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Initial Impression on this stone?

G

GeologyRocks

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
11
I'm not smart on diamonds but have done what research I can. I have my own thoughts on this stone based on said research, but understanding that my knowledge is in it's infancy I wanted to turn here and ask for more opinions. This stone would be going in a ring. Size and price are top concerns, but buyer also doesn't want a very poorly performing stone. They're pretty adamant about 1.9-2 carat but also want to stay at around 17-19 in price.

I haven't not seen this rock in person. Just helping a friend research.

Shape: Round Brilliant
Measurements: 8.15 x 8.23 x 4.93 mm
Weight: 2.0
Clarity VVS2
Cut: Very Good
Color: H
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Good
Fluorescence: None

1z1qe.jpg
 
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Karl_K said:
It is not well cut at all.
It will have color entrapment and face up with more color for its grade.
Flat crown will limit fire and scintillation.
Click to expand...

Thank you kindly for your input. Understanding it's not perfect and has limitations, and with the limited information here, at what price point would you start to consider the above stone a good value?


valeria101 said:
Then, why VVS !

This is about as much as I understand about the cut of this thing, by the numbers - WWW
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Not sure - this is just what I've been sent by my friend who was asking questions. My guess is he is valuing clarity highly in regards to performance while either not understanding or valuing the importance of cut and proportion.
 
What is the color grade?
You can use the diamond search above to find comps to check the price.
 
ctd.

It is customary on this forum to give options ... & these are two I am finding interesting now:

I / VS2 - WWW

H / VS1- WWW

___

H is a sensible choice, unlike VVS ... I imagine there must have been some missunderstanding about what merely 'VS' clarity entails ...

2c
 
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95n5ma.jpg


I may recommend this one to him - seems to score much better. The HCA has it under 1.0.

Thoughts?
 
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The one with the 57% table seems 'safer' - the numbers are close to what various makers chose to brand etc.


The other (55% table) is subtly unusual - with a relatively high & steep crown, which reminds me of OEC proportions, which details make me curious to see an ASET shot of this diamond.

2c
 
do you guys think this would be a nice stone to purchase


upload_2017-12-18_12-39-12.png
 
jdao917 said:


hi what do you guys think about this?
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not bad, would need images to determine if it should be pursued. The crown is slightly high but it could still be a nice stone.

GeologyRocks said:
95n5ma.jpg


I may recommend this one to him - seems to score much better. The HCA has it under 1.0.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

No, the crown is way too high for one and secondly, you want a XXX stone, all Excellent on Cut, Polish and Symetry.

Additionally, an HCA score under 2 merits further review. A lower score of .9 is not better than a score of 1.9.

what about this? would need it inspected to make sure the fluoro is not causing a milkiness or any haziness.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vvs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-3883444
 
Being in the trade now that specific vendors are starting to be mentioned I am required to mostly bow out by the forum rules.
The prosumers here are awesome and will be able to help you further!
Best of luck with your search!!!!!!
 
Karl_K said:
Being in the trade now that specific vendors are starting to be mentioned I am required to mostly bow out by the forum rules.
The prosumers here are awesome and will be able to help you further!
Best of luck with your search!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Can we get moderators to clean up the vendor specific talk? I very much appreciate your insight. I do realize that high-crown is less desirable for rings, but what would be considered the maximum? Having to find a 2ct stone for under 20k there will have to be compromises. Where should those compromises be?
 
GeologyRocks said:
I do realize that high-crown is less desirable for rings, but what would be considered the maximum?
Click to expand...

The point is whether the pavilion angle works with the high crown (& the respective angle) - the HCA scores are for this 'match'.
 
GeologyRocks said:
... to find a 2ct stone for under 20k there will have to be compromises. Where should those compromises be?
Click to expand...

H / VS is hardly a compromise, IHMO ... You can have these grades, so no compromize is necessary.

_

I did look for the largest (by weight & diameter) RBC for $20.5K - and no 2.5cts came up with reasonable grades & numbers ... Less than half carat more, I am not sure it is worth moving away from H-I/VS.

2c
 
valeria101 said:
The point is whether the pavilion angle works with the high crown (& the respective angle) - the HCA scores are for this 'match'.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for your help so far. So if HCA says excellent on scintillation, fire, and light return t even with the very high crown...It's just a less common cut but will still perform well?
 
.
Yes.
 
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In theory, the stone should be a relatively 'flashy' diamond - that is to say, look somewhat brighter in direct light than most, with a tradeoff: it may look slightly less bright in shade (e.g. when looked at closely, with the viewer sitting between The light source & the stone). However ... I'd say that the differences possible among diamonds with HCA <2 are subtle ... (as far as I know - I sure haven't had an array of them infront).

What I mean by 'slight' & 'relatively' ... - that such details would be visible comparing diamonds of substantially different proportions witin the HCA <2 range. It would be nice to have the opportunity, for sure ! I would not try to guess which you might like better - these are flavours of 'Finest'.

__
pt. I am drawn to distinctive cuts ... & to this diamond because it is slightly unusual.
 
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This should help you.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0 (up to 35.5 crown angle can sometimes work with a 40.6 pav angle)

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0 if the crown angle is close to 34)

Stay in that range and you likely will be safe in finding one of the better GIA Excellent cut stones. Excellent cut is a very broad category, unfortunately, so you really have to narrow them down to get a really good one.
 
GeologyRocks said:
Can we get moderators to clean up the vendor specific talk? I very much appreciate your insight. I do realize that high-crown is less desirable for rings, but what would be considered the maximum? Having to find a 2ct stone for under 20k there will have to be compromises. Where should those compromises be?
Click to expand...
Its not the high crown that is the problem, its the super shallow 39.8 pavilion that makes it suitable for ear rings and pendants and not rings.
Vendors not discussing other vendors stones is a good thing. It prevents fights and arguments that over shadow the consumers helpers.
PS is a consumer helping consumer forum with trade experts as advisors/teachers.
The experienced and learned consumers can recommend specific stones which I can not do on the forum.
I started out as a consumer on PS and fully support the rules 100%.
 
Karl_K said:
Its not the high crown that is the problem, its the super shallow 39.8 pavilion that makes it suitable for ear rings and pendants and not rings.
Vendors not discussing other vendors stones is a good thing. It prevents fights and arguments that over shadow the consumers helpers.
PS is a consumer helping consumer forum with trade experts as advisors/teachers.
The experienced and learned consumers can recommend specific stones which I can not do on the forum.
I started out as a consumer on PS and fully support the rules 100%.
Click to expand...

Can you summarize why a lower pavilion angle would be less desirable for a ring even if the fire/light/scint are categorized as excellent?
 
GeologyRocks said:
Can you summarize why a lower pavilion angle would be less desirable for a ring even if the fire/light/scint are categorized as excellent?
Click to expand...
When viewing a diamond some of the light is blocked by your head. This is reflected by the diamond.
This forms the arrow image you see in pictures when the pavilion mains are blocked from light, they are drawing light from the camera lens in photos and your head and face in person.
Once you get further away than you can clearly focus on the arrows if they are still dark it just makes the diamond look dark.
So what you want is darkish arrows up close, this provides pleasant patterns and contrast but at a distance they need to draw light from around your head and go bright so it looks brighter.
With overly shallow pavilions they will stay dark to far away for ring use.
Ear rings and pendants are viewed at greater distances so it is less of an issue.
 
Karl_K said:
When viewing a diamond some of the light is blocked by your head. This is reflected by the diamond.
This forms the arrow image you see in pictures when the pavilion mains are blocked from light, they are drawing light from the camera lens in photos and your head and face in person.
Once you get further away than you can clearly focus on the arrows if they are still dark it just makes the diamond look dark.
So what you want is darkish arrows up close, this provides pleasant patterns and contrast but at a distance they need to draw light from around your head and go bright so it looks brighter.
With overly shallow pavilions they will stay dark to far away for ring use.
Ear rings and pendants are viewed at greater distances so it is less of an issue.
Click to expand...

Makes sense - thank you for the explanation. So you would avoid that stone with the higher crown and lower pavilion even with the HCA light/scint/fire as excellent? How noticeable do you reckon the difference with that pavilion angle of 39.8 versus something more traditional like 40.6?
 
There is a cliff where the distance increases a lot just under 40.5(~40.45) with gia averaging and rounding 40.6 is usually safe.
With precision cutting and you have the actual angles where none of then drop to far under 40.5 can be ok.
There are a few other exceptions or ways they can be cut to migrate it but for general use the above is good.
The difference is noticeable.
It is one of those things that you may not register it but once you notice it you can't unsee it and will see it a lot.
39.8 would be really noticeable.
 
Karl_K said:
There is a cliff where the distance increases a lot just under 40.5(~40.45) with gia averaging and rounding 40.6 is usually safe.
With precision cutting and you have the actual angles where none of then drop to far under 40.5 can be ok.
There are a few other exceptions or ways they can be cut to migrate it but for general use the above is good.
The difference is noticeable.
It is one of those things that you may not register it but once you notice it you can't unsee it and will see it a lot.
39.8 would be really noticeable.
Click to expand...

Given the obstruction issues you mentioned, do you otherwise agree with the HCA ratings of light/scint/fire of excellent?
 
Thank you for your excellent technical comments, @Karl_K :)
 
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