IMO - Cut is the LEAST important thing...

[Rank Amateur]

To the drop-shipper a good diamond is a sold diamond.

 

[yahui]

Hello,

Last month, I was in the market for an engagement diamond. The 6th C caused me to exchange a H color grade princess cut with a F color grade princess cut. While the 5th C is Cost, the 6th C to me is "What do I SEE?" when I look at the diamond. After I did 40+ hrs of research on pricescope and the internet, I purchased a 2.05ct H VS1 diamond. When the diamond arrived in the mail, we thought it was beautiful! After the diamond arrived we went shopping for a setting. While we were at the stores I couldn't help but look at the loose diamonds also. The jeweler took out a round GIA cert. 1.5ct H VS1 diamond. The diamond looked a little yellow to me but I didn't say anything. After we left the store, I thought if our diamond looked that yellow? I asked my girlfriend what she thought of the diamond at the store and she said it looked yellow. I was horrified! I turned to ashes. Our diamond was H color also. I decided to go back to the store and asked them to show me the H along side a F diamond. Of course the H was more yellow than the F. What did I expect?

After we got home, I examined our diamond over and over again. My girlfriend says ours is fine and she doesn't see any color. But every time I look at it I see a very very faint yellow! I couldn't stop seeing it. Do I really see yellow? I think I can see it with my eyes, but I KNOW I see it with my mind. Everything I looked at our H diamond, I can hear my girlfriend say "It looks yellow." Granted, it's a different diamond that did look more yellow, but every time I looked at the diamond I saw a $12k disappointment.

Long story short, I exchanged the H diamond with a F diamond. Instead of seeing the diamond, now I can see past it.

I exchanged the following:
Princess Cut $12000
2.05
H
VS1
depth - 73%
table - 73%
GIA
girdle - tn-m
culet - no
vg
vg
flour. - faint
7.10x6.90x4.95

with:
Princess Cut $14000
1.95
F
VS1
depth - 73%
table - 69%
GIA
girdle - tn-tk
culet - no
vg
vg
flour. - no
7.02x6.89x5.03

 

[FOODIE]

Aha!

I am trying to engineer the finest in C's that I can afford, with special detail to cut -- where I feel it is overlooked and "not talked about" by most Jewelers who LOVE to show you how much off Rapaport your discount is and will not explain the value of cut. I have compared two pretty similar princess cut diamonds, and I COULD pick out the better cut. Of course, they were side-by-side under good lighting.

As a diamond neophyte trying to ensure that the quality is there in my future wife's diamond, your post takes me all the way back to ... in accordance with what you are saying, WHY NOT BUY A FAKE DIAMOND? No one can tell, right? Size matters? Color matters? You can sneak by with poor cut?

Personally, I want to be sure that I've minded all my C's .. including cost. And, yes, I even suggested we save money, buy diamonique instead of a diamond and take a nice trip. But my fiance would not have it, and I don't think many would enjoy a fake diamond.

Just my opinion!

 

[Tazman282]

I have been doing research on pricescope for a while now and reading all of the valuable information that you offer to so many people and thank all of you so much for that.

I also think that this post should be the first one that new registered people should read before there first post. This post has some of the best information one could ever want based on all the knowledgable posters giving there individual views.

I do have one question though, when looking to purchase a diamond via the web, how do you purchase one of those eye clean SI stones without being able to see it?

I mean I personally am looking for a 1.25 or so G-H SI1-2 but how can I purchase this stone without looking at it. I know that I can have a good idea with a AGS 2 cut or better and I know I am pretty good with the color being accurate but the whole SI1-2 makes me very leary on buying online because I truly don't know what I am getting till it arrives. How did all of you that purchased this type of stone go about finding the one that is eye clean without seeing it? Thanks again for a great post and website.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

AGS 2 = good cut?

Not if you buy one with the steepest and deepest crown and pavilion angles allowed by the grading system.

This AGS 2 stone has around average princess cut performance

 

[yngdaniel]

Jim, since I very recently bought my engagement ring from you, I think it's right that I respond. Even if cut is the least important of the 4 C's, it's also the only one that's often completely ignored by buyers. That's where pricescope's emphasis on cut helped me. I actually had an understanding of what a good cut was and could incorporate it into my purchase.

I went to Tiffany's, they say cut is the most important C, then never make mention of it again. I thought they were talking about round vs. square! Stores on 47th St will all say their stones are the very best cut, gee what a surprise.

I'm with you when it comes to over-emphasis on cut, just because it's super-ideal doesn't make it the best stone in the world. Too much emphasis on any of the C's is a waste, even Carat. Oh, and don't think that cut is completely ignored by women either, I distinctly recall my mom mentioning how my aunt's diamond looked like a 'dinner plate'

Like yahui said, the most important C is what you SEE.

 

[Bagpuss]

While I think cut/make is important, I think that you have to know what the cut/make will mean to you.

In my case, I didn't like the look of the modern cut diamonds, despite their extra sparkle, and so went for an old cut stone, an Old English, to be precise. I get more fire and a prettier facet look, to my mind at least.

If I wanted a modern stone, I'd try and get one that had a make that emphasized fire, rather than brilliance. I'm assured that it is possible to find such modern firey ideals, but I've found it difficult to find them.

Information is a good thing, as long as we use it to aid us in our search to find what suits us. I sometimes feel that the fine details of the arguements about cut/make, that the experts get into, can confuse the average consumer, to the point where he/she looses the thread and gets totally confused. In this case too much information can be very bad.

 

[oldminer]

Diamonds are highly technical for experts, but ought to be a very simple item for consumers.

In an ideal world a consumer would simply buy what they loved from someone willing to give them a fair price and polite service.

We just don't live in Utopia. That's why the process breaks down. Instead of "simple" the whole process has become very technical for those who are not just impulsive buyers.

Remember, the diamond is a gift that represents LOVE and SENTIMENTAL ATTRACTION. The person getting this gift sees it in a very different way than the person who bought and paid for it. I know both sides of this story very well, and it is a very different thing for the two parties that generally are involved. Men would do well to become more romantic about this gift and less compulsive about the engineering details. Women would do well to show their men just how much the gift means to them and not get into all the engineering details. The scientific approach is great for the shopping, but it is a killer of the meaning of the "GIFT".

This is one of the reasons we love old cut diamonds. They are not "perfectly" cut by modern standards, but so many of them are perfect in the romantic sense of beauty and individuality... The world is full of variety and looking only down the standard pathways is not nearly as inviting as looking down the smaller, less walked paths....


I am far from a romantic, but if the first diamond is not the very best one or exactly the right one, there are always going to be other occasions in life where a different diamond might be a great present.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/8/2003 3:33:57 PM Tazman282 wrote:

I do have one question though, when looking to purchase a diamond via the web, how do you purchase one of those eye clean SI stones without being able to see it?

---------------

You call the vendor and you speak to someone who can LOOK at the stone while they're on the phone with you and tell you what he sees. I did this with Brian at Whiteflash, and he compared an SI1 and an SI2 stone for me. He told me the SI2 was cleaner than the SI1 (even though the SI2 stone was less expensive), and he assured me it was eyeclean.

I'm still waiting for my appraisal, but my appraiser said "it's a top, top, top SI2.....DEFINITELY eyeclean."

It's been said before, but it bears repeating from a customer. These vendors operate in a fishbowl here.....it's in their best interest to be fair and honest with their clients. I typically find they are VERY straight about the info.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 12/8/2003 6:37:08 PM oldminer wrote:

Men would do well to become more romantic about this gift and less compulsive about the engineering details. Women would do well to show their men just how much the gift means to them and not get into all the engineering details. The scientific approach is great for the shopping, but it is a killer of the meaning of the 'GIFT'.

----------------

I agree to a point, Dave, but I think that a diamond is like nearly every other purchase. The more you know about an item and are comfortable with your knowledge of it, the more easily you can get into the "romance" or abstract values of it, whether it's a car or a diamond or a new oven.

The less one knows about a product, the more fear of getting fleeced and the stronger urge to collect information that assures us we are making a "smart" purchase.

I can go to the mall tonight, and I'm pretty sure that with nearly 40 years under my belt, I should know what the high and low price of a sweater is. Consequently, I can KNOW that a given garment is overpriced, but I may buy it anyway because it intrinsicly appeals to me. In doing so, I'm aware of the tradeoff I'm making. Most consumers don't have the comfort level with diamond, so they can't feel good about making a purchase simply on gut.