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Is Brillianteering a factor with this diamond?

curiousbob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
5
This diamond's cut grade was affected by brillianteering. I understand the impact of this varies. Could any experts please comment if it looks like a problem? Thanks very much!! :twirl:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1407910.asp

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.89
Cut: Ideal
Color: I
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 60.6%
Table: 57.0%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium
Culet:
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.24*6.27*3.79

1407910id.jpg
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,440
The 35 degree crown can handle that level of painting without going dead.
The trade off is slightly watery/mushy scintillation rather than sharply on/off under some conditions.
It is a very real trade off in my opinion and worth the VG grade, but some people strongly disagree.
But there is a but.
In my opinion something like this is better than some GIA EX cuts which have poor crown/pavilion angle relationships.
They can be a way to save some money and still get a very nice looking diamond and is way better than a diamond that gets a VG for crown/pavilion angle relationship.
 

curiousbob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
5
Karl_K|1316266499|3019432 said:
The 35 degree crown can handle that level of painting without going dead.
The trade off is slightly watery/mushy scintillation rather than sharply on/off under some conditions.
It is a very real trade off in my opinion and worth the VG grade, but some people strongly disagree.
But there is a but.
In my opinion something like this is better than some GIA EX cuts which have poor crown/pavilion angle relationships.
They can be a way to save some money and still get a very nice looking diamond and is way better than a diamond that gets a VG for crown/pavilion angle relationship.
Thank you very much for your feedback. So the impact of this is on scintillation, but shouldn't affect fire or brilliance? The price is very attractive at $4350. Is there going to be a significantly noticable improvement in visual performance moving to a smaller diamond with a true Ideal cut?
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,105
Agree with Karl that it's far better a tradeoff than other ways in which a stone might earn the GIA VG demerit. I don't personally like the look of a significantly painted stone myself, but brands have made fortunes off the practice so clearly others do!

As Karl specifies the high crown is a definite plus in this situation. Brillianteering in this context means any change from the "classic" way in which crown and pavilion facets meet at the girdle - in a "classic" girdle the girdle is the same thickness where the pavilion mains meet the bezel facets, and where the lower girdle facet pair intersections meet the upper girdle pair intersections. In a painted girdle the intersection of bezel/mains is thinner - meaning that there is less difference in angle between the actual upper girdle/bezel/uppper girdle facet trios, so you won't see some of the artifacts that you'd see near the "classic" girdle that are due to these facets refracting light back at you in certain ways. Logically the fire output must be lessened - greater odds of individual refractions combining back into white before they reach your eyes, since they're thrown off at more similar angles - realistically w/ a high crown I couldn't say if it's something you'd note IRL, with *your* two eyes. It would be worse if the crown was already flatter, and so the differences in angles between these facets already muted.



I find the lack of clear on/off and the missing contrast at the girdle in painted stones boring, myself.
 

curiousbob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
5
Yssie|1316278380|3019515 said:
Agree with Karl that it's far better a tradeoff than other ways in which a stone might earn the GIA VG demerit. I don't personally like the look of a significantly painted stone myself, but brands have made fortunes off the practice so clearly others do!

As Karl specifies the high crown is a definite plus in this situation. Brillianteering in this context means any change from the "classic" way in which crown and pavilion facets meet at the girdle - in a "classic" girdle the girdle is the same thickness where the pavilion mains meet the bezel facets, and where the lower girdle facet pair intersections meet the upper girdle pair intersections. In a painted girdle the intersection of bezel/mains is thinner - meaning that there is less difference in angle between the actual upper girdle/bezel/uppper girdle facet trios, so you won't see some of the artifacts that you'd see near the "classic" girdle that are due to these facets refracting light back at you in certain ways. Logically the fire output must be lessened - greater odds of individual refractions combining back into white before they reach your eyes, since they're thrown off at more similar angles - realistically w/ a high crown I couldn't say if it's something you'd note IRL, with *your* two eyes. It would be worse if the crown was already flatter, and so the differences in angles between these facets already muted.

I find the lack of clear on/off and the missing contrast at the girdle in painted stones boring, myself.

Many thanks for the explanation of what constitutes brillianteering in this instance. Is it correct to say that brillianteering is something that is done to enhance the appearance under certain conditions but at the expense of overall performance?

How would you compare the diamond above to a GIA excellent stone such as this one at the same weight and price but with lower clarity and color:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1396547.asp

J-VS2-Premium-Cut-0_9-Carat-Round-Diamond.jpg
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 4, 2008
Messages
10,440
curiousbob|1316281981|3019555 said:
How would you compare the diamond above to a GIA excellent stone such as this one at the same weight and price but with lower clarity and color:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1396547.asp
This one the pavilion is slightly too deep, the table is also larger so its a slight different look.
I would have to see an IS image to say if the pavilion is a big issue.
The GIA numbers are averaged and rounded and are not precise enough to begin to judge this stone.
 

yssie

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
21,105
curiousbob|1316281981|3019555 said:
Many thanks for the explanation of what constitutes brillianteering in this instance. Is it correct to say that brillianteering is something that is done to enhance the appearance under certain conditions but at the expense of overall performance?
I don't know... some people really like the look of eightstars for example, which is the brand I had in mind earlier. I don't, but that's my personal preference. All stones have some girdle treatment to some extent.. it's just a matter of when it becomes a negative, and a negative in whose eyes, I think.

I haven't yet heard of (more than negligible) digging - either crown or pav - as a positive contributor to performance, maybe someone with more knowledge and experience can chime in on this one.

How would you compare the diamond above to a GIA excellent stone such as this one at the same weight and price but with lower clarity and color:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS2-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1396547.asp
ditto request IS, numbers on the report and JA still photo don't tell you enough to weed or consider further
 

curiousbob

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 16, 2011
Messages
5
Karl and Yssie thank you both very much for the feedback! I think i'll be going with the original diamond posted ... it seems like a nice stone for my budget :) ...
 
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