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In the rush to return to normal, consider which parts of normal are worth rushing back to....

Matata

Ideal_Rock
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from a FB meme, quote from Dave Hollis.

I've been wondering what happens after the pandemic. Will we, as a society, be sustainably more thoughtful and compassionate. Will we finally choose to be consistent good stewards of the earth. Will we demand changes to our health care system to fix the tragic flaws shown during the pandemic. Will we remember the heroes in health care, medicine, public safety, food services et al who worked at personal peril to keep us safe and to keep basic services and supplies available -- will we never take them for granted and will we compensate them adequately for their vital contributions. Will we demand changes to our federal and state systems of government to fix the tragic flaws shown during the pandemic. Or, will we at some point in the post-pandemic future, return to business and being as usual.
 

alittlelight

Shiny_Rock
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Jul 24, 2016
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296
Thanks for posting this. I have been wondering this same thing. It is so bittersweet to see the evidence of less activity helping the environment. I am afraid people were just rush back into their do-more, spend-more ways, and that we will be encouraged to do so “for the economy.” I would love to see a thoughtful overhaul of our safety nets in this country for all people. I also wonder how long people will be afraid.
 

arkieb1

Ideal_Rock
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If the hoarding is anything to go by, no, lots of people will NEVER be more sustainably thoughtful and compassionate.

I think everyone globally will re-evaluate their health systems.

All governments should evaluate what they could do better after this is over.

It is going to take a 6 to 12 months after this medical crisis for things to regain any type of "normal". It will be far far worse than the GFC so it will take some time for businesses and their economies to recover.
 

telephone89

Ideal_Rock
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No.

(I'm a pessimist I guess)

People will quickly forget the grocery workers who literally risked their life to provide essentials, and go back to voting down minimum wage increases.

People will quickly forget the nurses who lived in their garages, away from their family for months on end to keep them safe, when their appointment runs long.

People will quickly forget the teachers, laid off on EI, who supported their children for the past 10 years when their own stint of homeschooling is over. Their ask for wage increases and more union protections will be shot down, because they go back to being as in-valued.

I hope in Canada we fare a bit better, but I'm also doubtful here. People only care now because THEIR life is possibly at risk. What happens when statusquo returns?
 

Daisys and Diamonds

Ideal_Rock
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Tax
and i will just have to lump it and not complain - for the rest of my working life

Not sure if that quite answers the OP's question

i was talking to the middle aged lady behind the screen today at the supermarket
I said to her i hoped her job would get a lot more respect going forward

she said not if rescent transactions over the last couple of days were an indication

all they were out of was handsanitizer and today after about a week they got flour in
flour - all they have really been out of and people have still been complaining
Their flour orders are being sent to the store's bigger brother stores in town

Tourism is going to change in the foreseeable future
Who wants to get on a cruise ship now
and saddly i think xenophobia is going to be riff and backpackers etc at the budget end of the market will not be welcomed - even if they would be able to afford the price of a plane ticket

My county needs to get back to manufacturing and embrace our ag and hort sector and be a lot less reliant on tourism
 

Daisys and Diamonds

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Maybe - and i read an article from China this happened - more men (and ladies too) will leaen to enjoy cooking for their families
 

kipari

Ideal_Rock
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i hope we take and amplify anything good, silver linings, etc. but i am so cynical...i think we'll just go back to normal with a vengeance.
I have the same feeling as well :(

I appreciate the time with my children - we're swamped with homeschooling, but they play really really well together. It's always been like that, but it makes things easier now.


Disclaimer : this doesn't mean there's no petty fighting over toys in my house! :lol::lol:
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I do think things will have to change.

Will we demand changes to our health care system to fix the tragic flaws shown during the pandemic.
The Covid 19 Pandemic is revealing incredible weaknesses in many of (all?) our healthcare systems. Though (and I can only speak of the USA's healthcare system with any experience) we knew many of the weaknesses existed before but this just brings them front and center and hopefully people in charge nd people we elect will make positive changes. Good healthcare is not a privilege. It is a right. And must be treated as such always.

There has to be less partisan politics and more common sense moving forward if we are to continue existing.

Less hugging
And as for hugging (and again I can only speak from my perspective) there will be even more hugging than ever before. At least from me. I think we will take our loved ones less for granted and value the human connection even more. I remember after 9/11 my perspective about things changed and many of those changes remain with me.

Will we remember the heroes in health care, medicine, public safety, food services et al who worked at personal peril to keep us safe and to keep basic services and supplies available -- will we never take them for granted and will we compensate them adequately for their vital contributions.
I sure hope so. I know I will never forget the sacrifice our brave front line people made to help everyone during this pandemic. But I never took anyone for granted before this so maybe it is just wishful thinking on my part but I do think people will be more appreciative. As for compensation being more appropriate and fair I cannot say as we might come out of this in a depression and then all bets off for a while as the economy struggles to recover. I would love to see the brave "soldiers" of this war compensated fairly.

Will we demand changes to our federal and state systems of government to fix the tragic flaws shown during the pandemic.
It is my fervent hope that yes this will bring about changes to healthcare and the government. IDK how long these changes will take but if we hope to survive we must make changes for the better. People knew (in our government, in medical research etc) we were going to be experiencing a pandemic sometime in the near future. We didn't know exactly when but yes we knew it was coming. Yet still we are woefully short of supplies. There is *no* excuse for this. None whatsoever. As I wrote in another post somewhere on PS there is blood on their (our government's) hands. Again I am only speaking about the USA but I suspect this is true for many others countries. :(

Will we, as a society, be sustainably more thoughtful and compassionate. Will we finally choose to be consistent good stewards of the earth
I hope so. As a family we have always tired to be all of the above and my dh chose his career with the environment in mind. Working for the EPA as well. I have hope in the younger generation because it will be up to them to make this world a kinder more gentle and compassionate place to be. To work towards helping the environment for a better and brighter future for all generations to come.


There will be good to come from this tragedy. Will it have made this loss of life worthwhile? I could never say that because a life is a life. But at least let some good come from this. Hope for a better tomorrow for our children and for their children and for all the future generations.

Let this be the wake up call those in power needed and the wake up call the people needed to make the changes necessary with their voting power. We all have to work towards making changes here because it is too great for any one person or group to do alone.

#workingtogether
#bettertomorrow
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
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12,177
I think folks will rush headlong back to their lives as soon as they are able. So much pent up frustration and spending deprivation will have those that have still received a paycheck spending like sailors. Restaurants, movies, and malls will be overwhelmed with those finally cut free.

There are, however, underlying issues that should surge to the surface from this experience. Covid could reappear without a vaccine or antiviral drugs that will fight it. Another virus could come along too. Without changes to the preparation and medical side of this, we will be doomed to repeat this experience. However, sad to say, that will be overlooked in the mad dash to resume daily life.

People will remember long term only in the way that it affected them personally. No job or income? Loss of loved ones? Hoarding of toliet paper? That memory varies from person to person and from the major to the trivial it will affect how far they will be willing to go to help make changes.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Covid could reappear without a vaccine or antiviral drugs that will fight it. Another virus could come along too
Without a doubt. This will happen. It is our new "normal" and we must be prepared or we will not survive the future.

Vaccine anticipated within 18 months to 2 years I believe.

 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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"Normal" will not exist for a lot of people. Many will not have a job to return to and they will have a hard time finding work because so many will be in the same boat. A good many will be holding funerals and memorials for loved ones who passed away that were not able to be memorialized when the virus was actively spreading. Some will find that they were better able to educate their children at home and will not be putting them back in school. The list goes on.

There is just so much that will change for so many, yes a good percentage will return to life as usual and will probably not have learned a whole lot. For the rest of us though we will be adjusting to changes that were not part of "the plan". A good many of us will still be trying to survive long after this is over.
 

missy

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"Normal" will not exist for a lot of people. Many will not have a job to return to and they will have a hard time finding work because so many will be in the same boat. A good many will be holding funerals and memorials for loved ones who passed away that were not able to be memorialized when the virus was actively spreading. Some will find that they were better able to educate their children at home and will not be putting them back in school. The list goes on.

There is just so much that will change for so many, yes a good percentage will return to life as usual and will probably not have learned a whole lot. For the rest of us though we will be adjusting to changes that were not part of "the plan". A good many of us will still be trying to survive long after this is over.
That’s right. It will be, for most of us, the new “normal “
And as long as we’re here with our loved ones and breathing I’ll take it. And be grateful for it no matter the hardships ahead. And yes there will be many hardships ahead.

:/
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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That’s right. It will be, for most of us, the new “normal “
And as long as we’re here with our loved ones and breathing I’ll take it. And be grateful for it no matter the hardships ahead. And yes there will be many hardships ahead.

:/
Maybe I am selfish, I really hope to not only be alive and healthy as well as the rest of my family and friends but I hope my husband still has a job and we don't lose our house. Yes health is important but so is financial stability and that is a very real concern for working class Americans. So for us it is equally as important because many people who lose their job or their housing will not be able to get it back.
 

bludiva

Ideal_Rock
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Maybe I am selfish, I really hope to not only be alive and healthy as well as the rest of my family and friends but I hope my husband still has a job and we don't lose our house. Yes health is important but so is financial stability and that is a very real concern for working class Americans. So for us it is equally as important because many people who lose their job or their housing will not be able to get it back.
It's frustrating to know some of the impact/fallout could have been blunted with good leadership. And we see bad leaders around the world rushing to take advantage of the situation, which is reprehensible.

I really really hope this is a wakeup call to Americans and others to elect boring, effective, competent government leaders and stop treating politics like team sports, religion, or reality tv.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Maybe I am selfish, I really hope to not only be alive and healthy as well as the rest of my family and friends but I hope my husband still has a job and we don't lose our house. Yes health is important but so is financial stability and that is a very real concern for working class Americans. So for us it is equally as important because many people who lose their job or their housing will not be able to get it back.
You’re not selfish for feeling this way. But I have a different perspective. Of course I’m older and my loved ones are all older. So we bring to the table our specific characteristics and concerns. We vary. There’s no right or wrong. Just what makes sense for you and your family. I look at it from my unique perspective and all of us have one.

I know if we get through this we will sort the rest of it out. One day at a time. But if we or our loved ones die then little else matters. Money won’t bring anyone back. :(

Stay well Stephanie.
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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I do appreciate your perspective @missy and I do get that a lot of your friends and loved ones are older and so money is of lesser importance.

To that end here is the possibilities for us. My husband who is diabetic, overweight, high blood pressure gets sick and loses his job or (G forbid) dies. Now I am out of work so there is no income at all. We have two kids and many pets but I have no income to support them, no parents to turn to, nothing to fall back on and I am alone.

Somehow I have to find housing, re-home all of my pets because I have no way to pay for their care and I have to find a job to support my kids who have just lost a parent. It's not about the money for me because money trumps health but we need it to survive.

If my husband dies "little else matters" is not at all true, I still have to keep going for myself, my kids and the pets that depend on us. If it's one of the kids (I don't even want to think about this) then again we still have to keep going, no choice, life does not just stop.

I'm not posting to be argumentative or hostile at all but just to share a perspective from the other side. Every time I see a post about "health is the only thing that matters now" I have to shake my head because for many of us that is just not reality. At night I pray for the continued health of my family but also for the continued income from DH working because for us at least they are equally important.

I really wish the best of health for everyone, I hope you and all of your loved ones are safe at the end of this, those are my wishes for all of the PS community.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Thank you so much @StephanieLynn and I do get your point of view.
I am sending you and your family good wishes and gentle ((hugs)).
Praying the whole PS family and our loved ones will all be OK.
 

stracci2000

Ideal_Rock
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I try to stay away from all these CV threads, lest my head explode.
But I will chime in on what @StephanieLynn is commenting on. The economic fallout will be bad.
I simply cannot afford to catch this virus. In our state the test is free.
But all the other related medical costs and hospital stay and follow up appointments will seriously hurt me financially. I have healthcare coverage, but it covers less and less every year. Who can say how many thousands of dollars it would cost me out of pocket. A yearly wellness visit is not even covered under my policy, I have to pay out of pocket.
And yet my employer still expects us to go to work because we are considered "essential services" . I work for a food broker and must call on 4-6 grocery stores everyday. And since grocery stores are open, everyone is still flocking there.
If I get through this unscathed it will be a miracle.
 

missy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I try to stay away from all these CV threads, lest my head explode.
But I will chime in on what @StephanieLynn is commenting on. The economic fallout will be bad.
I simply cannot afford to catch this virus. In our state the test is free.
But all the other related medical costs and hospital stay and follow up appointments will seriously hurt me financially. I have healthcare coverage, but it covers less and less every year. Who can say how many thousands of dollars it would cost me out of pocket. A yearly wellness visit is not even covered under my policy, I have to pay out of pocket.
And yet my employer still expects us to go to work because we are considered "essential services" . I work for a food broker and must call on 4-6 grocery stores everyday. And since grocery stores are open, everyone is still flocking there.
If I get through this unscathed it will be a miracle.
I am so sorry @stracci2000 that sucks. :cry2:
You are putting yourself at risk every single day and you don't even have adequate health insurance. :blackeye:
I hope you get through this healthy and intact.
(((Hugs))).
 

diamondringlover

Ideal_Rock
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after this NOTHING will ever be the same, I have taken things for granted with out realizing I did. My stress level is always high...but with this crap I feel like I am jumping out of my skin....
 

Elizabeth35

Shiny_Rock
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From my perspective--people will change and behave differently. But only for awhile.
After 9/11 most people were kinder and showed more gratitude. Things changed. But time marched on and we healed.
Same thing for the global financial meltdown in 2009. I remember the fear of not knowing if things would ever improve or become 'normal'. They did, but it took time.
And unfortunately we have short memories because after a few years we were back to our high-spending, wasteful ways.In the US returned to buying homes with basically 0% down payment.

So while this will certainly be a watershed, generation defining event, within a few years it will be in the rearview mirror for most people.

But I sincerely hope it will cause change---in healthcare and in how we treat our planet, At the very least, change in our respective governments disaster preparedness for pandemics.
 

YadaYadaYada

Ideal_Rock
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I agree about healthcare, it needs a complete overhaul and this pandemic will make that so glaringly obvious it probably will not be able to be ignored any longer.
 

GliderPoss

Ideal_Rock
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I think things will eventually return to "normal" as humans tend to have a shocking ability to forget and move on quickly however I hope we take important lessons from this such as:
  • Enjoy more time with family & loved ones
  • Reduce your debt and increase savings for a rainy day
  • Value & respect important essential workers
  • Your health IS important - prioritise that!
  • We could WFH more = less cars on the road, more environmentally friendly
  • Be grateful for every day, every blessing
 

luv2sparkle

Ideal_Rock
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I hope that some things change. I hope more people save more money for emergency situations. I know for some, that will not be possible, but I hope for many more they will be able to get back on their feet and begin to save.

I hope it changes our perspective on what we really need and what we don't.

I expect not everything we hope for will happen. I love less cars on the road, I love that people are friendlier in general. I have seen way more cranky elders, which I suspect has to do with fear. My husband had an old lady yell at him in Aldi, and he was over 6 feet away from her.

I hope that our health system can be better prepared after this. More protective gear, more ventilators and a plan in place to have industry step up and fill gaps. We don't have time to wait and I think this will happen again.
 

elizat

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I think folks will rush headlong back to their lives as soon as they are able. So much pent up frustration and spending deprivation will have those that have still received a paycheck spending like sailors. Restaurants, movies, and malls will be overwhelmed with those finally cut free.

There are, however, underlying issues that should surge to the surface from this experience. Covid could reappear without a vaccine or antiviral drugs that will fight it. Another virus could come along too. Without changes to the preparation and medical side of this, we will be doomed to repeat this experience. However, sad to say, that will be overlooked in the mad dash to resume daily life.

People will remember long term only in the way that it affected them personally. No job or income? Loss of loved ones? Hoarding of toliet paper? That memory varies from person to person and from the major to the trivial it will affect how far they will be willing to go to help make changes.
I think much the same. I think people that lost jobs in the service or hospitality industries will be looking to work as much as they can and get a new job or return after, to make up for the loss. If you can't work at home remotely in a desk job and aren't an essential trade, etc., this is hard. I think you will see restaurants, bars, etc., packed. It may even help the death of the American mall. I think people want to do things they can't, so because they can't go now, it makes it desirable.

I also think that corporate America is going to push for everyone to work harder and more, after this, to make up for hopefully, only 2-4 months of big interruption. The goal is going to be to erase the losses and prop up the economy. I can't say it's wrong, but I don't think it's going to result in a change in attitude in America at least, of more balance, more focus on family, vacation, etc.

I can say that we are lucky. We are both working from home and as a lawyer, I work for a very stable firm, with cases still coming in, we aren't hiring now, but I can tell you we will after this is past us. Why? Because we do civil defense work. All the lawsuits that will come in about healthcare workers, nursing home residents, or people at the grocery store being exposed to this virus because of perceived negligence will end up inn lawsuits and claims. It's cynical, but it will. I can already say that the nursing home exposure down in South Florida where the facility appears to have not followed guidelines to protect residents will end up in multiple lawsuits. Our firm defends hospitals, doctors, nursing homes, nurses, grocery stores, etc. I think we will be busier than ever. It happens after every hurricane as welll, because we also do first party property defense. I don't do that work, but after every storm, those lawyers get slammed.
 

elizat

Brilliant_Rock
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Maybe - and i read an article from China this happened - more men (and ladies too) will leaen to enjoy cooking for their families
That could be good. I used to cook more, but really kind of ran out of time. I don't get home until almost 8 p.m. usually.
 

Gussie

Ideal_Rock
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I do appreciate your perspective @missy and I do get that a lot of your friends and loved ones are older and so money is of lesser importance.

To that end here is the possibilities for us. My husband who is diabetic, overweight, high blood pressure gets sick and loses his job or (G forbid) dies. Now I am out of work so there is no income at all. We have two kids and many pets but I have no income to support them, no parents to turn to, nothing to fall back on and I am alone.

Somehow I have to find housing, re-home all of my pets because I have no way to pay for their care and I have to find a job to support my kids who have just lost a parent. It's not about the money for me because money trumps health but we need it to survive.

If my husband dies "little else matters" is not at all true, I still have to keep going for myself, my kids and the pets that depend on us. If it's one of the kids (I don't even want to think about this) then again we still have to keep going, no choice, life does not just stop.

I'm not posting to be argumentative or hostile at all but just to share a perspective from the other side. Every time I see a post about "health is the only thing that matters now" I have to shake my head because for many of us that is just not reality. At night I pray for the continued health of my family but also for the continued income from DH working because for us at least they are equally important.

I really wish the best of health for everyone, I hope you and all of your loved ones are safe at the end of this, those are my wishes for all of the PS community.
I am so sorry @StephanieLynn. Sending prayers for you and your family. I understand the devastation financial problems can cause. Try not to worry; one day at a time. Big virtual hugs to you.
 
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