shape
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Is the Size Difference Significant Enough?

lucida818

Shiny_Rock
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Sep 5, 2015
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336
Like others have said, I definitely see the size difference but not significant enough to spend 7k for it.
I would continue saving to cross the 2.5 mark & I wouldn’t compromise color for size as I am quite color sensitive.
Like you, I am saving & waiting to upgrade from my current 2.14ct (8.3mm) to 9mm hopefully =)2
 

monipod

Brilliant_Rock
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Jun 25, 2019
Messages
844
I would wait, as others have suggested. An upgrade should be a 'WOW' experience and that size difference isn't going to give you that I feel. My biggest stone is 2.2ct and I've decided to wait for when I can afford a 2.8-3ct stone so I can really feel like I've upgraded.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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Apr 23, 2018
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OMG, you are too sweet to go through all the trouble with the measurements. Actually, mine is 8.24x8.27 - not sure what the measurements of the 2.41 are as it is not cut yet. I just always imagined that I would need 2.6 in order to see "a wow" factor.
Layla has suggested for me to go to Tiffany to see if they have something close to 2.4 and compare.

Below are the reference stones I used to arrive at my comparison of 8.30 vs 8.60 on the spreads:

HPD CBI 2.13 = 8.27 x 8.32

WF ACA 2.41 = 8.61 x 8.63

While there are minute differences in the proportions of each stone, they are actually pretty well on-par with one another, so dimensionally they scale very well. This was important because weight is such a subjective thing to compare. The various proportions can make even ideal cut stones size a hair large, small or average for their weight.

Obviously I didn't have your exact specs, so I was just trying to find equals to give a fair representation. It looks like I was a bit off.

Posting the links here to illustrate my points above, I realized how comparable they were to each other both being I color. And just 1 grade of clarity difference between the two. Yet the same overall dollars, which obviously jumped out to me because of the carat weight difference.

Not trying to push you towards WF or anything like that. In fact when I searched for size comparisons I was hopeful I'd find that 2.41 you were considering upgrading to; however, HPD didn't have anything even close to 2.41 listed on their site, which is why I searched on WF's site.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 8, 2008
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46,380
Late to this thread but sharing my thoughts.

One, I definitely see the size difference and given your finger size I think it would be impactful. Two, how much more would it be if you were to go for your dream size of 2.6? How much above the 7K would that cost?

If getting this larger stone would eventually allow you to get the 2.6 dream stone (when it comes available) then you can look at it as the stepping stone (haha no pun intended) to your dream stone.

However, if your dream stone (size/color etc) is available on the CBI site now and it is doable in the budget I say go for that now rather than wait. if you can. if not and this stone might allow you to get to your HG stone eventually then go for this one. IIRC CBI has a great upgrade policy so you cannot go wrong either way.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
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@missy right now there is a gap in HPD inventory from 2.13 to 3.12 carats.

Not to say Wink doesn’t have something brewing behind the scenes. Obviously he does because the 2.41 @daisygrl referenced earlier isn’t listed yet either. And upstream she noted she didn’t know the dimensions as it hadn’t been graded yet.
537FFDC6-FA3C-42C7-B7AB-FA8A880A3D8C.jpeg
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
I would wait, as others have suggested. An upgrade should be a 'WOW' experience and that size difference isn't going to give you that I feel. My biggest stone is 2.2ct and I've decided to wait for when I can afford a 2.8-3ct stone so I can really feel like I've upgraded.

I agree that the upgrade should be felt as an upgrade. I need to keep in mind the settings I will be paying for if I go from stone to stone (the setting I have now was a custom, far more expensive than I would be willing to pay now if I had known better back then).
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
Late to this thread but sharing my thoughts.

One, I definitely see the size difference and given your finger size I think it would be impactful. Two, how much more would it be if you were to go for your dream size of 2.6? How much above the 7K would that cost?

If getting this larger stone would eventually allow you to get the 2.6 dream stone (when it comes available) then you can look at it as the stepping stone (haha no pun intended) to your dream stone.

However, if your dream stone (size/color etc) is available on the CBI site now and it is doable in the budget I say go for that now rather than wait. if you can. if not and this stone might allow you to get to your HG stone eventually then go for this one. IIRC CBI has a great upgrade policy so you cannot go wrong either way.

I am waiting for Layla to give me a price range for 2.6 but in an I color (cannot do an H at this moment as I have just finished a Ph.D. and have a law school as well that finished long ago but still paying for so lots of student loans - but still need a bling. :wall:)
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
Below are the reference stones I used to arrive at my comparison of 8.30 vs 8.60 on the spreads:

HPD CBI 2.13 = 8.27 x 8.32

WF ACA 2.41 = 8.61 x 8.63

While there are minute differences in the proportions of each stone, they are actually pretty well on-par with one another, so dimensionally they scale very well. This was important because weight is such a subjective thing to compare. The various proportions can make even ideal cut stones size a hair large, small or average for their weight.

Obviously I didn't have your exact specs, so I was just trying to find equals to give a fair representation. It looks like I was a bit off.

Posting the links here to illustrate my points above, I realized how comparable they were to each other both being I color. And just 1 grade of clarity difference between the two. Yet the same overall dollars, which obviously jumped out to me because of the carat weight difference.

Not trying to push you towards WF or anything like that. In fact when I searched for size comparisons I was hopeful I'd find that 2.41 you were considering upgrading to; however, HPD didn't have anything even close to 2.41 listed on their site, which is why I searched on WF's site.

No, HPD does not have it - it is cut-to-order from them. So, I know really nothing about the stone except that it is estimated to be 2.41, H, VS2. If one contacts HPD with certain specs, they can source the stone for you - it will just take a while to have it done so one must be patient. One also has to pay the price difference beforehand.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
No, HPD does not have it - it is cut-to-order from them. So, I know really nothing about the stone except that it is estimated to be 2.41, H, VS2. If one contacts HPD with certain specs, they can source the stone for you - it will just take a while to have it done so one must be patient. One also has to pay the price difference beforehand.

That makes more sense. Thanks for the additional clarification.

Have you given any consideration to paying off those school loans before upgrading the bling? I know it would be a sacrifice, but maybe after that delayed gratification, hard work and additional cash flow it grows from a 2.13 to 3.13 carat stone. :eek2:

Just food for thought. :cool2:
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
That makes more sense. Thanks for the additional clarification.

Have you given any consideration to paying off those school loans before upgrading the bling? I know it would be a sacrifice, but maybe after that delayed gratification, hard work and additional cash flow it grows from a 2.13 to 3.13 carat stone. :eek2:

Just food for thought. :cool2:

Well, the thing is that student loans will take many years to pay off and I am not getting any younger so I would like to enjoy 2.6ct before my hand gets too wrinkly. :shock: I would not mind having 2.6ct once purusing further my careers. Then, once the hand gets wrinkly, I can move to 3.13ct - I will definitely need a bigger one later on to be able to see it.:lol:
 
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diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
57,599
I definitely consider that it is a visible size difference! Don't sacrifice color. I think you'd be disappointed going from high H to I color. You may find this is your ideal size. There is not a price jump at 2.5 other than the amount for the weight increase.

As for those who say wait and save up, you technically are putting $7k toward the next diamond if you buy this one. No one knows what diamond prices will be in the next couple of years. I do think HPD prices are high. I couldn't find a comp for you in H color, but this 2.70 G VS2 at WF is $39,737 wire, which I consider a good price for those specs.


Just saying, prices may go higher. I'd grab this one while you can and just get them to replace the head in your current ring to fit the new stone. I did that when I first got my AVR and wore it for years. It's very inexpensive to do that. I was comparing a 2.12 and this 2.29 at that time. Yes, it was a visible difference! Oh, and I just increased my studs from 1.3 to 1.6 cts each, and it was more than $7k!
 
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daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
I definitely consider that it is a visible size difference! Don't sacrifice color. I think you'd be disappointed going from high H to I color. You may find this is your ideal size. There is not a price jump at 2.5 other than the amount for the weight increase.

As for those who say wait and save up, you technically are putting $7k toward the next diamond if you buy this one. No one knows what diamond prices will be in the next couple of years. I do think HPD prices are high. I couldn't find a comp for you in H color, but this 2.70 G VS2 at WF is $39,737 wire, which I consider a good price for those specs.


Just saying, prices may go higher. I'd grab this one while you can and just get them to replace the head in your current ring to fit the new stone. I did that when I first got my AVR and wore it for years. It's very inexpensive to do that. I was comparing a 2.12 and this 2.29 at that time. Yes, it was a visible difference! Oh, and I just increased my studs from 1.3 to 1.6 cts each, and it was more than $7k!

That is interesting. I have always thought that you need to pay premium each time you pass .5ct (and even more of a premium once you pass a full carat). If what you said is the case, I would not hesitate to go for 2.5.

Regarding the head, according to HPD, the way they crafted the setting, they told me the head cannot be removed and I will need a new setting. However, when I asked DK, he said he could do the setting for a fraction of what HPD charges. HPD is, indeed, overpriced, compared to other vendors. They just happened to have a stone that I desired at the time I was looking so I ended up with them.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
Well, the thing is that student loans will take many years to pay off and I am not getting any younger so I would like to enjoy 2.6ct before my hand gets too wrinkly. :shock: I would not mind having 2.6ct once purusing further my careers. Then, once the hand gets wrinkly, I can move to 3.13ct - I will definitely need a bigger one later on to be able to see it.:lol:

Let me throw another monkey wrench in your plan. Get lasik surgery for $5k and and continue to see & enjoy the 2.60!

Better yet get the 3.13 first, then get lasik and feel like you have a 4 carat honker! :lol:


I definitely consider that it is a visible size difference! Don't sacrifice color. I think you'd be disappointed going from high H to I color. You may find this is your ideal size. There is not a price jump at 2.5 other than the amount for the weight increase.

As for those who say wait and save up, you technically are putting $7k toward the next diamond if you buy this one. No one knows what diamond prices will be in the next couple of years. I do think HPD prices are high. I couldn't find a comp for you in H color, but this 2.70 G VS2 at WF is $39,737 wire, which I consider a good price for those specs.


Just saying, prices may go higher. I'd grab this one while you can and just get them to replace the head in your current ring to fit the new stone. I did that when I first got my AVR and wore it for years. It's very inexpensive to do that. I was comparing a 2.12 and this 2.29 at that time. Yes, it was a visible difference! Oh, and I just increased my studs from 1.3 to 1.6 cts each, and it was more than $7k!

That would be an interesting scenario. Aside from personal preference for one brand or another, there would be a few cost implications to consider as well.

1. Original price paid for the CBI stone.

2. Will WF even take on trade? This could be a sticky scenario for them to accept.

3. Assuming WF accepted, at what trade value? Assume it has to be some % less than the current market value of a comparable ACA, otherwise, they de-value their own line with a trade.

4. One potential stone to set trade expectations: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2994224.htm

$26,500 / 2.218 = $11,948 per carat x 2.13 = $25,449 x 0.90 = $22,904

Probably not exact, but gives you the logic to arrive at a number, assuming 90% value holds true. Again, I'd expect them to NOT give 100% value of their own ACA line. They still have to condition & get graded under the WF name.

5. How the original CBI price compares against the WF trade offer, and how both would compare against the 80% lifetime buy-back policy on the CBI stone.

6. Playing the speculation game, here are some potential scenarios:
  • Assumed original price of 2.13 CBI = $25,000
  • WF price for 2.70 = $40,000
  • WF trade value for 2.13 CBI = $23,000
  • 80% buy-back value = $20,000
  • Assume will use WF trade value as it's > CBI 80% buy-back offer
  • Total price to upgrade to CBI 2.41 = $25,000 + $7,000 = $32,000
  • Total price to upgrade to WF 2.70 G-VS2 = $23,000 + $17,000 = $40,000
  • Total price to upgrade to WF 2.638 H-SI1 = $23,000 + $5,000 = $28,000
  • Cost for new and/or modified setting = $2,000 +/-
  • In both scenarios with trade to WF, you have to factor in the $2,000 difference from original price paid vs trade value, so total realized cost would be $42k & 30k, respectively.
 
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diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,599
Let me throw another monkey wrench in your plan. Get lasik surgery for $5k and and continue to see & enjoy the 2.60!

Better yet get the 3.13 first, then get lasik and feel like you have a 4 carat honker! :lol:




That would be an interesting scenario. Aside from personal preference for one brand or another, there would be a few cost implications to consider as well.

1. Original price paid for the CBI stone.

2. Will WF even take on trade? This could be a sticky scenario for them to accept.

3. Assuming WF accepted, at what trade value? Assume it has to be some % less than the current market value of a comparable ACA, otherwise, they de-value their own line with a trade.

4. One potential stone to set trade expectations: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2994224.htm

$26,500 / 2.218 = $11,948 per carat x 2.13 = $25,449 x 0.90 = $22,904

Probably not exact, but gives you the logic to arrive at a number, assuming 90% value holds true. Again, I'd expect them to NOT give 100% value of their own ACA line. They still have to condition & get graded under the WF name.

5. How the original CBI price compares against the WF trade offer, and how both would compare against the 80% lifetime buy-back policy on the CBI stone.

6. Playing the speculation game, here are some potential scenarios:
  • Assumed original price of 2.13 CBI = $25,000
  • WF price for 2.70 = $40,000
  • WF trade value for 2.13 CBI = $23,000
  • 80% buy-back value = $20,000
  • Assume will use WF trade value as it's > CBI 80% buy-back offer
  • Total price to upgrade to CBI 2.41 = $25,000 + $7,000 = $32,000
  • Total price to upgrade to WF 2.70 G-VS2 = $23,000 + $17,000 = $40,000
  • Total price to upgrade to WF 2.638 H-SI1 = $23,000 + $5,000 = $28,000
  • Cost for new and/or modified setting = $2,000 +/-
  • In both scenarios with trade to WF, you have to factor in the $2,000 difference from original price paid vs trade value, so total realized cost would be $42k & 30k, respectively.

Sledge, in no way was I suggesting that she change to WF. She has a CBI stone and needs to upgrade to another CBI. Sometimes you have a tendency to overanalyze! I was just showing her that a stone over 2.5 isn't necessarily exorbitant in cost with a WF example since CBI is apparently low on stones over 2 cts and that I think she should buy the 2.4 CBI.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jan 11, 2006
Messages
57,599
That is interesting. I have always thought that you need to pay premium each time you pass .5ct (and even more of a premium once you pass a full carat). If what you said is the case, I would not hesitate to go for 2.5.

Regarding the head, according to HPD, the way they crafted the setting, they told me the head cannot be removed and I will need a new setting. However, when I asked DK, he said he could do the setting for a fraction of what HPD charges. HPD is, indeed, overpriced, compared to other vendors. They just happened to have a stone that I desired at the time I was looking so I ended up with them.

That is true in the one carat range that there is a price increase at 1.5. But to show you an example of two WF stones (because they happen to have two just under and just over 2.5) and they are only $2200 difference in price:



I totally understand about finding the right stone! It just gets complicated to upgrade, which you are unfortunately finding out. I think Wink said they'd be increasing inventory, so that may help in the future!

Can you show me a picture of your setting? A side view? I just want to see how it compares to mine. DK might be able to change the head.
 

sledge

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 23, 2018
Messages
5,110
Sledge, in no way was I suggesting that she change to WF. She has a CBI stone and needs to upgrade to another CBI. Sometimes you have a tendency to overanalyze! I was just showing her that a stone over 2.5 isn't necessarily exorbitant in cost with a WF example since CBI is apparently low on stones over 2 cts and that I think she should buy the 2.4 CBI.

Sorry for the over-analyzation & implications that were apparently received.

I never took it as you were advocating for a vendor switch. I don't support that either. I just found the situation interesting is all.

I will reign it back. :cool2:
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
Sledge, in no way was I suggesting that she change to WF. She has a CBI stone and needs to upgrade to another CBI. Sometimes you have a tendency to overanalyze! I was just showing her that a stone over 2.5 isn't necessarily exorbitant in cost with a WF example since CBI is apparently low on stones over 2 cts and that I think she should buy the 2.4 CBI.
Oh, in no way I have taken it as you suggesting me to switch to WF. I have been on this side long enough to come up with that on my own. Meaning, it did cross my mind. PS ruined me. lol :lol:
 

elizat

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,980
That makes more sense. Thanks for the additional clarification.

Have you given any consideration to paying off those school loans before upgrading the bling? I know it would be a sacrifice, but maybe after that delayed gratification, hard work and additional cash flow it grows from a 2.13 to 3.13 carat stone. :eek2:

Just food for thought. :cool2:

I think this comment was well intended, but honestly, with the debt that most people have from graduate programs such as a doctorate or a law degree, if you waited until those degrees were completely paid off to have discretionary purchases, you'd be years and years in. I say that is someone that has that debt and has been paying it for 15 years now, with a balance still.

I don't think the point of the thread was to discuss the original posters personal finances.
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
Sorry for the over-analyzation & implications that were apparently received.

I never took it as you were advocating for a vendor switch. I don't support that either. I just found the situation interesting is all.

I will reign it back. :cool2:

Sledge, you have been missed for so long that I appreciate all your inputs, including the lasik surgery. :lol: I do overanalyze as you (and most of us here). That is why I came to PS for advice. I thought I would easily decide on my own but who was I kidding. Where else I can get 400 more ideas about what I should do than here.:appl:
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 30, 2019
Messages
757
That is true in the one carat range that there is a price increase at 1.5. But to show you an example of two WF stones (because they happen to have two just under and just over 2.5) and they are only $2200 difference in price:



I totally understand about finding the right stone! It just gets complicated to upgrade, which you are unfortunately finding out. I think Wink said they'd be increasing inventory, so that may help in the future!

Can you show me a picture of your setting? A side view? I just want to see how it compares to mine. DK might be able to change the head.

@diamondseeker2006 here you go:


tempImage4fKD6l.png


DK quoted me a really good price for a simple Tiffany-style setting, which I have no problem getting. This HPD setting cost me far more than it should.
 

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
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Sorry for the over-analyzation & implications that were apparently received.

I never took it as you were advocating for a vendor switch. I don't support that either. I just found the situation interesting is all.

I will reign it back. :cool2:

Aww @sledge don’t apologize! Your posts are always interesting, well thought out and helpful, always! Please be yourself here.
 

Bonfire

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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I think Layla gave you some great advice. Try on a comparable 2.40ct at Tiffany for size reference. Also an I colored stone in 2.50-2.70ct range to see if you would be happy going down in color in the future.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
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@diamondseeker2006 here you go:


tempImage4fKD6l.png


DK quoted me a really good price for a simple Tiffany-style setting, which I have no problem getting. This HPD setting cost me far more than it should.

My setting is almost identical, and Vatche replaced the head. So I am not buying that they couldn't do it. But as you said, if DK can do one for not much more than replacing a head, then I'd do that. just showing you my ring.( I must have taken this picture to show someone what a ring snuggie is!) I went from 1.6 to 2.3 and it was under $500 to change the head.

IMG_0656.jpg
 

daisygrl

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
757
My setting is almost identical, and Vatche replaced the head. So I am not buying that they couldn't do it. But as you said, if DK can do one for not much more than replacing a head, then I'd do that. just showing you my ring.( I must have taken this picture to show someone what a ring snuggie is!) I went from 1.6 to 2.3 and it was under $500 to change the head.

IMG_0656.jpg

Thank you for letting me know this. I might consider it since I do not know how many times I am going to upgrade my "forever" stone. :) HPD told me a lot of things that could not be done (especially to prongs) that DK said he could do.:think: We shall see. I will go to Tiffany tomorrow to see if I can compare some stone sizes.
 

RunningwithScissors

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Can HPD mail you an example I color diamond for you to look at to see what you think of the color? If it were me, I'd ask Wink directly.

Looking at a Tiffany's diamond might be misleading for a number of reasons. First, Tiffany's cut is going to be different than CBI which may alter color perception. Second, Tiffany's diamonds are graded in-house, so we don't now exactly if their I is the same as an AGS/GIA I. Third, you will be viewing the diamonds in jewelry store lighting which is not the same as the every day lighting conditions in which you'd be wearing the diamond most of your life.
 

daisygrl

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Messages
757
Can HPD mail you an example I color diamond for you to look at to see what you think of the color? If it were me, I'd ask Wink directly.

Looking at a Tiffany's diamond might be misleading for a number of reasons. First, Tiffany's cut is going to be different than CBI which may alter color perception. Second, Tiffany's diamonds are graded in-house, so we don't now exactly if their I is the same as an AGS/GIA I. Third, you will be viewing the diamonds in jewelry store lighting which is not the same as the every day lighting conditions in which you'd be wearing the diamond most of your life.

I thought about them sending me an I color stone but I am more interested in the size difference, which I feel like Tiffany's stone would suffice (quality aside). If I go with an I, the size difference would have to be rather significant. Then, I would be gradually upgrading the color and no longer the size.
 

LilAlex

Brilliant_Rock
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I am thinking of upgrading (size-wise) my CBI 2.13ct. I am trying to avoid going with 2.5ct as I do not necessarily want to pay premium for crossing the 2.5ct mark. I found a 2.41ct stone

...only a 4% (!) increase in diameter, or 8.5% increase in face-up size (assuming the same cut/proportions). Too small a change for me...
 
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