look for in ECs and how to choose the best one when I was shopping for my upgrade EC.

Chrono...

Thanks for the link to your older post! I looked it up and it helped SO much with some of the questions that have been lingering in my mind...I''ve been doing A LOT of web research, but my DH wants to actually go down to some recommended dealers in the Jewelry District to purchase the diamond...at least I''ll be able to "see" what I''m looking for side-by-side and I''ll be able to a little more educated when I go in...which will ultimately bite my DH in the butt as it''ll drive him crazy if I don''t see what I want! He He He

 

[diamondsbylauren]

Ridi,
A lot of good points brought up here.
I understand your frustration.
Why shouldn''t there be an "industry standard"?

The reason is that diamonds are very much like art- beauty is subjective.
In terms of L x W, most people will naturally gravitate towards what appeals to them- it doesn''t take any expert to pick what shape one prefers.

But the water is muddied by terms like "Premium Cut" As Ana pointed out, all that means is ....nothing. It is dismaying when sellers use misinformation to try and convince folks to buy. Also disturbing when sellers act like they know something when they happen to be clueless.

Then we have GIA''s Polish /Symmetry grades. A Stone with EX/EX may not be nearly as pretty as one with Good/Good rating on polish/symmerty.
As a matter of fact, theres nothing at all on a GIA report to indicate whether a stone is a "good buy"
No expert can look at what you''ve posted and fairly advise for OR against purchase.

That being said, the numbers from the GIA report you''ve posted don''t make any "red flags" go up.

Here''s what I''d focus on first: Is the seller someone you are comfortable with. Do you have confidence in their ability to make sure you get a desirable diamond?
Once you are comfortable with the seller, all you need do is let them show you diamonds they reccomend, and trust your eyes.

Oh- and if you wanted to post a price, size and quality, I''m sure folks will offer opinions on the value.

 

[ridi]

David,

You are absolutely correct but when someone is charging $20k - $30k for the stone it is a little difficult to trust my eyes and the seller when these sort of figures are involved

anyway the following is :

D
VS1
SYMETRY:---VG
POLISH:---EXCELENT
CULET:---SMALL
TABLE:--- 70
GIRDLE: -- 65 THESE TO MIGHT BE THE OTHER WAY AROUND BUT DEFINATELY THESE NUMBERS
L/W:---- 1.3
FLOURESENT:---- NONE

$35k??

good price ok?? tuu much??? also what is a sarin report?? where do i get it?? how does it help me and what do i look for???

thank you all

 

[ridi]

OPINIONS??? ADVISE??? CONCERNS, LIKES DISSLIKES???????


also here is what else i found

this one is $33,800

2.70 F VVS2 GIA 64.9 70 M N VG VG N 9.33*6.89*4.47 1.35:1.00



This one is $41,000

3.01 F VVS1 GIA 63.2 65 M-STK S G G NON 9.84*7.44*4.70 1.32:1.00




This one is $36,000


3.02 F VS1 GIA 64.9 64 VTN-STK S G G MB 9.86*7.36*4.78 1.34:1.00





this one is $36,000

3.01 E VS1 GIA 64.9 66 MD N G G MB 9.7*7.33*4.76 1.32:1.00

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 12:14:54 PM
Author: ridi

D
VS1
SYMETRY:---VG
POLISH:---EXCELENT
CULET:---SMALL
TABLE:--- 70 (or 65)
GIRDLE: -- 65 (or 70)
L/W:---- 1.3
FLOURESENT:---- NONE
$35k??

Just one thing: I hope it''s "table" instead of "girdle" in your post cites above. Otherwise, the numbers sound pretty tipical for an emerald. The 70% could have been 60% (for either table or depth

) but that''s just trying to say... well, cut could make this look larger than it is. And this is a large diamond to begin with.

You may want to follow the saga of "Windowshopper" and her 3 carat D/VS emerald cut. It''s definitely worth the ride, since she really went through every detail twice.

Price included.

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 12:20:46 PM
Author: ridi
OPINIONS??? ADVISE??? CONCERNS, LIKES DISSLIKES???????

These seem more expensive and less than top color... what''s the gain ? With just as little information (still the darn table & depth and nothing else) there''s no way to tell anything. For me, at least.

For once, it would rather be VS2 than VVS for me - because the price point is more attractive (unless you want to get rid of the cash) and the higher clarity grades simply do not make sense to me - nothing shows there, but neither does in the VS range after all.

If you like "flawless" as a symbol of something, that is fine, of course.

Does it sound unreasonable to ask for a bit better service than reading GIA certs online for 35k ?

It does to me. Even the waiter in a bistro provides more for the small tip

Those numbers and certs are a start. Next comes the seller''s due to show the stone, no ? If they do provide enough detail to allow you to actually compare the stone against others all for the better.

It takes a deep breath for me to imagine comparing diamonds other than viasually. At least in pictures, for starters - perhaps one of those ''scopes may help as well. A 3D Sarin scan (most sellers can procure them, some appraisers do that as well) does help because it contains enough data to recostruct the diamond virtually and analyze the model to death. GIA certs only go a very short way to tell what a diamond looks like. There isn''t enough info there to even draw the outline of an emerald cut

 

[ridi]

ok
bottom line what should i ask the dealer??? i have seen a few ec diamonds but all of them have diffferent stories, one say look at polish, the other say l/w ratio

one question

how crucial is the crown angle??? what should it be?

if the table is 70 how much worse does it make my diamond?
what would be the visual difference between 70 and 60???

thanks verry much

does anyone knows a good ec diamond dealer in NYC that knows his stuff, honest and has good selection???

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/16/2005 1:23:12 PM
Author: ridi
ok

bottom line what should i ask the dealer???

Ridi...I''m feeling your anxiety as I have been going through similar questions....Earlier on this thread, Chrono suggested looking up her old thread with keywords "Ultimate EC" in the title. It''s still there and has LOTS of great information, which has lowered my anxiety since reading it thoroughly.

Ultimately, go in with the guidelines, but ultimately it''s what your eyes/budget will allow. You can post all the stats in the world, but without actually seeing the diamond, no one is going to be able to provide you with what''s a deal and what''s not...

Good luck in finding a reputable dealer in NYC....I''m in that stage here in LA and will probably be buying before the end of the month...

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 1:23:12 PM
Author: ridi
bottom line what should i ask the dealer???

I don't think you could judge an Ec by "crown angle" - there are six of them!

and no hard rules I know of.


10% right or left for table and depth makes some serious difference. This being a rather large diamond, details will definitely show.

For example... do these two look the same to you ?

Assuming the seller will need to order diamonds from his suppliers based on the same GIA specs, I would probably ask for some numbers to begin with: table & depth between 60% and 65%, preferable crown height near 10% or above... You might hear "those stones are too shallow" or "no good" in some way because not very deep cut ECs are just hard to get

Between a couple of diamonds it would make sense to look at shape details and how the stones look in different lights (not just the super bright over the counter lighting) and... why not through an Ideal Scope (= this thing).

Well, just IMO. It ain't hard to picture myself in your shoes !

 

[ridi]

Wow this is what i am looking for

can you tell me the crown when its conted in terms of percentages, it counts as a percent of what??? these are 2 great stones
the only thing i learned is that the girdle is small and can be chipped, thats y they say medium is better, would you agree??? and what about that crown? what rea the parameters also culet if there is a small one how does that effect the diamond????

thanks

 

[ridi]

also theone on the right for some reason to me looks Foggy i guess??? or like mysty??? like there is fog inside maybe its from the flash or the camera other wise they are beautifull where can i buy them?lol

 

[Asschman]

Date: 3/16/2005 3:43:45 PM
Author: ridi
Wow this is what i am looking for

can you tell me the crown when its conted in terms of percentages, it counts as a percent of what??? these are 2 great stones
the only thing i learned is that the girdle is small and can be chipped, thats y they say medium is better, would you agree??? and what about that crown? what rea the parameters also culet if there is a small one how does that effect the diamond????

thanks

Ridi, I understand your anxiety. Finding the right diamond, particularly for an EC which has no defined ideal parameters, can be frustrating. I would suggest you also do a search of the Pscope archives for posts by Kevinraja, who purchased an EC and did a ton of homework in the process. Also, just a stylistic thing, but we understand your confusion--no need for multiple question marks, or capital letter posts.

 

[ridi]

can someone tell me what the table has to be?
and also it is calculated in percents, percents of what?
as i undrastnd this is one of the primary aspects which lights the diamond up?

thanks

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 5

:14 PM
Author: ridi
can someone tell me what the table has to be?
and also it is calculated in percents, percents of what?
as i undrastnd this is one of the primary aspects which lights the diamond up?

#1. "Table lights up diamond" is a totally new concept to me...

#2. Thin girdle may not be such disaster ("extra thin" is considerd fargile around here). "Medium" ceratinly sound ok. I would not be too enthusiastic about a thick one if anything.

#3. "Small culet" - that should mean that the keel on the bottom of the diamond is not sharp, but polished flat a tiny bit. I am not sure what the "tiny bit" is in fractions of a milimeter.


The two pictures come from an online database (see Stuller.com). I do not know the rest of the specs - he image was supposed to present how different those table sizes look.

And yes, you are right about the "hazy" look of the stone to the right - that's glare off the large table facet.

I don't know any place online (or off, actually) that would line up dozens of emerald cut diamonds - let alone 30k pieces - all with known Sarin specs (at least crown height on top of GIA specs) for you to compare.

Only a few sellers seem to select fancies based on brilliance or some clearly defined cut quality, as far as I know. The stones in the Blue Nile's "Signature Collection" come with GCAL lab reports on top of GIA, and those reports have pictures and crown height and more; then NiceIce and GoodOldGold have several stones out there.

 

[valeria101]

About those proportions: the table % is relative to width; depth is relative to width; crown height, girdle width and pavilion depth are relative to total depth.

There is a piece of software that lets you play with these proportions and see what such a stone might look like. It is called "GemCalc" and transforms wireframe drwaing into reasonably realistic 3D models that can be rotated under different lighting. It is free, takes 5 min to learn and the result looks like below:

 

[ridi]

spoke to another jewler today get this

he said

if polish and symetry is excelent , and very good or verry good excelent

then the crown, girdle ,culet table and everything else is ok witht he stone

is that true whats your take on this???

also found out the table on the stone i previousely said is 63

the depth is 70 what do you think?

thanks

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Date: 3/16/2005 5:41:18 PM
Author: ridi
spoke to another jewler today get this


the depth is 70 what do you think?



thanks

I think that depth is too large for me personally...I''ve been told by several sources that a depth < 65% will make the diamond look smaller than it really is. According to the AGA parameters a diamond in the 1A to 2A catagory, the depth will be 60-65%.

 

[valeria101]

Have you seen these stones ?

I don''t think the finish grades are that critical (polish and symmetry that is). GIA''s own cut study concludes the same... this s not just my opinion.

To each his own...

 

[ridi]

what does it mean too deep? its deeper than longer??? if the only thing wrong is the depth which is 70 and everything else is ok why is it not a good buy?

this is too much info, i have a big mess in my heaqd and i am doubting ebverything i see and cant find anything, one diamond depth is bad, the other table, the other inclusioins are too big is there realy a solution?
also it is verry difficutl to find a diaond with the parameters which we are talking about that is 2.5 ct - 3.00ct???

the fact is even if someone wants to spend 30-40k on a stone he still cant find what he wants quality wise

 

[valeria101]

Date: 3/16/2005 8:5:30 PM
Author: ridi

i am doubting everything i see and cant find anything

Doubt is not going to help allot... there''s isn''t much choice than to trust a seller in the end.

I am sorry for the load of data. There''s allot of it tossed around on Pricescope

and it is easy to get bogged down in details (like those posts of mine above)

None of those diamonds is "bad". There would always be slightly "better"... by one account or another.

This really is your choice and only yours.

 

[chrono]

Ridi,
Slow down.

Let me see if I can answer some of your questions. You have so many that I don't know where to start.

This one is $41,000
3.01 F VVS1 GIA 63.2 65 M-STK S G G NON 9.84*7.44*4.70 1.32:1.00
Here's a few drawbacks to this stone that you might fine acceptable or not. This could be a promising stone.
Table and depth look good and within the AGA 1A chart.
The vvs1 is overkill though and that's why the price is a lot more than the others.
The 1.32 ratio is pleasing to me. Is it pleasing to you too?
What is the crown height?

This one is $36,000
3.02 F VS1 GIA 64.9 64 VTN-STK S G G MB 9.86*7.36*4.78 1.34:1.00
Table and depth look good and within the AGA 1A chart.
There is some loss of size in it's face up appearance in its vtn-stk girdle but it might be acceptable to you.
The 1.34 ratio is pleasing to me. Is it pleasing to you too?
What is the crown height?

This one is $36,000
3.01 E VS1 GIA 64.9 66 MD N G G MB 9.7*7.33*4.76 1.32:1.00
Table and depth look good and within the AGA 1A/1B chart.
I like 1.32 ratios. Do you like it too?
What is the crown height?

To get a better understanding of what ratios you like, go here: http://www.gemappraisers.com/ and click on the Fancy Shape Selector on the left hand column.

 

[chrono]

Date: 3/16/2005 1:23:12 PM
Author: ridi
ok
bottom line what should i ask the dealer??? i have seen a few ec diamonds but all of them have diffferent stories, one say look at polish, the other say l/w ratio

one question

how crucial is the crown angle??? what should it be?

if the table is 70 how much worse does it make my diamond?
what would be the visual difference between 70 and 60???

thanks verry much

does anyone knows a good ec diamond dealer in NYC that knows his stuff, honest and has good selection???

The l/w ratio is a personal preference. Some like the square look (1.0), matchbox (1.3), "classic" (1.5) or lean (1.7)
As I said earlier, play around with the ratios in Gemappraiser's Fancy Shape Sslector.

If it is a GIA cert, ask for a Sarin report to get the crown height.
There are so many crown angles that it's no use asking for that. Crown height is sufficient.

A larger table gives you a glassy look. It will not give much brilliance. It also sometimes gives a foggy appearance when there is a glare on the table. Most people do not care for this look, hence the recommendation for a small table.

The difference between a 70% table and 60% table is significant. I believe Ana has already posted an example earlier in this thread.

An excellent vendor would be Mark http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/

 

[chrono]

Date: 3/16/2005 5:41:18 PM
Author: ridi
spoke to another jewler today get this

he said

if polish and symetry is excelent , and very good or verry good excelent

then the crown, girdle ,culet table and everything else is ok witht he stone

is that true whats your take on this???

also found out the table on the stone i previousely said is 63

the depth is 70 what do you think?

thanks

I'm afraid I don't fully agree with the jeweller. Yes, if the polish and symmetry is excellent, then the EC was well cut. The facets are aligned and smooth. However, it doesn't mean that the EC was cut to a high level of optical performance. The AGA chart will help tell you which stones were cut to make the EC "alive". The EC does not have to have excellent polish and symmetry. Personally, a VG is fine for me. For others, Good is acceptable for them.

A table of 63% is very ideal.
A depth of 70% is frowned upon because it will make the EC look smaller. Sometimes, a LOT smaller than it should.