Is a knowledgable customer the salesman's worst enemy??

[Porridge]

Urgh. Now obviously I realise there are many wonderful jewelers out there. I just had an annoying experience today, and there hasn't been a B&M bashing thread in a while, so indulge my venting if you will.

I came across a little antique shop today while I was browsing around town. I had obviously interrupted a conversation between the owner another man in the shop (a friend I presumed, he was lounging in a chair). I had to ask if they were open for business and if I could come in. It was tiny, with just a little glass counter. I asked could I look at the jewelry, and he gestured towards the counter. Then he resumed the conversation with his friend, but in a very obvious "we've been disturbed" kind of way. I spotted a lovely little emerald ring with two OEC's on either side. Now, bit of background, I was nicely dressed because I'm in the office today, nice bag and all. Meaning I looked like a potential customer, not a scruffy bling-gawper. Here's the convo:

Me: That emerald looks lovely, do you mind if I have a closer look?
Owner: (perks up a bit. maybe a sale??) Here you go. It's Colombian.
Me: Oh lovely. Do you mind if I use my loupe? Do you know if there are any treatments, besides the usual oiling I presume?
Owner: (His face says "what kind of crazy person carries a loupe???") No, no treatments at all.
Me: (Alarm bells) Wow, none at all? So it's certed?
Owner: (Face drops. Starting to lose interest at this point.) No. It's antique.
Me: I see...how do you know it's Colombian and that there are no treatments?
Owner: It's been looked at.
Me: By an appraiser?
Owner: (Getting bored). By a professional.
Me: I see... Those are nice diamonds on the side.
Owner:Yes, great cuts, they're modern brilliants.
Me: (They are clearly of the OEC generation.) Oh really? They look like OEC's...
Owner: No, modern brilliants. The ring is from around 1900.
Me: (You mean nearly 20 years before the modern brilliant cut was invented?) Ah, ok...
Owner: (Starts to fidget. Has lost all interest at this stage.)
Me: Do you have any other pieces?
Owner: Yes. (Does not make any move to get said pieces.)
Me: Ok...what do you have?
Owner: Um...some sapphires and rubies. (Again, does not move.)
Me: (Expectant look.)
Owner: ("Please go away and stop asking me hard questions" look.)
Me: Ok, well thank you for your time.
Owner: Kthxbye.

Now, it really was a nice ring, not a bad asking price, and had he had a different attitude I would have loved to have seen his other gems, returned to the shop, told people about the nice little antique place I was in, bought something etc. They CLEARLY were not doing good business, it was a quiet street, no sign of any other customers. But as soon as he thought I had any small bit of knowledge at all, he lost all interest and all but asked me to leave. Gah!!

 

[davi_el_mejor]

All you can do is feel sorry for him. Granted, you probably would have haggled a bit, but you probably would have bought a piece or two from him had his attitude been better.

If you don't mind, I'd like to share a rant about a BM I mean B&M, I had when I wanted to verify that the OMC's I bought off E-Bay we're really diamonds. The sign above the entrance was the store name, and "custom made jewelry." It was middle of the day, his cases were barren.

Walk into the store, owner looks at me, we pass greetings...

Me:I was wondering if you had the time to help me verify that the diamonds I just bought off E-Bay.
Owner: I don't know why people do that.
M: Well, their old mine cut diamonds and you hardly see them in stores anyways, it was the best venue and price I could find.
He waves me closer and I present them to him.
O: They look like diamonds.
M (thinking in my head): Of course they do!!! I want to know they're diamonds.
O: I really wished people wouldn't buy things off the internet. (He looks at the diamonds) These aren't worth much. I hope you didn't pay more than 10-20 for them all.

There were two .20ct OMC's. One was a C1 color and the other I'm guessing about a J/K color. There was also a really chunky .14ct of about J/K color.

O: The color on this one (the C1) is horrible and the cut is bad, you should have bought a new cut diamond.
M: I like the OMC cut, the new cuts aren't what I am looking for.

He ignores the J/K stones completely and fiddles with the C1. Weighs it, it's .20cts like it was sold to me as. He then starts to package them up with a disgusted look on his face. I am shaking, I'm sooo irritated with him. He hands me the stones.

M: Thank you for your time.

I turn away walking out the door.

O: You should really do some research on what a diamond...

By that time I was so infuriated I couldn't hear him any more as I darted out the door.

If he had been nicer to me, I probably would have had him set it for me. His loss.

 

[StonieGrl]

SPit take Diet Dr Pepper Cherry for both BM, I mean B&M (hee Davi) tales.

I hate most B&Ms because they're all 'tude and no expertise or aesthetic.

Some end-of-year we should have The Scopies and award a 'prize' for the most awful B&M encounter.

For the prize, I'll buy one of those Chinese-made fake diamond paperweights, they come in ALL COLORS and CARAT WEIGHTS!!!

 

[Moonstruck]

I am sorry you have all had these bad experiences. I have had a few similar to that over the years, too.

I have found a wonderful B & M jeweler here in southern Ca. He understands my compulsion to purchase loose stones.

Recently I complained that I have some stones that I cannot afford to have mounted due to the cost of gold and my shrinking budget. He now helps me find really nice sterling silver mounts, removes the CZ's or yucky stones and adds my stones so I can enjoy them instead of putting in my gemstone boxes . This was his idea. His setting fee is $15 per stone but on a recent 3 stone ring he only charged $20. Of course, I have had him mount some in gold and have purchased other items in his store but still...I think he is wonderful to work with me in that way. His design work is beautiful too. He is tactful and says "until you can afford the gold" or "until gold comes down", we will collaborate.

What do you guys think? I hope there are other good B & M people out there.

 

[StonieGrl]

What I think is you have found a treasure there! Good going!

 

[kenny]

It depends on the vendor.

Vendors is like WF or GOG are used to knowledgeable customers, and carry the stones with the reports that will satisfy them.

I'd say the vast majority of sellers are used to ignorant customers so they get away with overcharging for stones that are not worth sending to labs.

 

[Nashville]

Hey, they apparently have MORE than enough money! They don't need yours!

 

[Porridge]

Haha Nashville, that must have been it!

Moonstruck, it definitely sounds like you've got a keeper there! Alas, my search continues...

Davi, honestly, the rudeness of some people. Does he think that bashing your purchase is going to make you turn around and say "oh, you're right, silly me, I'll send these back and buy some of yours instead". Gah, just be polite, and you might get some business. It's that easy!

A Scopie award! I love it! Great idea.

Kenny, you are so right. This guy was not interested in working for his money. Some poor sap will pay through the nose for that and won't have any idea what he gets.

 

[kenny]

Kenny, you are so right. This guy was not interested in working for his money. Some poor sap will pay through the nose for that and won't have any idea what he gets.

Surely the customer will be one of those "All that matters is you love it!" people.

I'm torn.

Part of me says tolerate diversity, live and let live and all.
But when people get ripped of overpaying for junk are we to just accept that?

I realize it's against the law to judge others here but . . . Really now!

 

[Porridge]

Kenny, you are so right. This guy was not interested in working for his money. Some poor sap will pay through the nose for that and won't have any idea what he gets.

Surely the customer will be one of those "All that matters is you love it" people.

In that case, they deserve it

 

[Nashville]

Do salespeople get disgruntled if you bring your own loupe? Is this considered in poor taste or something? I always bring a loupe to jewelry stores and will continue to do so, but I've gotten strange looks and exasperation as well. Unless they are using loupe trickery that makes all their jewelry look better I don't get why this is a problem.

Generally after a few blank stares I smile and make my escape. I had someone tell me one that all sapphires are heated/dyed these days, because it makes the color better thus adding to it's value. I was presented a tray of princess stones once when I asked to see step cuts. Mmmmkay.

 

[kenny]

Do salespeople get disgruntled if you bring your own loupe? Is this considered in poor taste or something? I always bring a loupe to jewelry stores and will continue to do so, but I've gotten strange looks and exasperation as well. Unless they are using loupe trickery that makes all their jewelry look better I don't get why this is a problem.

Who cares what they think!
It's YOUR money.

 

[Nashville]

Do salespeople get disgruntled if you bring your own loupe? Is this considered in poor taste or something? I always bring a loupe to jewelry stores and will continue to do so, but I've gotten strange looks and exasperation as well. Unless they are using loupe trickery that makes all their jewelry look better I don't get why this is a problem.

Who cares what they think!
It's YOUR money.

Oh I absolutely don't care what they think, but it does make me wonder if this is somehow frowned upon. Not because I'm going to stop doing it, but because inquiring minds want to know

And if it is a problem, I'd especially like to know WHY?

 

[Arkteia]

I have two vendors here in town who probably will get a restraining order against me. They understood that I was not going to buy from them - so why let me into their stores? Each time I come, they show this rottweiler's snarl...
One of them is an excellent designer but he tried to charge me $ 1500 for two pieces of lapis. When I mentioned lapis being reconstituted, his face became very sad.
The other one, after trying to sell me paraibas, a Muzo emerald ("my appraiser said it was probably from Muzo mines"), and a yellow sapphire, asked if I was buying stones "for collection or for fun". Things were becoming interesting, so I said, "for fun". He showed me a 4-ct very grey-blue Ceylon sapphire (unheated) for $ 17 K! It could be unheated, and could be Ceylon, and there even was a GIA certificate, and the guy allowed me to examine it in a microscope. I saw some silk, but when I asked him for a piece of gauze to clean the stone, the "silk" disappeared. I honestly played the game, negotiated 2K off, and then said that it was too grey, and too light. I think he'd eat me alive.
I can not understand the narrow gap between a polite smile of a well-dressed vendor and his total rudeness once he understands that you're not going to buy the stone. Although in this guy's mind, I just stole 15 K from him.

 

[snowc]

I went into a B&M earlier today. It was quite hilarious... and the last time I step foot into that place...

Me: Do you have any asschers I could look at?
Owner: No, but we have some lovely sapphires, aquamarines and tanzanites.
Me: Asscher is a type of cut, not a type of gemstone.
Owner: (now getting frustrated) I'm not sure. What does it look like?
Me: It's kind of like a square emerald...
Owner: Ohh! I have one right here.. but its called a cushion cut, not an "asscher"
Me: Asschers are not the same as a cushion cut, but thanks anyways...

 

[Harriet]

It depends. There are also jewellers who get excited when they learn that you share their passion.

 

[JewelFreak]

That's true, Harriet. A good experience: sometime in the mid-80s I was in New Orleans for some meetings. We were staying at the Hyatt & I got back to the hotel one aft. before the others & what else would any sensible person do but wander into the jewelry shop? Not a soul in there besides the young salesman. We got to talking & obviously were soulmates, both passionate about gems. Over about an hour he must have pulled every piece of jewelry out of his safe & we went over each one. It was one of the most fun times I remember & I hope that guy has had a wonderful career. I was a poor starting-out kid then, couldn't afford much but did buy lovely big pair of 18 kt hoops that are still my favorite everyday earrings.

--- Laurie

 

[T L]

CD Peacock & Co, a well known and long time jewelery business, had a huge, very saturated pink gem on display, at least 20 carats. It was cut like many machine cut CZ's I've seen and in a radiant cut, it also had the same luster and high fire dispersion of a CZ. The stone was also very heavy for the size, and since I know CZ is a dense stone, that was also a tell tale sign. It looked exactly like "pink ice." They were trying to tell me it was a tourmaline, and that they do not sell synthetic stones. I told them they need to get a more informed and educated buyer. They were not happy with me, but you know, it's really really scary when even a well known jeweler with a good reputation makes mistakes like that.

 

[SereneSolange]

Ugh... so many stories like this. Not just with B&M jewelers, though. I've had that happen with an appraiser.

Brought an old ring in to be appraised. The lady looks up at me and future DH, then looks my future husband up and down, then rolls her eyes. I then pull out the ring, large sapphire in a silver setting. Her eyes light up. She picks it up, turns it in her hands and squints happily at it, no tools just happy squinting.

She: "Is this white gold?"
Me: (Surprised tarnished silver would be called white gold) "No, it's silver."
She: (Reacting as if I'd just said she's holding a live cockroach and literally dropping the ring) "Oh."
Me: (Surprised she threw my ring)
She: "It's glass."
Me: "But you haven't..."
She: "It's just glass in *SILVER*."
Me: "Well, can you just check since we brought it in?"
She: (Rolls her eyes, kicks hubster and me out of the room, rolls to her station. When she comes back she tosses my ring in disgust back at me, repeats that it's nothing but glass, and turns her back.)

Yeah... that didn't go so well. The funny thing was, it wasn't until I said "silver" that she reacted so rudely.

I've also had rude B&M ppl about some of my mother's gold and diamonds. Unfortunately, two antique rings and a bangle were messed up with strong abrasives and one with super glue. We took them in and got answers like, "Gold doesn't dry out like this." "Diamonds always shine (even when covered with superglue?)" "Look at the crack. It's just cheap metal." and the always favorite "It's just glass."

 

[Harriet]

That's true, Harriet. A good experience: sometime in the mid-80s I was in New Orleans for some meetings. We were staying at the Hyatt & I got back to the hotel one aft. before the others & what else would any sensible person do but wander into the jewelry shop? Not a soul in there besides the young salesman. We got to talking & obviously were soulmates, both passionate about gems. Over about an hour he must have pulled every piece of jewelry out of his safe & we went over each one. It was one of the most fun times I remember & I hope that guy has had a wonderful career. I was a poor starting-out kid then, couldn't afford much but did buy lovely big pair of 18 kt hoops that are still my favorite everyday earrings.

--- Laurie

I hope that young man is doing well too!

I go into one of the big houses to admire their gems (I don't ask to look at their jewellery, since I can't afford it). The manager and I had a lovely chat, and he pulled out all sorts of pieces for me to try. When their retrospective book came out, I decided to buy it as a tiny token of my appreciation. He declined to let me pay for it.

 

[mastercutgems]

Only if you are trying to hide something in what you sell or your own intelligence in knowing your product.

I always find the more the client knows the better; I have to talk less as that just usually confuses them more

I have just learned that you should never argue with a lady; and you let the client describe the color as everyone sees things a little different. Color is one of those things like religion and politics best stay away from them in a conversation

I remember the old days when colored gems were listed as eye clean or included and that was it...

Good ole days; less treatments also..

Most respectfully;

 

[StonieGrl]

Hi Dana: Glad to have you back with us!

I had an experience like Harriet did, mine was at The Collector (Bill Larson's Pala International Jewelry and Specimens B&M) in Fallbrook, CA (San Diego County).

It is a beautiful shop. When we walked in we were the only customers. My husband is a geologist and he was casually dressed, with a ponytail, neatly trimmed mustache and beard. We greeted in a polite manner and I looked at each and every piece of the displayed jewels, taking my time and commenting to Bob. The manager came out and asked some relevant questions, had no problem opening up displays for me to examine further or try on, and exhibited no surprise when I got out a loupe. After some conversation, she realized she had a geologist and a gemnut on her hands and she took us back to the "private collection."

It was better than a museum collection of course. Bill Larson had his newest lovelies in perfect display. We looked at all the new items he had just gotten and then we saw some incredible tourmaline specimens from the area, just knocked our socks off.

I bought my birthday present--a hyoouge rhodolite garnet, 18 kt yg full bezel, a couple specimens, some gifts for family, and the book "American Mineral Treasures" which features not only the collection of Bill Larson but we were also tickled to see a friend of ours from our Alaska years had a chapter devoted to his claim on Prince of Wales Island.

None of that wonderful birthday experience would have happened if they had not bee listening to Bob and I and someone went and got the manager. It made my whole birthday.

I highly recommend the book and if you're ever in San Diego County (San Diego Lady?) be sure to go to The Collector. Sandy is the manager.

 

[SereneSolange]

I really like the positive stories. There are good people and experiences out there. Sadly, those times a seller burns one really stand out.

Last (fussy) one to get off my chest:

My brother got my mother a 1+ct emerald,
I got a rose gold setting for it.
I would have set it myself, as the prongs were prenotched, but the stone was just a tad too large.
We took it to a jeweler to set. When we came back later that week, the emerald was in a sandwich bag, the prongs were half their original length, and the ring was set with a green piece of glass the man assured us was also a real emerald. He would not change it and we could not get a refund.
Fast forward a month or so. My husband and I find an amazing little jeweler. Their shop is quaint and the jewelry on display quite impressive. They rebuild the prongs so the ring accomodates the larger stone, and give us the fake emerald in a sandwich bag, in case we have any use for it in future. They were sweet, open and thoughtful. I even got a great compliment on my unusual wedding band when i reached over the counter for the ring. There should be more jewelers around whose businesses exist because they love their craft.

I feel better now.

 

[vbnet]

I really like the positive stories. There are good people and experiences out there. Sadly, those times a seller burns one really stand out.

Last (fussy) one to get off my chest:

My brother got my mother a 1+ct emerald,
I got a rose gold setting for it.
I would have set it myself, as the prongs were prenotched, but the stone was just a tad too large.
We took it to a jeweler to set. When we came back later that week, the emerald was in a sandwich bag, the prongs were half their original length, and the ring was set with a green piece of glass the man assured us was also a real emerald. He would not change it and we could not get a refund.


Holy cr_ _! Talk about outrageous! So glad you found the 2nd jeweler!

 

[Aoife]

A knowledgable customer should be a salesman's best friend if the salesman knows his stuff and is honest about what he doesn't know. I've had some really eye-opening experiences recently with B&M stores, one of which is supposedly one of the top stores in the city. From some of the responses we've gotten to our questions it's pretty obvious that many customers walk in to a jewelry store and spend a lot of money without knowing anything at all about what they are buying. And that's the way quite a few jewelry stores here like it.

 

[T L]

Well, anyone should just go to Tiff&Co, and ask them for a lab report on a sapphire, and see what happens. That's one company I have very little respect for, but they've been in the biz for a long time, and have a reputation to maintain so they can charge a fortune. However, they do sell treated gems without proper disclosure (I'm sorry, but a booklet on treatment doesn't suffice for me), and they refuse to send their colored gems to the appropriate labs. Therefore, you don't know what you are buying, and the prices are significantly hiked up. Their whole shpeel is their over inflated name, and their hype. They expect you to "trust" them to sell you something of quality, but is it really? While trust is important, verification is also just as important.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

I find it refreshing when a client is educated, especially when in Emeralds or Diamonds. It's like we share a hobby that we can chat about... and chances are they'll have a lot more appreciation for the finer quality gems.


--Joshua

 

[ruffysdad]

Only if you're selling junk is a knowledgable customer your enemy. If, on the other hand, you sell quality and value, a knowledgable customer is the best customer in the world. The salespeople that go looking for suckers may get a one time shot at a sale (hopefully it will blow up in their faces before it's finished) and never get a following of loyal customers. In the real world I sell auto parts and I've developed a lot of customers that come in and ask for me by name. That's because I care about their problems and try to offer the best, not just the cheapest and easiest, products and advice that will solve them. There's a good reason why I can consistanly lead the district in sales. Customers learn and also remember the clowns that sold them a bill of goods. But the knowledgable ones reward the good salespeople with loyalty and a better paycheck. Huxter's never seem to figure out who really writes their paycheck. Sorry for the rant but those guys are a black eye on the good salespeople in the world .

Pete

 

[marcy]

Ugh... so many stories like this. Not just with B&M jewelers, though. I've had that happen with an appraiser.

Brought an old ring in to be appraised. The lady looks up at me and future DH, then looks my future husband up and down, then rolls her eyes. I then pull out the ring, large sapphire in a silver setting. Her eyes light up. She picks it up, turns it in her hands and squints happily at it, no tools just happy squinting.

She: "Is this white gold?"
Me: (Surprised tarnished silver would be called white gold) "No, it's silver."
She: (Reacting as if I'd just said she's holding a live cockroach and literally dropping the ring) "Oh."
Me: (Surprised she threw my ring)
She: "It's glass."
Me: "But you haven't..."
She: "It's just glass in *SILVER*."
Me: "Well, can you just check since we brought it in?"
She: (Rolls her eyes, kicks hubster and me out of the room, rolls to her station. When she comes back she tosses my ring in disgust back at me, repeats that it's nothing but glass, and turns her back.)

Yeah... that didn't go so well. The funny thing was, it wasn't until I said "silver" that she reacted so rudely.

I've also had rude B&M ppl about some of my mother's gold and diamonds. Unfortunately, two antique rings and a bangle were messed up with strong abrasives and one with super glue. We took them in and got answers like, "Gold doesn't dry out like this." "Diamonds always shine (even when covered with superglue?)" "Look at the crack. It's just cheap metal." and the always favorite "It's just glass."

-
This reminds me of my exchange about a heart shaped diamond not being well cut - they kept saying it was a heart cut, I kept saying the shape is a heart, can you get me one that has a better cut? After 5 minutes of repeating the same thing over and over - I moved along.

These stories are GREAT!

 

[T L]

I find it refreshing when a client is educated, especially when in Emeralds or Diamonds. It's like we share a hobby that we can chat about... and chances are they'll have a lot more appreciation for the finer quality gems.


--Joshua

Likewise, I find it refreshing and RARE when a dealer knows their stuff. So many "pretend" to know their stuff, or just because they know diamonds and the four C's, they think they know everything there is to know about gemology. It's pretty pathetic and disturbing. If you go to a car dealer, don't you expect them to know the product? Why should it be any different for another expensive product, like a gem or jewelry?

Many of these dealers sell on "romanticism" and the "diamond is forever" attitude. Sorry, that's enough to get some foolish people to part with their money, but not me. I guess it works for the most part, and that's just sad.