If you have the option of being a stay at home mom, would you?

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/15/2006 10:13:58 AM
Author: fire&ice
Well, having been on the outside looking in - I would have to chime in to say that SAHM is a career. You are the CEO of the family. I don''t know of any SAHM who isn''t in charge of nearly all the runnings of a household. Their husbands defer to them. The reason more men don''t stay at home is that they lack the skills necessary for the job They can''t multi-task, juggle personal relationships, juggle finances, know how to have someone bring home the bacon & then what to do with it.

F&I

WRONG,wrong,wrong!!!

you''re getting away with this comment b/c this is a 75% women site.

 

[Kaleigh]

DF,
Were you a stay at home dad??

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 2/15/2006 1:00:49 PM
Author: kaleigh
DF,
Were you a stay at home dad??

Kaleigh
i change more diapers than some of the mommies here.

 

[Kaleigh]

See, I knew I liked you. My husband changed a few. Always came up with some lame excuse.

 

[gingerBcookie]

I will be making 3-5x more than FI.

I am more "equipped" to raise children/handle the household than FI. (i.e. I am the better cook, i have more experience raising/caring for children and know what to o if they''re sick, etc..., i m more detail oriented and am prob the better disciplinarian.)

Who stays home? Me or FI? Neither?

Should we feel guilty if neither of us do? Are kids who don''t have stay a stay at home parent at an unsurmountable disavantage? Or are we underestimating a kid''s resilience? Will my child truly be psychologically hurt if I cannot pick him up at school immediately if he is running a bit of a fever and he ends up sleeping in the nurses office for a few hours? Will my daughter hate me forever if I miss a few ballet recitals or soccer practices? Will my children be overlooked by the teacher if i''m not the president of the pta?

i had a SAHM for part of my childhood and a working mom for a part. I don''t remeber which part was which because my mother was always a HUGE part of my life. If she was there, i was expected to do my chores, do my homework, etc... If she wasn''t there, well nothing changed. I was still expected to do my chores, my homework, etc.. Did i ever have a homework question that i couldn''t answer? Yes. Was she always there immediately to help? No. Sometimes I had to wait a few hours. Sometimes it sucked. But guess what? Life sometimes sucks. My mother didn''t cater to us. Life doesn''t cater to us. And I think we turned out pretty darn well. My siblings and I are all hugely successsful, loving, and immensely close to our family.

I feel like we''re experiencing a backlash almost. There was a time when children were not cherished and treated like sub-humans. Thanksfully we''ve moved beyond that, but now...are we going to far in the opposite direction? Children are children. I love them and was this close to becomeing a pediatrician. But I didn''t -- number one reason -->CRAZY PARENTS.
I would give up my life for my child. Literally. I would throw myself infront of a car, donate my kidney, liver, HEART, WHATEVER NEEDED to save my child''s life. Despite this, am I to be looked down upon for not giving up my "life/career" for my children? Why are working parents looked at as sub-par parents? Is it not possible to be a FANTASTIC career woman and a FANTASTIC mother? Why not? If you are not there for every single waking moment of your child''s life, does that make you any less of a/a worse mother?

and lastly, why are we jumping all over eachother about this? Why are we justifying to eachother? WHy are we not proud of the fact that now we do have the ultimate luxury -- a choice. Stay at home moms should be applauding working mothers for advancing the female workplace for their daughters, and for trying to "do-it-all" Working moms should be applauding stay at hoime moms for dedicating themselves compleely to thheir family and trying theor best to raise wonderful, productive human beings. Undisputedly, we live in a male-dominated world. It makes me sad and frustrated to hear females tearing at each other when we should be patting each other on the back and lending a helping hand UP.

 

[butterfly 17]

I am not, nor have I ever been a stay at home mom, but since I work nights, I am home during the day time anyway. I am not always awake, but that is another story....

When I get home in the morning, I get home in time to help my daughter get ready for school and then usually I drop her off or my husband will do it. I also pick her up every day from school and help her with her homework, etc. so I don''t feel that she is missing too much from me. If anything, I interact with her more during the week than my husband does.
In fact, since I have been back to work after the baby, I have not had to take my kids to a sitter.

HOnestly though, if I had the option of being a stay at home mom, I would never do it. I would go crazy trying to find things to do. I am just not the type of person to stay at home and going to work allows me to interact and have adult conversation with people other than a 5 year old and a 5 month old.
If I didn''t have a job to go to, I am positive I would go insane.
For me, work is a break away from HOME!

Hell, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I would go on vacation for six months and then go back to work part time.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 2/15/2006 6:13:11 PM
Author: gingerBcookie
I will be making 3-5x more than FI.


I am more ''equipped'' to raise children/handle the household than FI. (i.e. I am the better cook, i have more experience raising/caring for children and know what to o if they''re sick, etc..., i m more detail oriented and am prob the better disciplinarian.)


Who stays home? Me or FI? Neither?


Should we feel guilty if neither of us do? Are kids who don''t have stay a stay at home parent at an unsurmountable disavantage? Or are we underestimating a kid''s resilience? Will my child truly be psychologically hurt if I cannot pick him up at school immediately if he is running a bit of a fever and he ends up sleeping in the nurses office for a few hours? Will my daughter hate me forever if I miss a few ballet recitals or soccer practices? Will my children be overlooked by the teacher if i''m not the president of the pta?


i had a SAHM for part of my childhood and a working mom for a part. I don''t remeber which part was which because my mother was always a HUGE part of my life. If she was there, i was expected to do my chores, do my homework, etc... If she wasn''t there, well nothing changed. I was still expected to do my chores, my homework, etc.. Did i ever have a homework question that i couldn''t answer? Yes. Was she always there immediately to help? No. Sometimes I had to wait a few hours. Sometimes it sucked. But guess what? Life sometimes sucks. My mother didn''t cater to us. Life doesn''t cater to us. And I think we turned out pretty darn well. My siblings and I are all hugely successsful, loving, and immensely close to our family.


I feel like we''re experiencing a backlash almost. There was a time when children were not cherished and treated like sub-humans. Thanksfully we''ve moved beyond that, but now...are we going to far in the opposite direction? Children are children. I love them and was this close to becomeing a pediatrician. But I didn''t -- number one reason -->CRAZY PARENTS.

I would give up my life for my child. Literally. I would throw myself infront of a car, donate my kidney, liver, HEART, WHATEVER NEEDED to save my child''s life. Despite this, am I to be looked down upon for not giving up my ''life/career'' for my children? Why are working parents looked at as sub-par parents? Is it not possible to be a FANTASTIC career woman and a FANTASTIC mother? Why not? If you are not there for every single waking moment of your child''s life, does that make you any less of a/a worse mother?


and lastly, why are we jumping all over eachother about this? Why are we justifying to eachother? WHy are we not proud of the fact that now we do have the ultimate luxury -- a choice. Stay at home moms should be applauding working mothers for advancing the female workplace for their daughters, and for trying to ''do-it-all'' Working moms should be applauding stay at hoime moms for dedicating themselves compleely to thheir family and trying theor best to raise wonderful, productive human beings. Undisputedly, we live in a male-dominated world. It makes me sad and frustrated to hear females tearing at each other when we should be patting each other on the back and lending a helping hand UP.

Yeah...what she said!

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/15/2006 6:13:11 PM
Author: gingerBcookie
I will be making 3-5x more than FI.

I am more ''equipped'' to raise children/handle the household than FI. (i.e. I am the better cook, i have more experience raising/caring for children and know what to o if they''re sick, etc..., i m more detail oriented and am prob the better disciplinarian.)

Who stays home? Me or FI? Neither?

Should we feel guilty if neither of us do? Are kids who don''t have stay a stay at home parent at an unsurmountable disavantage? I believe it really varies from child to child. Or are we underestimating a kid''s resilience?

Will my child truly be psychologically hurt if I cannot pick him up at school immediately if he is running a bit of a fever and he ends up sleeping in the nurses office for a few hours? Perhaps some kids would and some would not, but I know I would feel horrible if I couldn''t get to my sick child within a VERY reasonable amount of time.

Will my daughter hate me forever if I miss a few ballet recitals or soccer practices? Probably not, but you would be very missed,( probably more at the recitals/games) and yes, it may be hurtful to some degree.

Will my children be overlooked by the teacher if i''m not the president of the pta? No, you don''t have to be the president but you do have to be involved to some degree with your child''s teacher/school or they may indeed get overlooked. I have had to advocate for my son a number of times over the years for various reasons, and I can assure you he would have been treated differently, had I not had the time to be involved.

i had a SAHM for part of my childhood and a working mom for a part. I don''t remeber which part was which because my mother was always a HUGE part of my life. If she was there, i was expected to do my chores, do my homework, etc... If she wasn''t there, well nothing changed. I was still expected to do my chores, my homework, etc.. Did i ever have a homework question that i couldn''t answer? Yes. Was she always there immediately to help? No. Sometimes I had to wait a few hours. Sometimes it sucked. But guess what? Life sometimes sucks. My mother didn''t cater to us. Life doesn''t cater to us. And I think we turned out pretty darn well. My siblings and I are all hugely successsful, loving, and immensely close to our family.

I feel like we''re experiencing a backlash almost. There was a time when children were not cherished and treated like sub-humans. Thanksfully we''ve moved beyond that, but now...are we going to far in the opposite direction? Children are children. I love them and was this close to becomeing a pediatrician. But I didn''t -- number one reason -->CRAZY PARENTS.
I would give up my life for my child. Literally. I would throw myself infront of a car, donate my kidney, liver, HEART, WHATEVER NEEDED to save my child''s life. Despite this, am I to be looked down upon for not giving up my ''life/career'' for my children? Why are working parents looked at as sub-par parents? Is it not possible to be a FANTASTIC career woman and a FANTASTIC mother? Why not? If you are not there for every single waking moment of your child''s life, does that make you any less of a/a worse mother?

and lastly, why are we jumping all over eachother about this? Why are we justifying to eachother? WHy are we not proud of the fact that now we do have the ultimate luxury -- a choice. Stay at home moms should be applauding working mothers for advancing the female workplace for their daughters, and for trying to ''do-it-all'' Working moms should be applauding stay at hoime moms for dedicating themselves compleely to thheir family and trying theor best to raise wonderful, productive human beings. Undisputedly, we live in a male-dominated world. It makes me sad and frustrated to hear females tearing at each other when we should be patting each other on the back and lending a helping hand UP.

You make so many excellent points gingerBcookie. I just felt it necessary to answer some of the questions you asked from a mother''s point of view.

Heather

 

[Mara]

From my own experience as the child of a working mother....I had to wait a few hours in the nurses office for my mom to come get me a few times if I was sick...not a big deal. I knew she loved me so it wasn't like she was trying to make me suffer! Also if my grandma could come she would. She also didn't always come to my plays nor was she involved at all with PTA etc etc and seriously it was not a big deal at all nor was I scarred or held back at all, or felt like I was not loved or anything like that. Children are very resilient and they will follow your lead as the parent. How many times has a child fallen and if the parent rushes to kiss the boo boo and coo over them, the child cries louder? But if you act like it's no big deal, they follow your lead. I saw this in action many times when my sister was young.

I actually was talking with Greg the other night re: not letting your lives be run by the children which is a point he agrees on hugely...so many parents run themselves ragged taking them to ballet or soccer or this or that, and in the end does it REALLY make them a more well-rounded individual or does it just make everyone tired? I used to have to play the violin and take lessons thanks to my mom wanting me to who knows what, end up some sort of famous violinist? In the end I just hated the violin and stopped it as soon as I could get her to agree. I have coworkers who are always shuttling their kids all over and I just remember that my mom never really had to do that, she took me to swim practice in the summers and that was it. I rode my bicycle to the library, to the movies, to see friends. I almost feel like there was less work for parents when I was younger and more emphasis was put on playing outside with local friends or being active proactively (aka riding my bicycle or walking to a friend's house) rather than having to 'structure' playtimes by attending a coordinated sport effort or something like that or getting dropped off by a parent. It just all seems so much more difficult and contrived these days. And it takes up so much more of everyone's time.

It's kind of an interesting thought to ponder on why it's become more like the parent has to be involved with everything rather than letting the kids figure out solutions on their own to certain things. aka I want to go to the library. How do I get there?

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/15/2006 8:43:47 PM
Author: Mara


From my own experience as the child of a working mother....I had to wait a few hours in the nurses office for my mom to come get me a few times if I was sick...not a big deal. I knew she loved me so it wasn't like she was trying to make me suffer! Also if my grandma could come she would. She also didn't always come to my plays nor was she involved at all with PTA etc etc and seriously it was not a big deal at all nor was I scarred or held back at all, or felt like I was not loved or anything like that. Children are very resilient and they will follow your lead as the parent. How many times has a child fallen and if the parent rushes to kiss the boo boo and coo over them, the child cries louder? But if you act like it's no big deal, they follow your lead. I saw this in action many times when my sister was young.

I actually was talking with Greg the other night re: not letting your lives be run by the children which is a point he agrees on hugely...so many parents run themselves ragged taking them to ballet or soccer or this or that, and in the end does it REALLY make them a more well-rounded individual or does it just make everyone tired? I used to have to play the violin and take lessons thanks to my mom wanting me to who knows what, end up some sort of famous violinist? In the end I just hated the violin and stopped it as soon as I could get her to agree. I have coworkers who are always shuttling their kids all over and I just remember that my mom never really had to do that, she took me to swim practice in the summers and that was it. I rode my bicycle to the library, to the movies, to see friends. I almost feel like there was less work for parents when I was younger and more emphasis was put on playing outside with local friends or being active proactively (aka riding my bicycle or walking to a friend's house) rather than having to 'structure' playtimes by attending a coordinated sport effort or something like that or getting dropped off by a parent. It just all seems so much more difficult and contrived these days. And it takes up so much more of everyone's time. Interesting thought to ponder on why it's become more like that possibly.

I guess you get more "mushy" about this stuff when you have kids. My mother was a SAHM and I got hurt pretty badly at school and that was the one day my mother actually was out for the day. I have vivid memories of waiting forever for my father to come many hours later to take me to the hospital when all I wanted was my mommy! lol

It's hard to explain how much you change your thoughts and point of view after you become a mother.

I agree that we cater to our children more these days then when we were kids but it is not the same world out there anymore and younger children can't bike, walk around like they used to.

I stand firm on my contention that you have to know what is going on in your child's school/classroom and you can only do that by getting involved somehow.

I am not saying that a woman should not have a career, or that she should devote all waking moments to her child. I just know children need their mothers and they are children for such a short time.

Heather

 

[upgrading mama]

I''m 26 and am a SAHM-that works from home. We run our own campground and we live on the property, so we are both always here "at work". Since it is a summer business, we are both off from November- April, so it''s a pretty unique situation.

I was a teacher before we got married, and I moved away and began working with my hubby. A month later I was pregnant and working on my immigration papers here to work in Canada, so I knew I would be a SAHM. Now we have 2 little boys and I love being with them. While I do miss teaching, I wouldn''t want to go back fulltime at least until they are both in school.

Ideally, I would like to be home when they are. Not having an outside job would mean that I wouldn''t be bringing additional stress into our home (or bringing work home).

Thankfully, our current business allows us to have the best of both worlds and we are both "stay at homes" and workers.

My mother owned her own restaurant when I was growing up and I have the utomst respect and appreciation for all of the work she did there as well as with the three of us.
Kids are not an easy job and honestly, I think they are the biggest imprint we can leave on the world, so for now, I will keep staying here with them.

If I had to work fulltime, I would and I know both of my boys would know that there parents love and care for them deeply. I would rather have them at home with their grandparents (if it was a possibility) or other familiy member before I would choose daycare, but that is just me.

Anyway, here is a picture of my boys from our recent vacation in the Bahamas. Andrew is 21 months and Georgie is 6 months.

 

[Kaleigh]

Sophie,
What a lovely family you have!!!! I think it''s a really neat work situation that you have and that you both can be at home for the most part. I have very good friends that own a camp in Maine and it''s a similar situation to yours. Kudos to you and your husband. Not everyone gets that opportunity, but so glad you have it. Your kids will be very blessed to have both their parents around so much!! They are lucky.

 

[hlmr]

Sophie, your kids are real cuties!!!Thanks for sharing the picture of your family.

They are very lucky to have not only one, but both parents home so much.

Heather

edited to add: I tried to attach a pic of my son and I but I just can't seem to get this picture stuff!!!

 

[mrssalvo]

Date: 2/15/2006 9:06:25 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 2/15/2006 8:43:47 PM

Author: Mara



From my own experience as the child of a working mother....I had to wait a few hours in the nurses office for my mom to come get me a few times if I was sick...not a big deal. I knew she loved me so it wasn''t like she was trying to make me suffer! Also if my grandma could come she would. She also didn''t always come to my plays nor was she involved at all with PTA etc etc and seriously it was not a big deal at all nor was I scarred or held back at all, or felt like I was not loved or anything like that. Children are very resilient and they will follow your lead as the parent. How many times has a child fallen and if the parent rushes to kiss the boo boo and coo over them, the child cries louder? But if you act like it''s no big deal, they follow your lead. I saw this in action many times when my sister was young.


I actually was talking with Greg the other night re: not letting your lives be run by the children which is a point he agrees on hugely...so many parents run themselves ragged taking them to ballet or soccer or this or that, and in the end does it REALLY make them a more well-rounded individual or does it just make everyone tired? I used to have to play the violin and take lessons thanks to my mom wanting me to who knows what, end up some sort of famous violinist? In the end I just hated the violin and stopped it as soon as I could get her to agree. I have coworkers who are always shuttling their kids all over and I just remember that my mom never really had to do that, she took me to swim practice in the summers and that was it. I rode my bicycle to the library, to the movies, to see friends. I almost feel like there was less work for parents when I was younger and more emphasis was put on playing outside with local friends or being active proactively (aka riding my bicycle or walking to a friend''s house) rather than having to ''structure'' playtimes by attending a coordinated sport effort or something like that or getting dropped off by a parent. It just all seems so much more difficult and contrived these days. And it takes up so much more of everyone''s time. Interesting thought to ponder on why it''s become more like that possibly.

I guess you get more ''mushy'' about this stuff when you have kids. My mother was a SAHM and I got hurt pretty badly at school and that was the one day my mother actually was out for the day. I have vivid memories of waiting forever for my father to come many hours later to take me to the hospital when all I wanted was my mommy! lol


It''s hard to explain how much you change your thoughts and point of view after you become a mother.


I agree that we cater to our children more these days then when we were kids but it is not the same world out there anymore and younger children can''t bike, walk around like they used to.


I stand firm on my contention that you have to know what is going on in your child''s school/classroom and you can only do that by getting involved somehow.


I am not saying that a woman should not have a career, or that she should devote all waking moments to her child. I just know children need their mothers and they are children for such a short time.


Heather

I agree with what you said Heather. To elaborate on the kids doing for themselves issuer, I used to walk or ride by bike everywhere. even as a 3rd or 4th grader I remember walking a mile home from school. It''s today''s sociaty kids that age are in danger. Even a local playground is a target spot. Just last week we had 2 attempted kidnappings of middleschooler''s walking home from school. Fortunately they knew to run but there are way to many who don''t. Kids must have adult supervision even in you own yard

My kids are still little so I have know idea how protective I will be when they are older and want to ride or walk to a neighbors or something. I also agree Mara that kids are given and expect a lot these days. It''s hard to even think of Christmas gifts because they get so much stuff during the year that they don''t really need anything. We are already teaching our kids how to do chores and earn "commissions" to save up for things they want. Hopefully, this will help them not just expect mom or dad to buy it when they are teenagers.

 

[upgrading mama]

thanks Kaleigh!
I know we are very blessed with the situation. Granted, in the summer, Scott becomes the camp man and it is sooo busy then, but we get alot of time off. We can go to Rochester, NY where all of my family is, pretty much whenever we want to, and our boys get to play with their cousins etc.
I am very proud of my DH Scott for being such a hard worker and getting this opportunity. I don''t know how many 23 yr olds can do it for 2 yrs and then be sole owner 2 yrs later.
Here is a fun pic of Andrew helping plow the driveway about a week after the Bahamas..oh the irony of sun and snow!!

 

[MINE!!]

Thanks so much Sophie for sharing !! You have a beautiful Family and they are sooo lucky to have both their mommy and daddy at home with them.

I agree 100% with Heather about being involved in school and your child''s education. It is not about being class mom, it is about being there to make sure that your child is getting the BEST education. You can NOT depend ont he school system anymore.

I have debated whether driving my children around and getting them involved in events such as soccer and ballet and violin is worth it... and the answer is a most definite YES!! Children who are involved in sports (statistically) get in less trouble than those who find ways to ''entertain'' themselves after school.

Children who are involved in Music have higher grades and test well (statiscally) Children that have relationships with others outside of school are better adjusted socailly (statistically).

It is a different world than the ones that we grew up in. MUCH different.

As for the lying sick in the nurses office. Well, here is the kicker MOST school NO LONGER HAVE a nurses office, they don''t have comfortable little rooms for them to ''snooze'' in. And teachers and administrators get quite upset when a sick children poses a hazard to other students.. Like I said.. a different world.

I know some parents that DO live vicariously through their children and it is sad. But I know that MANY parents just want what is best for their children and that mean providing them with every opportunity available.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/15/2006 9:41:11 PM
Author: mrssalvo

Date: 2/15/2006 9:06:25 PM

Author: hlmr

Date: 2/15/2006 8:43:47 PM


Author: Mara




From my own experience as the child of a working mother....I had to wait a few hours in the nurses office for my mom to come get me a few times if I was sick...not a big deal. I knew she loved me so it wasn''t like she was trying to make me suffer! Also if my grandma could come she would. She also didn''t always come to my plays nor was she involved at all with PTA etc etc and seriously it was not a big deal at all nor was I scarred or held back at all, or felt like I was not loved or anything like that. Children are very resilient and they will follow your lead as the parent. How many times has a child fallen and if the parent rushes to kiss the boo boo and coo over them, the child cries louder? But if you act like it''s no big deal, they follow your lead. I saw this in action many times when my sister was young.



I actually was talking with Greg the other night re: not letting your lives be run by the children which is a point he agrees on hugely...so many parents run themselves ragged taking them to ballet or soccer or this or that, and in the end does it REALLY make them a more well-rounded individual or does it just make everyone tired? I used to have to play the violin and take lessons thanks to my mom wanting me to who knows what, end up some sort of famous violinist? In the end I just hated the violin and stopped it as soon as I could get her to agree. I have coworkers who are always shuttling their kids all over and I just remember that my mom never really had to do that, she took me to swim practice in the summers and that was it. I rode my bicycle to the library, to the movies, to see friends. I almost feel like there was less work for parents when I was younger and more emphasis was put on playing outside with local friends or being active proactively (aka riding my bicycle or walking to a friend''s house) rather than having to ''structure'' playtimes by attending a coordinated sport effort or something like that or getting dropped off by a parent. It just all seems so much more difficult and contrived these days. And it takes up so much more of everyone''s time. Interesting thought to ponder on why it''s become more like that possibly.

I guess you get more ''mushy'' about this stuff when you have kids. My mother was a SAHM and I got hurt pretty badly at school and that was the one day my mother actually was out for the day. I have vivid memories of waiting forever for my father to come many hours later to take me to the hospital when all I wanted was my mommy! lol



It''s hard to explain how much you change your thoughts and point of view after you become a mother.



I agree that we cater to our children more these days then when we were kids but it is not the same world out there anymore and younger children can''t bike, walk around like they used to.



I stand firm on my contention that you have to know what is going on in your child''s school/classroom and you can only do that by getting involved somehow.



I am not saying that a woman should not have a career, or that she should devote all waking moments to her child. I just know children need their mothers and they are children for such a short time.



Heather

I agree with what you said Heather. To elaborate on the kids doing for themselves issuer, I used to walk or ride by bike everywhere. even as a 3rd or 4th grader I remember walking a mile home from school. It''s today''s sociaty kids that age are in danger. Even a local playground is a target spot. Just last week we had 2 attempted kidnappings of middleschooler''s walking home from school. Fortunately they knew to run but there are way to many who don''t. Kids must have adult supervision even in you own yard

My kids are still little so I have know idea how protective I will be when they are older and want to ride or walk to a neighbors or something. I also agree Mara that kids are given and expect a lot these days. It''s hard to even think of Christmas gifts because they get so much stuff during the year that they don''t really need anything. We are already teaching our kids how to do chores and earn ''commissions'' to save up for things they want. Hopefully, this will help them not just expect mom or dad to buy it when they are teenagers.

It is VERY scary Ms. Salvo. A little girl was taken from HER FRONT yard here about 2 years ago( she was 7).. they found her body in a ditch a few months later. Children are prey now... As a child I remember leaving in the morning and coming home when the street lights turn on. It''s scarey when you realize that if you let your child out of your site.. you may never see them again....

A few months ago we had a seminar int he area that taught children what to do if someone should try to kidnap them. I mean, no run stuff.. it was more like, how the should physically hold ont he the person to prevent them from carrying you (sitting on the ground and wrapping your legs around their legs and screaming for help) They were told how to cause a scene if they are snatched in a store... screaming and grabbing at things on the shelves, grabbing onto poles.. etc.... IT IS TERRIFYING to know my children have to learn these things jsut in case....

 

[hlmr]

A mother''s worst nightmare mrssalvo & mine. It is so hard to even go there mentally and emotionally, but children must be made aware of how prevalent and brazen the predators are today.

There were sickos around when we were kids too, just like there has always been but....today.....very scary!!!!!!

Heather

 

[Mara]

so here is a question....if it''s a different world out there and kids are prey then what changed? i know that i had to be careful too when i was out riding my bike or similar, is today REALLY that different from 20 years ago? or are people just more protective?

i personally HATE that it''s a different world out there now and i see it too and i don''t even have kids. i wouldn''t even leave my dog outside in the yard even on a leash, i can''t imagine letting my child play out there unsupervised. it just takes a second as everyone already knows and has heard for much of our lives.

but why is it a different world? i find that so sad. and yes i do think that some changes are obvious and about safety but others are baffling. why is there no longer a nurses office? what happened there and how is that acceptable in a public school system?

these are things i think about when we ponder having children as well...it not being like it was when i was a kid. why it changed and if that''s acceptable to us as potential parents.

 

[upgrading mama]

As a former teacher, I dealt with working mothers and stay at home mothers. Honestly, the best kind of mother or father, is an involved one. I never cared whether they worked in or outside of the home, as long as they stayed in contact, with me, the teacher, when it was needed.

As many have said, of course balance is key.

There are absolutely moments when I don''t feel like playing airplane or crashing cars on the carpet, but when I am out without them, man do I miss them. And missing them is a healthy thing too and I think it also helps to remind us that the time together is special.

My mom was married very young and had children very young. She is now 46 and she has a 31, 30 and 26 year old. She has an "empty nest" while most of the 9th graders I was teaching had parents the same age as her! She has always told us how fast the years went by, and now that I have my own, I can totally understand it. I want to remember every second of it. No matter how much me students meant to me, it will never touch the relationship I have with my little guys.

Whatever the decision, as long as the couple are happy with it, then that is the most important thing. You will never have the approval of all people (if you have ever had your baby in public you know what I mean! I have been told to cover up my baby, and uncover my baby in the same place!!) It''s hilarious.

 

[rainbowtrout]

Date: 2/15/2006 9:06:25 PM
Author: hlmr

Date: 2/15/2006 8:43:47 PM

Author: Mara



From my own experience as the child of a working mother....I had to wait a few hours in the nurses office for my mom to come get me a few times if I was sick...not a big deal. I knew she loved me so it wasn''t like she was trying to make me suffer! Also if my grandma could come she would. She also didn''t always come to my plays nor was she involved at all with PTA etc etc and seriously it was not a big deal at all nor was I scarred or held back at all, or felt like I was not loved or anything like that. Children are very resilient and they will follow your lead as the parent. How many times has a child fallen and if the parent rushes to kiss the boo boo and coo over them, the child cries louder? But if you act like it''s no big deal, they follow your lead. I saw this in action many times when my sister was young.


I actually was talking with Greg the other night re: not letting your lives be run by the children which is a point he agrees on hugely...so many parents run themselves ragged taking them to ballet or soccer or this or that, and in the end does it REALLY make them a more well-rounded individual or does it just make everyone tired? I used to have to play the violin and take lessons thanks to my mom wanting me to who knows what, end up some sort of famous violinist? In the end I just hated the violin and stopped it as soon as I could get her to agree. I have coworkers who are always shuttling their kids all over and I just remember that my mom never really had to do that, she took me to swim practice in the summers and that was it. I rode my bicycle to the library, to the movies, to see friends. I almost feel like there was less work for parents when I was younger and more emphasis was put on playing outside with local friends or being active proactively (aka riding my bicycle or walking to a friend''s house) rather than having to ''structure'' playtimes by attending a coordinated sport effort or something like that or getting dropped off by a parent. It just all seems so much more difficult and contrived these days. And it takes up so much more of everyone''s time. Interesting thought to ponder on why it''s become more like that possibly.

I guess you get more ''mushy'' about this stuff when you have kids. My mother was a SAHM and I got hurt pretty badly at school and that was the one day my mother actually was out for the day. I have vivid memories of waiting forever for my father to come many hours later to take me to the hospital when all I wanted was my mommy! lol


It''s hard to explain how much you change your thoughts and point of view after you become a mother.


I agree that we cater to our children more these days then when we were kids but it is not the same world out there anymore and younger children can''t bike, walk around like they used to.


I stand firm on my contention that you have to know what is going on in your child''s school/classroom and you can only do that by getting involved somehow.


I am not saying that a woman should not have a career, or that she should devote all waking moments to her child. I just know children need their mothers and they are children for such a short time.


Heather

I really wonder about this idea--is it REALLY more dangerous for kids these days or is it just media hype? I haven''t seen a single stat saying child kidnappings or molestations are up. Perhaps *reports* of pedophiles are up bc people will actually talk about the issue these days and not hide it.

I rode my bike and went to the library and all such things..we lived in a decent community (when I was with mom) She seemed to think if one talks to ones children about the dangers and really makes them understand that they DO NOT go off with strangers, then the risk is minimal. My mom just said "be home before dark/by this time" and she knew my friends, what house I would be at, etc. I knew the drill for kidnappers or abusers though, she had me literally act through what to do if someone tried to grab me and all that.

Now dad does live in a rougher neighborhood, and lord forbid if he didnt know every detail of where Darius and I were going to be! But that makes sense to me--it''s real risk, there is more crime in the area. I don''t know if the world is a less safe place now for kids than it used to be, it seems to be in our heads and in the media.

OTOH, I was thinking about it the other day and letting my kid go out to play and not being with them every second is going to be TOUGH. Ack, overprotective parents anonymous, here I come!

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/15/2006 10:04:48 PM
Author: Mara
so here is a question....if it''s a different world out there and kids are prey then what changed? i know that i had to be careful too when i was out riding my bike or similar, is today REALLY that different from 20 years ago? or are people just more protective?


i personally HATE that it''s a different world out there now and i see it too and i don''t even have kids. i wouldn''t even leave my dog outside in the yard even on a leash, i can''t imagine letting my child play out there unsupervised. it just takes a second as everyone already knows and has heard for much of our lives.


but why is it a different world? i find that so sad. and yes i do think that some changes are obvious and about safety but others are baffling. why is there no longer a nurses office? what happened there and how is that acceptable in a public school system?


these are things i think about when we ponder having children as well...it not being like it was when i was a kid. why it changed and if that''s acceptable to us as potential parents.

These are very good question Mara.. I wish I knew the answers. I think people are just more... AWARE perhaps. I think that 20 years ago we just thought we were safer. More people.. more crime too, methinks. We hear about it more, we see it more and people are scared to death. We now know what happens to those children that gets snatched off the street and we are terrified. ( We meaning.. everyone)

Budget cuts... Public school budget cuts... period. We have a nurse that visits the school 2X a month... just to say that there is a nurse.. She services 27 school.. elementary to High school. It is unacceptable, but that is only the short of it. Teachers buy their own supplies out of pocket, there is not enough money for field trips to museums, equipment is old and teachers are only temperory. There are teachers that are lifers.. but many use it as a "experience" job, something of a starter job after college. After a few years they move on to other careers... it is sad. Children get overlooked when they are not problem children. The kids in the middle are forgotten, the kids on top are scooted away to other programs 1 time a week and ''problem'' children take up about 90% of a teachers time.

In NC.. they have started taking teaxhers tht have only an associates degree to teach children. Ed. majors take more theoretical education coursee than specialization courses. To teaxher high school history you only have to take 24HRS of History.. the rest are ed course.. education in theory...

It is sad... I guess that is why I know I have to be in kids business 100% when it comes to school. My daughters come home and I have to sometimes RETEACH them the same thing that they were supposed to learn in school that day. Both my kids are on A/B students. It is very time consuming. They both have ''family projects'' due almost every week... projects that take up to 3 hrs to do.. WITH my help...

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/15/2006 10:04:48 PM
Author: Mara
so here is a question....if it's a different world out there and kids are prey then what changed? i know that i had to be careful too when i was out riding my bike or similar, is today REALLY that different from 20 years ago? or are people just more protective?

i personally HATE that it's a different world out there now and i see it too and i don't even have kids. i wouldn't even leave my dog outside in the yard even on a leash, i can't imagine letting my child play out there unsupervised. it just takes a second as everyone already knows and has heard for much of our lives.

but why is it a different world? i find that so sad. and yes i do think that some changes are obvious and about safety but others are baffling. why is there no longer a nurses office? what happened there and how is that acceptable in a public school system?

these are things i think about when we ponder having children as well...it not being like it was when i was a kid. why it changed and if that's acceptable to us as potential parents.

I lost my post again AARRGGG!

To recap Mara, I blame the increasingly violent child predators on kiddie-**** and therein lies the difference b/t when you and I were kids and now.

There were always sickos out there but they have become more brazen and more violent and I attribute this to a large extent to the HUGE child pornography industry that is so easily accessible via the internet.

As far as nurses in schools - gone for a long time to my knowledge. "Have a seat on that wooden chair and someone will be along shortly to pick you up" is about all kids get these days.

Is any of this acceptable - NO - but there it is!

Heather

 

[Kaleigh]

I don't know where you live Heather but all the schools around here have a nurse or two for that matter. The schools couldn't run without them and they would be liable not to have them. My son visits the nurse for his breathing treatments before he plays squash every day.

 

[rainbowtrout]

also, from talking to the DB''s mom, a respected child psychologist, I have to wonder about the value of overscheduling children. I come from a very hyper-active, competitive community of kids who all had soccor, music, you name it. It was very good in the sense of having something to do after school and having a community of friends. However there were children where it was you WILL go to Harvard and thus you WILL do soccer and band and take 5 AP classes and be the best at everything.


I still find the importance of unstructured time to be HUGE, especially to foster independant thought and creativity. If you don''t have a TV, your kids can''t watch TV in this time---they have to read or take apart things or some other constructive activity. No, maybe they won''t go to Harvard, but they will learn to think for themselves.

Especially with sports, since I know a lot of people who really injured themselves in high school playing too hard, I think parents have a role in moderating their child''s activity.

Some of the kids here at Penn got here by staying up until 4AM every morning in high school busting their butts working. About half of the kids I know like this are still doing OK but are depressed and unhappy. If I had been staying up until 4AM you bet your a## my mom would have known and she would have made me quit some of those extracurricular activities. Health, mental and physical, is important too.

 

[hlmr]

Date: 2/15/2006 10:33:07 PM
Author: kaleigh
I don''t know where you live Haether but all the schools around here have a nurse or two for that matter. The schools couldn''t run without them and they would be liable not to have them. My son visits the nurse for his breathing treatments before he plays squash every day.

That''s great kaleigh and that''s the way it should be, but I don''t think that is the norm these days.

 

[MINE!!]

I know that in VA. and NC school nurses have not been around for a good 10 years or so. I have never met the nurse for my daughters school... she was not in that day... By ''89 I saw no hair of nurses in schools. Our Elementary school doesn''t even have a nurses office. I know that in high schools there are ''athletic trainers'' that can give students... ''treatments''.. but no one there for sickness of injuries. Just getting medication into the school is hard. We are told when our children start school that if kids need to take any antibotics during the day that they would NOT be administered and that we would have to come in and do it ourselves, or keep our children at home.

 

[Mara]

that is actually what i was thinking RT when i posted above..'overscheduling' children....Mine mentioned statistics that show XYZ but in reality i don't pay much attention to what statistics show in general (not just about this topic but in general), they typically are skewed, and half the time paid for by those services or comanies who just want to prove THEIR point. not that i don't think that some extra-curricular stuff is important, but in my house we had to be home after school right away and then we'd hang out with my mom or similar (she's a teacher so she was home by 4pm when we came home) and that is how my 15 year old sister is doing it right now. she takes swimming and she does dance but other than that she hangs out at home with my mom, does her homework and that's it. there's not alot of other stuff going on in her life but she also reads and hangs out and watches TV and she's very intelligent and well-rounded. if anything she gets too much homework and is overtired from THAT, not overscheduling.

you mentioned thinking for themselves, that's kind of what i was getting at with the whole 'i want to go to the library, how will i get there?'....aka my mom didn't have to do everything for me and i was capable of figuring things out on my own and learned slowly over time also to take care of myself that way and not entirely rely on my family/parents/mom. mom didn't have to walk me down to my friends house..maybe she wanted me to learn how to get there on my own (up the street), but she would call when i got there to ensure i was safe. on one hand some may think that she could have walked me own, others may agree with her letting me figure it out on my own. just an example.

heather i find it interesting you mention that you feel the internet with the prevalence of **** etc as being why there seems to be more child-related crimes recently...i definitely didn't think of that as a possibility....but maybe there is some truth to it. though i do have to ask also has there really been a RISE in this type of thing over the last 10 years or 20 years? or is it just that people are more aware as Mine says? is there a balance maybe to be had there too? trust me, i am sure i will be a hugely protective mother, i am with PORTIA for god's sake, but i'd love to NOT be too protective. that whole balance thing.

 

[MINE!!]

Date: 2/15/2006 10:33:57 PM
Author: rainbowtrout
also, from talking to the DB's mom, a respected child psychologist, I have to wonder about the value of overscheduling children. I come from a very hyper-active, competitive community of kids who all had soccor, music, you name it. It was very good in the sense of having something to do after school and having a community of friends. However there were children where it was you WILL go to Harvard and thus you WILL do soccer and band and take 5 AP classes and be the best at everything.



I still find the importance of unstructured time to be HUGE, especially to foster independant thought and creativity. If you don't have a TV, your kids can't watch TV in this time---they have to read or take apart things or some other constructive activity. No, maybe they won't go to Harvard, but they will learn to think for themselves.


Especially with sports, since I know a lot of people who really injured themselves in high school playing too hard, I think parents have a role in moderating their child's activity.


Some of the kids here at Penn got here by staying up until 4AM every morning in high school busting their butts working. About half of the kids I know like this are still doing OK but are depressed and unhappy. If I had been staying up until 4AM you bet your a## my mom would have known and she would have made me quit some of those extracurricular activities. Health, mental and physical, is important too.

I hear ya.. and agree with you. It is not about overscheduling your children it is about scheduling your children. I agree that children need to foster their imagination. I have met parents that push their kids too hard. it is about moderation, but it is about teaching children structure too, competition, camradere and sportsmanship and this roles over into 'real life' in the long run.

I think the most important issue of parents wanting to make sure a time is full (when they are no at home) is NOT because a parent is pushing a child, NOT because we are trying to push them into Harvard, NOT because we are not encouraging them to think for themselves, and DEFINTELY NOT because we do not trust them.... we just do not trust anyone else.. not with the lives of our children. Meaning, I do not mistrust my daughter if she says that she is going to the library, I mistrust the society that might make it so that she cannot get there.

 

[rainbowtrout]

mara you are right on about statistics...they are so often skewed. I just meant anecdotal evidence of it being a worse world is even harder to sort through.