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Is AGS too lenient?

Stephan

Stephan

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 13, 2003
Messages
2,917
Look at this
G-VS1
diamond.
BlueNile says it's 3.14ct G-VS1 and AGS certified.
But the certificate that is scanned is I-VS2 GIA, same weight.
Did they forget to scan the new (AGS) certificate?
That doesn't sound good.
 
I'm sick when thinking at the price difference of this huge rock.

My 1.308 I-VS1 diamond has a GIA J-VS1 certificate, the diamond is gorgeous but is more a J.
And I've paid for I color.

My 1.56ct L-VS1 certified by AGS is only a M, and that's what Brian made me pay (M color) because that's the true color.
 
The measurements are sufficiently off so as to make me wonder if they haven't just mixed up their certificates ....

Also, could you say more about your L/M? I am curious about this!
 
QueenMum|1292168666|2794830 said:
Circe|1292164173|2794807 said:
The measurements are sufficiently off so as to make me wonder if they haven't just mixed up their certificates ....
Click to expand...
The numbers could be for the same stone.

Circe|1292164173|2794807 said:
Also, could you say more about your L/M? I am curious about this!
Click to expand...
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040397620028
It's a beautiful diamond! :love:
Click to expand...

The girdle measurement could be an averaging issue, or one grader measuring at a slightly different point than another ... but the height measurement differs by .02, and on the easiest point to measure on a diamond. It *could* happen, but it just seems unlikely to me: since I know GIA standards and assume AGS is just as stringent, I guess I'm just quicker to assume an error on the part of the anonymous Blue Nile uploader. (Also, if anything, I'd always heard that AGS was more strict than GIA ....)

Your diamond is gorgeous! I meant more the circumstances ... do you mean that BGD disagreed with the grade it received, and lowered the price voluntarily? How very moral of them!
 
Circe,

A 0.2 difference in depth percentage, I saw that before.
The table percentage is also different (1%) but again I think it's common.
If you go to Whiteflash or BGD, just look at the differences between the Sarin and the AGS certificates.

I really think the cutter/owner of this stone wasn't happy with the GIA result, so he sent it to AGS, and bingo!

The 2 AGS diamond over 1ct I own have a too high AGS color grade (the 1.308 and the 1.561).

Brian Gavin did price the stone before the AGS certification because I agreed to buy the diamond before it had a certificate.
'M' color is something Brian normally doesn't include in his Signature collection, he did it for me.
 
The general consensus among the experts here seems to be that AGS is not lenient on color:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-ags-softer-than-gia-in-color-grading.115118/

One of the posts in here notes that it may have been even stricter than GIA during some years. So I'm not sure what's going on, but also remember that you can't always generalize results from a group to individuals. Even if AGS is generally on par with GIA, there will be some AGS-graded stones that GIA would grade higher and some that they would grade lower.
 
easy to find out - contact blue nile and have them send over the AGS report of this "same" stone, and make sure to have them check the girdle inscription for its GIA number ... this could be a mix up but i'm also very curious ! :naughty:
 
jstarfireb|1292224424|2795402 said:
The general consensus among the experts here seems to be that AGS is not lenient on color:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-ags-softer-than-gia-in-color-grading.115118/

One of the posts in here notes that it may have been even stricter than GIA during some years. So I'm not sure what's going on, but also remember that you can't always generalize results from a group to individuals. Even if AGS is generally on par with GIA, there will be some AGS-graded stones that GIA would grade higher and some that they would grade lower.
Click to expand...
Great link that confirms what I'm saying. Did you read the topic?

10 stones total appraised. (9 mine, 1 a friends)

3 are GIA and the appraiser agreed with the color.
7 are AGS and the appraiser only agreed with them once.
The other 6 he thought were 1 grade off (lower.)

There are several consumers on that page having the same experience than me.
Brian Gavin was friendly enough to let me pay for the real color, but in the case of BlueNile, I've paid for I color, not J.
I've learned my lesson well.
 
frankiextah|1292227946|2795425 said:
easy to find out - contact blue nile and have them send over the AGS report of this "same" stone, and make sure to have them check the girdle inscription for its GIA number ... this could be a mix up but i'm also very curious! :naughty:
Click to expand...

In the case of my 1.308ct AGS did forget to mention the laser inscription. How sad.

GIA report
AGS report
 
So what are we saying here? Should we have all big $$$ diamonds graded by AGS "rechecked" by GIA?
 
I see only speculation.

Live long,
 
Even if they were lenient in color I still prefers AGS cut grading. I agree with the previous posters in thinking this is a blue nile wrong cert posting.
 
QueenMum|1292234458|2795437 said:
jstarfireb|1292224424|2795402 said:
The general consensus among the experts here seems to be that AGS is not lenient on color:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-ags-softer-than-gia-in-color-grading.115118/

One of the posts in here notes that it may have been even stricter than GIA during some years. So I'm not sure what's going on, but also remember that you can't always generalize results from a group to individuals. Even if AGS is generally on par with GIA, there will be some AGS-graded stones that GIA would grade higher and some that they would grade lower.
Click to expand...
Great link that confirms what I'm saying. Did you read the topic?

10 stones total appraised. (9 mine, 1 a friends)

3 are GIA and the appraiser agreed with the color.
7 are AGS and the appraiser only agreed with them once.
The other 6 he thought were 1 grade off (lower.)

There are several consumers on that page having the same experience than me.
Brian Gavin was friendly enough to let me pay for the real color, but in the case of BlueNile, I've paid for I color, not J.
I've learned my lesson well.
Click to expand...
This is a question for your appraiser who has actually seen the stones. THEY are the standard you are using for the 'correct' grading in the above described test after all. From my own experience of having submitted a few dozen GIA graded stones to AGS in order to get the AGS cut grade, they are far more synchronized than that on both clarity and color although there is the occasional difference. Neither of these is a very good test and you can value the anecdotes however you wish.

By all means if you are uncomfortable with AGSL grading, talk to your dealer about it and either arrange to have the stone resubmitted to GIA as part of your purchase or simply choose a different stone that's already been graded by GIA. GIA pedigree is, in general, quite a bit easier to find and are usually less expensive after all.
 
Neil,

Buying diamonds is a matter of trust.
When buying my BGD, Brian told me it was a M color, probably VS1.
This diamond is a VVS2 borderline case, and it's very uncommon for me to have difficulties to spot a VS1 inclusion with my loupe.
So this is a nice VS1.
And I paid for M-VS1, even if AGS tells it is a L.

But for buying @bluenile, I'll avoid AGS certification.
And if I want a D-Flawless/IF, it will be a GIA too.
 
QueenMum|1292267155|2795754 said:
Neil,

Buying diamonds is a matter of trust.
When buying my BGD, Brian told me it was a M color, probably VS1.
This diamond is a VVS2 borderline case, and it's very uncommon for me to have difficulties to spot a VS1 inclusion with my loupe.
So this is a nice VS1.
And I paid for M-VS1, even if AGS tells it is a L.

But for buying @bluenile, I'll avoid AGS certification.
And if I want a D-Flawless/IF, it will be a GIA too.
Click to expand...
Stephan,

I agree, and I have no problem at all with putting your trust in Brian. Congratulations on your purchase. I was commenting on the post above that was placing the trust in an unknown appraiser. That doesn't make them wrong by any means, and they have seen the subject stones where I have not, but the discrepancy being observed has not been my experience.
 
Hmm, this thread has me a little worried now...

I just purchased an E, VS1 from BGD. I'm worried now that I'm paying an 'E' premium for a lower coloured stone... :shock:
 
schmick|1292278967|2795909 said:
Hmm, this thread has me a little worried now...

I just purchased an E, VS1 from BGD. I'm worried now that I'm paying an 'E' premium for a lower coloured stone... :shock:
Click to expand...


When you receive your diamond, get it appraised. When my DH bought my princess cut diamond from Blue Nile, it was a GIA certed F color, VS2. We had it appraised by Martin Fuller (one of the best in our area) and he said it was more of an E color. So it can go both ways.
 
It can go both ways but color grading a mounted stone is inherently inaccurate.
 
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