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Is Family Estrangement Becoming More Common?

Jambalaya

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I read a great saying in an old book the other day. It was "to throw the baby out with the bathwater," to mean that sometimes people throw away a lot of good along with the bad, which accurately describes what I'm trying to say. How many of these estrangements are pretty reasonable, and how many involve throwing away more good than bad? It's the latter in my family, so I'm probably suffering from confirmation bias.

But I also don't see what the RF could possibly have done that was terrible enough for Meghan and Harry to go so nuclear. There was the press - not RF's fault. There was William cautioning Harry to go slow with his new girlfriend, which seems quite sensible. There was that dreadful Princess Michael wearing a racist brooch to meet Meghan. Princess Michael is very much on the periphery of the RF and they pretty much have to put up with her as she married in. Her father was a well-known Nazi. But PM is like the embarrassing relative that's kept out of sight most of the time. I wouldn't have through SHE was a reason to hit the nuclear button. She's a very minor royal.

Then there's the allegation of the racist comment about Archie's skin, which is intriguing. That's the only thing that could be behind their taking the nuclear option, and we can't judge how reasonable that reaction was because we don't know who said it. If it was a minor royal, like PM, giving it all up because of her would seem silly. If it was Charles, it would be more understandable. Also, was it really racist or was it more like, "I wonder if the baby will have Harry's ginger coloring or will be darker like Meghan?" in a curious sort of way, not in a "our bloodline is going to be tainnnnnnted!" sort of way. You have to remember that people will always seek to blame their bad behavior on someone else.

But since we have NO idea what was said or who said it, we can't judge. Harry and Meghan's reaction to their royal life just seems a bit OTT, especially considering that she doesn't speak to any of her own family either, except her mother.
 
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OreoRosies86

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I’m dealing with this now, under the guidance of a therapist. I think many people don’t like hearing words like “boundaries” and “no contact.” In my case I laid my boundaries out clearly. I needed to untangle years of behavior within an unhealthy family dynamic that was damaging and not being addressed. I was doing so while working with someone who specializes in family relationships, and made it very clear this isn’t a permanent cutoff but that I did need space.

Their response was to non stop text, email, call, and have others contact me as well. Lots of guilt tripping, and even a fake illness that they won’t admit to, in an effort to get the attention I’m not giving them. Then they sent me a late night rant about how no contact and boundaries are a “millennial trend.”

What I realized is, when you let people know their past treatment of you wasn’t acceptable and won’t be tolerated now, they tend to fall into two camps.

Camp one listens, respects the boundaries, and accepts the invitation to explore how to be better together.

Camp two gets defensive, uses manipulative tactics, and LOVES to tell you you’re overreacting or remembering things wrong.
 

Jambalaya

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@seaurchin This is all so true! At least with estrangements becoming more common, perhaps it will inspire people to realize that you cannot just treat people like they're old boots just because they're family. I've always thought that it's wrong for people to treat family members badly just because they feel they can.

It's also really true about the two camps. I found the same thing. I fell out with one family member and she made it right; and I fell out with another (not an estrangement, but I asked her to stop some highly annoying behavior), and she simply refused to listen. There was nothing I could have said to make her respect my boundaries. I was actually going to initiate a discussion with her and tell her that if she didn't listen, I would simply see her less, but then she got cancer and died, and that was that.
 

Jambalaya

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Piper70

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Yes and no. And not all for the better or worse!
I suspect it happened more often than we realize in past. People seem to have not talked about it then. It also would have been easier before digital everything to just put pictures away and not talk about a person. No seeing them through friends or other family who are still social media friends with them. No screenshots sent through text message. Just move and lose touch.

That said, we also live in a time when it is easy to make connections with people who share your interests and keep in touch with them. Why spend a miserable vacation or holiday or whatever with family members you don't have anything in common with other than blood when you can visit with people who share interests and want to go do the same things you do? I feel closer to a few people I met through the internet than I do many in my family. I have tried and tried, but it is difficult when there isn't much common shared.

Oh! My grandmother moved here from South Dakota when she was 19 (17?) and I have only spent time with that side of my family three times in my life. My brother has only met a few of them and then only once in his life. Families moving and just naturally drifting as the future generations don't really connect with people out of their area is probably very common both years ago and now. (My aunt is engaged to her cousin! They didn't even know they were cousins until a few dates in and they only live like 20 miles apart!)
I am not estranged from any relatives but I would not be friends with some, parents and siblings, if we weren’t related. I was parented with benign neglect ( common in the 70’s ) and now they want to be close without having put in the effort. It was a revelation when I had my kids on how awesome family relationships can be. I’m not cutting anyone off but I have a parent whose FB usage/stalking might send me over the edge. And, even though this is probably not what the OP was referring to, one of my BFF’s is someone I met through an internet travel forum because we both had vacation homes in the USVI. Life is short. Spend your time and effort on those who bring you joy, related or not.
 

Mrsz1ppy

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I’m dealing with this now, under the guidance of a therapist. I think many people don’t like hearing words like “boundaries” and “no contact.” In my case I laid my boundaries out clearly. I needed to untangle years of behavior within an unhealthy family dynamic that was damaging and not being addressed. I was doing so while working with someone who specializes in family relationships, and made it very clear this isn’t a permanent cutoff but that I did need space.

Their response was to non stop text, email, call, and have others contact me as well. Lots of guilt tripping, and even a fake illness that they won’t admit to, in an effort to get the attention I’m not giving them. Then they sent me a late night rant about how no contact and boundaries are a “millennial trend.”

What I realized is, when you let people know their past treatment of you wasn’t acceptable and won’t be tolerated now, they tend to fall into two camps.

Camp one listens, respects the boundaries, and accepts the invitation to explore how to be better together.

Camp two gets defensive, uses manipulative tactics, and LOVES to tell you you’re overreacting or remembering things wrong.

I wish I knew what I did that wasn't acceptable! I wasn't given a chance. Just not invited to my son's wedding, and have never been given a reason. I have not pushed myself on them, sent in flying monkeys or crashed the wedding, but it has made no difference. It really hurt, and still does. My son and I were really close because he had a lot of medical issues from age 2 to 19.

I don't bring it up in conversation because ruminating does not help me stay happy and positive. I sincerely hope it is not becoming more common, but I think it is popular to diagnose people with psychiatric illnesses based on Reddit or other internet research, and ask strangers for advice. Everyone loves having their opinion seconded, and it is easy to find a group on the internet who will do just that!

Life is long, and people evolve. I hope my son just needs some independence, because his medical needs kept him from developing it at the usual ages, and eventually we will reconnect.

Am sending love and hugs to anyopne else who has had to go through this terrible experience.
 

Piper70

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I wish I knew what I did that wasn't acceptable! I wasn't given a chance. Just not invited to my son's wedding, and have never been given a reason. I have not pushed myself on them, sent in flying monkeys or crashed the wedding, but it has made no difference. It really hurt, and still does. My son and I were really close because he had a lot of medical issues from age 2 to 19.

I don't bring it up in conversation because ruminating does not help me stay happy and positive. I sincerely hope it is not becoming more common, but I think it is popular to diagnose people with psychiatric illnesses based on Reddit or other internet research, and ask strangers for advice. Everyone loves having their opinion seconded, and it is easy to find a group on the internet who will do just that!

Life is long, and people evolve. I hope my son just needs some independence, because his medical needs kept him from developing it at the usual ages, and eventually we will reconnect.

Am sending love and hugs to anyopne else who has had to go through this terrible experience.

I have no words of wisdom except to say that I am sorry this happened to you!
 

Jambalaya

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It was a revelation when I had my kids on how awesome family relationships can be.

That is so nice and so heartwarming to hear!
 

Jambalaya

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I wish I knew what I did that wasn't acceptable! I wasn't given a chance. Just not invited to my son's wedding, and have never been given a reason. I have not pushed myself on them, sent in flying monkeys or crashed the wedding, but it has made no difference. It really hurt, and still does. My son and I were really close because he had a lot of medical issues from age 2 to 19.

I don't bring it up in conversation because ruminating does not help me stay happy and positive. I sincerely hope it is not becoming more common, but I think it is popular to diagnose people with psychiatric illnesses based on Reddit or other internet research, and ask strangers for advice. Everyone loves having their opinion seconded, and it is easy to find a group on the internet who will do just that!

Life is long, and people evolve. I hope my son just needs some independence, because his medical needs kept him from developing it at the usual ages, and eventually we will reconnect.

Am sending love and hugs to anyopne else who has had to go through this terrible experience.

I'm also really sorry that this has happened to you.

In researching this topic, to try to understand family members better, I came across the webpage linked below that you might find helpful. At the bottom, there's another link called Five Ways to Move On. And the book on the right of the page, Done With The Crying, looks interesting. Hope you find these resources helpful.

https://www.rejectedparents.net/how-to-cope-when-your-adult-child-cuts-you-out-of-their-life/
 

OreoRosies86

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I wish I knew what I did that wasn't acceptable! I wasn't given a chance. Just not invited to my son's wedding, and have never been given a reason. I have not pushed myself on them, sent in flying monkeys or crashed the wedding, but it has made no difference. It really hurt, and still does. My son and I were really close because he had a lot of medical issues from age 2 to 19.

I don't bring it up in conversation because ruminating does not help me stay happy and positive. I sincerely hope it is not becoming more common, but I think it is popular to diagnose people with psychiatric illnesses based on Reddit or other internet research, and ask strangers for advice. Everyone loves having their opinion seconded, and it is easy to find a group on the internet who will do just that!

Life is long, and people evolve. I hope my son just needs some independence, because his medical needs kept him from developing it at the usual ages, and eventually we will reconnect.

Am sending love and hugs to anyopne else who has had to go through this terrible experience.

I’m not a fan of armchair diagnosing anyone. All I can really speak to is behavior that was distressing from a family member. I do think it is unfair to put boundaries in place without offering an explanation (unless it’s self explanatory). I don’t know why someone would cut their mother out of their life with no warning unless there was a great deal of hurt they were experiencing. There are two sides to every story and I hope your son will find it within himself to tell you his someday.
 

seaurchin

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The only thing I've found that makes a difference in levels of family estrangement is economic. Where people are poor and have little freedom, they have to take what they get, for survival. Where there's more wealth and freedom, people are more likely to leave if it becomes less painful than staying.

I don't know anyone who walked away from family lightly. More likely after a lifetime of misery. And a family is a system, typically not a healthy one for the person who leaves, so they often lose the other family members, too.

I would say you shouldn't feel you need to tolerate mistreatment from other relatives that you wouldn't tolerate in a spouse. It all goes both ways.
 
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Daisys and Diamonds

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Not in Prince Harry's case (although they did loose their mum young) but i think when the elder senior couple in a family get old or pass on some of the glue that holds the family together comes unstuck, also the dynamics or even hirachy of a family change over time as the older generation fade away
when my dear MIL passed on my SIL (a nice person} now just takes over all Christmass and family gatherings, birthdays etc and i dont get a look in anymore becaue she has become mother hen

also face book
people update face book instead of picking up the phone or writting a letter or email to an indervidual so someone who should find out information like a wedding or illness first (because say they are a parent, grandparent or sibbling) finds out the same time as the masses

my BIL is a strange one (Gary's bro)
he just cant be bothered with me
i was told i was no longer welcome in their home
we had a very upsetting incident on holiday years ago where i was told my pedigre, a huge and hurtful list of character floors (that goodness he doesnt know how i spell),
but they have also fallen out with so many other people i refuse to worry about it any more
 

kenny

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If a family is bad enough, you should leave it.

I would not call it estrangement.
I call leaving my family in the past, "Family Escape", or "Family Liberation".

Staying in a bad family, or marriage, is what I'd call strange.

28.png
 
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Daisys and Diamonds

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am i allowed to add something about Prince Harry
and trying very hard not to be judgementle becasue i do have the upmost respect for the Queen
And absoltluly no direspect towards Princess Diana
but as a good and loving mother (and perhaps also Charles the father) Wills and Harry were brought up as equalls within their nucular family,
when to the rest of us including his wider family he is never going to be equal in importance to his brother and especially not now Wills and Kate have the three kiddies
you only have to look at the Queen's cousins and even her other children and the place they were in, in the line of succesion when they were born to where they now sit in line today
i think perhaps Meghan just didnt understand this either
Monarchy is not Hollywood or reality tv as much as the tabloid press treat it as such
a quick wiki search long before the wedding would have told her that her future children wouldn't be HRH's till Harry's father is king

there is obveously a problem with giving purpose to the person born as the spair, but being spair is not in itself a perminant position
The Queen's late sister was induluged by their father but she at least had the good sence to be loyal to her sister right throughout her life
Princess Ann was once the spair and she has certainly filled her life with much purpose

the spair is an important role, George V and George VI were both spairs and were very good kings
one must hope that Kate can wrangle this issue more successfully with her little ones as they grow up in the fish bowl


please excuse all my typos - my phone died and my laptop hates me
 

seaurchin

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my BIL is a strange one (Gary's bro)
he just cant be bothered with me
i was told i was no longer welcome in their home
we had a very upsetting incident on holiday years ago where i was told my pedigre, a huge and hurtful list of character floors (that goodness he doesnt know how i spell),
but they have also fallen out with so many other people i refuse to worry about it any more

I have a hard time imagining anyone not liking you tbh, Daisys and Diamonds. BIL sounds like a total *&^%$#)@(#)!!!
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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I have a hard time imagining anyone not liking you tbh, Daisys and Diamonds. BIL sounds like a total *&^%$#)@(#)!!!

thank you Seaurchin
thats very kind of you to say
they just dont appreate people who dodnt fit the mould of their so called normality
 

Bron357

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Personally I think it’s a combination of more stress in peoples lives, people losing contact and context with family (due to moving away / other life commitments) and people having much more “self” ness and a general lack of tolerance.
People just seem to “lose it” more quickly and more aggressively these days, not just with family, even with strangers. Scenes at shopping centres, at takeaway outlets, road rage.. too many people are angry and not forgiving.
sad.
 

Ionysis

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Long post warning!

My mother has been estranged from multiple family members since I was a child - resulting in me having very few people I can call family. She is an incredibly unforgiving woman and has also cut off lifelong friends when they have overstepped her definition of what is acceptable. She also gives you the silent treatment without telling you what has upset her, and is unbelievably sensitive so things upset her which most people wouldn’t even notice.

The first time I was on the full receiving end of this was personally when my husband and I had separated and he returned to the family home. My mother had been incredibly supportive to me and had lived with me and the kids during lockdown. She eventually went home and my husband and I were attempting to reconcile. The week he returned I messaged her every day. At the end of the week I called her and she told me she didn’t want to speak to me, that I was unbelievably selfish and ungrateful and thoughtless because I hadn’t called her to give her a blow by blow update every day of the state of my marriage. The fact that I was somewhat occupied emotionally and logistically with attempting to re-settle my children and put my marriage back together was clearly not on her radar. It was all about her.

I then received a long email saying how I’d always disrespected her, that I clearly didn’t care about her or value her, that she and my dad never approved of my husband because of his “pedigree” and that, as I had effectively chosen him over her, she didn’t want me to call or speak to her ever again but that we could exchange emails once a month going forward.

Usually this kind of strop would precipitate me calling, apologising, trying to make her feel better and generally playing along with her games. As I’d done since childhood. But at that point something snapped. I had to focus on my own kids and my marriage. So I just ignored the entire thing. I did exactly as she asked. I wrote a long email every week - bright, breezy, giving updates on the grandchildren, catching her up on news but, as she requested, I didn’t speak to her from that point on. Precisely as SHE ASKED.

She replied to the emails in a nice way but also went round telling anyone who would listen that I had cut her off, cast her aside, how could I treat her this way. She told my children that they would never see her again because she and I had “broken up”. She wrote me a malicious letter telling me she had changed her will to cut me out of it because she wouldn’t have my husband getting his hands on “her” money. She said she was selling the family home because I had stopped financially supporting her (I hadn’t - I was still sending her a minimum of $800 dollars every month as I’d done since the day my father died).

I didn’t reply to a single provocation. I never wrote her a letter / email/ message of any kind which acknowledged her horrible behaviour. I ignored all her antics, continued to email every week with a chatty, friendly update, and got on with my life. Eventually after 6 months of this we met up at my uncles house and I acted completely normally, as if none of her crap had ever happened, gave her a big hug, said how lovely it was to see her, we all caught up and then I left. From that point on she started to want to speak to us and see us again.

What I did to deserve this? I still don’t fully get it. But I will never ever feel the same about her again. I knew she was like this with others but for her to turn on her only child in that way at the point in my life where I most needed her love and support was, to me, something that I will never forget.

Don’t get me wrong, I speak to her at least twice a week, I message every day, I have her to stay for visits, I go to see her, I’m kind and cordial with her, I support her financially, I give every impression of being a loving dutiful daughter.

But I will never again feel any affection or closeness like I did when I was a child. And I’ve been through therapy to appreciate how her character and behaviour have affected me growing up - which I wasn’t even fully aware of until this happened. I don’t trust her and I find being around her massively stressful. When she stays with us for holidays I breathe a sigh of relief when she is gone and I can stop tiptoeing on eggshells. I cringe when I have to give her a hug or kiss goodbye which I feel so guilty about as I know she is lonely and starved of affection - probably why she behaves as she does - but that’s the result of how she has treated me.

I just try and learn from this so I don’t find myself in the same situation with my children when they are grown up.

My husband’s side is easier - he cut off all contact with his mother as she allowed all her children to be very severely abused by their stepfather. None of her kids are in contact with her. Much cleaner and less stressful.

So overall I can totally see why estrangement happens and certainly it’s way easier to cut out a toxic person than to continue to try to maintain a relationship with suitable boundaries.
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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Long post warning!

My mother has been estranged from multiple family members since I was a child - resulting in me having very few people I can call family. She is an incredibly unforgiving woman and has also cut off lifelong friends when they have overstepped her definition of what is acceptable. She also gives you the silent treatment without telling you what has upset her, and is unbelievably sensitive so things upset her which most people wouldn’t even notice.

The first time I was on the full receiving end of this was personally when my husband and I had separated and he returned to the family home. My mother had been incredibly supportive to me and had lived with me and the kids during lockdown. She eventually went home and my husband and I were attempting to reconcile. The week he returned I messaged her every day. At the end of the week I called her and she told me she didn’t want to speak to me, that I was unbelievably selfish and ungrateful and thoughtless because I hadn’t called her to give her a blow by blow update every day of the state of my marriage. The fact that I was somewhat occupied emotionally and logistically with attempting to re-settle my children and put my marriage back together was clearly not on her radar. It was all about her.

I then received a long email saying how I’d always disrespected her, that I clearly didn’t care about her or value her, that she and my dad never approved of my husband because of his “pedigree” and that, as I had effectively chosen him over her, she didn’t want me to call or speak to her ever again but that we could exchange emails once a month going forward.

Usually this kind of strop would precipitate me calling, apologising, trying to make her feel better and generally playing along with her games. As I’d done since childhood. But at that point something snapped. I had to focus on my own kids and my marriage. So I just ignored the entire thing. I did exactly as she asked. I wrote a long email every week - bright, breezy, giving updates on the grandchildren, catching her up on news but, as she requested, I didn’t speak to her from that point on. Precisely as SHE ASKED.

She replied to the emails in a nice way but also went round telling anyone who would listen that I had cut her off, cast her aside, how could I treat her this way. She told my children that they would never see her again because she and I had “broken up”. She wrote me a malicious letter telling me she had changed her will to cut me out of it because she wouldn’t have my husband getting his hands on “her” money. She said she was selling the family home because I had stopped financially supporting her (I hadn’t - I was still sending her a minimum of $800 dollars every month as I’d done since the day my father died).

I didn’t reply to a single provocation. I never wrote her a letter / email/ message of any kind which acknowledged her horrible behaviour. I ignored all her antics, continued to email every week with a chatty, friendly update, and got on with my life. Eventually after 6 months of this we met up at my uncles house and I acted completely normally, as if none of her crap had ever happened, gave her a big hug, said how lovely it was to see her, we all caught up and then I left. From that point on she started to want to speak to us and see us again.

What I did to deserve this? I still don’t fully get it. But I will never ever feel the same about her again. I knew she was like this with others but for her to turn on her only child in that way at the point in my life where I most needed her love and support was, to me, something that I will never forget.

Don’t get me wrong, I speak to her at least twice a week, I message every day, I have her to stay for visits, I go to see her, I’m kind and cordial with her, I support her financially, I give every impression of being a loving dutiful daughter.

But I will never again feel any affection or closeness like I did when I was a child. And I’ve been through therapy to appreciate how her character and behaviour have affected me growing up - which I wasn’t even fully aware of until this happened. I don’t trust her and I find being around her massively stressful. When she stays with us for holidays I breathe a sigh of relief when she is gone and I can stop tiptoeing on eggshells. I cringe when I have to give her a hug or kiss goodbye which I feel so guilty about as I know she is lonely and starved of affection - probably why she behaves as she does - but that’s the result of how she has treated me.

I just try and learn from this so I don’t find myself in the same situation with my children when they are grown up.

My husband’s side is easier - he cut off all contact with his mother as she allowed all her children to be very severely abused by their stepfather. None of her kids are in contact with her. Much cleaner and less stressful.

So overall I can totally see why estrangement happens and certainly it’s way easier to cut out a toxic person than to continue to try to maintain a relationship with suitable boundaries.

regarding contact with your mum
you have the patience of a saint
 

stracci2000

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8,505
This has happened in my family.
My aunt had an a silly argument with my grandmother. And in retaliation, my aunt refused to speak to her or my grandfather (who had nothing to do with the argument) for 8 years.
My grandmother tried and tried to reconcile with my aunt, to no avail. Finally grandfather died, and here comes my aunt, walking into the funeral home. Of course, grandmother welcomed her with open arms, and all was forgiven.
But what goes around comes around.
Now my aunt's two children do not speak to HER. This has been going on for over 10 years.
My two cousins have cut her off for various reasons and she hasn't seen her grandchildren at all, who have since grown up.
Obviously, my cousins saw her treat grandma this way, and are repeating the pattern. Learned behavior, in my opinion.
 
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Ionysis

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Not in Prince Harry's case (although they did loose their mum young) but i think when the elder senior couple in a family get old or pass on some of the glue that holds the family together comes unstuck, also the dynamics or even hirachy of a family change over time as the older generation fade away
when my dear MIL passed on my SIL (a nice person} now just takes over all Christmass and family gatherings, birthdays etc and i dont get a look in anymore becaue she has become mother hen

also face book
people update face book instead of picking up the phone or writting a letter or email to an indervidual so someone who should find out information like a wedding or illness first (because say they are a parent, grandparent or sibbling) finds out the same time as the masses

my BIL is a strange one (Gary's bro)
he just cant be bothered with me
i was told i was no longer welcome in their home
we had a very upsetting incident on holiday years ago where i was told my pedigre, a huge and hurtful list of character floors (that goodness he doesnt know how i spell),
but they have also fallen out with so many other people i refuse to worry about it any more

It does surprise me when someone can’t tell that THEY are actually the commons denominator in these breakdowns and fall outs. I mean how likely is it that everyone else is the problem and not ever them? Total lack of self awareness. Definitely sounds like it’s your BIL who is the issue here and certainly NOT you.
 

Ionysis

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Oct 1, 2015
Messages
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I’m dealing with this now, under the guidance of a therapist. I think many people don’t like hearing words like “boundaries” and “no contact.” In my case I laid my boundaries out clearly. I needed to untangle years of behavior within an unhealthy family dynamic that was damaging and not being addressed. I was doing so while working with someone who specializes in family relationships, and made it very clear this isn’t a permanent cutoff but that I did need space.

Their response was to non stop text, email, call, and have others contact me as well. Lots of guilt tripping, and even a fake illness that they won’t admit to, in an effort to get the attention I’m not giving them. Then they sent me a late night rant about how no contact and boundaries are a “millennial trend.”

What I realized is, when you let people know their past treatment of you wasn’t acceptable and won’t be tolerated now, they tend to fall into two camps.

Camp one listens, respects the boundaries, and accepts the invitation to explore how to be better together.

Camp two gets defensive, uses manipulative tactics, and LOVES to tell you you’re overreacting or remembering things wrong.

I found my therapist - life coach actually - incredibly helpful in allowing me to explore my complex feelings about my mother and in managing my relationship with her. I hope you also find it useful. I couldn’t recommend it enough.
 

Ionysis

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I’m not a fan of armchair diagnosing anyone. All I can really speak to is behavior that was distressing from a family member. I do think it is unfair to put boundaries in place without offering an explanation (unless it’s self explanatory). I don’t know why someone would cut their mother out of their life with no warning unless there was a great deal of hurt they were experiencing. There are two sides to every story and I hope your son will find it within himself to tell you his someday.

It’s interesting. Almost all of the relatives I know who have been “cut out” for very clear reasons still profess ignorance of why and protest there can be no rational or justified reason behind it.

My husband’s mother still sends him text messages occasionally saying she just wishes she knew what she did wrong and why he has cut her off. Er, how about enabling the severe physical beating, emotional torture and sexual abuse of your three kids by a man you brought into their lives?! Ring any bells?! How about showing no interest in meeting your grandchildren for five years because you had a new boyfriend?

But in her mind she just “can’t work out what she did wrong”.
 

bludiva

Ideal_Rock
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But in her mind she just “can’t work out what she did wrong”.

In my experience people who do or enable sh*tty things have bought into all kinds of reasons and stories as to why it's okay. They don't believe they did anything wrong, or they had no other choice in how to behave, even if it's obvious from the outside that their reasoning is BS. They have to cling to it because facing up to what they did is too much for them.
 

Ariadne_Theia

Shiny_Rock
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343
It’s interesting. Almost all of the relatives I know who have been “cut out” for very clear reasons still profess ignorance of why and protest there can be no rational or justified reason behind it.

My husband’s mother still sends him text messages occasionally saying she just wishes she knew what she did wrong and why he has cut her off. Er, how about enabling the severe physical beating, emotional torture and sexual abuse of your three kids by a man you brought into their lives?! Ring any bells?! How about showing no interest in meeting your grandchildren for five years because you had a new boyfriend?

But in her mind she just “can’t work out what she did wrong”.

This reminds me of an article I once read analyzing the different between a forum for estranged parents and one for estranged children.


I honestly found it fascinating.
 

wildcat03

Brilliant_Rock
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My husband and I are estranged from his parents. Frankly, they have been difficult since forever. Inevitably, over the course of our relationship there would be some drama every 6 months ago. We are not dramatic people (I mean, I can be loud and dramatic when overcome with emotion, but I don't crave or gravitate towards drama in my personal life). It culminated over discussing visiting our family and our newborn son in August 2021. We asked that people shield for a week or so prior to visiting, in light of the Delta surge and two vulnerable household members. They declined. My GMIL was already very isolated and by default had met these measures, so we let her come over to meet our son. We thought it might be a very limited window for her, as she is in poor health. My MIL was very angry about this, and screamed at my husband about it over FaceTime (with my daughter in the room). She hung up on us and has not called back since. We haven't reached out because we feel like there is not much to say at this point. I think some of the strain in our relationship comes from the fact that we are confident and sure-footed in our parenting and our marriage and we don't seek their approval for our decisions. They were raised in a different time, and in my FILs case in a different culture where those things are not the norm.
 

winnietucker

Ideal_Rock
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My husband and I are estranged from his parents. Frankly, they have been difficult since forever. Inevitably, over the course of our relationship there would be some drama every 6 months ago. We are not dramatic people (I mean, I can be loud and dramatic when overcome with emotion, but I don't crave or gravitate towards drama in my personal life). It culminated over discussing visiting our family and our newborn son in August 2021. We asked that people shield for a week or so prior to visiting, in light of the Delta surge and two vulnerable household members. They declined. My GMIL was already very isolated and by default had met these measures, so we let her come over to meet our son. We thought it might be a very limited window for her, as she is in poor health. My MIL was very angry about this, and screamed at my husband about it over FaceTime (with my daughter in the room). She hung up on us and has not called back since. We haven't reached out because we feel like there is not much to say at this point. I think some of the strain in our relationship comes from the fact that we are confident and sure-footed in our parenting and our marriage and we don't seek their approval for our decisions. They were raised in a different time, and in my FILs case in a different culture where those things are not the norm.

Ugh people who put newborns at risk make me mad. I was on a few mom forums for a bit there and the amount of people who noted having issues related to family members coming over sick/ after being exposed to covid was infuriating. The entitlement is unreal.

I’m sorry you had to deal with that. I can’t wrap my head around people who think visiting a newborn is more important than making sure that baby is safe and stays healthy.
 

Ionysis

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
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1,951
This reminds me of an article I once read analyzing the different between a forum for estranged parents and one for estranged children.


I honestly found it fascinating.

Super interesting article. Emotion creates the “reality”. This is so true. My mother honestly has fictional conversations in her head, or ruminates on her fears, and thereafter acts as if THE CONVERSATION ACTUALLY HAPPENED. It’s scary and impossible to deal with.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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4,784
In my experience people who do or enable sh*tty things have bought into all kinds of reasons and stories as to why it's okay. They don't believe they did anything wrong, or they had no other choice in how to behave, even if it's obvious from the outside that their reasoning is BS. They have to cling to it because facing up to what they did is too much for them.

Ohhhh, ain't this the truth? As a child I witnessed domestic violence and later on horrible emotional abuse resulting in a strained relationship, only for the first perpetrator to deny it ever happened (I LITERALLY saw it!) and for the second to deny that there is any strained relationship even though she refuses to have the family members for Christmas when they would normally go.

I SAW the violent person hold a bed pillow over the woman's face and try to smother her. I SAW him chase her up the stairs while she screamed. But to this day he thinks it's OK. I know this because my cousin has a violent husband and this other perpetrator thinks it's fine.

I don't want to talk about what I just said above. Just know that NEVER WERE THERE TRUER WORDS SAID about the total, complete, and utter denial of what these ****ing evil people are really like. Pardon my language.
 

Jambalaya

Ideal_Rock
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@Ionysis, I'm really, really sorry that you've had the experiences that you had with your mother. That must be really tough.

Do you think she might be bipolar? I don't want to armchair-diagnose, but she sounds super-unstable. Maybe not bi-polar, but some kind of mental-health issue? I know that's NO excuse for treating you the way she did, but maybe if she did have some issues, it would help you make sense of her behavior, which might contribute to your peace of mind?

I've had the misfortune to know some really horrible people in my life, and what stands out for me is not just that they're horrible, but that they make NO sense, and that's what tips me off to the fact that mental illness is behind a lot of it. (Again, NO excuse - it's not as if they have no control and are going up to strangers and being horrible to them. I notice they have enough capacity to choose a victim, usually someone weaker.)

When I say makes no sense, here's an example: I had a friend whom I had known since preschool. We were very close for forty years. After my mother died, she never spoke to me again. I know she had some issues around death, probably caused by a baby brother of hers who died. But there's the thing: She will have no family after her parents go. She doesn't have kids and didn't want them, and she doesn't know her cousins or aunts and uncles. She and I were like sisters and we know each other's lifestories. We are the only people alive who remember each other's grandparents, all of whom were born 1902-1910. I wondered if I had been inadvertently annoying her for years, but a couple of years before my mother passed, she told me that in all the decades she'd known me, I had never said anything insulting or off-color to her.

So.....why dump your lifelong sister-friend when you have no family, because you have a major issue with death??? That makes NO sense! NO SENSE! The only possible reason is some pretty bad mental health issues, and in fact I know that mental health issues are a big problem on her paternal side. Two of them died by suicide and many others are on strong drugs like Lithium.

So much of people's bad behavior is caused by mental-health challenges that are often more widespread and more severe than we know, in my humble opinion.
 
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