Is Family Estrangement Becoming More Common?

[Jambalaya]

Hello!

I feel as if family estrangements are becoming more common. There are four within my extended family (not involving me, thank goodness - I'm a spectator) and I have watched the twists and turns of Harry and Meghan's saga. I'm privy to a lot of info. about the four estrangements in my family, and two of those are with immediate family members. I was a close-up witness to decades of those relationships, and I can say with some confidence that although the rejected family members were somewhat overbearing at times, they also did so very much for the rejecting family members, and their "crimes" in no way justify the wholesale, years-long rejections.

I'm not talking about situations where a family member was narcissistic or emotionally and/or physically abusive. Estrangements are sometimes necessary to protect yourself. I'm talking about family members who were a bit bumbling and possibly on the mild end of the spectrum, but who did many, many loving things throughout the years.

So I don't understand the lack of balance in their perspectives. It's very painful to watch these family members being hurt. About Harry, I know we can't know the intricacies of his relationship with William, but William seems really nice and it's hard to imagine that he deserves Harry's treatment of him. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

I do wonder if the general negativity spread by the internet is affecting family relationships. And I wonder if someone is prone to challenges with their mental health, all the negativity around makes it much worse and they lash out at family. The reason I say this is because in my family, there seems to be zero balance in perspective at all, which to me indicates some degree of challenge in terms of mental health. My parents could be pretty annoying at times, and my childhood included some incidents I'd rather not post here - believe me, it was FAR from a bed of roses - but I am able to hold in my mind simultaneously the many, many good things they did for me, too. This results in a balanced perspective.

So in summary, do you think it's becoming more common for people to estrange from family with less reason than ever before? I do, and I blame the internet. Twitter in particular is the most toxic medium I've ever seen.

 

[winnietucker]

My opinion on the Royal family based on my limited knowledge of how they work is that Harry is just very protective of his wife given how the Royal family and media treated his mother. I don’t blame him. Being a part of that family sounds awful IMO. I also think they kept the Meghan/ Harry drama in the spotlight to redirect attention from Prince Andrew. Let’s be real, Prince Andrew’s crimes are way worse but Meghan seems to have more articles written about her.

As for Meghan’s issues with her father’s side of the family… I mean, they seem like God awful people. Her sister is a nut case who comes off as someone who only wants attention/ money. Same with the father. IMO it seems like they realized Meghan is now ultra wealthy and in really elite circles and they want in.

As for general family issues - I think so. I think people moving away from family definitely affects that. Maintaining relationships takes a lot of effort and that’s harder to do when you’re far away. I also think cultures are changing.

My husband is considering cutting off contact with his parents. He’s the oldest and the only one who doesn’t currently live at home. He feels like they always just ask him for stuff and don’t really show an interest in us, our baby, and that they don’t really do anything for us. It’s been like this for a bit but having the baby has really changed his mind on it.

Previously he’d tell me it’s a cultural issue that I don’t understand and that it’s his job as the oldest and the oldest son to help care for the family. But I think the fact that they haven’t made plans to visit the baby and don’t really FaceTime him or ask how he’s doing has soured the relationship for my husband. I know that they do love my husband (I don’t think his mom likes me too much personally) and I’m sure they love our son. They’ve done kind things for us in the past but the relationship is a bit one sided.

As for me, I fight off and on with my dad. He tends to prioritize himself/ my step mom when he was with her and I tend to prioritize my family. That has led to huge blowout fights in the past and it has led to resentment, which sometimes means we don’t talk to months - years.

 

[Kya]

This is a complicated topic that is very individualized. But definitely it has become more common.

I see two ends -

For one thing, there seems to be higher incidences of illness and disorder that can take a huge toll on relationships. It is devastating how many sufferings there are that unfortunately necessitate estrangement.

But also, cancel culture has a hand in this. Working things through and accepting sincere apology accompanied by positive change is not currently trending…

As far as the royal family or anyone public for that matter, one can never know what is going on behind closed doors; we can sympathize for all regardless

 

[Jambalaya]

@winnietucker But what has Prince William done that's so wrong and so awful that it negates everything he and Harry have previously been to each other?

It was explained to Meghan over and over that the RF can't respond to every insult about them in the press because it's like playing a game of Whac-a-Mole, and also because the more you respond, the more they do it. It's usually best to say nothing, as Kate and her family did for years and years while they were called lower-class, trolley-dolly, Waity-Katie, and when the Daily Mail ran an entire article criticising Kate's feet when she had to take her shoes off to visit a mosque! There were arrows pointing to her corns and calluses and everything!! Meghan absolutely refused to listen.

Harry and Meghan are a good example of a lack of balance, actually. The RF liked Meghan, they did a lot to make her feel welcome, Prince Charles very kindly and proudly walked her up the aisle, we were told that she makes the Queen laugh, they were given titles, a gorgeous house with millions spent on renovations, endlessly expensive designer clothes and jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, and a really beautiful wedding, with songs and sermons and a preacher of Meghan's choice. And they would have had a huge slice of Kensington Palace to themselves if they hadn't decided that they couldn't bear to live next to Kate and William, who seem super-nice to me! The RF absolutely showered goodies on them. How come there seems to be no balance in their perspective?

About your family's attitude toward your baby, maybe they are waiting for an invitation? You often read about how new moms are overwhelmed and don't want visitors...maybe they don't want to push in?

 

[Jambalaya]

For one thing, there seems to be higher incidences of illness and disorder that can take a huge toll on relationships. It is devastating how many sufferings there are that unfortunately necessitate estrangement.

But also, cancel culture has a hand in this. Working things through and accepting sincere apology accompanied by positive change is not currently trending…

Both of these statements are so true. And I do blame social media for much of the first. There is just so much negativity, which I believe leads to more negative thoughts. And it seems that the negativity seems to be so overwhelming that people are unable to hold the positives of the given family relationships in their minds at the same time.

To reiterate, I'm not talking about family who is narcissistic and emotionally, verbally, or physically abusive. Estrangements are sometimes necessary for mental and physical health.

It's true that you don't know what goes on behind closed doors, but in terms of William and Harry, William and Kate seem so nice! What could they possibly have done that Harry and Meghan couldn't stand to live in separate parts of the same humongous complex? It's not like there wasn't plenty of room - each of those wings of Kensington Palace has about FIFTY rooms, and separate entrances. You'd never see each other, and it was a much better arrangement in terms of security headaches. Were William and Kate really so objectionable that Harry and Meghan were justified in turning down life in a grand palace to live in a much lesser property (but still large and lovely) thirty miles away?

ETA: I know some family estrangements are richly deserved. Physical or sexual abuse that was swept under the rug is something that comes to mind. But from my observances, it seems that more estrangements for much, much lesser offenses are taking place, and I think it's incredibly sad. I hope my family members don't live to regret it. For the ones that I have seen very close-up, I don't think the rejectees deserve it, and they have endured/are enduring a lot of pain. I just don't understand how some people can mete out such treatment to people who have done so much for them and who absolutely do not have stains on their relationship like any kind of abuses. The worst they have done is be a bit annoying at times.

 

[TooPatient]

Yes and no. And not all for the better or worse!
I suspect it happened more often than we realize in past. People seem to have not talked about it then. It also would have been easier before digital everything to just put pictures away and not talk about a person. No seeing them through friends or other family who are still social media friends with them. No screenshots sent through text message. Just move and lose touch.

That said, we also live in a time when it is easy to make connections with people who share your interests and keep in touch with them. Why spend a miserable vacation or holiday or whatever with family members you don't have anything in common with other than blood when you can visit with people who share interests and want to go do the same things you do? I feel closer to a few people I met through the internet than I do many in my family. I have tried and tried, but it is difficult when there isn't much common shared.

Oh! My grandmother moved here from South Dakota when she was 19 (17?) and I have only spent time with that side of my family three times in my life. My brother has only met a few of them and then only once in his life. Families moving and just naturally drifting as the future generations don't really connect with people out of their area is probably very common both years ago and now. (My aunt is engaged to her cousin! They didn't even know they were cousins until a few dates in and they only live like 20 miles apart!)

 

[Austina]

The Hallmark movie image of the perfect family is the ideal world scenario, but after all the stresses of the last couple of years, it’s getting less and less achievable. Throw in someone in the family taking advantage of another, or parents favouring one child over another, and you reach a point where you just have to walk away for the sake of your own mental health and not be shackled by the guilt that they’re ‘family’.

 

[winnietucker]

@winnietucker But what has Prince William done wrong?

It was explained to Meghan over and over that the RF can't respond to every insult about them in the press because it's like playing a game of Whac-a-Mole, and also because the more you respond, the more they do it. It's usually best to say nothing, as Kate and her family did for years and years while they were called lower-class, trolley-dolly, Waity-Katie, and when the Daily Mail ran an entire article criticising Kate's feet when she had to take her shoes off to visit a mosque! There were arrows pointing to her corns and calluses and everything!! Meghan absolutely refused to listen.

Harry and Meghan are a good example of a lack of balance, actually. The RF liked Meghan, they did a lot to make her feel welcome, Prince Charles very kindly and proudly walked her up the aisle, we were told that she makes the Queen laugh, they were given titles, a gorgeous house with millions spent on renovations, endlessly expensive designer clothes and jewelry worth hundreds of thousands, and a really beautiful wedding. And they would have had a huge slice of Kensington Palace to themselves if they hadn't decided that they couldn't bear to live next to Kate and William, who seem super-nice to me! The RF absolutely showered goodies on them. How come there seems to be no balance in their perspective?

About your family's attitude toward your baby, maybe they are waiting for an invitation? You often read about how new moms are overwhelmed and don't want visitors...maybe they don't want to push in?

I didn’t say William did anything wrong. I’m saying Harry is protective of his family and for good reason. My take on it is that Harry is prioritizing the happiness of his family and William is prioritizing the throne. Also, aren’t there allegations that Charles is the one who questioned how dark Archie’s skin would be? If it’s true, he’s not the good guy just because he walked Meghan down the aisle. My #1 conspiracy theory is that the Royal family is letting Meghan and Harry get dragged through the mud to distract from Prince Andrew. Also - the media shouldn’t have attacked Kate Middleton either.

As for my family…. My husband asked his mom if she could come visit and she said she couldn’t. That’s fine, we live in another state so it’s not exactly easy. But he’s also tried to FaceTime them before but they don’t seem to interested in that. He has stopped trying that and they don’t seem to care. It’s always my husbands sending pics and updates on the baby. Sometimes his parents respond to the pics sent, sometimes not. They did send a few text messages asking my husband to buy them lotto tickets though. They didn’t send any money for it. And they didn’t send money the last time they asked my husband to buy tickets. The last lotto ticket incident was the straw that broke the camels back.

 

[Jambalaya]

@winnietucker I hadn't heard that about Charles. Not that I keep up, but I had thought Harry and Meghan's lips were sealed as to who it was.

ETA: Harry has a book coming out, so maybe all will be revealed.

 

[winnietucker]

@winnietucker I hadn't heard that about Charles. Not that I keep up, but I had thought Harry and Meghan's lips were sealed as to who it was.

ETA: Harry has a book coming out, so maybe all will be revealed.

It’s all speculation of course but I could see them not wanting to out him as Harry’s father and next in line to the throne.

 

[Jambalaya]

es and no. And not all for the better or worse!
I suspect it happened more often than we realize in past. People seem to have not talked about it then. It also would have been easier before digital everything to just put pictures away and not talk about a person. No seeing them through friends or other family who are still social media friends with them. No screenshots sent through text message. Just move and lose touch.

That said, we also live in a time when it is easy to make connections with people who share your interests and keep in touch with them. Why spend a miserable vacation or holiday or whatever with family members you don't have anything in common with other than blood when you can visit with people who share interests and want to go do the same things you do? I feel closer to a few people I met through the internet than I do many in my family. I have tried and tried, but it is difficult when there isn't much common shared.

@TooPatient Yeah, the bolded is really true.

I think you make a good point about things being difficult when you don't have much in common with family members. I have two extended family members with whom I've really tried, but I just have NOTHING in common with them. For example, one turned into the kind of mom who got pettily competitive with other moms about not having pain relief, and I really can't stand that sort of thing. But I still send them Christmas cards and would be willing to catch up over a coffee during the once a year that we're both in our hometown, for old times' sake, and to check that they're OK. I still care about them and want them to be OK, even if they've evolved into people who are pretty different from me.

I dunno, I guess I just feel that life is short and that all these estrangements are a pity, unless someone has been truly awful and there are few redeeming factors.

 

[Jambalaya]

It’s all speculation of course but I could see them not wanting to out him as Harry’s father and next in line to the throne.

Hmm, yes. Good point.

 

[Jambalaya]

The Hallmark movie image of the perfect family is the ideal world scenario, but after all the stresses of the last couple of years, it’s getting less and less achievable. Throw in someone in the family taking advantage of another, or parents favouring one child over another, and you reach a point where you just have to walk away for the sake of your own mental health and not be shackled by the guilt that they’re ‘family’.

Right. And while I know that some family estrangements are RICHLY deserved, I also feel that it's happening more now, for less reason than ever before, and I do think that general stress and negativity is having a terrible impact on interpersonal relationships. I bet it's happening in friendships, too. Obviously the last 2.5 years of the pandemic has been really hard, and then you've got toxic social media, and the mainstream media has become ever more sensationalized because they are competing for eyeballs with said social media.

In terms of how we handle our social relationships, both family and friends, I think we are in a bad place as a society. And as for how we treat strangers....I feel like I'm reading more stories of people just flipping out and murdering others.

One thing I see a lot is people being very quick to ascribe the worst possible motives to people's actions, and I think this is a sign of stress. (i.e. the stress of the pandemic/social media/ the MSM.) For example, someone might be insulted by their friend not getting back to them in a timely manner while not considering that they may be depressed. I've even seen people still take it extremely personally and not listen when informed that a person is, in fact, suffering from depression!

 

[Lookinagain]

I think the closeness of families, or lack thereof, can also be cultural/ethnic. I will only speak for my own. Both sides are of European ancestry. One side can be more secretive and hold fairly long grudges. The other side is more wide open about personal things and don't seem to hold grudges at all. I see the same characteristics in friends and their families who come from both, or one or the other backgrounds. So I don't think it's just family traits but something more in the culture in which they were raised. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but it's something I think I've witnessed on more than one occasion and therefore concluded there might be something to it.

 

[Snowdrop13]

@winnietucker I hadn't heard that about Charles. Not that I keep up, but I had thought Harry and Meghan's lips were sealed as to who it was.

ETA: Harry has a book coming out, so maybe all will be revealed.

I think it was Camilla…..

 

[Jambalaya]

I think the closeness of families, or lack thereof, can also be cultural/ethnic. I will only speak for my own. Both sides are of European ancestry. One side can be more secretive and hold fairly long grudges. The other side is more wide open about personal things and don't seem to hold grudges at all. I see the same characteristics in friends and their families who come from both, or one or the other backgrounds. So I don't think it's just family traits but something more in the culture in which they were raised. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but it's something I think I've witnessed on more than one occasion and therefore concluded there might be something to it.

How interesting, @Lookinagain!

Are you saying that although both sides are European, they are from different countries with different cultures? I'd love to know the two, and which type is which, if you feel comfortable answering. I always imagined that Eastern European cultures would be somewhat colder than, say, people from the Southern Mediterranean areas like Spain. I don't know why.

 

[Jambalaya]

I think it was Camilla…..

Really?? How interesting! What makes you say that?

 

[Jambalaya]

Just found this on the BBC. It seems that estrangements are indeed on the rise, which fits with my anecdotal observations.

Family estrangement: Why adults are cutting off their parents

Polarised politics and a growing awareness of how difficult relationships can impact our mental health are fuelling family estrangement, say psychologists.

www.bbc.com

ETA: About the man in the first example, I wonder why he didn't cut his racist parents off sooner. Surely they can't suddenly have started saying lots of racist things? Wouldn't they always have been like that? Maybe he misconstrued something or they're getting dementia. It just seems very odd that they would let fly with terrible racist things all of a sudden if they hadn't always been like that.

 

[telephone89]

I think a lot of people in the past would put themselves through hell to not estrange because its family/blood. People have really taken a much stronger stance on their own mental health and self care in recent years. Just because someone isnt a racist or pedophile doesnt mean they are a good person, or good to be around. Also one outsiders view of "bumbling" and "overbearing" could be much much worse to the person who it's being done to. And in general not one offs. Continual and repeated nature of that could also be a factor.

 

[Lookinagain]

How interesting, @Lookinagain!

Are you saying that although both sides are European, they are from different countries with different cultures? I'd love to know the two, and which type is which, if you feel comfortable answering. I always imagined that Eastern European cultures would be somewhat colder than, say, people from the Southern Mediterranean areas like Spain. I don't know why.

yes, both European but different countries. I don't want to name countries as I don't want to offend anyone, but i will say one side is from the southern Mediterranean area vs. the other which is more north and west of there (not east). Again, only my personal thoughts based on friends and family. No further than that.

 

[Lookinagain]

Just found this on the BBC. It seems that estrangements are indeed on the rise, which fits with my anecdotal observations.

Family estrangement: Why adults are cutting off their parents

Polarised politics and a growing awareness of how difficult relationships can impact our mental health are fuelling family estrangement, say psychologists.

www.bbc.com

ETA: About the man in the first example, I wonder why he didn't cut his racist parents off sooner. Surely they can't suddenly have started saying lots of racist things? Wouldn't they always have been like that? Maybe he misconstrued something or they're getting dementia. It just seems very odd that they would let fly with terrible racist things all of a sudden if they hadn't always been like that.

I do think politics have impacted this estrangement issue. My sister and I are on totally different sides of the political spectrum. We don't live in the same states, so we have just agreed not to talk politics or religion as neither one of us can understand how the other thinks. That works for us, but I think if we lived closer and saw each other more often, it would be difficult to avoid these topics since they are so "present".

 

[TooPatient]

I think the closeness of families, or lack thereof, can also be cultural/ethnic. I will only speak for my own. Both sides are of European ancestry. One side can be more secretive and hold fairly long grudges. The other side is more wide open about personal things and don't seem to hold grudges at all. I see the same characteristics in friends and their families who come from both, or one or the other backgrounds. So I don't think it's just family traits but something more in the culture in which they were raised. I don't know if I'm right or wrong, but it's something I think I've witnessed on more than one occasion and therefore concluded there might be something to it.

Interesting point!

My grandmother and her sisters were something else to see entirely. There was much discussion of this or that offense that led to decades of family not speaking. Like 40+ years. Their family came directly from two specific countries.

I think some of it is also the last straw sort of thing. A lot of stuff going on that is obnoxious but let go in order to "keep the peace" and keep the family all talking and then one day it is just one thing too many. Looking from the outside, it sounds crazy to estrange from a person over that but to the people who saw everything put up with for years it makes sense and everyone wonders why it didn't happen sooner.

ETA: in my personal life, I spent years refusing to set foot anywhere my mother's husband would be. The final straw? He complimented my new car.

 

[Jambalaya]

I think a lot of people in the past would put themselves through hell to not estrange because its family/blood. People have really taken a much stronger stance on their own mental health and self care in recent years. Just because someone isnt a racist or pedophile doesnt mean they are a good person, or good to be around. Also one outsiders view of "bumbling" and "overbearing" could be much much worse to the person who it's being done to. And in general not one offs. Continual and repeated nature of that could also be a factor.

Well, I had the same parents as the person who estranged had, and it was done to me, too. And much worse because I chose not to have kids. In this case, the person who initiated the estrangement hated her entire family as far back as I can remember, and she's generally not a nice person. Quite the bully. Interestingly, her (our) grandmother did the same to her own family. In the case of this person, I believe it's a character issue. As annoying/overbearing as our parents were sometimes, they also gave us tons of love and did their very best for us. Their reward was to rarely see their grandchildren and for my father to be left on his own after our mother died. (I moved away, my sister remained close, but never visited our dad after our mother died, and when he got himself a new companion, my sister made it her business to hate the woman and refused to see either of them. The companion was a bit annoying because she talked nonstop, and there were definitely times I wanted to scream, but the woman was 84, had a ton of health issues, and no family of her own.)

ETA: That sister also distanced herself and her family from her in-laws, too. For example, refused to have them over around Christmastime even though they only lived 5 mins drive away and she had three of their grandchildren.

I feel like estrangements are never questioned because putting yourself first is so fashionable these days. Yes, some estrangements are absolutely deserved! But some are the result of nasty, selfish people using mental health as an excuse to let their true selves run riot.

I guess my post is really about those estrangements that seem to be unnecessary rather than deserved. I know we can't truly know which is which from the outside, but when it happens within your own family, you can make fairly accurate judgement calls.

 

[Jambalaya]

I think some of it is also the last straw sort of thing. A lot of stuff going on that is obnoxious but let go in order to "keep the peace" and keep the family all talking and then one day it is just one thing too many.

Yeah, this is really true.

 

[telephone89]

I feel like estrangements are never questioned because putting yourself first is so fashionable these days. Yes, some estrangements are absolutely deserved! But some are the result of nasty, selfish people using mental health as an excuse to let their true selves run riot.

Ok, I don't think taking care of ones own mental health should be considered "fashionable" but different strokes... And if this person is really that terrible and nasty, estrangement doesnt seem like the worst thing? Why do you want to associate with someone who you don't have a single nice thing to say about? It seems like you are both better off.

 

[Jambalaya]

@telephone89 I'm not estranged from her. We have a great relationship since I called her out on her behavior toward me a few years ago. I really thought that was the end for us, but she decided to shape up where I'm concerned. She is still estranged from the rest of the family and from her in-laws. It was very painful for me to watch her treatment of our parents. Oh, I'm well aware of her flaws! But I'm also aware of her good points. I guess, for me, it takes an awful lot to initiate an estrangement, so I can't understand her approach at all. Our parents did SO much for her. I'm the same with friends. I feel like I still value people for who they are even if I don't like every single thing they say or do.

There has been some movement on the family-estrangement front lately (not with this person, another one - a niece/uncle) which made me think of all this.

The uncle loves the niece very much and did SO much for her throughout her teens and twenties, including paying for private boarding school and helping her with the cost when she chose to go out of state for college. And he couldn't easily afford it. But she is to the extreme left and he is very moderate. She is gay and he has always been 100% supportive of her sexuality and included her partners in things, and has no problem with the drag-queen story times (we were just talking about that) and is supportive of women's rights and appalled by what's happening with abortion rights. He is pretty progressive. However, he is not overtly in-your-face "woke" (he's in his midfifties). She is pretty extreme, and I think he's too balanced for her.

In my family, I do not think the estrangements are deserved, and for this reason, I suspect that not all of them are, in general. With Harry and Meghan, she clearly couldn't cope with the British press, but they're not the RF's fault.

It's painful to see the uncle being hurt. He loves the niece so much. He doesn't have his own children.

 

[Snowdrop13]

Really?? How interesting! What makes you say that?

Can’t remember where I read it, might have been in relation to the forthcoming book!

 

[Jambalaya]

ETA: In my family, there are four active estrangements (not involving me, but involving my loved ones). I know the ins and outs of each, and I don't think any of them are deserved, reasonable, or rational. I think they're the result of mental illness on the part of the estrangers, not helped by all the stress and negativity in today's world.

 

[Jambalaya]

Can’t remember where I read it, might have been in relation to the forthcoming book!

Well, I guess we will see!

 

[diamondringlover]

I have been distancing myself from my family for years...I have a sister that can be toxic, it took my years to realize it, she bullied me into doing things I didn't want to do for the "family" and I refuse to deal with it anymore, that is one thing covid has taught me is that I only truly need my immediate family, I have a few close friends that I see on occasion and of course I see my mom, she is somewhat toxic as well, but she is my mom and I love her....but for the most part I keep to myself...