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Is it safe to buy an Uncertified Diamond if it has been appraised?

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AllieLuv83

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A jeweler tried to sell me an Uncertified Diamond.
He had an appraisal but no certification. Is it a bad idea to buy one of those? Also is there a way to get them certified? Why would someone sell and Uncertified diamond in the first place? The store has both certified and uncertified stones. Why would this be the case? Please shed some light on this issue.
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
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what do you mean by ''certified''?
it doesn''t matter whether a stone is ''certified'' or has an appraisal, both just need to have accurate and relevant information.
 

Finding_Neverland

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Jan 10, 2007
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Could be it''s an older diamond out of a ring or other piece of jewelry from before Certs became popular. Maybe the stone was just removed and the Vendor hasn''t had a chance to submit it for grading yet.

If it''s a newer stone, more recently cut, chances are it wasn''t Certed for a reason. Diamond Brokers know their business. Possibly if it was Certed, it would grade poorly on paper therefore bringing a lower price than a Vendor could get selling to an unwary, uinformed buyer. May also be the case if it was removed from a piece of jewelry as well. Won''t grade well and can be sold for more as is.
 

oldminer

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The diamond is the same, but the promise of exact grading is missing. Since the VALUE is determined by a known shape, weight, color, clarity, and cut you are literally taking a blind shot in the dark by agreeing to just "Take someone''s word for it." Besides, the seller is certainly seen to have some bias in their recommendation.

For many decades the seller was just trusted to be honest. Some people had wonderful reltionships with trusted retailers in every field, not just jewelry. In recent years, doubt has entered the consumer market. Now, third party grading is considered a safer way to proceed, but you always can be impulsive or a risk taker. Its a personal choice.

There are still some jewelers whose word and knowledge is "take it to the bank" safe. Bur, how do you know unless you have a long standing, close and knowledgeable relationship. Otherwise, playing it safer is a better way.
 

kcoursolle

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For me, it really depends *who* did the appraising. If it was an independent appraiser chosen by me and the stone and mounting were evaluated I would consider it in special instances such as antique pieces, lower priced items, etc.

However, if it was appraised by a gemologist chosen by the jeweler this waves a lot of red flags for me and at the very least he better have a good return policy so that I can get it appraised by an independent appraiser before deciding to keep it.
 

RockDoc

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Here''s a suggestion

Tell the seller to send the diamond to AGS ( takes 5 days they are faster than GIA) and make sure the grading complies with the appraisal when you get the result.

Offer to pay the seller''s cost of the report, if the stone grades as it is represented by the "appraisal" or the seller himself. If the grading isn''t the same then you shouldn''t pay for the grading report.

If it doesn''t, it isn''t a sale. If it does it is.

If the seller won''t agree to this very reasonable method of verification, then put your running sneakers in use.

It is fair for the seller to ask you for a deposit, but I wouldn''t suggest paying in full till the stone comes back from the lab.


This way your money isn''t at risk till you have verification of the clarity color weight and cut grade, and you are sure that it is represented accurately, and even more important, is the diamond you really want.

Rockdoc
 

AllieLuv83

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The diamond is priced low. It is not the best clarity but it is eye clean and the appraisal was done by the GAL i dont know what it stands for. Some of the diamonds are certified by GIA and AGL and the others he sells are not. I just dont know if I can trust it but sending it out would be a good idea, the only thing is that I will be in NYC only for a few days thats where the diamonds are so I dont know what to do.
 

niceice

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Note that the term "certified" is a bit misleading, none of the gemological laboratories actually "certify" what the quality of the diamond is... They merely state their opinion of the characteristics of the diamond at the time that it was graded and practically all of the disclaimers found on the back of the lab reports contain a statement indicating more or less that the buyer should consult the services of a gemologist prior to purchasing the diamond. This is good advice, regardless of whether the diamond you are considering has been lab graded or is being sold based upon the "educated" opinion of the seller (some are more educated and/or experienced than others) it is prudent to have the diamond evaluated by an independent Graduate Gemologist. You''re going to be in NYC for a few days, this should be easy enough. There is a list of appraisers to be found via the Resources link at the top of this page and you can probably arrange a meeting with one of the ones in NYC to evaluate the diamond while you are there - make the purchase of the diamond conditional on the evaluation by the Gemologist. Most of all, have fun in NYC
 

AllieLuv83

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Thank you for all of your help. I know that you can get quite a bargain by buying uncertified diamonds and I will be excited to go and look because NYC seems to be the mecca for diamonds. :) Will post back to let you know the results of my travel.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
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Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
stones that are borderline J/K or SI2/I1 are sometimes sold uncertified as they are considered "worth more without the paper" i.e. they''re not as bad as they would be certified. A jeweler can take advantage with a custoemr in this or he can be honest and give it at a fair price for it''s colo/clarity. Some jewlers may "lie" about the color or clarity but give it at a fair price for what it''s worth.

I don''t think any jeweler would take you up on an offer to first send it in for a grading and purchase depending on the grading concurring with his assessment. He might agree however to sending the stone in for certification and should the price offered be fair market value for the reslultant grading of stone go along with it.
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 1/25/2007 2:51:27 PM
Author: AllieLuv83
I know that you can get quite a bargain by buying uncertified diamonds ....

This is not usually the case. The stones with no documentation are usually that way for a reason. If the dealer could command a higher price by submitting it to a particular lab, there’s a pretty good chance that they will do just that. Choosing the right lab, or choosing no lab at all is an important strategic issue for the dealers and this decision is not necessarily being made in your best interest. The only real savings is the cost of the lab fees, which are usually a small percentage of the cost of the stone. Far more of the ‘bargain’ has to do with inaccurate grading and information that would be on the report that they would just as soon you not know.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

belle

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Date: 1/25/2007 5:01:26 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 1/25/2007 2:51:27 PM
Author: AllieLuv83
I know that you can get quite a bargain by buying uncertified diamonds ....

This is not usually the case. The stones with no documentation are usually that way for a reason. If the dealer could command a higher price by submitting it to a particular lab, there’s a pretty good chance that they will do just that. Choosing the right lab, or choosing no lab at all is an important strategic issue for the dealers and this decision is not necessarily being made in your best interest. The only real savings is the cost of the lab fees, which are usually a small percentage of the cost of the stone. Far more of the ‘bargain’ has to do with inaccurate grading and information that would be on the report that they would just as soon you not know.



Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
great reply, as usual neil.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
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Date: 1/25/2007 5:01:26 PM
Author: denverappraiser

Date: 1/25/2007 2:51:27 PM
Author: AllieLuv83
I know that you can get quite a bargain by buying uncertified diamonds ....

This is not usually the case. The stones with no documentation are usually that way for a reason. If the dealer could command a higher price by submitting it to a particular lab, there’s a pretty good chance that they will do just that. Choosing the right lab, or choosing no lab at all is an important strategic issue for the dealers and this decision is not necessarily being made in your best interest. The only real savings is the cost of the lab fees, which are usually a small percentage of the cost of the stone. Far more of the ‘bargain’ has to do with inaccurate grading and information that would be on the report that they would just as soon you not know.



Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
i agree with you Neil in regard to larger size stones of say .80 ct+. However, on smaller stones it''s not always the case. A dealer could choose not to hassle with the process of certification. The stone may simply have been from a parcel of a larger wholesaler who didn''t certify it and the jeweler just then got the stone from the parcel when he had the call.I agree though you''re certainly right that one has to be weary if something isn''t certified for fear of being taken advantage of but i just think someone selling a stone uncertified does not necessarily mean he''s trying something underhanded.
 

denverappraiser

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Date: 1/25/2007 5:01:26 PM
Author: denverappraiser


This is not usually the case.
It's often even a problem if the stone is 'certified'.

Even with smaller stones, there will not be a terrific savings but I agree that it's not a huge red flag the way it is on, say, stones over 2 carats. A dealer calling a stone an SI-1 and then pricing it like an I-1 because it's 'uncerted' isn't telling the whole story, even with a half carater. The 'bargain' is an illusion albeit it a very attractive one.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
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