Is there a solution to USA Partisanship (and in other nations)?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

From the Economist Magazine:
Before the presidential election 50% of Democrats believed that the economy was getting better, against just 6% of Republicans. Today 8% of Democrats and 49% of Republicans respond in the same way.
I never or rarely post here, and I know sometimes Ella has to moderate behaviors here.
From what I just posted it seems nonsensical that a nation can be so divided. But as an Aussie when talking to Americans I often say "We are a day ahead and a decade behind USA". I feel we are headed down the same route - as are several previously mild mannered European nations - think Holland and Sweden!

 

[Matata]

I don't know if it will help US defeat partisanship but these are some of the changes I'd like to see:

No political parties; ranked choice voting; candidates explain what they stand for and how they can improve the country. Labels are part of the problem.

Government pays for federal elections & state's pay for state elections -- same amount to every candidate to spend on their campaigns and no PACs or lobbyists or outside campaign contributions. Need to get big money out of elections.

Term limits and age limits.

A more educated (about government) and engaged electorate although I have no idea how to make that happen.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I don't know if it will help US defeat partisanship but these are some of the changes I'd like to see:

No political parties; ranked choice voting; candidates explain what they stand for and how they can improve the country. Labels are part of the problem.

Government pays for federal elections & state's pay for state elections -- same amount to every candidate to spend on their campaigns and no PACs or lobbyists or outside campaign contributions. Need to get big money out of elections.

Term limits and age limits.

A more educated (about government) and engaged electorate although I have no idea how to make that happen.

Wouldn't we all Matata?
Here is some more fuel for the crazyness:

 

[ShinyPink]

@Matata We need to make it easier to vote, and making it a national holiday would go a long way!

 

[Matata]

I forgot to mention getting rid of the Electoral College.

 

[kenny]

I forgot to mention getting rid of the Electoral College.

But but but, then those people would never win.

 

[Matata]

But but but, then those people would never win.

They'd still have a chance if we did ranked choice voting and got rid of party affiliation. I know, I know it's a pipe dream.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

@Matata We need to make it easier to vote, and making it a national holiday would go a long way!

Or vote on weekends like the rest of the world!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I was wrong - of the half the world that get to vote about half hold elections weekdays.

 

[Avondale]

No political parties; ranked choice voting; candidates explain what they stand for and how they can improve the country. Labels are part of the problem.

Sounds good in theory, doesn't work nearly as well in practice.

The problem isn't the existence of parties. I live in a country with a multi-party system, people here also blame the parties, some even believe a two-party system like the US has is the solution (it's not). We did already implement an addition to the voting process in the spirit of what you're suggesting, where people can cast a preferential vote for specific members of each party, indicating they want these particular people in government. And while it's definitely a step in the right direction and I wouldn't want it reversed, it's also not the magical solution some people believed it would be.

It's not the parties. It's the voters. And the voters will keep presenting a problem with a no-party system just the same.

Just imagine this. Having to elect a parliament that has 100, 200 members. For each of those seats you have a number of people competing. You have hundreds upon hundreds of candidates. A thousand maybe... even easily.

Imagine what it would feel like to be drowned in a thousand political campaigns when an election starts nearing.

Ok, the US is a federation comprised of 50 states, so let's say each state will elect a certain number of members of whatever collective government body needs to be elected. So you won't be drowning in a thousand election campaigns, you'll only have 20 to deal with. Much more manageable.

Now, how many people do you believe will take the time to properly get acquainted with each candidate's campaign, priorities, programme and promises? How many people will cast their vote having made an informed choice? Especially knowing how people vote now?

To have such a system in place work properly, you need a very well developed democratic society with a very high level of civic awareness. How many places in the world have that? The party system is a necessary crutch. Without it, people would become even more disinterested in voting and in the political process simply because it is too complicated and time consuming for them. It will erode democracy rather than strengthen it.

 

[Ella]

Folks, please remember that we don’t allow comparing of political parties or politicians. Please keep the discussion at a high-level.

 

[Matata]

The problem isn't the existence of parties.

Parties are founded on ideology and tend to become entrenched in their beliefs to the exclusion of all others; loyalty to ideology becomes the test of whether one is a good servant of the party rather than a good servant of the country and that's why I rebel against parties, they become inflexible and tribal. The US is currently a poster child for how badly things can get when one is married to an ideology to the exclusion of all others.

I agree that voters are the problem. Many are single-issue voters and woefully lacking in the ability to think critically. It will be difficult to raise future generations of civic minded and engaged people when education is under assault as it is here currently.

 

[Avondale]

Parties are founded on ideology and tend to become entrenched in their beliefs to the exclusion of all others; loyalty to ideology becomes the test of whether one is a good servant of the party rather than a good servant of the country and that's why I rebel against parties, they become inflexible and tribal.

All of that is correct and precisely the reason why I personally believe a multi-party system is preferable.

When you only have two parties (or, god forbid, just one), and that's the status quo, you're naturally funneled into making a choice. It becomes an "us against them" type of situation. Especially when said two parties have been all your parents and your grandparents have known, so the generational element comes into it. It has the potential for total indoctrination.

When you have 20 parties instead, and people have the freedom to gather and form a new one at any point in time, party loyalty plays a much lesser role. Citizens shift their support all the time, and they can vote for someone new every election that comes, if they so choose.

Of course, a multi-party system comes with its own issues - it's very rare for someone to hold all the power, and everyone ultimately ends up compromising on things that matter to them. It also makes it more difficult to get the actual job done, much like a group project in school.

Many are single-issue voters and woefully lacking in the ability to think critically. It will be difficult to raise future generations of civic minded and engaged people when education is under assault as it is here currently.

You hit the nail right on the head. It's funny how the answer 75% of the time boils down to the need to prioritise education. In order for a society to be successful, it needs to start valuing education as both right and obligation of every citizen, instead of a commodity for sale. We only need to look at the Scandinavian countries to see the example put in practice and the results achieved.

 

[Matata]

All of that is correct and precisely the reason why I personally believe a multi-party system is preferable.

I'd be content if we had a healthy multi-party system here. Perhaps the schisms within our 2 dominant parties will result in better opportunities for our fledgling parties. Maybe defectors from the 2 dominant parties will either join a fledgling one or start new ones. One can only hope. Unfortunately it will not address the root causes of ignorant voters.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

@Matata We need to make it easier to vote, and making it a national holiday would go a long way!

making it at the weekend would help

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

I was wrong - of the half the world that get to vote about half hold elections weekdays.

i am shocked at this

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

i am shocked at this

For clarity, citizens of the USA have many days to vote other than one day of the week. One may early vote up to 10 days before election day and one may vote absentee if one is traveling or temporarily at a different address by mailing their votes prior to election day.

There definitely is an option to vote on more than one day.

 

[Calliecake]

For clarity, citizens of the USA have many days to vote other than one day of the week. One may early vote up to 10 days before election day and one may vote absentee if one is traveling or temporarily at a different address by mailing their votes prior to election day.

There definitely is an option to vote on more than one day.

And they gerymander districts in a way to favor one party winning elections. Gerrymandering makes it nearly impossible for poor people to be respresented fairly. It’s not unheard of these areas having to wait hours to cast a vote with very few polling places. While other districts where weathlier people reside have multiple polling places with extremely easy accessablity. They do everything possible to make voting more difficult in poorer areas. They don’t want poor people voting.

 

[JustLookin54345]

For clarity, citizens of the USA have many days to vote other than one day of the week. One may early vote up to 10 days before election day and one may vote absentee if one is traveling or temporarily at a different address by mailing their votes prior to election day.

There definitely is an option to vote on more than one day.

This is not true. It is different in every state, and in some states you can only vote on election day. Notice which states make it easier or harder for people to vote and ask yourself why.

https://www.vote411.org/voting-rules

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

Distilled, it is thus: Until there is agreement on shared fact/reality there will be the division we see now.
Tribalism, misinformation and disinformation are overwhelming the system.
Unfair and discriminatory voting practices/suppression have been the historical norm.
There used to be a Fairness Doctrine to try and equalize, this was abolished and the rise of what we deal with now was the result.
It should be reinstated and applied across all mediums. All claims would have to be factually substantiated and opposing view presented at the point of claim with equal time.

 

[Tartansparkles]

And they gerymander districts in a way to favor one party winning elections. Gerrymandering makes it nearly impossible for poor people to be respresented fairly. It’s not unheard of these areas having to wait hours to cast a vote with very few polling places. While other districts where weathlier people reside have multiple polling places with extremely easy accessablity. They do everything possible to make voting more difficult in poorer areas. They don’t want poor people voting.

Thanks for this comment, this is something I haven't had cause to think about. I'm interested to find out to what extent this happens in the UK.

In the UK, our election day is always a Thursday. The polls are open from 7am -10pm and I have always lived with walking distance of a polling station. If you know you are going to be away from home on voting day then there are options to submit a postal vote.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

For clarity, citizens of the USA have many days to vote other than one day of the week. One may early vote up to 10 days before election day and one may vote absentee if one is traveling or temporarily at a different address by mailing their votes prior to election day.

There definitely is an option to vote on more than one day.

very good to know
i always vote early myself in case i break something or get sick or what ever

 

[kenny]

Solution to partisanship?

Humans unite into groups of their kind.
Charcoal briquettes lose warmth if all alone.
It's like some kind of magnetic phenomenon.

Others become ... OTHERS!
MY TRIBE VS. YOUR TRIBE.
Compete to WIN!

IMO PS Hangout has been so long-lived because the vast majority of us are from the same side of the aisle.

I'd bet it originated even before we humans evolved into Homo sapiens.
The dominate cave people got the best food and shelter, giving their offspring the best odds of survival to reproduce.
Darwin.

Superiority baby, Superiority.
Everyone needs to feel superior.
Superiority is oxygen to an ugly part of each of us.
Even those who insist they don't feel superior, get to feel superior by doing go.
Superiority is inescapable.
Maybe that's today's Darwin.

Be superior ... join my religion.
You'll live forever.
Eternal life? Sheesh! ... That's gotta be the ultimate superiority delusion!

And today the rate at which superiority-seeking humans are getting stoopider is skyrocketing.
Why? Two words ... Social Media.

We're doomed.
As @missy mentioned, I'm glad I'm in the last lap of this rat race.

 

[missy]

We're doomed.
As @missy mentioned, I'm glad I'm in the last lap of this rat race.

Yes this is how I feel. What the world is facing feels disastrous

And Kenny, I know this won't matter to you but I have to share how I am feeling. Thank you. Thank you for your posts and for your insight on many issues. I just read something you posted in another thread and could not agree more. I could not write how I am feeling in that thread (for reasons I wont go into) but I read your post nodding the whole way. Why is it only you and I can see through some people? I have always been intuitive and for the most part (not always) a good judge of character. It seems many are easily fooled. People write what others want to hear. That will never be me (I always post how I feel rather than trying to be a people pleaser) and from my years here I know that will never be you either. To each their own. But once I see someone for who they are I never forget it. So thanks for that post. I thought I was alone in how I was feeling

 

[kenny]

Thanks missy.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

This is not true. It is different in every state, and in some states you can only vote on election day. Notice which states make it easier or harder for people to vote and ask yourself why.

https://www.vote411.org/voting-rules

Per AI:

While some states have stricter rules and fewer options for voting before Election Day, all states provide at least some way for eligible voters to cast a ballot without being physically present at a polling place on Election Day.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

And they gerymander districts in a way to favor one party winning elections. Gerrymandering makes it nearly impossible for poor people to be respresented fairly. It’s not unheard of these areas having to wait hours to cast a vote with very few polling places. While other districts where weathlier people reside have multiple polling places with extremely easy accessablity. They do everything possible to make voting more difficult in poorer areas. They don’t want poor people voting.

Clarity about gerrymandering, that's what you call it when the other party which is in power at the moment realigns districts. The exaggeration about wealthy people can vote anywhere and the poor people have to walk through deep snow and uphill all the way makes me laugh.

Voting is not difficult and there is not an accommodation to make a golden path for the rich. Voting takes places in school auditoriums or in public buildings with handicap access or that type of setting.

 

[Sunrises Sunsets]

Solution to partisanship?

Humans unite into groups of their kind.
Charcoal briquettes lose warmth if all alone.
It's like some kind of magnetic phenomenon.

Others become ... OTHERS!
MY TRIBE VS. YOUR TRIBE.
Compete to WIN!

IMO PS Hangout has been so long-lived because the vast majority of us are from the same side of the aisle.

I'd bet it originated even before we humans evolved into Homo sapiens.
The dominate cave people got the best food and shelter, giving their offspring the best odds of survival to reproduce.
Darwin.

Superiority baby, Superiority.
Everyone needs to feel superior.
Superiority is oxygen to an ugly part of each of us.
Even those who insist they don't feel superior, get to feel superior by doing go.
Superiority is inescapable.
Maybe that's today's Darwin.

Be superior ... join my religion.
You'll live forever.
Eternal life? Sheesh! ... That's gotta be the ultimate superiority delusion!

And today the rate at which superiority-seeking humans are getting stoopider is skyrocketing.
Why? Two words ... Social Media.

We're doomed.
As @missy mentioned, I'm glad I'm in the last lap of this rat race.

I totally agree about social media but other than that..

How is it that some of the kindest, humblest and hard working people for those who struggle in life believe in God? Would you really think the world in which we live would be a better place without our faith?

Superiority is alive and well but not in all people. I think people are competitive but they don't all strive for superiority. We all know when we've crossed paths with someone of that mindset.

But other than those items, I think you're spot on! (I'm smirking here... love ya Kenny!)