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I think I have found the stone but I need some advice please

captainmcgee

captainmcgee

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Aug 10, 2010
Messages
329
Ok so today I went to view another stone 4.18 E RB SI2. Perfect proportions table, depth etc

It was incredible. A stunner, "sparkled brilliantly" (according to my SO, cute!) it was triple EX cut, perfect proportions and it had so much personality. I loved it. Then I picked it up and looked closely at it. So about 10-20 centimetres from my face and I could see inclusions, only tiny little marks there weren't heaps but there were a few. It did not detract from the brilliance and sparkle but I now know it is there. It is a fantastic price, a fantastic stone. Should this bother me? Would it bother you? I feel like it is the stone but I just wonder if over time it will bother me.

The place I am getting it from does an upgrade policy, full money back or exchange policies too so I am not too worried about that. They hare going to purchase regardless even if we don't as they believe it is a beautiful stone for their inventory so I feel like it is fantastic value for money and a gorgeous stone.

I've tried to get advice from my SO but says whatever makes me happy makes him happy and it looked fantastic to him. SO also said would people put it up to their face like 5 centimetres away from their faces and inspect the ring (which I thought to be terribly rude?) do people do this?

Would this stone be classified as eye clean if I couldn't see the inclusions from an 3/4 of an arms length? Should it matter to me if it is eye-clean if I love it? I am really torn as to what to do. Would you purchase this or should I just forget it?

Can anyone link me to some SI2 RB's in the 2+ ct range?
Need some advice desperately.

Thanks
Mif
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

to go up to SI1 or VS2 would be a considerable price difference.

People will not put it up to their face 5 cm away, and inspect it. People can't even focus at that range. And to do it for more than a second would be rude.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Thanks so much JulieN for your advice.

Do you think that if I can see them close up then it is not classified as eye-clean or is it?
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

mif_|1290764909|2779579 said:
Thanks so much JulieN for your advice.

Do you think that if I can see them close up then it is not classified as eye-clean or is it?
Click to expand...

The definition of the term "eye clean" is totally subjective. For some people it means "even if i have eagle eyes and i stick my face on the stone, i can't see any inclusions". For other people it means "if i hold the stone in a certain distance (the distance can be anything from say 15 cm to...15 m, lol :D ) i can't see anything, but if i bring it really, reeeeally close to my eyes i can see something (but i don't care coz i won't be doing that in my every day life and neither will anybody else who sees my ring, so it's eye clean according to my standards...).
Whether the specific stone that you're looking at is eye clean or not, is only up to you to decide. In my opinion, nobody would try to stick their face and observe your diamond from very up close and for more than a few seconds, so i don't think that you would have any problem with other people noticing anything. But the important issue here is YOU. You will be wearing the ring and you should be absolutely happy with it, especially given the fact that your FF will spend a lot of money on it. So, if you can see the inclusions and you know exactly where they are, you have to ask yourself: Regardless of what anybody else can and can't see, do i mind seeing those inclusions in my diamond? Will i be happy with it in the long run"? If the answer is yes, then go for it. Otherwise, hold your horses for a while until the right diamond comes along....
Last but not least: Friends and colleagues wouldn't dare "put your diamond under the microscope" and observe it, because this is considered extremely rude according to anybody's standards...BUT...Very close family members, like: sisters in law, mothers and mothers in law, aunts and cousins, sometimes wouldn't hesitate doing it...No kidding...It has happened to more than one of my engaged friends and it made them very upset. So, make sure that you don't mind any such people from your environment doing this to you, because you never know who will do it and if this bothers you, you will be feeling nervous every time you have to show your ring to them... :wavey:
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

natyLad said:
mif_|1290764909|2779579 said:
Thanks so much JulieN for your advice.

Do you think that if I can see them close up then it is not classified as eye-clean or is it?
Click to expand...

The definition of the term "eye clean" is totally subjective. For some people it means "even if i have eagle eyes and i stick my face on the stone, i can't see any inclusions". For other people it means "if i hold the stone in a certain distance (the distance can be anything from say 15 cm to...15 m, lol :D ) i can't see anything, but if i bring it really, reeeeally close to my eyes i can see something (but i don't care coz i won't be doing that in my every day life and neither will anybody else who sees my ring, so it's eye clean according to my standards...).
Whether the specific stone that you're looking at is eye clean or not, is only up to you to decide. In my opinion, nobody would try to stick their face and observe your diamond from very up close and for more than a few seconds, so i don't think that you would have any problem with other people noticing anything. But the important issue here is YOU. You will be wearing the ring and you should be absolutely happy with it, especially given the fact that your FF will spend a lot of money on it. So, if you can see the inclusions and you know exactly where they are, you have to ask yourself: Regardless of what anybody else can and can't see, do i mind seeing those inclusions in my diamond? Will i be happy with it in the long run"? If the answer is yes, then go for it. Otherwise, hold your horses for a while until the right diamond comes along....
Last but not least: Friends and colleagues wouldn't dare "put your diamond under the microscope" and observe it, because this is considered extremely rude according to anybody's standards...BUT...Very close family members, like: sisters in law, mothers and mothers in law, aunts and cousins, sometimes wouldn't hesitate doing it...No kidding...It has happened to more than one of my engaged friends and it made them very upset. So, make sure that you don't mind any such people from your environment doing this to you, because you never know who will do it and if this bothers you, you will be feeling nervous every time you have to show your ring to them... :wavey:
Click to expand...

I totally agree with natyLad...she exactly took the stock of the situation...now it's really your own personal choice, but it's not a point of no return if you have upgrade/exchange policies.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

I agree with Natylad as well.

I have a trick to suss out unwanted clarity inclusions though, and feel free to do this in front of the vendor. They can clean it again.

Take someone's hands and smush it all over the diamond - put finger prints, leave lotion residue, whatever. Now take a look at the stone. Are the inclusions fine by you? Do they bother you?

Unless you're ultrasonic-ing the stone every night and maybe even during the day, your stone will be dirty at least some of the time from environmental factors. With any well-cut stone, the sparkly flashes are too distracting for you to really be able to see anything else. Especially when you're with a vendor, the vendor makes sure that stone is clean as a whistle. They even make you hold it with tweezers. By removing some of the sparkliness, it gives you a better opportunity to see whether the inclusions would bother you in truer to real life conditions.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Iota hit the nail on the head. Hubby and I purchased a replacement for my lost/stolen er in June. It was an SI2, but in the store, I couldn't see any inclusions. I even took it outside for a second and didn't see anything. We purchased the stone. As soon as I received it at home (they had to set it for me and then ship it to me), I saw a black inclusion. I was upset about it and called them immediately.

We ended up going back to NYC to exchange the ring, but I had the stone for about 3 months while they sourced a replacement for me and when the stone was the slightest bit dirty, the inclusion was even more visible. If seeing the inclusion is going to bother you, I'd keep looking...and yes, when people looked at my ring (the stone with the inclusion in it), my heart was always in my throat wondering if they were going to notice the inclusion. No one other than my Mom and sister ever said anything, but I was nervous about it and that's not how you want to feel about your ER.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Thanks so much for your advice.

I am going to ask them to send me some photos if possible and then I am going to go and see it again. Everything about it is perfect expect for the fact that there is what the vendor called a "tiny rash" which I noticed but then again I have eagle eyes and was searching for it because I know it is an SI2.

Hopefully I will be able to make a decision when I see it again. I feel very torn because I am not sure that I will be able to get an SI1, E, Triple Ex at anywhere near this price and now I have seen the E colour I am not sure I could go lower.


By the way, does anyone have a link to a few examples of SI2, like a tutorial that points out the inclusions etc because I am not sure whether it is just my eyes are overly sensitive and maybe even an SI1 I would notice or whether they are really prominent!
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Each stone, Si1 or Si2, needs to be judged on an individual basis.

I have an Si2 E (although I would have been perfectly happy with an H color). It took a while to find but I had difficulty not just with eye cleaniness, but also finding a well cut fancy (cushion).

Just know - even with Si1 stones, there can still be visible inclusions. It's okay to stay in the Si2 range. There may not be many in your carat size, but keep bringing them in if this particular stone's inclusions bother you.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Thanks Iota.

I just had a conversation with a friend and she put it in perspective. Not everything is perfect and there are much bigger things to worry about, I should remember just how luck I am to have an incredible SO who is loving and incredible and who is willing to spending that much $$$ on me and if I never had a choice and he gave it to me because the vendor recommended then I wouldn't be ecstatic? (plus there is always an upgrade policy!)

Question would this be eye-clean? I need some reference stones that are eye-clean so I can work out whether I am just overly sensitive. I know I am colour sensitive so the E is important to me so I think I am now actually caring more what others think that what I think.
http://www.faycullen.com/products/GC606R5D/

A note: the inclusions are little carbon inclusions so not the best kind but scattered around. Do you think to the untrained and uneducated eye it would just look like light and shade?
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Is this eye-clean?
http://www.artofplatinum.com/portfolio/details.php?image_id=247


To me it looks like I can see some inclusions but then again maybe my eyes are tricking me and that is what is happening when I look at this stone.

Courtesy of leonmege.com
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Not sure if it is the light, but I think I can see inclusions also, especially he one near the center of the diamond.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

I can see the inclusions in the faycullen photo. Nothing jumps out at me in the leon mege photo. It's hard to judge whether something is eyeclean by a photo. You really have to see it in person.

The GoodOldGold website has some nice photos with SI2 inclusions (see the tutorial on clarity).
Also try looking at the jamesallen website for 4 ct, si2 diamonds. The photos of those diamonds will give you an idea of what passes for an Si2 in 4 carat diamonds.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Thanks everyone!

Yes I wasn't sure whether it was the light but I saw the inclusion in the Leon Mege shot also. I think my eye is drawn to them so I think perhaps it will be this way unless I jump up a few grade and I don't want to do that.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

HI:

Is the inclusion "prongable"?

cheers--Sharon
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Hi there

Well yes one is definitely prongable. There are a few tiny tiny black pinprick spots on one side which obviously won't be completely covered but I wonder whether these will be noticeable one it is set.

I am going to at this stage be setting it similarly to this: http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/home/ring-details/?product_id=5509
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Any eye-visible inclusions in an engagement ring stone would be a complete dealbreaker for me. If I were you (and assuming you don't want to sacrifice size at all), I'd go down on the color and up on the clarity. I'm kind of guessing here, but I think you could probably get an F-G, VS2-SI1 for a similar price to your E/SI2.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

I am not sure as my vendor was adamant that stones like this aren't coming along very often. I was originally willing to drop down to an H at the lowest but only with Fluro. I think F would be comfortable and SI1 but my vendor is extremely strict on cut as am I and also the price this stone is at is our max budget. So I am a bit lost as to what to do. My vendor said they will be purchasing the stone if we don't so I suppose I could ask for them to bring more in for me and then I can compare them with the E SI2.

Would this be possible?
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Hi mif :twirl:

I think there are two very important questions you should consider:

1) Are you ok with small inclusion?
2) Are you ok if your friends/family point the inclusion out to you?

My recent experience with my own ER was I bought a VS2 and the vendor told me it was eye-clean. He however, DID NOT tell me prior hand that the inclusion was visible from the side-on view. Despite doing their best to hide it with a prong, it is still visible with the naked eye. However, what I found when I got it was that I didn't care it was there - the inclusion almost reminds me of a birthmark, so that it will be harder for a jeweller to switch and me not notice it's not my diamond.

Also another thing, obviously I don't know your friends and their manners, but I have had people request me to take off my ring, upon which they began inspecting it at extremely close range from ALL angles. I am sure they noticed the inclusion, but were at least polite enough to not point out anything. I've also had people put my ring on ( :errrr: ) without even asking, then started comparing it to their own ring. So really hard to predict how close/far people will get with your ring these days! But I think your friends will be more courteous than my acquaintances. :wacko:

Anyway, sorry for rambling. Good luck with it all, you are certainly a VERY lucky lady! ;))
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Thanks so much for your advice. I am just going to have to go and see it again and really just try and work out how I feel. I just can't work out whether I care or not.
 
UPDATE!!!

Ok I have spoken to my vendor this morning. I am going to see it again today or tomorrow and she swears to me that 3 other people have varified it eye-clean. I think maybe I was making it up or looking at the wrong thing who knows, I am not an expert.

I am going to do the grime trick see if it annoys me, she said she doesn't believe she can do a better stone on this price and I agree. The personality of the stone is unbelievable and those are the things that I wanted colour, carat and personality so I think I am getting that here. I will report back when I go and see it which will be either today or tomorrow. She has the certifcate for me to see and just told me to stay and look and walk around and inspect it in every which way and the decide if I want it. So I actually feel 1000x more confident that I was just my eyes playing tricks on me rather than actually knowing what to look for but then again I may just be crazy super eagle eye (which I think I might be and I can live with the inclusion if no one else can see them haha, is that bad??)
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

OK that sounds good, make sure you inspect it really close up in lots of different lighting, also check out the fluor in sunlight if possible, if you love it then who cares if it is a SI2 :) alternatively you may want to compare it to some lower color to see if you would prefer that or smaller diamonds to see what you like best, maybe compare it to a 3.5 ct if your jeweler has any.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

I don't care if its SI2 so can't wait to see it again.

Well my mum has a 3.5 and I felt 4 was perfect for me and I've seen F, G, H and I and F & E was sort of the lowest I wanted to go I am very colour sensitive. I think I am perfectionist and don't want to compromise on anything but think I can compromise clarity to get the other C's perfect :-) will report back when I have gone- think it will be tomorrow.
 
Upate!

Update: got a copy of the certificate put the specs into HCA came out as 1.5. So happy the plot show only a tiny inclusion so looks like my eyes were playing tricks. This is the stone! Yay!!!!!

Excellent, excellent, excellent for fire, scintillation and light return.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Yay! Congratulations!!! I can't wait to see it on your hand!

When are you bringing it home?
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Well I need to get it set so going to see jewellers this week so I hope before new year then SO will hide it from me :-( hahaha
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

I'm in the same boat... with an Si2, E too. Hopefully it won't be hidden for too long.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Yay SI2 E :-)

Is yours your avatar?
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

Yup. It's eyeclean too... I can't wait.
 
Re: I think I have found the stone but I need some advice pl

I'm happy for you...feel free to make me happy posting pictures of your "baby diamond" when you get it.
Best,
Purplesilk
 
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