Is anyone else feeling fearful with what’s happening?

[missy]

One day when I have mote energy (Gary much better still in hospital) we need to find each other on loop troop

Absolutely Nicky. I would love that.
So happy to hear Gary is doing much better!
Hoping he’s home with you soon

 

[Calliecake]

I don’t want the US in this war. That does not mean I think highly of Iran. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Matata]

And many here are against taking out their nuclear facilities?

FFS. If anyone here stated that, I missed it and apologize for doing so. It is the manner in which the US intervened that I think is what some object to.

 

[Calliecake]

Who has ever said what you are claiming? I don’t recall anyone here stating that.

We got sucked into the dirty work. Do you not see that? I’m not trying to be argumentative.

We have between 40,000 and 50,000 US troops in the Middle East. Are you not concerned about their safety?

 

[monarch64]

I think it’s time for pie. Perhaps the sort offered in the film “The Help.”

 

[Un_Petit_Rayon_de_Soleil]

I am terrified about everything happening in the world. It is scary times. I was in the army and I am totally against it.

 

[monarch64]

I am terrified about everything happening in the world. It is scary times. I was in the army and I am totally against it.

Same. Also, I love your username!

 

[Calliecake]

I think a lot of us are feeling like you are @Un_Petit_Rayon_de_Soleil. It’s scary.

 

[ItsMainelyYou]

I think it's interesting that 72% of Israelis themselves want Their minister to resign and take responsibility. They do not want this done in their name.

72.5% of Israelis believe Netanyahu should take responsibility for Oct. 7 and resign

Israel Democracy Institute poll also finds similar percentage favors advancing to the second phase of the ceasefire-hostage release deal with Hamas

www.timesofisrael.com

Majority of Israelis Think PM Netanyahu Should Accept Responsibility for Oct 7 and Resign – Now or After the War

Around half of Israelis think that it's unlikely that President Trump will turn away from Israel, if he thinks its policies are not aligned with US interests, while close to 40% think chances are fairly high or high; 73% of the total sample support continuing with the second stage of the hostage...

en.idi.org.il

 

[Calliecake]

That is interesting @ItsMainelyYou. Thank you for posting this.

 

[Brigid]

Great post @ItsMainelyYou I shared a story (in a now deleted thread) about our Israeli friends with one family whose daughter met and fell in love with a Palestinian man, and are now engaged. This family is unnecessarily torn between two cultures that bring great culture and love BUT money and control has outweighed this.
And now the’ve moved to another country to unnecessarily shatter and destroy more lives, the whole situation is truely horrific; only small men create war!

 

[monarch64]

@Brigid i think you meant “only men create war” not small men.

 

[Avondale]

The strikes targeted Iranian nuclear and military sites and were triggered by Iran's violation of nuclear proliferation obligations as declared by the IAEA.

Israel viewed Iran's nuclear program as an existential threat and aimed to prevent it from developing nuclear weapons.

Not wanting Iran to have nuclear weapons - completely fair. I haven't heard a single country say "yeah, they should have nuclear bombs, let'em have'em". The question is, if this was the main goal, why not achieve it through diplomacy and a new deal?

We have to remember, the 2015 deal was working - while it was still fully in place and all countries were sticking to it. We have no way of knowing whether that would've remained so 10 years down the line, but for the first two Iran was compliant so we have to at the very least assume it's probable they remained compliant.

So what's the reason for abandoning the plans for a new deal? I have my guesses but they all place the blame on the current US administration.

Direct attacks and assassinations stemming from the Gaza war. For one.

This is probably the real reason, I think. This and all the years and decades of conflict before it that have poisoned the water, so to speak, beyond the point of no return. The destruction of Iran's nuclear programme is only part of the motivation that has been conveniently used and presented as the main motivation simply because it sits better in news headlines. But ultimately Israel wants to destabilise Iran, it wants to cripple Iran's military forces, it wants to see the regime fall. It seems that on this we agree on - this would be massively beneficial for Israel.

On the other hand, it's understandable that many US citizens aren't too enthusiastic about their country being dragged into a war they feel has nothing to do with them. After all, the current president did run a campaign heavily focused on peace (and on accusing the opposing candidate of being a warmonger, more or less). Expectations are definitely not being met here.

I also understand your position. I can see that you care deeply about Israel so it's natural to support any action undertaken in Israel's aid.

I also believe the world is a safer place now for everyone

I very much hope you're right but I'm wary. Yemen has already announced they would join with Iran. If others follow this example, things could get really ugly and start spilling beyond the region.

There's also Iran's threat of blocking the Strait of Hormuz. While there's an abundance of logical arguments for why that would be counter-productive even for Iran itself, if it were to actually happen, it would send oil prices skyrocketing. Even without that, oil prices are already climbing. Higher oil prices further stall the European economy and simultaneously boost the Russian one. As a European myself, the war in Ukraine is far more important to me, personally, and the threat of Russian aggression towers over Iran. The prolongation of that conflict is the exact opposite of making Europe safer.

I am also concerned about potential increase in terrorist activity both in the US and Europe. Things had finally settled somewhat, and now they could start again, the probability for which is sadly greater than the closure of the Strait of Hormuz. I don't think any of us would be feeling safer in that scenario.

The only way the world would be a safer place is if this ongoing conflict were to find a swift and resolute end, and I don't see that happening. I mean, when has it ever happened in the Middle East.

 

[Brigid]

@monarch64 I agree only men create war but I said “small men” deliberately as for me it’s about the size of their intellect, knowledge of the world along with emotional intelligence; without the need for power.

I don’t want to upset you but hope you are finding strength after Blanche

 

[OreoRosies86]

I don’t want the US in this war. That does not mean I think highly of Iran. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I think this sentiment in general is why we’ve lost our way so badly as a society. Black and white thinking. There is no nuance, no room for discussion, no conceding that you can have your own convictions and still condemn the injustices happening to those you don’t have anything in common with. Why is war all that human beings can come up with after being given thousands of years of chances to TRULY evolve, beyond making sure everyone has an iPhone in their pocket.

 

[Matata]

Why is war all that human beings can come up with after being given thousands of years of chances to TRULY evolve

Excellent question. My suspicion is that we've evolved as far as we can and unfortunately along the path that focuses on our differences rather than what we share in common. Tribes will be tribes. Perhaps a global existential threat would bring us all together for a period of time but my current level of cynicism makes me doubt we'd sustain that unity.

 

[missy]

I had a conversation with one of my closest friends who is Iranian and whose mother and Father still live in Iran. His family have had people executed and tortured by the Islamic republic and he said many Iranians are actually hoping the Israelis destroy the leadership and make overthrow of the regime possible. He suggested there needed to be more than just destroying nuclear sites but rather help destroy the Basij. It was an eye opening conversation for me because all my USA friends with no connection to Middle East at all are outraged at the military action and destruction of the nuclear facilities

 

[missy]

Going to war with a nuclear Iran is A MILLION TIMES WORSE than going to war with a non nuclear Iran

No one supports everything any president does. But this is an historic mission to bring greater freedom and peace to all of us including Iranians.

I also understand your position. I can see that you care deeply about Israel so it's natural to support any action undertaken in Israel's aid.

Thank you. However I don’t blindly support any regime/government/action. I do support this. I truly believe it was/is the best move for all decent humans who long for peace especially in the Middle East. Israel is the only country in the Middle East where everyone is free. Two million Arabs live there with full rights and will tell you they’re grateful to Israel

 

[missy]

Iran had enriched Uranium to 60%.
5%is needed for civilian energy. 90% for nukes.

Between February and May, they increased their 60%-enriched stockpile by 50%, enough to make several nuclear bombs.
Going from 60-90% takes weeks.

Once Iran hits weapons-grade, it becomes far more difficult to detect what they do with it.
They could assemble a bomb in secret, underground, in Fordow. That's likely why our administration targeted that site.

A nuclear Iran triggers a chain reaction.
Saudi Arabia has already said: "If they get one, we have to get one."
Even many Muslim countries consider Iran a bad actor - not just Israel.
A nuke gives Iran cover for proxy warfare.
With nuclear deterrence, Iran could act more aggressively through Hezbollah, Hamas, and others.

They wouldn't need to use the bomb. Just possessing it changes the game
Iran's regime, the Islamic Republic, is hostile to America.
They chant "Death to America" - earnestly and regularly.


To be fair: America's history of missteps in the region has contributed to that hostility.
But acknowledging mistakes in history doesn't mean ignoring the present threat.
The fact remains, Iran using nukes against us, directly or indirectly is a real threat


If you don't like what he did, ask yourself:
What was the alternative given the situation right before the strike?


This wasn't a simple choice.

It was a calculated risk.
Iran was playing nuclear poker and uncertainty was their weapon.
Our administration removed that uncertainty.

Peace is not made exclusively through diplomacy.
Sometimes, it requires force.

Hopefully this helped you understand, even if you disagree.
Now we wait to see the consequence.

Let's pray the result is peace.
Even if that peace was won through force.


@Matata actually sometimes peace is obtained by bombing. Sad but necessary. If we had not gotten involved in ww2 we’d likely all be speaking German now. Force is unfortunately necessary in many situations where evil is involved

 

[telephone89]

I don't know how anyone can logically come to the conclusion that Israel is attacking other nations for the good of Western nations. YOU CANNOT GET PEACE THROUGH BOMBING!!!!!!
I don't believe for one second this was done for our benefit, but rather for the benefit of certain people and their egos - plus money. Just remember: there is more than one madman with access to nuclear weapons.

“I went out and punched some guy in the face. It was self defence, he may just have punched me too!”
This isn’t self defence. I believe there is only one country in the Middle East with nuclear weapons…funny how much control they have over other nations.

This all just feels like another Iraq. Make up an excuse to bomb some country to hell.

 

[Matata]

All these years, those in power here, said the same thing over and over: “Iran must not be allowed to get nuclear weapons.” Clinton said it. Bush said it. Obama said it. Even Biden repeated it in 2022.

But when Trump actually did something about it, suddenly the outrage machine kicks in.

It appears that attacking Iran wasn't necessary during all those other administrations because the agreement was monitored and upheld. We are here in large part because the current president blew up the agreement because he wasn't the one to achieve it, because he thinks he can do everything much better than anyone else, and because much of what he's done to date is retribution for losing the election -- he's said so many times. Israel has taken advantage of his weaknesses to achieve their goal. Make no mistake, tRump did not act due to altruism or concern for Israel but rather due to his bruised ego and that is what is behind the outrage machine.

Let me be clear, I loathe extremism especially religious extremism. I have to sympathy, empathy, compassion for extremists and I don't and won't shed a tear when they suffer the consequences of their choices.

 

[Matata]

@Matata actually sometimes peace is obtained by bombing. Sad but necessary. If we had not gotten involved in ww2 we’d likely all be speaking German now. Force is unfortunately necessary in many situations where evil is involved

Well, yeah, that's why I called BS on every convo here where the sentiment "violence is never acceptable" appeared.

 

[missy]

Well, yeah, that's why I called BS on every convo here where the sentiment "violence is never acceptable" appeared.

Violence by our military. That is acceptable in certain situations obviously
Not by citizens or non citizens protesting something they don’t like

 

[missy]

It appears that attacking Iran wasn't necessary during all those other administrations because the agreement was monitored and upheld. We are here in large part because the current president blew up the agreement because he wasn't the one to achieve it, because he thinks he can do everything much better than anyone else, and because much of what he's done to date is retribution for losing the election -- he's said so many times. Israel has taken advantage of his weaknesses to achieve their goal. Make no mistake, tRump did not act due to altruism or concern for Israel but rather due to his bruised ego and that is what is behind the outrage machine.

I agree. Nothing altruistic about our current president. Dare I say nothing altruistic about any administration ever?

 

[Matata]

I agree. Nothing altruistic about our current president. Dare I say nothing altruistic about any administration ever?

You can say it but I don't subscribe to the idea. Politics is dirty business but there have been administrations where good has been achieved along with the bad. If we don't make fundamental changes to our elective process, we'll be on the hamster wheel forever.

 

[Matata]

Not by citizens or non citizens protesting something they don’t like

Social change is often achieved through a composite of violence and peaceful means. Women's suffragettes, civil rights movement for example. There is an African proverb that applies "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth."

 

[missy]

Social change is often achieved through a composite of violence and peaceful means. Women's suffragettes, civil rights movement for example. There is an African proverb that applies "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth."

The violent demonstrations that have been happening over the past few years are nothing like the civil rights movement you are referencing. In fact I can argue those demonstrations are trampling my civil rights and liberties
There is a double standard but I don’t blame you for not being aware. If it doesn’t affect you it can be much harder to see and understand

 

[missy]

You can say it but I don't subscribe to the idea. Politics is dirty business but there have been administrations where good has been achieved along with the bad. If we don't make fundamental changes to our elective process, we'll be on the hamster wheel forever.

We can agree to disagree. The past administrations did a lot of damage that can’t be easily fixed. In fact part of the reason we’re in the pickle we’re in now. IMO

 

[Matata]

civil rights and liberties
There is a double standard but I don’t blame you for not being aware. If it doesn’t affect you it can be much harder to see and understand

Our civil rights and liberties are under attack by our own government and each segment of our society is under attack from within and without for a specific reason, Jews because they're Jews, trans people because they're trans, brown people because they're brown, members of each political party because they're members of that party. It's an epic poop show. However for perspective, neither you nor I are being dragged off the streets by armed masked men, shoved into unmarked vehicles and sent who knows where without due process. At least not yet.

 

[missy]

Our civil rights and liberties are under attack by our own government and each segment of our society is under attack from within and without for a specific reason, Jews because they're Jews, trans people because they're trans, brown people because they're brown, members of each political party because they're members of that party. It's an epic poop show. However for perspective, neither you nor I are being dragged off the streets by armed masked men, shoved into unmarked vehicles and sent who knows where without due process. At least not yet.

This reminds me of those who say yes we support Israel but…
Or who answer the statement “black lives matter “. With…Don’t all lives matter? :/

The history of the Jewish people includes periods of persecution, prejudice, and marginalization. This experience provides a unique perspective on the importance of protecting the rights of all minority groups and standing in solidarity with those who are targeted by discrimination. And that’s what our people have always done. Support the civil rights of all

Who I won’t support are those who come here illegally and then proceed to wreak havoc. Come here and don’t cause trouble and violence. Is assimilation a dirty word? I don’t think so. For those who want a better life this is a country where you can make that happen. I welcome all who love this country and want to have a better peaceful life. I don’t support those who have an evil agenda. Who,want control of this country Who have murderous intentions. I fully support deporting those individuals.

Our past administrations deported millions who came here illegally. Where was the outcry and outrage then?