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Is the diamond price premium for certain online retailers worth it?

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garmin

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Joined
Dec 10, 2008
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7
First off, I''d like to thank everyone on PS, as well as the site owners, for the massive amount of knowledge I''ve gleaned from this place as lurker. I was turned onto this site, and the concept of pro-online, and anti-mall stores, from a friend who went through this same process a couple of years ago.

So my basic question is a bit of a subjective one:

Is the price premium commanded by top shelf retailers, such as GOG and WF, worth the extra cost?

I''d like to think that diamonds are a bit of a homogeneous commodity, but maybe that over-simplifies things. I mean, hypothetically I should be able to buy a diamond with the same basic 4 C specs, and same basic HCA results for the same price, correct?

Obviously, that''s really not the case.

I''m heavily leaning towards going through GOG, WF, etc. for peace of mind, and the mass of info they supply for each stone. However, the analytical, frugal side of me screams back in protest when I shuffle through the results I get out of the diamond search function here on the site. Diamonds from firms such as USA Cert, Dimend Scaasi, etc. seem to be DRASTICALLY cheaper.

So basically, what are the pros and cons to purchasing from a respected firm, versus one of these (guessing) wholesalers/brokers, and is the price premium/discount worth it?
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
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42,064
Date: 4/1/2009 1:49:19 PM
Author:garmin
First off, I'd like to thank everyone on PS, as well as the site owners, for the massive amount of knowledge I've gleaned from this place as lurker. I was turned onto this site, and the concept of pro-online, and anti-mall stores, from a friend who went through this same process a couple of years ago.

So my basic question is a bit of a subjective one:

Is the price premium commanded by top shelf retailers, such as GOG and WF, worth the extra cost?

I'd like to think that diamonds are a bit of a homogeneous commodity, but maybe that over-simplifies things. I mean, hypothetically I should be able to buy a diamond with the same basic 4 C specs, and same basic HCA results for the same price, correct?

Obviously, that's really not the case.

I'm heavily leaning towards going through GOG, WF, etc. for peace of mind, and the mass of info they supply for each stone. However, the analytical, frugal side of me screams back in protest when I shuffle through the results I get out of the diamond search function here on the site. Diamonds from firms such as USA Cert, Dimend Scaasi, etc. seem to be DRASTICALLY cheaper.

So basically, what are the pros and cons to purchasing from a respected firm, versus one of these (guessing) wholesalers/brokers, and is the price premium/discount worth it?
Welcome Garmin!

It depends, as you say whether it is worth it or not is subjective. To me yes, I would gladly pay a bit extra for the expertise of a trusted vendor who can evaluate the diamond for me, and provide images such as ASET and Idealscope - even videos to help me choose. I also like having options such as buy back, lifetime upgrade policies, warranties and so on and I don't mind paying for these things to a vendor who provides them. I would rather pay this and have the info I need and these benefits from a vendor who can rightfully charge a bit extra for such benefits, rather than take the chance on a drop shipper.

You can sometimes find a diamond from the virtual listings which could be a great buy if you know what to look for, you can then either take a chance and make sure the vendor has a return policy so you can inspect it yourself, or have a trusted vendor call it in. But there are usually shipping fees for this and sometimes some other costs - but it depends on you and your comfort level ultimately.
 

Allison D.

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2,282
Date: 4/1/2009 1:49:19 PM
Author:garmin
First off, I''d like to thank everyone on PS, as well as the site owners, for the massive amount of knowledge I''ve gleaned from this place as lurker. I was turned onto this site, and the concept of pro-online, and anti-mall stores, from a friend who went through this same process a couple of years ago.

So my basic question is a bit of a subjective one:

Is the price premium commanded by top shelf retailers, such as GOG and WF, worth the extra cost?

I''d like to think that diamonds are a bit of a homogeneous commodity, but maybe that over-simplifies things. I mean, hypothetically I should be able to buy a diamond with the same basic 4 C specs, and same basic HCA results for the same price, correct?

Obviously, that''s really not the case.

I''m heavily leaning towards going through GOG, WF, etc. for peace of mind, and the mass of info they supply for each stone. However, the analytical, frugal side of me screams back in protest when I shuffle through the results I get out of the diamond search function here on the site. Diamonds from firms such as USA Cert, Dimend Scaasi, etc. seem to be DRASTICALLY cheaper.

So basically, what are the pros and cons to purchasing from a respected firm, versus one of these (guessing) wholesalers/brokers, and is the price premium/discount worth it?
The answer to this question (is it worth it) will presumably depend on the individual buyer''s value criteria, but in most cases I''d say yes, it''s worth it.

Diamond aren''t like many other commodity items because they aren''t necessarily "equivalent". When you buy a new Toyota Camry, you can reasonably expect that most new Camrys will perform exactly the same. However, imagine trying to buy a car that just says "four-door, 6-cylinder blue car". You don''t know if it''s a Toyota or a Ford; you don''t know if it''s new or used. You don''t know what options it comes with. There''s no way to do a fair apples to apples comparison to know if you''re paying a fair price without more information. Would you feel confident buying the blue car if you couldn''t see pictures to determine its condition or test drive it? Would you feel confident buying it without having your mechanic thoroughly inspect it for you first?

The market value of a diamond can be similarly influenced by many things that go beyond color, clarity and carat. Is it H&A? How is the stone''s light performance? What lab assigned the color/clarity grades and how stringent or lentient are those labs? Is it branded? What is the cut grade? Is it eyeclean? What kind of inclusions does the diamond have? Do any of them pose structural risks? All of these factors can influence the market value of stone. Having a reputable vendor who can evaluate those things for you does carry value.

Vendor policies also come into play in working with value. Upgrade options, buy-back options, warranties, etc. are all things that add value to your purchase (just like a 36 mo/36K bumper-to-bumper warranty).

Whether or not all these things hold personal value to you depends on your risk tolerance and your comfort level in buying.
 

ajourklaus

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Feb 29, 2008
Messages
39
Hi Garmin,
you said it yourself: "for peace of mind"

GOG and WF offer superb, way above average information on their product. There is a lot of work behind a writeup of their quality. I think it is only fair to get compensation for such excellent clarification.

You know what you are buying period. You know the "whole story" that the stone tells. In the diamond business this is a big step ahead. And you have a huge community that backs these guys up right here.

Good service has a price. As internet bargain hunters we tend to forget that. I think the best way to understand that is to think about our own jobs. When was the last time we worked for free?

Business has to be fair in the end, for both sides.

Just my 5 cents.
 

sarah95

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Messages
182
When my Husband and I purchased my ering, we wanted the absolute lowest price possible which is why we purchased from USA Certed. Martin Sheffield took the time to talk to me and understand exactly what I wanted. I was able to view the stone at a local appraiser, and the process was very smooth and simple. I definitely plan on purchasing from them in the future. I checked out some of the other vendors and while others have success stories with them, they weren''t able to give me the ct weight & quality of stone I wanted for the price I wanted.
 

strmrdr

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yes because it is a low price for the quality level and the level of information.
You will pay a lot more for equivalent stones from the likes of hof.
 

denverappraiser

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The 'value' of your purchase is NOT contained entirely in the 4C's. You mentioned 'peace of mind' as an attribute that's important to you, as well it should be. The best example of this is shopping at Tiffany's. Most people will agree that they sell pretty good stuff there and few would argue that it's an especially cheap place to buy things. Why do people shop there? It's not because they don't know any better, it's because they value some of these other attributes like the long history, the experience of shopping there, the customer support that you can expect if there are any troubles, the confidence of knowing that you are getting exactly what you expect, the pride of owning the genuine thing instead of a knockoff, etc. Whether these things are valuable to YOU depends on your own outlook on things. Some are happy to pay for them and others aren't. Neither side is wrong. A hot dog costs more at the ballpark but that doesn't make it a ripoff nor does it mean that 7-11 is a bargain.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

about2begin

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My thoughts: I found that the branded H&A stones at WF and GOG just weren't worth the premium they commanded. I searched for an eye-clean stone that fell within the GIA ex and AGS ideal ranges according to the HCA. I then called the vendor and asked about the stone in order to determine if it was eye-clean. Then I posted about some finds on here and let these experts have a look. I ordered a stone and paid ~$5000 less than a comparable stone on GOG. I took the stone to a respected appraiser and he said I found a great diamond and was surprised by the price.

In the end, I found that while you certainly get a lot of information about the stones you buy at GOG/WF, it wasn't all information I needed. Once I found a stone with ideal parameters, and an appraiser's blessing, I was happy -- happy b/c I examined the stone in 3000 lighting situations and had 30 days to make a decision.

I used bluenile, searched for a week or so and found a great diamond. James Allen's pricing was on par with BN and I looked there as well.

Yes, I assume you can trust GOG/WF to have picked great stones, but there are certainly great stones out there that you can find on your own -- every stone doesn't pass through their hands (or the hands of Tiffany's, Cartier, etc).

PS -- a trade up policy was not a concern for me (I know she won't be interested), if it is a priority for you, then BN is a bad option.

Hope it helps!

I should ad that Jaime Carson at WF was a pleasure to deal with during my early search. Ditto for Darin at James Allen.
 

oldminer

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It really should be easy to order a car via the Internet. The car is the same car no matter who sells it. People want to buy from a local dealer because of a myriad of reasons such as future service needs and what passes as personal assistance. The truth is that dealers could go away and repair facilities could be made available for warranty and other service work within a reasonable distance. The cost of sales would be lower.

With diamonds, you are generally looking for personality of the seller, added value services provided by the seller, and a feeling of comfort and assurance in your purchase. It is an expensive thing to buy on-line and diamonds are very individual, not like cars. The finest diamonds are much more alike one another than average quality diamonds, so the Internet specializes in the upper 15% or so of quality. If there were good ways to describe average diamonds with consistency, there would be more of them offered on-line, too.

People who find Pricescope have an inside track on getting a great diamond at a very fair cost. For the unusually persistent shopper it could be that once you absorb all the knowledge and possibilities you can go that one last step and find some diamond from an off priced source or with a bit less of a pedigree which meets all your knowledgeable expectations. This cannot happen with an impulsive purchaser. You'd have to be a very good shopper to make that final leap into what most folks consider the unknown. If you can do this, you can save a bit more, but with mark-ups so tight, you can't save a lot without making some compromise on quality. Now, this compromise may be as invisible as the difference between VVS1 and VS1. If you don't care, then I am sure someone can do it. If you care about the tiny details. If you care about the absolute best quality, then you have to go with vendors who stock exactly those special diamonds which do command a premium in price. The truth is, these diamonds cost more. There is more time spent cutting them, grading them, finding them, stocking them, and selling them. Customers for these particular diamonds are a bit more demanding and take a bit more time. All of this leads to the premium being justified.

You have so many choices and compromise is not a bad thing. Some people don't want to compromise on an engagement diamond. Some feel they want to or need to. None of this creates a problem. Once you have the knowledge, you can buy pretty much any diamond and know what is going on.
 

elle_chris

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When I decided to change my e-ring stone, I narrowed it down to color, clarity and size. At that point, since I worked with a few of the vendors here before, I decided to stick with what I know.
No one had what I wanted at the time so I had WF call in a stone that fit my specs (with great numbers as cut was top priority.) While the stone isn't an ACA, a GOG stone or even an H&A, they were able to visually inspect it and let me know if it was a winner or dud. When they gave the stone their thumbs up, i next had them send it to my appraiser.

The stone is gorgeous, and I'm very happy with my purchase. So while in this case, it wasn't worth it for me to change my specs to get a a super duper ideal stone, it was worth it for me to stick with a vendor I trust to get a beautiful diamond. In the end, i got what i wanted and saved on the premium.
 

Dancing Fire

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Date: 4/1/2009 3:50:23 PM
Author: about2begin
My thoughts: I found that the branded H&A stones at WF and GOG just weren''t worth the premium they commanded. I searched for an eye-clean stone that fell within the GIA ex and AGS ideal ranges according to the HCA. I then called the vendor and asked about the stone in order to determine if it was eye-clean. Then I posted about some finds on here and let these experts have a look. I ordered a stone and paid ~$5000 less than a comparable stone on GOG. I took the stone to a respected appraiser and he said I found a great diamond and was surprised by the price.
5K difference ? something don''t sound right
what did you end up buying? specs?
 

arjunajane

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Date: 4/2/2009 1:41:45 AM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 4/1/2009 3:50:23 PM
Author: about2begin
My thoughts: I found that the branded H&A stones at WF and GOG just weren''t worth the premium they commanded. I searched for an eye-clean stone that fell within the GIA ex and AGS ideal ranges according to the HCA. I then called the vendor and asked about the stone in order to determine if it was eye-clean. Then I posted about some finds on here and let these experts have a look. I ordered a stone and paid ~$5000 less than a comparable stone on GOG. I took the stone to a respected appraiser and he said I found a great diamond and was surprised by the price.
5K difference ? something don''t sound right
what did you end up buying? specs?
I agree, I don''t see this how this figure can be correct, and would like to know what two diamonds you are comparing.
GOG does not have that much of a markup over other internet vendors.
 

raz91

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Feb 22, 2009
Messages
37
I''m not sure how the diamond search on PS works, but when I used it, it doesn''t pick up all of inventory of vendors like WF, GOG, etc. In fact, it seemed to pick up mostly the H&A-type diamonds which are more expensive. I would encourage you to use the search, but to also contact the vendors directly. In shopping for a diamond, I used BN quite a bit as a baseline for low cost, as well as data from the Rap report. In the end, though, I bought from a PS vendor and got a price that was very competitive with a BN -- but I also had an Idealscope and magnified image of the diamond that made me feel much more comfortable with the diamond which as you know you can''t get with a BN purchase.
 

about2begin

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Date: 4/2/2009 6:22:58 AM
Author: arjunajane
Date: 4/2/2009 1:41:45 AM

Author: Dancing Fire


Date: 4/1/2009 3:50:23 PM

Author: about2begin

My thoughts: I found that the branded H&A stones at WF and GOG just weren''t worth the premium they commanded. I searched for an eye-clean stone that fell within the GIA ex and AGS ideal ranges according to the HCA. I then called the vendor and asked about the stone in order to determine if it was eye-clean. Then I posted about some finds on here and let these experts have a look. I ordered a stone and paid ~$5000 less than a comparable stone on GOG. I took the stone to a respected appraiser and he said I found a great diamond and was surprised by the price.
5K difference ? something don''t sound right
what did you end up buying? specs?

I agree, I don''t see this how this figure can be correct, and would like to know what two diamonds you are comparing.

GOG does not have that much of a markup over other internet vendors.

I had a few threads on here about my purchase. SI2 (eye clean), H, 2.05 ct, cut falls within gia ex/AGS0 range. I paid ~$14,200 and there''s one on GOG for $19k. Look for yourself.

I''m not saying my stone is superior to theirs, I''m just saying that the $5000 wasn''t worth it to me. Someone else may have an entirely different view of things (which is totally cool). I know GOG offers services that BN does not (inspections, pictures, reports, trade-up) -- those things weren''t what I needed though (at least not for $5000, $800 would maybe have been a different story). Every vendor that I spoke with was professional and great to work with--in the end the price BN offered and the blessing of an appraiser + my eyes was all I needed.

In sum, people are going to value different things differently. Color may be your #1 concern, whereas clarity might be mine. Maybe you want brilliance reports/magnified images etc -- I just wanted the stone to look great and be eye clean. What you''re willing to pay for is a personal decision.

Sorry if you had a hard time believing my story, but I know what I paid, and I know what the GOG website had/has.

PS -- thanks again to everyone who helped out with my stone -- it arrive at LM yesterday and I''m planning the design with him now.
 

Rhino

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Some clarification is in order.

Arjuna ... you are 100% correct. I do not mark up my diamonds by $5000 over Bluenile.
Elle touched on the point I am about to expound upon but I''d like to add further clarification as well.

Vendors like myself that offer branded/signature lines have access to and can sell as cheap as the next guy can if you sincerely want to break it down to apples vs apples including a 2ct H SI2 that is 5k cheaper or even less.

Today a consumer can come onto the Internet, do a search for diamonds in a certain weight, color and clarity range and come up with a plethora of prices on what appears to be the same product. This can even be seen on the very same website, particularly with those who list virtual inventories. I face this same thing as a retailer looking on the wholesale front. For the sake of education, attached below is a spreadsheet from one such resource which lists the inventories of hundreds of facilities around the globe.

As you look at this query, which is for diamonds ranging from 1.55ct - 1.69ct, D color only and VS2 clarity, GIA Ex or AGS Ideal you will note price per carats ranging from as low as $9,033 per carat and as high as $12,221 per carat (roughly a 5k difference in total price!!!) with most falling in between. Just looking at the first two options, both 1.55ct D VS2''s, what causes one to be almost 5 thousand dollars more than the other? Is one supplier trying to rip people off while the other offering the best thing since sliced bread?

As a gemologist with a fully equipped lab I can tell you from experience there can be a plethora of reasons ranging from

a. issues of graining
b. issues of clarity (perhaps liberally graded)
c. may be conservatively graded but perhaps with black inclusions
d. liberally graded color
e. conservatively graded color but perhaps decreases to grey or brown
f. graining combined with fluorescence that could possibly impact the transparency in certain lighting environments
h. issues of clarity that could impact the transparency (we have seen SI1''s with this feature) also in certain lighting environments
i. inclusions breaking the surface and are open which can''t be ascertained via a lab report

And this is before we start taking into account issues of cut.

Does it mean the most expensive diamond in this list is the best? Perhaps not althought it very well could be.
Does it mean the cheapest is the worst? Perhaps not although it very well could be.

Experience as a gemologist in this industry over the past 25 years has taught me there is there is generally always a very good reason why a diamond is priced the way it is and in most instances it is a good gemological reason. Those of us who seek to excel in customer service and actually purchase diamonds for inventory that we will stand behind do so for 2 main reasons. Our own peace of mind and more importantly, our clients peace of mind as we assist them and offer them service an Internet broker can''t begin to approach. Try asking an internet broker why one 1.55ct costs 5k more or less than the other and see the response.

We can not only sell them either but can demonstrate why one costs what it does and if the value is justified or not. Ie. We can acquire and sell the least expensive as Elle chose to do, or the most valuable. In the end it is about peace of mind and I guarantee you there are good reasons why one diamond is priced the way it is. Nobody is giving anything away although all of us, as Internet sellers are working off of the lowest markups.

Hope that helps and if anyone has any questions pertaining to this feel free to ask.
 

elle_chris

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Actually Rhino, I didn't choose the "least expensive." I chose of the more expensive G, VS2 stones in the ct weight I wanted.

The reason for this being was because nether you nor WF had stones that matched the color, clarity, weight combo. I wanted.

In the end, i did pay less than what similiar stones cost through the vendors here. But to be fair, yours and the others are H&A's while mine isn't. So yes, i saived in that sense but still got a beautiful stone.

All I'm saying is, if we're comparing apples to apples (and by that i mean AGS0, or GIA excellents with great numbers and a good idealscope,) I'd rather not always pay extra for the H&A stone as "I" can't see a difference in performance.


edited to add: If you had read the post in it's entirety, i never said anywhere to get a cheap stone. In fact, most of the stones i own are true H&A's. One being from your company. But side by side, i can't tell the difference between my H&A or my GIA excellent e-ring stone. Neither could my independant appraiser when it came to performance.
 

about2begin

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Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:18 PM
Author: elle_chris
Actually Rhino, I didn't choose the 'least expensive.' I chose of the more expensive G, VS2 stones in the ct weight I wanted.


The reason for this being was because nether you nor WF had stones that matched the color, clarity, weight combo. I wanted.


In the end, i did pay less than what similiar stones cost through the vendors here. But to be fair, yours and the others are H&A's while mine isn't. So yes, i saived in that sense but still got a beautiful stone.


All I'm saying is, if we're comparing apples to apples (and by that i mean AGS0, or GIA excellents with great numbers and a good idealscope,) I'd rather not always pay extra for the H&A stone as 'I' can't see a difference in performance.

I also didn't choose the least expensive -- I chose the least expensive stone that fell within my rather long list of requirements. I mean, isn't that what one should usually do?

I'd say that I share your reason for straying away from a "true H&A" -- visually, there was little detectable difference b/w those and normal ideals for me.
 

Diamond Explorer

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I think that was a very good explanation from Rhino. Generally there is very little added premium with "premium" pricescope sellers...

The old adage is true, over the long haul especially... You get what you pay for.
 

Rhino

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Date: 4/2/2009 2:50:18 PM
Author: elle_chris
Actually Rhino, I didn''t choose the ''least expensive.'' I chose of the more expensive G, VS2 stones in the ct weight I wanted.

The reason for this being was because nether you nor WF had stones that matched the color, clarity, weight combo. I wanted.

In the end, i did pay less than what similiar stones cost through the vendors here. But to be fair, yours and the others are H&A''s while mine isn''t. So yes, i saived in that sense but still got a beautiful stone.

All I''m saying is, if we''re comparing apples to apples (and by that i mean AGS0, or GIA excellents with great numbers and a good idealscope,) I''d rather not always pay extra for the H&A stone as ''I'' can''t see a difference in performance.


edited to add: If you had read the post in it''s entirety, i never said anywhere to get a cheap stone. In fact, most of the stones i own are true H&A''s. One being from your company. But side by side, i can''t tell the difference between my H&A or my GIA excellent e-ring stone. Neither could my independant appraiser when it came to performance.
Sorry if I missed that elle. I hear you and also agree that a diamond doesn''t necessarily have to be a true/traditional H&A to be a beautiful diamond. I have a couple here that are perfect examples of this too.

All the best,
 

whitby_2773

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hi garmin :)

i''m with you, in that i''m a regular purchaser from BN. I look for specs within certain parameters and have still found differences within those categories. on occasion, if not happy, i have returned a stone, and on other occasions i''ve been blown away with what i''ve received. one of the most beautiful stones i own is an F SI1 ideal cut .83ct brilliant round. it''s not one of their signature stones - just a regular ideal cut - and actually came to me from Sweden (via BN). one of the worst stones i''ve had from them was an E VVS1 ideal cut round .25 stone which went straight back. i have a .95ct F VS2 signature cut from them which is like looking into a pool of light.

however, having said all of that....

i also have a gorgeous 1.12ct J VS1 stone which i bought from an antique jeweler here in Rye, NY. i want to turn it into a triple, and *that* baby is going straight to GOG to be matched for its side stones. For something as delicate as getting a perfect match with a stone which is not colorless, and which has its very own distinct golden hue, i need experts. i know i''m going to pay a premium for this expertise, but this is simply one of those jobs which requires it, and i''ll pay it gladly.

so i guess i''m saying it''s ''horses for courses''. if you can do without the expertise -and the premium that goes with it - go for it! but that''s not always the case, and at those times, i say run, don''t walk, to your nearest expert to get help.
 

elle_chris

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Date: 4/2/2009 3:09:45 PM
Author: Diamond Explorer
I think that was a very good explanation from Rhino. Generally there is very little added premium with ''premium'' pricescope sellers...

The old adage is true, over the long haul especially... You get what you pay for.

This is supposed to be a diamond education site, not an H&A diamond site. That to me means, learn all you can, regarding how the depth, crown, pavilion angles affect eachother, about the various tools out there that can help in showing light leakage etc, and then, armed with some knowledge, get the best cut you can WITHOUT sacrificing other things that you want your diamond to have (color/clarity/weight.)


That does not always mean having to pay an H&A premium. Recently, I made my first purchase from James Allen. I paid 20 bucks more for their h&a, than another vendor here for the same size stone. But my JA diamond is also two clarity grades higher.


To say that "you get what you pay for" is implying that somehow, the JA stone (AGS0 with an excellent ideal scope image) is worse than what the other vendor offered for their branded H&A. That''s nonesense. I have stones from the other vendor and you can''t tell the JA one apart.


No offense to anyone here but I won''t pay more for a lower color and/or clarity just to get what''s considered a top of the line perfectly cut H&A pattern. And to imply that something that costs less is any less beautiful, well that''s ridiculous.

 

about2begin

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Date: 4/2/2009 3:28:14 PM
Author: elle_chris
Date: 4/2/2009 3:09:45 PM

Author: Diamond Explorer

I think that was a very good explanation from Rhino. Generally there is very little added premium with ''premium'' pricescope sellers...


The old adage is true, over the long haul especially... You get what you pay for.

This is supposed to be a diamond education site, not an H&A diamond site. That to me means, learn all you can, regarding how the depth, crown, pavilion angles affect eachother, about the various tools out there that can help in showing light leakage etc, and then, armed with some knowledge, get the best cut you can WITHOUT sacrificing other things that you want your diamond to have (color/clarity/weight.)



That does not always mean having to pay an H&A premium. Recently, I made my first purchase from James Allen. I paid 20 bucks more for their h&a, than another vendor here for the same size stone. But my JA diamond is also two clarity grades higher.



To say that ''you get what you pay for'' is implying that somehow, the JA stone (AGS0 with an excellent ideal scope image) is worse than what the other vendor offered for their branded H&A. That''s nonesense. I have stones from the other vendor and you can''t tell the JA one apart.



No offense to anyone here but I won''t pay more for a lower color and/or clarity just to get what''s considered a top of the line perfectly cut H&A pattern. And to imply that something that costs less is any less beautiful, well that''s ridiculous.


I agree -- I feel like there are some scare tactics that are employed on here occasionally. It''s pretty sad. If it looks like a good diamond, if an appraiser says it''s a good diamond, if GIA/AGS says it''s a good diamond... You get the point.

We aren''t talking about a low-end TV that will crap out on you in 2 years. If the cert says it''s X, it''ll be X for the rest of time. If it looks X in various lighting environments, it''ll look X for the rest of time.

I understand that vendors make a detailed decision about a stone b/f it enters their inventory. That doesn''t mean anything for the rest of the stones on the market -- were they inspected and rejected, maybe, but probably not. Are the only wonderful diamonds located in-house at a pricescope vendor''s store? If that''s the case, there are only roughly 40 beautiful 2ct stones in the world.
 

Diamond Explorer

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
294
Date: 4/2/2009 3:28:14 PM
Author: elle_chris
Date: 4/2/2009 3:09:45 PM

Author: Diamond Explorer

I think that was a very good explanation from Rhino. Generally there is very little added premium with ''premium'' pricescope sellers...


The old adage is true, over the long haul especially... You get what you pay for.

This is supposed to be a diamond education site, not an H&A diamond site. That to me means, learn all you can, regarding how the depth, crown, pavilion angles affect eachother, about the various tools out there that can help in showing light leakage etc, and then, armed with some knowledge, get the best cut you can WITHOUT sacrificing other things that you want your diamond to have (color/clarity/weight.)



That does not always mean having to pay an H&A premium. Recently, I made my first purchase from James Allen. I paid 20 bucks more for their h&a, than another vendor here for the same size stone. But my JA diamond is also two clarity grades higher.



To say that ''you get what you pay for'' is implying that somehow, the JA stone (AGS0 with an excellent ideal scope image) is worse than what the other vendor offered for their branded H&A. That''s nonesense. I have stones from the other vendor and you can''t tell the JA one apart.



No offense to anyone here but I won''t pay more for a lower color and/or clarity just to get what''s considered a top of the line perfectly cut H&A pattern. And to imply that something that costs less is any less beautiful, well that''s ridiculous.


I do hear you. Always get the most competitive deal you can find. But that has to be judged on a case by case basis.

No one source can provide the best deal on every single diamond. You always have to shop around and see what you can find.

If a source is good than they will be competitive on many deals, but it is impossible to be ultra competitive to all criteria.

 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,278
Date: 4/2/2009 3:39:55 PM
Author: Diamond Explorer

Date: 4/2/2009 3:28:14 PM
Author: elle_chris

Date: 4/2/2009 3:09:45 PM

Author: Diamond Explorer

I think that was a very good explanation from Rhino. Generally there is very little added premium with ''premium'' pricescope sellers...


The old adage is true, over the long haul especially... You get what you pay for.


This is supposed to be a diamond education site, not an H&A diamond site. That to me means, learn all you can, regarding how the depth, crown, pavilion angles affect eachother, about the various tools out there that can help in showing light leakage etc, and then, armed with some knowledge, get the best cut you can WITHOUT sacrificing other things that you want your diamond to have (color/clarity/weight.)




That does not always mean having to pay an H&A premium. Recently, I made my first purchase from James Allen. I paid 20 bucks more for their h&a, than another vendor here for the same size stone. But my JA diamond is also two clarity grades higher.




To say that ''you get what you pay for'' is implying that somehow, the JA stone (AGS0 with an excellent ideal scope image) is worse than what the other vendor offered for their branded H&A. That''s nonesense. I have stones from the other vendor and you can''t tell the JA one apart.




No offense to anyone here but I won''t pay more for a lower color and/or clarity just to get what''s considered a top of the line perfectly cut H&A pattern. And to imply that something that costs less is any less beautiful, well that''s ridiculous.


I do hear you. Always get the most competitive deal you can find. But that has to be judged on a case by case basis.

No one source can provide the best deal on every single diamond. You always have to shop around and see what you can find.

If a source is good than they will be competitive on many deals, but it is impossible to be ultra competitive to all criteria.

Exactly. All of us have access to the same pool of goods except there are diamonds that B&M stores have access to that Internet brokers do not. The difference is walking into that decision with the information/services we provide or not. It''s that simple.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 4/2/2009 3:36:24 PM
Author: about2begin
I agree -- I feel like there are some scare tactics that are employed on here occasionally. It''s pretty sad. If it looks like a good diamond, if an appraiser says it''s a good diamond, if GIA/AGS says it''s a good diamond... You get the point.
You left off freak out and ask storm if it is ok.
Frankly I am rather hurt as you would not have had the confidence to buy the diamond you did without the free help of people here.

Like I said different strokes for different folks.
Compared to a lot of top end diamonds for sale in the world the top h&a diamonds from the top PS vendors are indeed a bargain.
Price out hof at a local store and you will find prices a whole bunch higher for sometimes inferior stones.
 

about2begin

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2008
Messages
121
Date: 4/2/2009 3:49:33 PM
Author: strmrdr
Date: 4/2/2009 3:36:24 PM

Author: about2begin

I agree -- I feel like there are some scare tactics that are employed on here occasionally. It''s pretty sad. If it looks like a good diamond, if an appraiser says it''s a good diamond, if GIA/AGS says it''s a good diamond... You get the point.

You left off freak out and ask storm if it is ok.

Frankly I am rather hurt as you would not have had the confidence to buy the diamond you did without the free help of people here.


Like I said different strokes for different folks.

Compared to a lot of top end diamonds for sale in the world the top h&a diamonds from the top PS vendors are indeed a bargain.

Price out hof at a local store and you will find prices a whole bunch higher for sometimes inferior stones.

HEY -- No way -- I did say thanks to those who helped out (in my first post in this thread)! I mean, you''re 100% correct. Without your help I don''t think I would have been comfortable going the route that I did. I honestly cannot adequately express my appreciation on a message board. The free expert opinions on here are just amazing -- That''s why I have told so many people about this site.

Storm: Thank you so much. I can''t thank you enough.

Lorelei: The same goes for you.

You both reassured me throughout the process and helped me with expert information. I could not have done this without you both!
 

elle_chris

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Messages
3,163
Date: 4/2/2009 3:49:33 PM
Author: strmrdr

Date: 4/2/2009 3:36:24 PM
Author: about2begin
I agree -- I feel like there are some scare tactics that are employed on here occasionally. It''s pretty sad. If it looks like a good diamond, if an appraiser says it''s a good diamond, if GIA/AGS says it''s a good diamond... You get the point.
You left off freak out and ask storm if it is ok.
Frankly I am rather hurt as you would not have had the confidence to buy the diamond you did without the free help of people here.

Like I said different strokes for different folks.
Compared to a lot of top end diamonds for sale in the world the top h&a diamonds from the top PS vendors are indeed a bargain.
Price out hof at a local store and you will find prices a whole bunch higher for sometimes inferior stones.
Strm, you''re right. This is a great site, with wonderful people that are always willing to help.
I also respect the vendors here, and have and will continue to purchase stones from them. My first h&a is a beautiful GOG stone and it''s still my favorite (but more for sentimental reasons.)

But I think we sometimes get so hung up with the ultimate cut, that anything less is crap even if it''s not true.
 

oldminer

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 3, 2000
Messages
6,501
I think that buyers tend to get what they are paying for. The higher priced diamond is worth more and the lower priced diamond is worth less. This is not a 100% rule, but it certainly applies to the vast majority. The fact that a consumer or their appraiser can''t tell the difference is what places an experienced diamond dealer in another league. Like Jonathan said, there are many reasons why what seems to be quite similar diamonds are listed at what appears to be widely disparate prices. The dealers have much more finely graded them and the prices are much more attuned to their value than one might think just comparing the limited data from any pricing list or search function.

Not being able to visually see the differences does not mean no difference exists. Diamonds are traditionally graded and valued well beyond what the eye can appreciate for color, clarity and now for cut. Within these 3 C''s are many small, yet important, sub grades and categories which can serve to alter value way more than one might expect.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Date: 4/2/2009 3:54:29 PM
Author: about2begin

HEY -- No way -- I did say thanks to those who helped out (in my first post in this thread)! I mean, you''re 100% correct. Without your help I don''t think I would have been comfortable going the route that I did. I honestly cannot adequately express my appreciation on a message board. The free expert opinions on here are just amazing -- That''s why I have told so many people about this site.


Storm: Thank you so much. I can''t thank you enough.


Lorelei: The same goes for you.


You both reassured me throughout the process and helped me with expert information. I could not have done this without you both!
I see that now, I must have missed it.
Your welcome.

The thing it its not scare tactics it is being sure enough about a stone to recommended it.
That takes information, in your case that Dave looked at it was the confirming information.
It is a little different path than most and a valid one but the other paths are just as valid.

There are a lot of different reasons for different pricing and particularly right now there may not be a gemological reason for a large price swing but rather an economic one.
Consider yourself lucky to have been able to take advantage of the times.
A year ago there for sure would have been a large gemological reason for the price difference.
 
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