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If you participate in the MMD forum... (poll)

Should MMD be incorporated into RT and SMTB?

  • Yes, mined and lab diamonds should be together

    Votes: 33 45.2%
  • No, keep the MMD forum separate

    Votes: 40 54.8%

  • Total voters
    73

Big Fat Facets

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
1,445
an idea would be to have the current *lab grown diamonds* subforum be the mmd "rocky talky".
mmd members get to post in the "show me the bling" subforum to showcase their jewelry for all to admire and enjoy. by doing so, the "tagging method" gets applied and tested. from what i can see, not too much re-architecturing need occur

because mmd is an emerging industry and the product is continuing to progress, it warrants and deserves to have it's own dedicated rocky talky. i don't feel that merging mmd into the current earth mined rocky talky is advantageous to mmd. if at a later time, all the cuts and makes that are available to earth mined diamonds are also as readily available to laboratory diamond material then it would make more sense.

as it stands, threads in rocky talky get buried so fast. i feel that mmd topics would not get the attention it deserves
 

sprinklesparkles

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
121
I would like to be able to share my MMD pieces in SMTB.

That forum in my mind is about sharing pieces you've put blood sweat and tears (and hours of daydreams) into making. The origin of stones there shouldn't matter.

Yes we have a SMTB here, but it's a small silo of participants. It's one thread vs a whole forum.

Rocky talk is different, and MMD doesn't belong there, as it's more a conversation centered on the stone and people go there looking for mined diamond experts, who aren't necessarily well versed in MMD.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
If the origin of stones there shouldn't matter, we also would like to show off our man made rubies, man made sapphires , man made emeralds, man made jadeites , other man made jems.... in the SMTB!
And why not CZ?
 

sprinklesparkles

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
121
If the origin of stones there shouldn't matter, we also would like to show off our man made rubies, man made sapphires , man made emeralds, man made jadeites , other man made jems.... in the SMTB!
And why not CZ?
Oh yay, you found the poll!

I'd love to hear your opinion on why they shouldn't be allowed, actually.

Facetiously commenting isn't very helpful. Explain in detail why you think they shouldn't be allowed.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
Oh yay, you found the poll!

I'd love to hear your opinion on why they shouldn't be allowed, actually.

Facetiously commenting isn't very helpful. Explain in detail why you think they shouldn't be allowed.
Nay! All "man made" jems should be allowed, right?
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
So you can't articulate an argument for you views?
Oh, it is still not clear to you? Sorry!

Man made rubies, man made sapphires , man made emeralds, man made jadeites , other man made jems "are"... rubies. sapphires, emeralds, jadeites, jems.
Agreed with you that : "That forum is about sharing pieces that the proud owners of such man made things ALSO put blood sweat and tears (and hours of daydreams) into making"
Editted : to make it clearer :" the proud owners of such man made things "

@123ducklings : It is not easy to learn how to separate gold from sand? And your view is only MMD should be allowed, the other man made jems should not be?
 
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sprinklesparkles

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
121
Oh, it is still not clear to you? Sorry!

Man made rubies, man made sapphires , man made emeralds, man made jadeites , other man made jems "are"... rubies. sapphires, emeralds, jadeites, jems.
Agreed with you that : "That forum is about sharing pieces that the proud owners ALSO put blood sweat and tears (and hours of daydreams) into making"


@123ducklings : It is not easy to learn how separate gold from sand? And your view is only MMD should be allowed, the other man made jems should not be?
I see you're still not able to articulate any form of a proper argument against.

Suprised and dissappointed the mods allow this type of disruptive, non-productive needling to persist from someone unwilling to even attempt a discussion.
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
I see you're still not able to articulate any form of a proper argument against.

Suprised and dissappointed the mods allow this type of disruptive, non-productive needling to persist from someone unwilling to even attempt a discussion.
I did articulate the proper argument FOR ( not against) all kinds of man made jems including mmd.
They all "are" jems. They all should be allowed!
 

vintageinjune

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
290
I would like to see a merging of MMD in to the SMTB forum, as that section is all about showing off and admiring each other's pieces, the stories of how they came to be, and enjoying a sense of belonging with the greater PS community. Ideally either people would be honest with labeling their jewels for those seeking to admire them, or some type of tag/symbol system would be in place that makes it easy to identify if said post contains mined or man made diamonds.

@123ducklings asked those who answered "yes" what they feel they are missing by not being able to share on SMTB. SMTB receives far more traffic from what I can see, and not being allowed to post my beautiful MMD stud earrings where more would be likely to see them (including in the "Show me your diamond studs" thread) does evoke a sense of "otherness" that makes me feel less welcome in the PS community at large.

While my initial gut reaction is to merge MMD and the RT forums as well (because getting help with finding a good diamond feels like it should be relatively universal), there are enough nuances between natural and man made diamonds that warrant the separation. That and the abundance of threads posted on RT make it easy for any one post to get lost and more difficult for the help sought to be delivered.
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
537
I would like to see a merging of MMD in to the SMTB forum, as that section is all about showing off and admiring each other's pieces, the stories of how they came to be, and enjoying a sense of belonging with the greater PS community. Ideally either people would be honest with labeling their jewels for those seeking to admire them, or some type of tag/symbol system would be in place that makes it easy to identify if said post contains mined or man made diamonds.

@123ducklings asked those who answered "yes" what they feel they are missing by not being able to share on SMTB. SMTB receives far more traffic from what I can see, and not being allowed to post my beautiful MMD stud earrings where more would be likely to see them (including in the "Show me your diamond studs" thread) does evoke a sense of "otherness" that makes me feel less welcome in the PS community at large.

While my initial gut reaction is to merge MMD and the RT forums as well (because getting help with finding a good diamond feels like it should be relatively universal), there are enough nuances between natural and man made diamonds that warrant the separation. That and the abundance of threads posted on RT make it easy for any one post to get lost and more difficult for the help sought to be delivered.
Thanks for your post. I can see your point of view even though it doesn’t resonate with me. I guess I just don’t see the MMD forum as a lesser venue. There’s no pearls or moissanite on SMTB and the gals who favor those have awesome forums full of great knowledge and jewelry.
 

Dhana

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
96
I think it’s great to have a ma made forum. I think MMD may continue to evolve with maybe new technology etc and the mined diamonds are already there - I mean except for the cuts they are the gold standard that the MMD are comparing themselves to.
personally I don’t care - as long as it is easy to find the info and I think it is reasonable to keep it separate.
 

jaysonsmom

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
3,535
I voted for MMD to be included in the SMTB Forum because bling is bling. I would open it up to all bling too, since I have seen gems of all types, including pearls, moonstones, sapphires.

As for my own personal reason....I am getting an amazing MMD OEC ring commissioned, and mixing MMD with natural diamond pave, and stacking with other rings with natural diamonds. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to show it in a SMTB forum? I personally think a lot of people will be going in the mixed (natural and MMD) route soon and bling is bling IMO.
 

Big Fat Facets

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 7, 2019
Messages
1,445
hi=)2

so for all intent purposes, how is this going to happen??

are completed pieces of mmd jewelry just going to be proudly and happily displayed in *show me the bling* starting now, whenever, soon(ish)??

or

should we/someone, seek permission from the owner and moderator of pricescope??

or

keep it, the way it is, nothing needs to be done *edited*
 
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123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
537
hi=)2

so for all intent purposes, how is this going to happen??

are completed pieces of mmd jewelry just going to be proudly and happily displayed in *show me the bling* starting now, whenever, soon(ish)??

or

should we/someone, seek permission from the owner and moderator of pricescope??

or

keep it, the way it is, nothing needs to be done *edited*
I believe th current rules for SMTB are no MMD. The purpose of this thread was to create a place to discuss since this topic kept coming up on other threads. I believe @Garry H (Cut Nut) flagged the idea of adding MMD to SMTB for the mods but I’m not sure if any decisions were made. You can always report your post and bring the issue to their attention if you like.
 

vintageinjune

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
290
Thanks for your post. I can see your point of view even though it doesn’t resonate with me. I guess I just don’t see the MMD forum as a lesser venue. There’s no pearls or moissanite on SMTB and the gals who favor those have awesome forums full of great knowledge and jewelry.
Thank you for being willing to have an open, civil discussion where we can share our different view points. ^_^ One of my favorite features of this forum (as a whole, there are always exceptions) is how well people are able to consider another's idea/perspective respectfully.

SMTB indeed does not have moissanite or pearls, but those aren't diamonds and... MMD are diamonds? So why not share them where all the other diamond jewelry gets shown off? For me, it would be nice to not have to bounce between the two in order to enjoy oogling the fine jewelry pieces people are willing to post! I didn't bring up the other forums as that wasn't initially part of the poll, just whether or not MMD and SMTB/RT should merge. (I have no strong opinions as to whether or not all jewelry should be allowed in the SMTB forum, as I am torn between my desire for easy equal opportunity bling admiring and acknowledging that since each type of jewel/jewelry has so much information specific to that category it is helpful to have dedicated forums for each).

I don't believe I see the MMD forum as a "lesser venue", certainly the pearl/colored gems/fashion jewelry are not lesser forums; rather, because fine diamond jewelry is fine diamond jewelry regardless of origin (to my mind, there are many who do not share this opinion) I do experience a sense of let down at not being allowed to showcase where so many more people would see. The same does not hold true for my moissanite and pearl pieces - there is no sense of let down associated with the idea of posting them in their respective sections. These categories make sense to me, the separation of MMD and mined for the purpose of posting pictures does not. Keeping RT and MMD forums separated for discussions on finding diamonds makes sense to me.

My mental gymnastics that result in such a stance make sense to no one but me. :D
 

seaurchin

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 2, 2012
Messages
1,488
I'd leave it as it is. In general, I like it whenever I can find what I'm looking for without having to wade through a bunch of other stuff.

Lab diamonds aren't considered the same product in the marketplace as mined diamonds, so it could also mislead newcomers to group them as if they were. Like lab sapphires and other lab stones, lab diamonds sell for a fraction of what similar mined stones sell for, regardless of having the same chemical structure. Though it seems still somewhat up in the air what lab diamonds final value will be considered as, I don't see any reason to believe it will be anywhere near the same as mined diamonds of equal quality (going by the values of other lab vs. mined stones).

And those who are interested in lab stones, whether for a lower price point or ecology concerns, similarly may not want to wade through all the posts about mined stones to find the information they're searching for.

People can much more easily click on the separate forum sections than scroll through them trying to find what they're looking for.
 
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VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
I'd leave it as it is. In general, I like it whenever I can find what I'm looking for without having to wade through a bunch of other stuff.

Lab diamonds aren't considered the same product in the marketplace as mined diamonds, so it could also mislead newcomers to group them as if they were. Like lab sapphires and other lab stones, lab diamonds sell for a fraction of what similar mined stones sell for, regardless of having the same chemical structure. Though it seems still somewhat up in the air what lab diamonds final value will be considered as, I don't see any reason to believe it will be anywhere near the same as mined diamonds of equal quality (going by the values of other lab vs. mined stones).

And those who are interested in lab stones, whether for a lower price point or ecology concerns, similarly may not want to wade through all the posts about mined stones to find the information they're searching for.

People can much more easily click on the separate forum sections than scroll through them trying to find what they're looking for.
Yes!
In short, nature diamond and mmd are 2 different objects. They have different origins, different intrinsic values, different prices and different markets.

Further more although having similar chemical and optical properties of nature diamonds but MMD still have their own distinct characteristics, including inclusions and other features, which allow scientists to distinguish them from natural diamonds.
 

natasha-cupcake

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 16, 2017
Messages
1,145
I voted to keep them separate because I think it makes it easier to find, read and discuss topics and issues that can be different for earth mined and lab grown diamonds. I'm interested in both and feel that each has its place for me. I also believe that keeping the forums separate would reduce inevitable posts and threads that would would arise focusing on whether lab grown diamonds are good/bad/stupid/valid, etc. Or whether purchasers of lab grown diamonds are foolish/smart. Personally, I don't think I could take the drama. I like that I can come over to this forum and not have to deal with that.
 

sparklythings12

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 14, 2020
Messages
26
I’m saying Yes to both, just because I don’t think some of the experts on this forum visit the MMD section a lot. I was seeking advice in vintage cuts, specifically Jonathan’s diamonds, and I know the regulars who usually comment on posts about his gorgeous diamonds didn’t come to my post in the MMD section! And SMTB, why not? A diamond is a diamond (chemically) and so much of SMTB is to showcase the craftsmanship of the settings too! I’m a newbie though, what do I know? Just my thoughts!
 

VDK1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2017
Messages
182
I’m saying Yes to both, just because I don’t think some of the experts on this forum visit the MMD section a lot. I was seeking advice in vintage cuts, specifically Jonathan’s diamonds, and I know the regulars who usually comment on posts about his gorgeous diamonds didn’t come to my post in the MMD section! And SMTB, why not? A diamond is a diamond (chemically) and so much of SMTB is to showcase the craftsmanship of the settings too! I’m a newbie though, what do I know? Just my thoughts!
The SMTB rule : "Only genuine gemstones!"

Every piece of jewellery should showcase design, craftsmanship and ...precious genuine stones.

Man made rubies/ man made sapphires / man made jade/ man made diamonds / man made emerald/ cz .... and other man made stones are not allowed no mater how admirable the design, the craftsmanship of those blings are (if they are).
 

jaysonsmom

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Mar 13, 2004
Messages
3,535
I voted for MMD to be included in the SMTB Forum because bling is bling. I would open it up to all bling too, since I have seen gems of all types, including pearls, moonstones, sapphires.

As for my own personal reason....I am getting an amazing MMD OEC ring commissioned, and mixing MMD with natural diamond pave, and stacking with other rings with natural diamonds. I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed to show it in a SMTB forum? I personally think a lot of people will be going in the mixed (natural and MMD) route soon and bling is bling IMO.
Sorry for quoting myself, but what is everyone's opinion on being able to post on SMTB if you have a blend of MMD and natural diamonds in a ring? Do we need another sub-forum for "blended" bling?

Edited to add, once I get my 20 year Anniversary ring (MMD center, w/natural diamond pave), I plan on resetting my solitaire (natural mined stone) into a 3-stone with 2 MMD side stones, I'll have 2 "blended" rings!
 
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123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
537
Sorry for quoting myself, but what is everyone's opinion on being able to post on SMTB if you have a blend of MMD and natural diamonds in a ring? Do we need another sub-forum for "blended" bling?

Edited to add, once I get my 20 year Anniversary ring (MMD center, w/natural diamond pave), I plan on resetting my solitaire (natural mined stone) into a 3-stone with 2 MMD side stones, I'll have 2 "blended" rings!
Those projects sound awesome! I’m wondering if it would be handled the way the colored stone gals work it out, sort of going by the main stone?
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
537
There’s a really beautiful lab diamond ring posted on RT and SMTB right now, as well as here on the SMTB thread. People have mentioned on the post that it should be moved and the post has been reported, but it’s hasn’t been moved. I know in the past someone else did duplicate posts like that for an MMD ring and one was moved, the duplicate was deleted.

I think some clarity and consistency would be helpful. @Garry H (Cut Nut) ?

Edit: I have reported this post, maybe mods will be able to weigh in
 

Eeveepenny

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 11, 2020
Messages
174
SMTB thread states:
Brag shamelessly about your Bling, engagement, anniversary or any other ring here. Pictures are mandatory! No simulants please - only genuine gemstones. No Pearls either

MMD are genuine gemstones and aren’t simulates so I don’t see what the issue is.... if anyone can clarify that would be great!
 

123ducklings

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jun 10, 2020
Messages
537
MMD are genuine gemstones and aren’t simulates so I don’t see what the issue is.... if anyone can clarify that would be great!
Here’s Garry’s comments on the subject from the other thread:

Man made gems are not 'genuine gemstones'.
This is based on the fact that by definition a gem (in the classes we are discussing) is a minerl.
And by definition a mineral is a naturally occuring chemically individual material.
These are the only 208 exceptions we know about:
.
Garry Geologist and Gemologist.
 

Ella

Brilliant_Rock
Staff member
Trade
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Messages
1,376
Hi folks, MMDs are generally not allowed in Rockytalky. Please report threads if you see them and we will remove them. We do occasionally allow it if for example the question is about a ring setting, and the photo of the example happens to have a MMD in it. That is at our discretion.

For now, we have not been excluding them explicitly from SMTB as long as the focus is on the beautiful ring being showcased and not a discussion on MMD. If a thread turns into a discussion about MMDs, etc. it will be moved. This is also at our discretion.

I cannot promise that this is how things will stay in the future, but for now this is where we are.
 
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