Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP not

[kpazzo6]

Is it true that Princess Cut Diamonds are graded from TOP not sides? I ask because I found a beautiful diamond which is eye clean from top but if I look closely from side of diamond I can see an inclusion. I told this to the jeweler and his response was "diamonds are graded from the TOP view and not from the side view. So any inclusions seen thru the side of the diamond are not even considered in diamond grading, and only inclusions visible from the top are."


Is this true?

 

[yssie]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

Is it true that Princess Cut Diamonds are graded from TOP not sides? I ask because I found a beautiful diamond which is eye clean from top but if I look closely from side of diamond I can see an inclusion. I told this to the jeweler and his response was "diamonds are graded from the TOP view and not from the side view. So any inclusions seen thru the side of the diamond are not even considered in diamond grading, and only inclusions visible from the top are."


Is this true?

yes, clarity grading is from the top view only (and only through a 10x loupe)
More here [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-grading-question.154174/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/clarity-grading-question.154174/[/URL]

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

I think the link yssie posted is great- but it does leave questions.. primarily about location of imperfection affecting the grade- which is directly related to this thread.

With regard to clarity grading- it is definitely done from all sides.
Take the case of a stone who's imperfection is visible only through the pavilion ( bottom).
IF grading was done solely through the top, we'd never have eye clean I1 diamonds.

kpazzo6- the statement you've attributed to your jeweler is incorrect.
A grader must examine the stone from all sides to issue a correct clarity grade.
However, if a stone is "eye clean from the top, many people would declare the stone "eye clean"- regardless of the side /bottom views.
Regular PS readers are more educated, thus likely to be concerned about side and bottom views- but the trade as a whole does not generally consider anything but "face up" in determining if a stone is eye clean.
Which is a different statement than one that says diamonds are only examined from the face to determine clarity

 

[yssie]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

I think the link yssie posted is great- but it does leave questions.. primarily about location of imperfection affecting the grade- which is directly related to this thread.

With regard to clarity grading- it is definitely done from all sides.
Take the case of a stone who's imperfection is visible only through the pavilion ( bottom).
IF grading was done solely through the top, we'd never have eye clean I1 diamonds.

kpazzo6- the statement you've attributed to your jeweler is incorrect.
A grader must examine the stone from all sides to issue a correct clarity grade.
However, if a stone is "eye clean from the top, many people would declare the stone "eye clean"- regardless of the side /bottom views.
Regular PS readers are more educated, thus likely to be concerned about side and bottom views- but the trade as a whole does not generally consider anything but "face up" in determining if a stone is eye clean.
Which is a different statement than one that says diamonds are only examined from the face to determine clarity

My understanding from my conversation w/ GIA was that they'll plot all features on the stone, but the actual assigning of a clarity grade is strictly from face-up through a 10x loupe...?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

My understanding from my conversation w/ GIA was that they'll plot all features on the stone, but the actual assigning of a clarity grade is strictly from face-up through a 10x loupe...?

Not correct, my extremely knowledgable friend!
The proof is in stones that have imperfections not visible from the top.
Put another way, look at enough SI graded GIA diamonds, and there are those you'll need to really search to find something.
In many cases it's due to a location hidden from the top view.....

 

[yssie]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

My understanding from my conversation w/ GIA was that they'll plot all features on the stone, but the actual assigning of a clarity grade is strictly from face-up through a 10x loupe...?

Not correct, my extremely knowledgable friend!
The proof is in stones that have imperfections not visible from the top.
Put another way, look at enough SI graded GIA diamonds, and there are those you'll need to really search to find something.
In many cases it's due to a location hidden from the top view.....

Huh... now I'm confusing myself.

I remember the gemologist explicitly stating that the visibility from other angles isn't considered in clarity grading - but I didn't press further because I that had been my understanding anyway, so maybe I heard what I expected to hear. So if they do consider inclusions in all parts of the stone, they obviously have to look at the stone from all angles to find those inclusions! Is that where I'm tripping - *visibility* vs. *knowledge of* other inclusions that may affect the final clarity grade - so a surface-breaking feather on the bottom that's not (or barely) visible face-up might still result in an SI2, not because it's visible from the side or bottom but because it exists...

ETA: Okay, wait, exists - I see sunlight! Clarity grading is a statute of existence, not visibility - we settled that in the other thread, so if that's the case it's all *knowledge of* and has nothing to do with *visibility* whatsoever. Yes?

ETA: Nope. Back in the tunnel. One of the five things they consider is "relief" - so if visibility doesn't matter, neither should relief. So visibility does matter. Unless maybe it's the sort of inclusion where visibility doesn't matter - or is relief the one factor that's only determined from top-down..?

Why do I get the feeling the answer is going to be "it depends"?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

Calling GIA is.....how can I put this delicately....IT SUCKS!!!

Seriously- I can't tell you how many times one person has told us one thing ( which we knew to be untrue) only to have the correct info presented by a supervisor, or subsequent employee.
Of course I'm a strong vocal supporter of GIA- as such, it's vital to be clear in discussing the current state of how GIA is operating.
They are horrendously overworked, is what I attribute it to.
The result is that obtaining correct info on specifics like this is not all that easy.

Bottom line- I can really only speak to results. IOW, I've got a HUGE frame of reference in looking at so many stones- and I love SI's ( for the price)
I've seen VS2's that had visible imperfections due to "relief"- and I1's that were totally eye clean due to the imperfection being totally hidden.
In some cases, a feather can act like a piece of paper.
Put it up in front of your face, and it blocks the sun.
Turn it sideways, and it disappears....and it's virtually invisible unless you've got it oriented perfectly.
Of course there cases where the imperfection is oriented where looking through the table produces the "block the sun" effect as well.
So, yes, in my experience, it does depend..

 

[yssie]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

Thanks RD. I'm learning a lot hopefully OP comes back to see his questions answered!

 

[Rockdiamond]

Re: Is it true that PrincessCut Diamonds are graded from TOP

Thanks Yssie,
In fact, my example of a piece of paper seems perfect to illustrate the point.
If the diamond has the feather oriented so that the feather is easy to see, will it get the same grade as the same size stone, same size feather, oriented so it's invisible from the front?
My experience is yes, it will.

Also- how big is a VVS1 sized imperfection in a .25ct stone?
How big is a VVS1 sized imperfection in a 2.50ct stone- or a 25.00ct stone?
If we look at what constitutes the VVS1 grade ( the smallest possible imperfection visible 10x) they should be identical in size.

Thought provoking stuff!