Is Anyone Else Thinking About Leaving the USA?

[seaurchin]

I'd have been gone a few years ago if not for family ties. Waiting to see if the start of a return to sanity continues but making plans for if it does not.

Anyone else? Where would you go, what would your "last straw" be and what have you done towards it so far, if anything? Details welcome.

 

[missy]

Probably not.

Because my sister and nieces and parents live here.

Also because the grass always seems greener but when you look more closely there are (big) issues everywhere.

We cannot discuss politics but there is much I am unhappy with here. Not sure it is much better anywhere else though. Politics always has been and always will be a very dirty business. IMO.

There is no perfect place to live. I wish.
And believe it or not a few of my meds I would be unable to get elsewhere so that alone would give me pause. And I do have a few excellent health care providers and health care is a critical consideration for me.

So for all those reasons and more my answer is probably not. But I never say never and reserve the right to change my mind at any time.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I qualify for birthright citizenship in Costa Rica but I wouldn't have a job down there and that wouldn't work

 

[Matata]

I started looking for alternatives in 2016 and it's an option still under consideration. Many many details to work through and we couldn't leave altogether but are seriously considering establishing residency somewhere else. Portugal and Malta are in the running for ease of gaining residency.

 

[stracci2000]

I qualify for birthright citizenship in Costa Rica but I wouldn't have a job down there and that wouldn't work

We have friends who moved to Italy in 2016.
The husband had birthright citizenship, so they sold their home and moved.
They were both retired with no children, so no family ties to worry about.
I've been jealous ever since!

 

[Rhea]

This is often discussed among my friends but it's not easy, most people can't just pick up and move. Gaining residency or citizenship is no easy task to most places. Sure, the politicians make it sounds like people just flood in so you can do the same elsewhere but that's just not the case most of the time. It's more than just the ability to move though, it's expensive, time-consuming, and starting over with a new social network is a challenge. If you do move, getting back can be complex, I haven't seen my family in over 2 years due to the pandemic, the restrictions, and the expense it's created.

Do you actually have the ability to realistically go live somewhere else? What type of security would you have there? Work visas usually have limits and are often tied to an employer which can cause it's own set of problems over birthright citizenship.

 

[bludiva]

we have talked about this. i want to identify our line in the sand b/c it's too easy to stay just a little longer and put up with just a little more. my husband and i both have citizenship elsewhere, but, without getting political, the things that are making me disillusioned with the U.S. are happening in other countries too. i'd be willing at this point to retire somewhere pretty and check out of worrying about society, but my partner isn't. we are looking at moving out of the south though.

 

[Bron357]

I’m Australian and it’s great here but it’s so far away from everything else.
A part of me would love to live in the US but your gun regulations and health system are more than I could handle.

 

[HGar]

Before COVID-19 we travelled 1-2 times a year to Oahu and it had always been our dream to end up spending 6mths there and 6mths back in Australia. As much as I enjoy going to mainland USA I would never live there - Oahu is more “Australia” like IMO so would be an easier transition.

This has now been put on hold (a) due to travel restrictions (b) we have one child going into junior high school as well as one entering senior high school (c) our middle child is seriously considering a move to England to peruse a car racing dream - which in all likelihood see he and my husband spend at least 6-8mths away next year if it comes to fruition.

We have a very relaxed and comfortable life in Australia so I could never move permanently - it’s nice to visit places, but even better to return home.

 

[seaurchin]

We got our permanent residency visas elsewhere but moving away comes with its own set of issues. Maybe just setting up other options is the best plan for now.

 

[lala646]

Like @Matata, DH & I toy with the idea of Portugal, simply because the buy-in for residency is so affordable. We are very lucky that my DH will be retiring with a pension when we are 55 at the latest (we're both 45 now). On top of that, we're both aggressive savers, so we're seriously thinking about just checking out of the workforce at that point. We love NYC, but my husband grew up here, and I've been here for more than 20 years, and we're both ready for more space, a gentler climate, and a slightly less urban lifestyle. I think what will more likely happen is we will end up with a summer home somewhere in the northern US, like upstate NY, and a winter home in a warmer state, like NM. As much as the US feels broken, it's home. I don't know if we could leave it permanently.

 

[Lookinagain]

I've certainly investigated it and like others above, figured out that Portugal would be doable, and I've been there several times and like it. I guess it would be very hard to actually leave, but 2024 might make it so I have no real ethical choice. I'm old enough that I wouldn't be looking for work so that makes it easier. I don't want to move, and I know that there is no perfect place, but perhaps moving out of the country would make me less upset on a daily basis which happens to me here, every time I watch the news. Unfortunately, I don't speak Portuguese and really s**ck at learning new languages, so that would be another challenge. And I doubt I'd ever do it, but definitely thought about it enough to investigate.

 

[LilAlex]

I feel a duty and obligation to fix what is broken about our country. Unless my life were in danger (and it was getting unexpectedly close to that a year or two ago), I would not flee for my own sake.

The number of people with the will and know-how to fix what is broken is dwindling. Education in rural areas (and in minority-predominant areas therein) is dismal. So what's the emphasis there now? What you better not teach .

 

[Matata]

I'm retired and leaning heavily on DH to retire. There are places with better weather, safer environments, better health care, and lower cost of living that attract many expats. Those factors are appealing as is the chance to immerse in another culture to expand personal horizons. Dual citizenship isn't a crime.

 

[redwood66]

Absolutely not. There's nowhere else I'd rather be.

 

[nala]

Nope! Not even for a second.

 

[Musia]

We moved from the great state of California where we lived for the last 18 years to Utah 1 month ago. Our son and his little family are with us, temporarily occupying the basement. Hopefully in 2 years our daughter will come with her family and stay in the basement till the right house for them is found. Her husband can't work remotely so they decided to stay in CA for a little longer. Life is good again! Having no TV and working hard around the house and in the yard helps a lot with maintaining sanity. We love this country and think that every person/couple/family could find a place suitable for them to have a happy life. I am sure many people are very happy in CA and don't want to leave the state.

 

[swingtime]

I get hit by the urge to flee, but this is my country.

 

[Ella]

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[qubitasaurus]

This is often discussed among my friends but it's not easy, most people can't just pick up and move. Gaining residency or citizenship is no easy task to most places. Sure, the politicians make it sounds like people just flood in so you can do the same elsewhere but that's just not the case most of the time. It's more than just the ability to move though, it's expensive, time-consuming, and starting over with a new social network is a challenge. If you do move, getting back can be complex, I haven't seen my family in over 2 years due to the pandemic, the restrictions, and the expense it's created.

Do you actually have the ability to realistically go live somewhere else? What type of security would you have there? Work visas usually have limits and are often tied to an employer which can cause it's own set of problems over birthright citizenship.

I think this is spot on. Living overseas is actually a bit of a hot mess. Especially at the moment. A few of the problems you face include

* paying into a socialised pension scheme while not being able to remain in the country after you stop working. This can be 20% of your wage contributed to something you'll never get any benefit from, while you simultaneously don't get a 401k account. My husband used to also pay insurance against unemployment -- also a socialised scheme. But if he ever got fired he would be immediately deported.

* being charged income tax by your home country/municipality as well as the country you live in. Or being charged taxation on the amount you bring home when you repatriate -- despite the fact that this is effectively your retirement savings.

* not having full access to social services as expats don't get the same access as citizens. This extends to buying private health insurance, paying for private schooling as the children can not attend local schools, and often out of pocket medical expenses which somehow were excluded from that private health insurance.
If you have young children expect expenses to be at least 30 k per child per year just to offset the lack of social services. If you have a pre-existing medical condition that suddenly requires urgent surgery you can more or less expect that it might bankrupt you. I had a friend recently who almost got bankrupted by this.

* foreign buyers taxes. While you live here your official status is foreigner. And you can expect to pay taxes on things like housing purchases thanks to this status. This can be large sums in the 100s of thousands (actually we just paid this tax, and it cost 100-200 k. I think it just erased my bling budget again ).

* you lose almost all your friends. I've lived overseas for 10 years and almost all the friends I made over that decade have left, which kind of says something. It can be a lonely way to live.

* being cut off from family and friends. In the last 2 years especially I've had an extremely close family member die, and another contract cancer. So has my husband. We just sat there and watched. I think several people may have thought we were callus. But the truth of the matter was there was nothing else we could do. I have never gotten to say goodbye to anyone, other than over the phone. One of the things I would really like to change about my life going forward is to be able to be there to say goodbye. Also every time I saw my older relatives I would be tacitly saying goodbye because of this -- knowing it might be the last time I saw them.

*expatriation is difficult. You may not get the right to relocate. If you do, then your family members may not be allowed to shift with you. If they are allowed to shift its likely they won't be allowed to work at all -- after a few years many couples arround me have given up as one of the pair feels very confined by this.


* returning home can be difficult. In some countries there are limits on how much you can transfer overseas. And your home government may tax this money. Needless to say we have bank accounts in 4 countries. Which is a headache in itself.


It's actually quite tricky. Getting overseas is difficult, remaining is also a continual compromise.

 

[Calliecake]

@seaurchin, There are days I’ve definitely thought about it. I can’t see us ever leaving. If I lived in Texas I would definitely want to get the heck out of that state.

 

[bludiva]

@seaurchin, There are days I’ve definitely thought about it. I can’t see us ever leaving. If I lived in Texas I would definitely want to get the heck out of that state.

I'm calling it Operation Get The Heck Outta Dodge. Wish us luck

 

[yssie]

Having toured the dang planet as a child (my parents moved around… A lot…) I want nothing more than to stay happily ever after in my part of the country in my house with my yard and my white picket fence.

There’s a lot that we Americans can learn from the rest of the world. But I can’t imagine a time when that fact would keep me from calling New England “home”.

 

[Austina]

@seaurchin, There are days I’ve definitely thought about it. I can’t see us ever leaving. If I lived in Texas I would definitely want to get the heck out of that state.

We’re moving from the UK to Texas tomorrow. Easy decision for us, our only child lives there and wants us to be close by.

 

[whitewave]

I think there are bright spots everywhere, so you have to find your bright spot and enjoy it. I’m stuck in my state because family and investments here, etc, so we learn to find the positives and live for the bright spots.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I might leave CT at some point, but by the time the kids are both out of the house we will be mortgage-free, so then maybe not? We would not ever leave the U.S. since DH’s family is here and we have no easy in to another country.

Can’t stand moving, maybe that’s why we’ve been in this house 17 years

 

[MaisOuiMadame]

I received my DH's colleague and wife for lunch on Sunday. They left the US to live in France about a year ago mostly because of the political climate. They're in their mid fifties.

They're both lovely people, very educated and very patriotic.

He's very happy with his decision so far. His company has taken care of the whole adminstrative process though and most of the problems qubitasaurus writes about don't apply. They have worked out a way to pay into his 401 k, if he gets fired his visa isn't affected immediately (it would be much harder to renew but has been granted for a couple of years) , his unemployment payments are treated the same as any citizen (one needs to have paid a certain amount of time before being able to receive any benefits) and his healthcare isn't dependent on his job. Once one is in the country legally, one is covered.

His feedback was that he's happy that he's in a place where not everything is getting politicized (like wearing a mask etc). I'm sure they'll go back at some point but both found a break very freeing.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

We’re moving from the UK to Texas tomorrow. Easy decision for us, our only child lives there and wants us to be close by.

have a wonderful new chapter of your life Austina
id move to the US in a heartbeat if i were younger and could get a greencard and then citizenship
Texas or NJ, NYC even


but my family has been here a long long time, i dont qualify for citizenship for any other country, most of my direct ancestors were born here

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

50% of the reason im here on PS is to interact with Americans

just sayin'

 

[AprilBaby]

have a wonderful new chapter of your life Austina
id move to the US in a heartbeat if i were younger and could get a greencard and then citizenship
Texas or NJ, NYC even


but my family has been here a long long time, i dont qualify for citizenship for any other country, most of my direct ancestors were born here

I can’t wait to hear your impressions of Texas! I’ve been to dozens of countries and US states but never Texas! My friends tell us they have bugs the size of small dogs! Everything’s bigger in Texas!