Is the increase in carat size worth the decrease in cut?

[BRS]

I am very close to buying a 1.14ct J Si1 Hearts & Arrows diamond from Brian Gavin, but after visiting the jewelery store with my girlfriend today, she seemed to prefer rings that had slightly larger diamond. I know she would love ANY RING I gave to her, but I want her to absolutely love it!

I can't stretch my budget to reach a bigger H&A cut diamond so I wanted to know if I would I be losing very much in the overall beauty of the stone if I was to get a slightly larger diamond with a slightly lesser cut?

For example:

1.34 J Si1
Depth: 60.4
Table: 58
Crown: 34
Pavilion: 41
HCA score: 1.4
(that's all I have at the moment)

or

1.27 J VS2
Depth: 62
Table: 56
Crown: 35
Pavilion: 41
Star Length: 50
Lower half: 75
Girdle: M-STH Faceted
Polish: Ex
Symmetry: VG
HCA score: 2.3

That's all the info I have on these diamonds at the moment, but these look promising, right? As long as I stay very close to those "ideal" proportions, I should still end up with a great looking diamond, right?

 

[stone-cold11]

What is your budget and 4C specs?

I would look at JA stones with the images and then request for Idealscope image if the loupe and HCA score are promising.

 

[BRS]

My budget is $5000. Color: I-J Clarity: VS2-Si1 Carat: 1.15-1.30ct

BG diamond I am seriously considering:
Carat: 1.158
Color: J
Clarity: SI1
Measurements: 6.74x6.76x4.17
Lab Cut Grade: Ideal
Light Performance: Ideal
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Table %: 55.3
Depth %: 61.7
Crown %: 15.6
Crown Angle: 34.8
Star %: 53.0
Pav Angle: 40.8
Pavillion %: 43.0
Lower Girdle %: 76.0
Girdle Min-Max %: 1.3-3.6
Girdle: Faceted
Culet: Pointed

I know the BG diamond has better numbers than than either of those above, but my questions is HOW MUCH better? Thanks!

 

[DiceKTak]

Those jewelery stores have VERY favorable lighting conditions for large table diamonds. I have a VERY strong feeling she will enjoy the sparkle of a Brian Gavin H&A MUCH MUCH more than that jewelery store diamond once it has been taken out of those favorable lighting conditions.

Get the BGD!!

 

[jan can]

Date: 3/6/2010 7:03:07 PM
Author: DiceKTak
Those jewelery stores have VERY favorable lighting conditions for large table diamonds. I have a VERY strong feeling she will enjoy the sparkle of a Brian Gavin H&A MUCH MUCH more than that jewelery store diamond once it has been taken out of those favorable lighting conditions.

Get the BGD!!

Ditto to the above.

Within the approximate size and budget limits, my first paramater was cut. Imo, the right cut will keep the stone looking better all the time.

Those jewellery store are definitely lit up to make everything look good. Have you ever noticed a big ring in an ordinary setting that doesn''t look so good anymore? I sure have.

I believe that BG has a good return policy. Double check. If you start there and your GF is unhappy, return to the store and start over.

 

[kristie]

There is no way you can go wrong with a BGD......seriously. Don't ever skimp on cut for carat. BGD stones face up gorgeous no matter what size because the brilliance in them is above and beyond anything you will find in the lights of a jewelery store. A BGD that is technically "smaller" in weight LOOKS better because of the cut.

 

[stone-cold11]

Looks promising the 2 you pick, ask for idealscope images and if they are eye-clean? Between a well cut non-H&A stone and a well cut H&A stone, it will be difficult to tell the difference. More importantly is the upgrade policies, IMHO, because if your gf prefer a larger stone, ask her which road she would choose, get stuck with the present, largest stone she can get now or the possibility of upgrading once you get more cash?

 

[DiceKTak]

The well cut stone may face up larger than the larger tabled one. The cut alone will make the stone look bigger. Get the BGD. I once saw a stone in the 59 table range that looked LOVELY in jewelry store lighting. I asked to see it outside and the jeweler balked. Needless to say, the stone did not look so hot when the conditions weren''t as favorable. My Ex/Ex/Ex is a stunner in less friendly environments, as will be the case with that BGD.

 

[BRS]

Thank you all for your suggestions and opinions!

Just to clarify, the diamonds I listed in my first post are from Brian Gavin's website, not a jewelery store. They aren't his signature H&A cuts like the 1.15 I was considering, but I would have Brian inspect the stones and give them the "ok" before I purchased them.

I only mention the jewelery store experience because my girlfriend seemed to prefer the look of the 1.30ct samples compared to the look of the 1.00 samples she tried on. The BG stone I was looking at (1.15ct) is right in the middle, so I got a little nervous.

She likes the very classic solitaire setting, so the diamond will certainly be the focus of the ring.

 

[purrfectpear]

There are a lot of "near" H&A diamonds available from BGD, Whiteflash and GOG. I wouldn''t hesitate to consider one at all, especially if you know that your future FI would prefer the larger diameter. There''s a world of difference between a near H&A with an acceptable HCA score, and the maul store rejects.

 

[stone-cold11]

Check if these stones are still eligible for BGD''s upgrade policy.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/6/2010 8:02:18 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Looks promising the 2 you pick, ask for idealscope images and if they are eye-clean? Between a well cut non-H&A stone and a well cut H&A stone, it will be difficult to tell the difference. More importantly is the upgrade policies, IMHO, because if your gf prefer a larger stone, ask her which road she would choose, get stuck with the present, largest stone she can get now or the possibility of upgrading once you get more cash?

Big ditto to this.

The fact of the matter is that to the untrained eye, it is very difficult to tell the difference between a "perfect" cut and an "almost perfect" cut. We are not talking about an BGD signature versus a maul store reject here

I am as big a cut nut as you will find, but if you are not, or your gf is not, then I am willing to bet that you will both be very happy with the diamond that is "near perfect" and bigger.

As storm has said many times, a diamond''s performance is about 4 features: lighting, lighting, lighting, and cut.

 

[kristie]

I think only BG in house Signature stones are eligible for a 100% upgrade credit if you want to opgrade down the road......the other stones listed are "virtual" and are housed with cutters and are not already "owned" by BGD like his Signature ones are.

 

[Dreamer_D]

As stone cold suggested, your dollar can stretch further with a non H&A diamond. If you really are interested, perhaps broader your search to see what is out there?

But I wonder if you gf would be happier knowing she had a killer diamond and could upgrade with your blessing later

 

[Black Jade]

Everyone on Pricescope, including me is going to say, go with the better cut, but the fact is, that in real life, there are women who care about size more than sparkle. I have several friends like this and I think it isn''t that uncommon. Some of these people care about minute sounding differences. I had a friend recently who bought her daughter not very great .70 ctw earrings rather than great .50''s--she said she could see that the others were better, but that they were just too small.
I''d have an honest conversation with your intended and find out what she prefers right now. I wouldn''t think in terms of "we''ll upgrade later" either. Life can get in the way of these upgrades--kids, mortgages, bad economy. some women sentimentally don''t want to change their diamond. I''d find out what she likes--even though I also hope you can find some options other than the mall (cringe).
I speak as a lover of smaller, more perfect diamonds myself--who is always being shocked at how much many other women care about size in a diamond, and really size alone.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay. Going against the tide here a bit. Sorry, BlackJade... guess I opt out of "everyone' on PS.

You lady is the one who will be wearing the diamond. IF she is an educated consumer and knows that she is fine sacrificing precision cutting for size. Go for it-- have BGD get a great performing non-hearts and arrows diamond in for you. I know of at least 5 PSers. Longtime members who have STUNNING non-hearts and arrows diamonds... Beacon and KristyDarling to name two... who made the sacrifice and happily. Their stones are amazing to look at (seen them in person)... but are they super ideals? No.

The crux is.... is she an educated consumer? And are you willing to get her to the point that she is, if she isn't. BGD has a great upgrade policy on their Signature line. She can upgrade, and she can opt to go with a non-Signature stone when she does (it may not quality for another upgrade is that stone isn't in the signature line) so... ultimately... if she's isn't an educated consumer... just wants a 'big' diamond... the performance of the diamond will maximize the visual size in an H&A. So I agree, that's my first choice too. But to say that *I* would never sacrifice slightly on cut to go up in size isn't accurate. The diamond is an accessory, and everyone has different tastes in accessories and priorities. If your lady wants a large diamond and knows what she is sacrificing in giving up a H&A... then just do what makes her happy.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/6/2010 8:08:09 PM
Author: BRS
Thank you all for your suggestions and opinions!

Just to clarify, the diamonds I listed in my first post are from Brian Gavin''s website, not a jewelery store. They aren''t his signature H&A cuts like the 1.15 I was considering, but I would have Brian inspect the stones and give them the ''ok'' before I purchased them.

I only mention the jewelery store experience because my girlfriend seemed to prefer the look of the 1.30ct samples compared to the look of the 1.00 samples she tried on. The BG stone I was looking at (1.15ct) is right in the middle, so I got a little nervous.

She likes the very classic solitaire setting, so the diamond will certainly be the focus of the ring.

his non signature stones are not in house and are not upgradeable in the future. he would need to call in the stone for ya. IMO...always best to buy from the vendor''s "in house" inventory.

btw; my wife wears a I VS2 1.15ct solitaire. what size ring does your gf wear?

 

[kenleekenlee]

This has to be one of the best comments re: "What should I get my SO, size or cut?" It really depends on the type of person your SO is. You have to understand where her priorities are.

 

[BRS]

Thank you all for you candid opinions.

When its all said and done, we''d be talking about the difference between a 1.15ct and a 1.30ct diamond at the most. Would this difference be noticeable? Honestly, I haven''t seen any 1.15ct stones in person. Most of the diamonds I have seen in person have been either 1.00 or much larger 1.30-1.50.

 

[Dreamer_D]

In point of fact, I also did not urge the OP to go with an H&A, and suggested that a compromise on cut, within reason of course, coule be a great option:

Date: 3/6/2010 8:46:17 PM
Author: dreamer_d
[snip]

The fact of the matter is that to the untrained eye, it is very difficult to tell the difference between a ''perfect'' cut and an ''almost perfect'' cut. We are not talking about an BGD signature versus a maul store reject here

I am as big a cut nut as you will find, but if you are not, or your gf is not, then I am willing to bet that you will both be very happy with the diamond that is ''near perfect'' and bigger.

As storm has said many times, a diamond''s performance is about 4 features: lighting, lighting, lighting, and cut.

PP made the same suggestion, and Gypsy. So I think that there are many on PS who would agree that "top top" cut is not always needed! But I would still urge the OP to not compromise *too* much. There is a point where that compromise will indeed be noticable to most observers, and then I do not think it is a good compromise to make. Diamonds should sparkle!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 3/6/2010 8:24:39 PM
Author: Stone-cold11
Check if these stones are still eligible for BGD''s upgrade policy.

nope!! only his in house signature H&A cuts. the rest are cyber stones.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:14:22 PM
Author: BRS
Thank you all for you candid opinions.

When its all said and done, we'd be talking about the difference between a 1.15ct and a 1.30ct diamond at the most. Would this difference be noticeable? Honestly, I haven't seen any 1.15ct stones in person. Most of the diamonds I have seen in person have been either 1.00 or much larger 1.30-1.50.

It will be a slight but noticable difference. Here is a photo. To see a meaningful difference from 1.15 you will need to get above 1.5ct. In your shoes I would buy an in house diamond with the possibility of a future upgrade so that you and your gf can upgrade to the size she wants at a later date. Nope, not utterly romantic in some eyes. But making her happy is worth its weight in gold

ETAThe difference between one carat and 1.15 is similar to the difference between the 1.15 and the 1.30 below, perhaps more exaggerated.

 

[BRS]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:11:27 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/6/2010 8:08:09 PM

Author: BRS

Thank you all for your suggestions and opinions!


Just to clarify, the diamonds I listed in my first post are from Brian Gavin''s website, not a jewelery store. They aren''t his signature H&A cuts like the 1.15 I was considering, but I would have Brian inspect the stones and give them the ''ok'' before I purchased them.



I only mention the jewelery store experience because my girlfriend seemed to prefer the look of the 1.30ct samples compared to the look of the 1.00 samples she tried on. The BG stone I was looking at (1.15ct) is right in the middle, so I got a little nervous.


She likes the very classic solitaire setting, so the diamond will certainly be the focus of the ring.

his non signature stones are not in house and are not upgradeable in the future. he would need to call in the stone for ya. IMO...always best to buy from the vendor''s ''in house'' inventory.


btw; my wife wears a I VS2 1.15ct solitaire. what size ring does your gf wear?

Actually, I started by asking BGD to bring in a 1.25ct J Si1 that was near ideal from one of their outside vendors. Unfortunately, it was not eye clean so I ended up looking at one of his signature stones that fit within my budget.

My gf doesn''t wear any rings (yet). I hope to fit that problem soon!

 

[Gypsy]

I visited Brian''s store in person last year. He pulled a bunch of stones for me and had me evaluate them unset to guess color and clarity. Side by side and unmounted I could tell the difference between a K and J. Short of that. No dice. If you are already considering a J... a K isn''t that big a leap as long as you like stones in that color range. If your lady likes D and F stones... then it might be wisdom in sticking to the J however. As for carat size. Again, side by side and unmounted, of course I could see the difference in size. But place the diamond on a semi mount and balance it... can I say I have to have the 1.25 over the 1.10? Nope. Setting the diamond makes a big difference in its appearance.


Best thing I can recomend is to go to a Hearts on Fire dealer. They carry J''s and carry super ideals. Have them pull a semi mount and a couple of HOF stones in the carat size and color range you are looking at. And have them do a ''blind'' test of your FI. Don''t tell her what the size, clarity or color is and see what she prefers ''cold.'' It''s the best way, IMO to see what someone is drawn to. Most people have been conditioned to think ''bigger is better'' and most jewelers use that to up sales. They will say... ''this is a one carat and THIS is a 1.30 you can SEE that it is BIGGER" just in the presentation your mind is geared toward viewing the 1.3 as superior. If you want to avoid that, make an appointment, tell that what you expect in terms of service and go from there. And look at the stones in or on a mounting.

 

[jgny]

One other thing to consider is the setting. Some settings will make a stone look bigger. Perhaps a bezel setting? Or something more suble - my current e-ring is a 4 prong solitaire but the setting makes the stone look bigger (see pic) than the same stone in a different setting.

 

[jgny]

Dreamer - where did you get those comparison pics? Do they have for bigger sizes?

 

[Dreamer_D]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:40:56 PM
Author: jgny
Dreamer - where did you get those comparison pics? Do they have for bigger sizes?

Whiteflash was kind enough to take it for me when I was considering my last upgrade!

There are other great comparisons in this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/diamond-size-comparison.83517/

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 3/6/2010 10:19:07 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/6/2010 8:24:39 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

Check if these stones are still eligible for BGD''s upgrade policy.

nope!! only his in house signature H&A cuts. the rest are cyber stones.

If that is the case, I would go to JA''s inventory and see what they have as they will still allow upgrades even those from virtual inventories.

 

[lucyandroger]

Date: 3/7/2010 4:19:57 AM
Author: Stone-cold11

Date: 3/6/2010 10:19:07 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 3/6/2010 8:24:39 PM

Author: Stone-cold11

Check if these stones are still eligible for BGD''s upgrade policy.

nope!! only his in house signature H&A cuts. the rest are cyber stones.

If that is the case, I would go to JA''s inventory and see what they have as they will still allow upgrades even those from virtual inventories.

Ditto Stone-cold11.

We were able to get an ideal cut 1.3 ct. J VS2 from James Allen for right under 5k (with the wire discount). Then we sent it to BGD for the sidestones and setting.