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I see inclusions! aughh

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JAMSRING

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2008
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I have been lurking for a few weeks and LOVE these forums! My bf and I have been dating for 2 years and I could not be more in love. I tryuy have found a real gem (pardon the pun!). Anyhow, we have been looking at rings for a few weeks. Today I found a Kirk Kara ring that I feel in love with! We had been pricing si1 and si2 rings in the g-h range between .75 and 1 ct. i was under the impression this was a very good color clarity range. However when I really looked at the few samples they had there I saw what looked like a stray hair. Under magnification it reallly became clear. My bf could not see it until I took a pen and pointed right to what I saw. He then only saw it under magnification. The irony is I am the least observant person you will ever meet. I am so not a "girly girl" nor am I about keeping up with the jones''. The last thing I thought would ever bug me was a tiny inclusion. However, once I saw it thats all I could see. The color drained from my bf''s face. I think we was ready to come back and buy that ring! I know he wont now after I pointed it out and was like "how can you not see that!" We really cant afford to go up much. What is the next step? Looking at lots of diamonds until there is one that I am not bugged with? He is looking online now. He just sent me this one http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-597464.htm Is there a catch? Its not that much more then the SI1 and SI2 ones we looked at today. We are kind of hesitant to buy online, but you all seem to think its wonderful

thanks!
 
F/IF seems quite a bit of overkill--perhaps a knee-jerk reaction to the other stone? What is your budget? And you looking to stay in a certain color range? The good folks of PS can give you some options if you just provide that info, but going down in clarity (perhaps not to an SI just for your own peace of mind, although there are plenty of eye-clean SI1 and SI2s on this board) to at least a VS2 will get you a bigger stone and save some $$$.
 
You're going to see inclusions under magnification at SI1 and SI2. The question is, can you see them with the naked eye? There are eyeclean SI1s, I have one. I can see inclusions under magnification, but not with my eyes, no matter how hard I squint. Some people have eyeclean SI2s. If you scrutinize the diamond under magnification, you will see flaws - you may see them even in the VS range of clarity. The question is, can you see them from a reasonable viewing distance (maybe 8 inches)? Or, if it's a "mind clean" thing for you where you have to not be able to see inclusions under magnification, your price point will jump up to get to a higher clarity.

As far as the Whiteflash diamond, just have your bf call them up and ask if it's eyeclean. My diamond is a WF, and it really is eyeclean for me, and I'm very happy to have a bargain.

ETA: I didn't realize the other stone was IF - that's WAY too high a clarity. Ask WF to recommend an eyeclean SI1, or go to a VS2, you'll be fine. Trust their judgment, too, they will be straight with you about inclusions.


Here's a super-clean SI1, it's all about finding the right one, when you're looking at SI1: http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-608086.htm
 
I agree that it might be a knee jerk reaction to be lookign at an IF. However, isnt 3500 is reasonable for a 3/4 carat stone? Are we missing something? I know most people here would like a bigger stone, but I really like the look of the 3/4 on my finger. It funny.....many like bigger, but I really dont. However, most would not notice the inclusions I did today and I totally do! I guess its a personal thing. So if I just want a 3/4 ring is that a good route to go?
 
It really depends on the individual stone. I have an SI1 that I can''t see any inclusions on, either with the naked eye or with a loupe. I might be extraordinarily unobservant, but I have seen inclusions in other diamonds just fine so I think it''s stone-related. Why not check out a few VS stones and see what you think about them? Seems like now you''ve jumped from one end of the spectrum to the other without stopping to see the sights on the way.
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Very valid relpy and I totally agree! I think this whole thing got my bf thinking. He is a sound engineer and he can "hear" things most people can''t when it comes to live music. He has speakers that go way beyond what the human ear is supposed to hear, yet they sound amazing to to everybody. Its almost like people just know its great without being able to pinpoint it or hear a difference. I think he is thinking a diamond is like that. It goes beyond what you should be able to see or not. Like you just know when you are looking at a flawless one. I am not sure I agree, but I think that is his current logic and I find it kind of cute. I am sure that is why he is looking at flawless. That could change after sleeping on it. Speaking of which I need to sleep on it as well! I look forward to seeing responses in the morning :)
 
I completely understand where you are coming from. Seeing inclusions can be quite off putting. I had to go from the SI range to VS range in order to avoid the same thing. This being said, there is a whole shade of gray between the extremes of white (FL) and black (SI) on the clarity scale.

If you are insistent that you want "no" inclusions, period - visible or not - then you will have to go with a FL or IF diamond. This grade, of course, you understand comes with quite a premium, therefore, is significantly more expensive than another stone of the same quality but a lesser clarity grade.

If you just don't want to see the inclusions with the naked eye or maybe even at 10x magnification, I would have to say that you would likely be safe somewhere within the VVS 1/2 or VS1 range. This means you could go up a little in size or even in color, which I tend to think is more noticeable than clarity, but not risk having to see as many or as large or ugly inclusions under magnifcation. Going all the way to IF is just not necessary unless, as stated above, this is something that you are insistent upon for "mindclean" reasons, for example.

If you have the opportunity, you may want to see a range of diamonds with different clarity grades under the microscope and see if you experience the same aversion at seeing some of the smaller or more delicate inclusions.

Here is an example of another Whiteflash diamond that has a better cut, as it is an A Cut Above diamond, (cut is the most important factor to consider) and it is a higher color grade and for all intents and purposes the same carat weight for virtually the same price ... I'm sure that the price quoted would actually be less if paying by bankwire or by taking a PS discount into account.

Click here to see. It is a 0.716 G/VS1 ACA ...

What do you think? If you take a look at the 40x mag picture as well as the AGS cert plot, you will see that there are minimal inclusions and they are quite insignifcant. So small actually that you would likely have some difficulty locating them under magnifcation.
 
Just wanted to ditto Sparks that cut is the most important aspect of a diamond''s beauty. I''d far rather have an ACA at VS1 or 2 over a lesser cut with IF clarity. My diamond is VS1, and I cannot see anything with a 10x loupe.
 
Just want to chime in and add that I also have a VS1 diamond and I am very happy with it. In fact if I can do it over again I might consider getting VS2. If you decide to buy from Whiteflash I recommend choosing from their ACA or ES collections. The diamond that you found seems to be not from their normal collection. Others have posted some excellent choices above. Good luck!
 
Date: 1/30/2008 10:42:47 PM
Author:JAMSRING
I have been lurking for a few weeks and LOVE these forums! My bf and I have been dating for 2 years and I could not be more in love. I tryuy have found a real gem (pardon the pun!). Anyhow, we have been looking at rings for a few weeks. Today I found a Kirk Kara ring that I feel in love with! We had been pricing si1 and si2 rings in the g-h range between .75 and 1 ct. i was under the impression this was a very good color clarity range. However when I really looked at the few samples they had there I saw what looked like a stray hair. Under magnification it reallly became clear. My bf could not see it until I took a pen and pointed right to what I saw. He then only saw it under magnification. The irony is I am the least observant person you will ever meet. I am so not a ''girly girl'' nor am I about keeping up with the jones''. The last thing I thought would ever bug me was a tiny inclusion. However, once I saw it thats all I could see. The color drained from my bf''s face. I think we was ready to come back and buy that ring! I know he wont now after I pointed it out and was like ''how can you not see that!'' We really cant afford to go up much. What is the next step? Looking at lots of diamonds until there is one that I am not bugged with? He is looking online now. He just sent me this one http://www.whiteflash.com/round/Round-cut-diamond-597464.htm Is there a catch? Its not that much more then the SI1 and SI2 ones we looked at today. We are kind of hesitant to buy online, but you all seem to think its wonderful

thanks!
Click to expand...
I have a suggestion your BF will love

Wait 10 years till your eyesight drops off and buy an I1
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If you would like to have an IF stone because it''s "mind clean," by all means, don''t let anyone talk you out of it! This is going to be your rock that sits on your finger every day, hopefully for the next 80 years (or until an upgrade
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). Get what makes you happy. But, it might be worth checking out other stones/clarity grades to pinpoint exactly where your happiness meter pegs.

But like others say, make cut as high a priority as any other criteria. It will dramatically affect your stone''s appearance.
 
Also Whiteflash and some other vendors offer some excellent non branded cut diamonds, which may suit you beautifully. Also if IF is an important part of your package, then go for it! If you seach with AGS0 cut graded diamonds and GIA Ex, then that makes finding a lovely diamond easier amongst the IF clarity. If you enjoy the hunt, then even some GIA very good cut can be worth considering.
 
Hello!

Following on from your BF''s point of view, it is also worth pointing out that even a FL or IF diamond is not completely flawless. It just means that there are none which can be seen at 10x magnification. If you looked at ANY diamond (even a FL one) under high magnification, you will see flaws.

My stone is VS2 and clean as a whistle to the naked eye. Like you, I couldn''t bear an inclusion I could actually see whilst wearing my ring. But I don''t walk round with my loupe all day... so eye clean is clean enough for me.

Like the other posters have said, getting the best cut is all-important to get the most spectacular stone. Whilst my stone is a VS2, it is also an Ideal cut, AGS0... which makes it look amazing.

You haven''t mentioned colour, so I''m guessing you don''t suffer too much from colour sensitivity? One thing to say is that it can be hard to judge the colour of stones in a jewellery shop, with all the spotlights they use to make the stones sparkle. Do a bit of online research and make sure you choose a colour you''ll be happy with.

I imagine if the clarity is of such concern to you, then you might well be the sort of person that doesn''t want to see to much tint in your diamond.

Karen x
 
Thanks for all the advice. I HATE that I could see them! I feel it is adding stress to the process that I did not intend :) I do not think I need "mind clean" at all but because of my reaction I think my bf does not want to risk it! lol! What do people consider good color? I do not seem to be very sensative to it, but my bf thought the H looked a tad yellow to him. It figures I am sensative to one aspect and he to another. lmao!
 
I totally understand your loathing for visible inclusions.. it would bug me every time I saw it!

Everyone has a preference for different coloured stones. I wanted mine to be icy white (it's set in 18ct yellow gold, and I love the look of an icy diamond against yellow gold)... but our budget meant that going for a D or an E was perhaps a bit much... so I got an F.

Some people prefer the slightly warmer tones of a G, H or I stone.

If the stone has some fluorescence it will make it look whiter, as will an amazing cut grade.
 
Date: 1/31/2008 6:55:49 AM
Author: JAMSRING
Thanks for all the advice. I HATE that I could see them! I feel it is adding stress to the process that I did not intend :) I do not think I need ''mind clean'' at all but because of my reaction I think my bf does not want to risk it! lol! What do people consider good color? I do not seem to be very sensative to it, but my bf thought the H looked a tad yellow to him. It figures I am sensative to one aspect and he to another. lmao!
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LOL welcome to my world but in reverse I am colour sensitive and can thus I prefer a D-F colour BF has freaky super vision and can see inclusions that others can''t :P. I personally don''t care about inclusions I could see with a loupe but any I could see with my eye would annoy me to no end.


My sweet spot is a Fvs2/vs1 or a completely eye clean D/sI1 (they are out there) :) Yours however could be different colour and clarity are very personal. Have you both had the opportunity to see really well (AGS0) cut D-H stones to test your tolerances? Maybe go have a look at Hearts on Fire stones they are (from what I have read here) close to what a WF ACA stones look to be :). Tightly cut stones will show less colour then ones with a losser cut :)

GL :)
 
Going from SI's to IF seems a little drastic to me. Step up to VS and YOU wont see anything with the naked eye, and no one else will either. If you get an excellent cut, as pointed out with his speakers of good quality speakers, people will know its a beautiful stone. PSers feel very strongly about cut. As for colour, a G colour is great and with a ex, ideal cut, face up can even look whiter. A great stone at a good price would be a VS1,2 G colour. You should more than be able ot find that in a decent price range
 
Do you know who graded the diamond you were looking at? That would make a big difference on being able to see inclusions. Some grading labs are a bit "soft" on their grading.
 
Date: 1/31/2008 11:10:21 AM
Author: MustangGal
Do you know who graded the diamond you were looking at? That would make a big difference on being able to see inclusions. Some grading labs are a bit 'soft' on their grading.
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I do not. We were caught up in the moment and we didn't ask about certification. We certainly would have before buying. We are now looking at the online buying route and I really like this one http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-129077.htm#
 
I just want to echo everyone's comment that cut matters more than anything else. For the first time ever, I asked my jeweler to show me three ideal cut Round Brilliant stones in an E, G, and J colour... face up, I couldn't tell the difference in colour, even between the E and J, all I could see was sparkle sparkle sparkle! Some people are more sensitive than others, but the point is that you gotta see lots of stones in person before you rule out a whole class of stones based on one example. And you know what else? The J stone was an S12, and because of the sparkle, I couldn't see the inclusion with my naked eye, only with the loup or from the back. While I am not saying you should go with an S12 or a J stone (though that is what I am going to get when the time comes to add another ring to my collection), I am saying you should track down a jeweler with GOOD QUALITY stones and ask to see a few samples of different colours and clarities next to one another outside of the settings. I wouldn't be surprised if the stone you saw with the inclusion was not cut very well, and you might not be so worried about this if you see some well cut stones. Real life is best!

Good luck, and relax! Just because you saw the inclusion in one stone doesn't mean you'll see one in another stone, they are all different! Take you time and enjoy the process!

DD
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I think the WF diamond your boyfriend found is absolutely great. While the decision to jump from SI to IF might seem like a knee jerk reaction, I believe that whenever buying a diamond, you should strive for the best perfection you can afford. Now, with that said, perfection is different for everyone---some think size, others color, and so on.... If you really feel that "clarity" is your sticking point, and you want an eyeclean gem and nothing short of that will do, then I believe that going with an IF is a great choice. I would never knock someone for putting in more money to achieve a higher quality stone...it''s just like buying a car...you find the model you want, and you might have to dole out more money for the upgrades like leather or navigation--but if those things are important to you, you''d happily do it.

My brother in law bought his wife a .75ct IF stone, and it really is special. Did he pay a premium for it? Sure. Did he go smaller than he would have had to if he wasn''t set on IF? Sure. But, for him, it was completely worth it. Just like my husband found the perfect diamond for me and paid for it...my brother in law did the same...just as your future husband is doing for you.

If you want a .72ct round, H color and it just so happens to be IF and completely in your budget....why wouldn''t you????
 
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