Is Anyone Else Thinking About Leaving the USA?

[MissGotRocks]

No, I am an American through and through. Not perfect but much better than many countries in the world. I would never want to leave America.

 

[Calliecake]

I’m so happy your dream of living near your son and DIL is finally becoming reality @Austina.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

Wales looks better every day.

 

[FL_runner]

No, and I feel motivated to work to make it a better, more equitable home for all our citizens in whatever way I am able

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I have some family in Canadialand, but we just can't. Also, DH's side of the family has been regionally where we are, in one way or another, for several hundred years. They are literally in the foundation; so old they're almost gone, but the naming remains.
We can be stubborn, for good or ill.
I would rather work to improve the conditions of my home as best I can, if I can, for as long as I can. If the day comes that living here becomes truly untenable then I would, for my children.

 

[qubitasaurus]

I received my DH's colleague and wife for lunch on Sunday. They left the US to live in France about a year ago mostly because of the political climate. They're in their mid fifties.

They're both lovely people, very educated and very patriotic.

He's very happy with his decision so far. His company has taken care of the whole adminstrative process though and most of the problems qubitasaurus writes about don't apply. They have worked out a way to pay into his 401 k, if he gets fired his visa isn't affected immediately (it would be much harder to renew but has been granted for a couple of years) , his unemployment payments are treated the same as any citizen (one needs to have paid a certain amount of time before being able to receive any benefits) and his healthcare isn't dependent on his job. Once one is in the country legally, one is covered.

His feedback was that he's happy that he's in a place where not everything is getting politicized (like wearing a mask etc). I'm sure they'll go back at some point but both found a break very freeing.

Did his company transfer him from the US division to the French division by any chance? My brother's industry does this (petrochemical engineering) and when they transfer the company works out everything typically with expat packages which covers the children's schooling and everyone's health insurance, continue contributions to their retirement funds back home and often a car and even accommodation is provided. It's nice when they do this. Otherwise you really have to negotiate the salary to be able to do it all yourself. My industry does not do this at all. Instead we negotiate up the salaries and often negotiate to continue keeping our jobs in the country we just left on a part time basis.

My husband paid into socialised unemployment insurance in China oddly enough. It's not a thing where we currently live in singapore. Unfortunately if he ever lost his job there was no visa scheme to keep him in the country. In theory it was a lovely idea -- a socialised security net for everyone. In practice the social security schemes have a remarkable way of acting against you if your visa is tied to your employer. We used to laugh about it, as we mostly were pretty foot lose and fancy free in China-- we were having a lovely time and just though the whole thing was hillarious. Its not as funny as we get older and pick up more obligations. We effectively turned down jobs in the Netherlands last year, largely influenced by the inability to address a few of these problems.

 

[icy_jade]

* being charged income tax by your home country/municipality as well as the country you live in. Or being charged taxation on the amount you bring home when you repatriate -- despite the fact that this is effectively your retirement savings.

Wouldn’t there be double taxation agreements for that? Eg in Singapore I think many agreements exists so that expats don’t get doubly taxed. In fact as places like HK and SG have lower tax rates, most nationalities that can choose will opt for the lower tax rate. But US is on worldwide tax so not sure how it will work out. From what I can recall have to pay US tax but it’s been years since I studied taxation.

 

[kgizo]

A part of me would love to live in the US but your gun regulations and health system are more than I could handle.

We have gun regulations?!

We are focused on getting out of Texas. Ideally will leave on 11/9/22.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Wouldn’t there be double taxation agreements for that? Eg in Singapore I think many agreements exists so that expats don’t get doubly taxed. In fact as places like HK and SG have lower tax rates, most nationalities that can choose will opt for the lower tax rate. But US is on worldwide tax so not sure how it will work out. From what I can recall have to pay US tax but it’s been years since I studied taxation.

I think I've had friends who paid US as well as Singaporean tax while here. I think the US tax was to their state not to the federal goverment -- although its been a few years so I could have the details wrong. I also had family friends repatriate to Australia and while they never paid australian income tax while they were here, they did struggle with establishing that they shouldn't pay tax on the amount they were bringing home -- I think this money mostly came from the sale of their house in SG (I have to say that I don't know the eventual outcome of this one -- but it is something I keep meaning to see an australian tax accountant about).

 

[icy_jade]

I think I've had friends who paid US as well as Singaporean tax while here. I think the US tax was to their state not to the federal goverment -- although its been a few years so I could have the details wrong. I also had family friends repatriate to Australia and while they never paid australian income tax while they were here, they did struggle with establishing that they shouldn't pay tax on the amount they were bringing home -- I think this money mostly came from the sale of their house in SG (I have to say that I don't know the eventual outcome of this one -- but it is something I keep meaning to see an australian tax accountant about).

Does this help?

Australia-Singapore Double Tax Treaty

A comprehensive guide to Australia-Singapore Double Taxation Agreement including types of taxes covered, basis for taxation, and applicable tax rates.

www.corporateservices.com

Best to confirm against the document in IRAS site though.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Does this help?

Australia-Singapore Double Tax Treaty

A comprehensive guide to Australia-Singapore Double Taxation Agreement including types of taxes covered, basis for taxation, and applicable tax rates.

www.corporateservices.com

Best to confirm against the document in IRAS site though.

Perhaps but I think it wasn't income tax, it was the money from the sale of their house which they were transfering to Australia as they were returning home. I assume it worked out as I don't know the resolution, you're right I need to check.

Edit-- Actually it should be income from
alienation of property, So you're right it should have come out in their favour.

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

Did his company transfer him from the US division to the French division by any chance? My brother's industry does this (petrochemical engineering) and when they transfer the company works out everything typically with expat packages which covers the children's schooling and everyone's health insurance, continue contributions to their retirement funds back home and often a car and even accommodation is provided. It's nice when they do this. Otherwise you really have to negotiate the salary to be able to do it all yourself. My industry does not do this at all. Instead we negotiate up the salaries and often negotiate to continue keeping our jobs in the country we just left on a part time basis.

My husband paid into socialised unemployment insurance in China oddly enough. It's not a thing where we currently live in singapore. Unfortunately if he ever lost his job there was no visa scheme to keep him in the country. In theory it was a lovely idea -- a socialised security net for everyone. In practice the social security schemes have a remarkable way of acting against you if your visa is tied to your employer. We used to laugh about it, as we mostly were pretty foot lose and fancy free in China-- we were having a lovely time and just though the whole thing was hillarious. Its not as funny as we get older and pick up more obligations. We effectively turned down jobs in the Netherlands last year, largely influenced by the inability to address a few of these problems.

Nope, but DH really wanted to employ this lovely gentleman and knows the US system pretty well, so he worked everything out for him.

It is true that the social security and retirement payments in those socialised funds is tricky. I changed from one EU country to another and went into the details of those transfers.... In that particular case (EU to EU) the laws are entirely made to benefit the employee ( they walked me through step by step - secure all benefits in the country of origin first, those will then be honoured in new country of if new country itself doesn't offer them).

DH however did turn down a position in China when his the employer started to negotiate the expat package too aggressively. Not worth the risk at all for a family.

 

[Arcadian]

I might be too American to live anywhere else. I don't mind visiting though. America has its issues, but its one of the few places where you don't lose your limbs or your life if you criticize the government.

And yeah I love my guns. I will never willingly give them up.

 

[icy_jade]

I think I've had friends who paid US as well as Singaporean tax while here. I think the US tax was to their state not to the federal goverment -- although its been a few years so I could have the details wrong.

I definitely recall from my (long ago) studies that the US tax system penalizes US expats vs expats from other countries in the sense that expats from other countries may be able to opt for local tax rates and actually save on taxes/have higher take home while US expats don’t really have the option.

Having kids definitely complicates matters and I’ve heard that as a factor for expats staying on in Singapore vs some other locations (apparently very good international schools in Singapore, tho expensive). Plus Singapore is much safer for kids.

Personally I’ve heard of quite a few American expats who are very happy in Singapore. They sort of get used to stuff like: affordable domestic help, cheap food (if you eat local) and there are enough expats around to form their “expat bubbles”. And they need to get used to small houses/apartments of course.

TBH I think you can have a great life any where so long as you are rich, or at least relatively well off.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Nope, but DH really wanted to employ this lovely gentleman and knows the US system pretty well, so he worked everything out for him.

It is true that the social security and retirement payments in those socialised funds is tricky. I changed from one EU country to another and went into the details of those transfers.... In that particular case (EU to EU) the laws are entirely made to benefit the employee ( they walked me through step by step - secure all benefits in the country of origin first, those will then be honoured in new country of if new country itself doesn't offer them).

DH however did turn down a position in China when his the employer started to negotiate the expat package too aggressively. Not worth the risk at all for a family.

It made me smile that he set the contract up in a thoughtful way.

The socialist policies are actually really nice, it's something we thuroughly support as good for the people in general. It can just be a bit of a headache to understand how it will impact you (if you're not sure how long you'll be there, and if the system hasn't neccessarily been set up to allow easy transfer to your home country or whereever you might be going next.).

I definitely recall from my (long ago) studies that the US tax system penalizes US expats vs expats from other countries in the sense that expats from other countries may be able to opt for local tax rates and actually save on taxes/have higher take home while US expats don’t really have the option.

Having kids definitely complicates matters and I’ve heard that as a factor for expats staying on in Singapore vs some other locations (apparently very good international schools in Singapore, tho expensive). Plus Singapore is much safer for kids.

Personally I’ve heard of quite a few American expats who are very happy in Singapore. They sort of get used to stuff like: affordable domestic help, cheap food (if you eat local) and there are enough expats around to form their “expat bubbles”. And they need to get used to small houses/apartments of course.

TBH I think you can have a great life any where so long as you are rich, or at least relatively well off.

My experience was that they generally really loved singapore, but I think it was the culture they enjoyed. There's a whole range of really amazing things about living overseas, here or in general almost anywhere. And most thuroughly enjoyed the upsides.

 

[GreenPapaya]

Yes, but not for political reasons. More for monetary. It's just too expensive in nyc to retire. I have a pension and can retire at 57. My husband is French and his parents have a small cottage near the Pyrenees on the French side and a small apartment in Versailles. We're thinking of retiring in San Sebastián, Spain for the food, cost of living and weather. I'll have to check re: health insurance etc... he worked some years in France and Germany and I will have work sponsored health insurance in retirement and maybe some VA benefits too.
I see my family once or twice a year when we live in the same state, so i think it's fine re family lol. I was fluent in Spanish years ago so hopefully it'll come back in my dotage lol
Or if it's not possible, we'll go to Delaware, it's like a different country than NYC

 

[missy]

Yes, but not for political reasons. More for monetary. It's just too expensive in nyc to retire. I have a pension and can retire at 57. My husband is French and his parents have a small cottage near the Pyrenees on the French side and a small apartment in Versailles. We're thinking of retiring in San Sebastián, Spain for the food, cost of living and weather. I'll have to check re: health insurance etc... he worked some years in France and Germany and I will have work sponsored health insurance in retirement and maybe some VA benefits too.
I see my family once or twice a year when we live in the same state, so i think it's fine re family lol. I was fluent in Spanish years ago so hopefully it'll come back in my dotage lol
Or if it's not possible, we'll go to Delaware, it's like a different country than NYC

I feel the same. I saw a graphic and for those of us who live in the NE (and in specific states NY and NJ) the cost of living exceeds everywhere else in the USA. It is crazy how much we are paying in property taxes and how much we are paying per square foot to live here. Absolutely nuts. But not sure where else we would go.

Like @MissGotRocks I am reluctant to leave the USA as while there is much wrong I don't see that other countries are better. There are good things and bad things all over and I do love living here. Not perfect but where is? And my family lives here and I plan on living here for the rest of our life.

Just not sure what state we will end up in forever though it is looking like despite the cost of living we will end up exactly where we are now. I definitely need to be in a diverse state/city where there are kind people who don't judge one by religion, race, gender etc. And for me the NE represents that more than any other region. Plus I do enjoy change of seasons. To some degree. But I digress. I could write a book with my thoughts on this issue. Where to live and retire.

 

[Austina]

I can’t wait to hear your impressions of Texas! I’ve been to dozens of countries and US states but never Texas! My friends tell us they have bugs the size of small dogs! Everything’s bigger in Texas!

We’ve been coming here for many years @AprilBaby. Back in 1992, we were travelling back from Acapulco, and had to change planes in Dallas. When we got on the plane for the flight home, we got talking to an American couple, and found we had a lot in common. We ended up talking the whole night flight away, exchanged contact details and have been friends ever since. Our first trip to Texas was to see them, and they visited us in the UK many times over the years.

10 years ago, our son got the opportunity to come and work here, he came, loved it and stayed. We’ve been visiting him usually 3 times a year since (apart from the last 21 months because of Covid), so we’ve got to know the area. I wouldn’t say that Austin in typically Texan, it’s a young city, lots of techies, and now lots of Californians living here.

We’ve always found all Americans to be very friendly, maybe because we’re different, so when, 6 years ago, he asked if we’d be prepared to move here to be close by, we didn’t hesitate for a second. It took 5 years for him to become a citizen, which then enabled us to apply for a green card. We used an immigration attorney (waste of money) to help us with the paperwork, and in August we got our interviews at the Embassy in the UK, and were granted our visas.

We sold our house very quickly and last week it was all packed up ready to ship. We arrived here on Wednesday, no regrets, yes, our lives are going to be very different, yes, things like medical insurance are horrendously expensive compared to what we paid in the UK, property tax is exorbitant compared to the UK equivalent, but property prices are a lot lower, so swings and roundabouts.

We have several American friends, so although we’ve left friends in the UK, we do know people here, and of course, the biggest bonus of all, we’re going to be living near our son and lovely DIL. We had reconciled ourselves to the fact that as we got older, we’d probably be less able to make the 5000 mile journey regularly, so wouldn’t see them so much, as they’re both working and have a life of their own to live.

We’re looking forward to our house here being ready early next year, and to making new friends and enjoying new experiences.

 

[Matata]

Welcome to the US @Austina.

 

[chemgirl]

Not American, but we cancelled our plans to move to the UK due to political concerns and general attitudes that we don’t agree with.

We opted to stay in Canada.

Adding: not that Canada is perfect, but at least certain issues aren’t so in your face.

 

[AprilBaby]

We’ve been coming here for many years @AprilBaby. Back in 1992, we were travelling back from Acapulco, and had to change planes in Dallas. When we got on the plane for the flight home, we got talking to an American couple, and found we had a lot in common. We ended up talking the whole night flight away, exchanged contact details and have been friends ever since. Our first trip to Texas was to see them, and they visited us in the UK many times over the years.

10 years ago, our son got the opportunity to come and work here, he came, loved it and stayed. We’ve been visiting him usually 3 times a year since (apart from the last 21 months because of Covid), so we’ve got to know the area. I wouldn’t say that Austin in typically Texan, it’s a young city, lots of techies, and now lots of Californians living here.

We’ve always found all Americans to be very friendly, maybe because we’re different, so when, 6 years ago, he asked if we’d be prepared to move here to be close by, we didn’t hesitate for a second. It took 5 years for him to become a citizen, which then enabled us to apply for a green card. We used an immigration attorney (waste of money) to help us with the paperwork, and in August we got our interviews at the Embassy in the UK, and were granted our visas.

We sold our house very quickly and last week it was all packed up ready to ship. We arrived here on Wednesday, no regrets, yes, our lives are going to be very different, yes, things like medical insurance are horrendously expensive compared to what we paid in the UK, property tax is exorbitant compared to the UK equivalent, but property prices are a lot lower, so swings and roundabouts.

We have several American friends, so although we’ve left friends in the UK, we do know people here, and of course, the biggest bonus of all, we’re going to be living near our son and lovely DIL. We had reconciled ourselves to the fact that as we got older, we’d probably be less able to make the 5000 mile journey regularly, so wouldn’t see them so much, as they’re both working and have a life of their own to live.

We’re looking forward to our house here being ready early next year, and to making new friends and enjoying new experiences.

Welcome home!