I need some help. Is this a good deal?

[Christina...]

The terminology used by different labs when they refer to cut grade can be confusing as well...for instance..

AGS grades their top cuts IDEAL GIA on the other hand calls them EXCELLENT, so if you chose AGS or GIA graded stones (the only labs we recommend) You will want either IDEAL or EXCELLENT. Also keep in mind other than princess cuts, fancy cuts are not currently graded for cut.

 

[bagelboy]

I would advise you to always buy the best cut possible. You really don't save any money on poorer quality diamonds. For a princess shape,GIA labels theirs as Excellent, AGS labels theirs as Ideal. The AGS lab grades diamonds using the light return. GIA lab does not.To properly evaluate light return you need an ASET photo of the diamond. Unless the vendor has a setup to take ASET photos,it makes comparing GIA princess diamonds to AGS diamonds difficult. As Auntkiki pointed out fancy shapes tend to show their body color much easier. Most people tend to buy princess shapes that are a bit higher on color,so using an H color as a cut off point is fine. But the best way to go look at some actual diamonds so you and especially your girlfriend can see how they look. I hope your girl already knows that a brillant round shape will out perform the princess shape diamonds. If she wants maxium sparkle, go with a brillant round. If your girl likes square shapes, please check out Good Old Gold website, just in case she wants something alittle different than a princess. On your previous diamond, 4 grand for a one carat is today a steal, so that have been about ten years ago. I think the ACA line of princess diamonds are an excellent choice plus they also have some very nice settings and excellent customer service. That would be my first choice. Since you have six months, I'm expecting you to get it right and make your girlfriend's eyes spin like roulette wheels when she sees the ring. Please note that quite few ladies here are very good at finding the perfect diamond and ring combos and very happy to help.

 

[built240]

Ok im a little confused on this. both links were posted on this thread. How could there be such a big difference.

http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8924/
so you have a 1.5 princess color I vs1 ideal cut for $9600

but here you have a 1.75 princess color I vsl excellent cut which is the same as ideal since its GIA
http://idjewelryonline.com/diamond_details1.php?id=32529756&shape=PR&pricefrom=0&priceto=500000&caratfrom=1.75&caratto=10.00&colorfrom=D&colorto=I&clarfrom=IF&clarto=SI1&polish=ANY&cert=GIA&symmetry=ANY&depthfrom=&depthto=&tablefrom=&tableto=&cut=Array&item_id=

and this one is $10,600 so you have a whole .25 more carat for only $1k more. What am i missing here?

 

[Gypsy]

Different pricing structures.


If you look at earlier in the post you'll notice I said the GOG is one of the most expensive vendors on here. They have a healthy mark up because they have a lot of overhead. They have a physical store in Long Island. And they also provide a lot of information on their stones without asking, part of their business model is to do comprehensive work ups. And on top of that, in my opinion, they do mark up some thing a lot (Jon will be along shortly crying about his anorexic margins as always I'm sure... but the fact is when I called ID for a a Gabriel and Company Diamonds and Sapphire Band ID had it listed on their site for 675 and when I called GOG the price was 875 for the exact same thing. And that's not the first time it's happened).

ID is the lowest priced vendor. The also have a brick and mortar store in NY but their website doesn't offer any information on individual stones you have to call him, identify yourself as a Pricescoper and ask for Yekutiel and then he provides you with with information he has. But he finds gorgeous stones at great deals.

Which is WHY I suggested you give him a call.

 

[built240]

Ok thanks. I was mainly asking b/c Im so new to diamonds I'm still learning. I was wondering if perhaps there was yet something else to look for that I overlooked. I contacted Whiteflash b/c they actually take returns and I have my previous ring to see what I could trade in for. They are very expensive. They want 15K for a 1.73c Vs1 color H princess cut. Grade ideal.

So ive been comparing different sites with prices,etc... to get a feel for all of this.

 

[SweetAsscher]

If you have a 1 ct ideal cut from WF you are better off selling it yourself or to a vendor or consigning rather than trading it in for what you paid. Prices especially for rounds have basically doubled. Would you mind posting the specs of your round?

 

[tyty333]

Here is a 2 carat for $10.9k. Its an si2 so you would have to check how eye-clean it is. Request an aset image
if you like the stone and post here.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1470689.asp

edit - might help for me to actually include the link!

 

[Gypsy]

Here is a 2 carat for $10.9k. Its an si2 so you would have to check how eye-clean it is. Request an aset image
if you like the stone and post here.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1470689.asp

edit - might help for me to actually include the link!

Whoa... who is saying that it is an SI2? Is the ring from WF originally? Where did you buy it. With the lack of knowledge you had walking in here I'd be surprised if you have a diamond of quality that any of the PS vendors would buy. But surprises do happen.

Please tell us about the previous ring. Everything you know.

 

[built240]

I need to get the paperwork on the old ring. Its in storage so thats going to be a nightmare. Its actually a princess cut not a round cut. I dont know why I thought it was a round cut. Its either a 1c center stone or just a tad over 1c like maybe 1.15 or so. The cut was ideal i remember that. And it was either a vs1 or vs2. The color im not sure on. Could be anything from H-J It was about $4k and it was purchased about 3.5years ago.

Also that 2c princess cut is interesting. I''d be curious to see how a si2 with an I color would look to the human eye if its ideal cut like that. Maybe thats the way i should go if I still want size. Go with a bigger stone thats ideal cut with a lower clarity? Seems the price drops a lot. the color I worries me a little. I need the stone to be very bright and white to the human eye only. Dont care at all how it looks under the microscope.

 

[Gypsy]

Did it have a lab report? GIA? Anything?

You'd be best off just seeing if your lady might be willing (WAY after your engagement) to have it set in a pendant for herself. Or you can get it appraised from a jeweler with an ASET who is independent and then with the appraisal in hand, see if ID will be willing to buy it from you and for how much.

Princesses haven't raised in price very much at all, regardless of the price hikes though. So you aren't looking at the diamond being worth a ton, and it might even be worth less than what you paid if it doesn't have a lab report and it ends up not being what it was sold to you as. So get that appraisal.

If you tell us what metro area you are in we can recommend an appraiser.

ETA: I thought your existing stone was the SI2... the 2 carat is the SI? It could be eyeclean, you'd have to have it sent to a vendor and see what they say when they inspect it. Also clarity is graded face up so if it's clean face up you might still see something from the sides, but creative settings can take care of that problem.

 

[built240]

Ok so my jeweler finally found me a center stone. Tell me if you think this is a good deal.

he said only round cut diamonds are graded ideal and princess cuts go off something else but i cant remember what he said. But here is the stats

1.75 princess cut
color J
VS1
excellent/very good

price $8000

Good deal?

 

[webdiva]

Ok so my jeweler finally found me a center stone. Tell me if you think this is a good deal.

he said only round cut diamonds are graded ideal and princess cuts go off something else but i cant remember what he said. But here is the stats

1.75 princess cut
color J
VS1
excellent/very good

price $8000

Good deal?

What certification does it have, can he provide an ASET/idealscope, what is the depth and other dimensions, do you have pictures, what's the return policy, etc? You need this information to compare apples to apples. You can't compare a 1.75 J VS1 EGL certified to a similar GIA stone. Look at your username, I'm going to guess that you're a car enthusiast and put it into your terms. You can compare genuine Nismo JDM parts to some crappy ass replicas, right? Same thing here.

 

[webdiva]

And here's a 1.71 J VS1 for $7470 - and this vendor can provide an independent analysis of the cut and performance with ASET and Idealscope images by their gemologist. Much like your jeweler, they "call" in stones from wholesalers. Online vendors like James Allen and Blue Nile charge about 5-10% over the wholesale price for the stone. And ordering out of state saves you tax.

If you're in LA (which I think you are from the first link), Blue Nile will list the same GIA stones as your jeweler has access to. Plug in the specifics on the stone, search for the one with the same GIA cert and you can see their markup. I did the same in LA. If you have your heart set on this stone and this vendor, make sure you have a rock solid return policy (getting cash back) and take it to a trusted appraiser. Better yet, have them arrange to take the stone STRAIGHT to the appraiser prior to payment for their opinion. Charles Carmona is in the same building as your jeweler...

Actually, if Beverly Jewelers is your jeweler - please look them up on google. Their BBB listing shows 16 complaints. There are numerous bad reviews on other sites about them. It's usually the people who used a "friend" who come on here with issues with their ring. The trusted pricescope vendors have a vested interest in keeping their online clientele happy.

 

[Gypsy]

And here's a 1.71 J VS1 for $7470 - and this vendor can provide an independent analysis of the cut and performance with ASET and Idealscope images by their gemologist. Much like your jeweler, they "call" in stones from wholesalers. Online vendors like James Allen and Blue Nile charge about 5-10% over the wholesale price for the stone. And ordering out of state saves you tax.

If you're in LA (which I think you are from the first link), Blue Nile will list the same GIA stones as your jeweler has access to. Plug in the specifics on the stone, search for the one with the same GIA cert and you can see their markup. I did the same in LA. If you have your heart set on this stone and this vendor, make sure you have a rock solid return policy (getting cash back) and take it to a trusted appraiser. Better yet, have them arrange to take the stone STRAIGHT to the appraiser prior to payment for their opinion. Charles Carmona is in the same building as your jeweler...

Actually, if Beverly Jewelers is your jeweler - please look them up on google. Their BBB listing shows 16 complaints. There are numerous bad reviews on other sites about them. It's usually the people who used a "friend" who come on here with issues with their ring. The trusted pricescope vendors have a vested interest in keeping their online clientele happy.

Awesome post Webdiva.

 

[Christina...]

And here's a 1.71 J VS1 for $7470 - and this vendor can provide an independent analysis of the cut and performance with ASET and Idealscope images by their gemologist. Much like your jeweler, they "call" in stones from wholesalers. Online vendors like James Allen and Blue Nile charge about 5-10% over the wholesale price for the stone. And ordering out of state saves you tax.

If you're in LA (which I think you are from the first link), Blue Nile will list the same GIA stones as your jeweler has access to. Plug in the specifics on the stone, search for the one with the same GIA cert and you can see their markup. I did the same in LA. If you have your heart set on this stone and this vendor, make sure you have a rock solid return policy (getting cash back) and take it to a trusted appraiser. Better yet, have them arrange to take the stone STRAIGHT to the appraiser prior to payment for their opinion. Charles Carmona is in the same building as your jeweler...

Actually, if Beverly Jewelers is your jeweler - please look them up on google. Their BBB listing shows 16 complaints. There are numerous bad reviews on other sites about them. It's usually the people who used a "friend" who come on here with issues with their ring. The trusted pricescope vendors have a vested interest in keeping their online clientele happy.

Awesome post Webdiva.

And if Blue Nile has it then Yuketiel and IDJ can get it and beat their price. win win

 

[built240]

And here's a 1.71 J VS1 for $7470 - and this vendor can provide an independent analysis of the cut and performance with ASET and Idealscope images by their gemologist. Much like your jeweler, they "call" in stones from wholesalers. Online vendors like James Allen and Blue Nile charge about 5-10% over the wholesale price for the stone. And ordering out of state saves you tax.

If you're in LA (which I think you are from the first link), Blue Nile will list the same GIA stones as your jeweler has access to. Plug in the specifics on the stone, search for the one with the same GIA cert and you can see their markup. I did the same in LA. If you have your heart set on this stone and this vendor, make sure you have a rock solid return policy (getting cash back) and take it to a trusted appraiser. Better yet, have them arrange to take the stone STRAIGHT to the appraiser prior to payment for their opinion. Charles Carmona is in the same building as your jeweler...

Actually, if Beverly Jewelers is your jeweler - please look them up on google. Their BBB listing shows 16 complaints. There are numerous bad reviews on other sites about them. It's usually the people who used a "friend" who come on here with issues with their ring. The trusted pricescope vendors have a vested interest in keeping their online clientele happy.

where is the link for the 1.71 for $7470?

 

[built240]

Ok so my jeweler finally found me a center stone. Tell me if you think this is a good deal.

he said only round cut diamonds are graded ideal and princess cuts go off something else but i cant remember what he said. But here is the stats

1.75 princess cut
color J
VS1
excellent/very good

price $8000

Good deal?

What certification does it have, can he provide an ASET/idealscope, what is the depth and other dimensions, do you have pictures, what's the return policy, etc? You need this information to compare apples to apples. You can't compare a 1.75 J VS1 EGL certified to a similar GIA stone. Look at your username, I'm going to guess that you're a car enthusiast and put it into your terms. You can compare genuine Nismo JDM parts to some crappy a$$ replicas, right? Same thing here.

Its EGL USA he said. He also wrote me this

John,

Here is a guide line to what some people consider poor to better cuts for princess cut diamonds. This only their opinions, as I mentioned on the phone there are no ideal cuts in fancy shaped diamonds. In fact it is disputed about what is an ideal cut in round diamonds, and they have the optimum symmetry for maximum reflection and refraction of light. The reality is that you have to physically view the diamonds to see how they sparkle.

 

[built240]

I cant post the chart for some reason but this was also in his email to me:

Is there a guideline I can follow for Princess cut diamonds.

No.

At least not one that I count as very reliable. Ideal is a concept the applies to round stones only, and even then it's hotly debated. In the case of princesses, there are a large number of differing opinions about what makes the cut of one stone better than another. It's considerably more complicated. Have you seen this stone? Have you seen other princess cuts in similar lighting environments?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA





Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:52 AM

That is exactly the problem. No one here can tell you how beautiful a diamond is going to be without seeing it based on a few average external measurements. Many diamonds measure the same but look completely different.
BTW rounds sparkle more than any of the other shapes if well cut.

 

[webdiva]

Doh, it's this:
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1464327.asp

Well it's a good thing you have Pricescope behind you! Sounds like he's trying to talk you into "trusting" him to find a good diamond. Even the most trusted vendors on PS provide backup information on suggested diamonds. Idealscope, ASET, Gemex, etc. You're in the right place to find a GREAT princess diamond in your price range. You deserve the best possible diamond for your money.

First of all - there are numerous threads about EGL. You are not getting a J VS1. Who knows what it is. So basically, you need to compare this diamond to K or lower colors, and lower than VS1 clarity to see apples to apples with GIA. If a diamond dealer has a GIA account and an EGL account, why would he send it to EGL? Because he feels like it'll be graded softer to a more marketable color and clarity range. I won't go into detail because this has been explained in other threads in the past couple days, in ways better than I just did.

There ARE light performance tests for princess diamonds. Here is an example: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8908/

Yes, you do need to see fancy cut diamonds in person - in many different light conditions. However, the ASET and Idealscopes narrow down the diamonds you want to see in person. That one I posted from Good Old Gold has a giant hole of light leakage in the middle. Compare this one : http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/9235/

Do you see the white blob in the middle of the first one compared to the full red in the 2nd one? The 2nd one is MUCH better. Take a look at the Gemex report and see how it rates the scintillation (white sparkly light), the fire (colored sparkly light), brilliance (brightness and contrast) - https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-brilliance-fire-scintillation..

Give us your budget, an idea of what setting you want and your diamond specs (VS1? J?) and we can find you what you want. Unless your jeweler is providing you with these types of reports or allows you to take this diamond to the appraiser (and discounts it even more) - it's like buying a car without a full vehicle history or test drive - you really don't know what you're getting.

 

[webdiva]

Here's a great quote from Christina in this thread: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/purchased-egl-round-diamond-this-weekend.174385/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/purchased-egl-round-diamond-this-weekend.174385/[/URL]
"You can definitley purchase a GIA EX EX EX or an AGS0 in a 1.25 for $8000 (depending of course on the color clarity combo). I know because I'm looking for one myself. EGL grades very softly so what you have is more like an I or J color and VS2 or SI1 clarity. Many newbies think that they are getting a deal when they buy EGL because when they look at a GIA stone with the same color and clarity the cost is higher, but this is NOT a true comparison of the two stones.

Diamonds are sell for what they are worth, so if your looking at (for example) and EGL H SI1 for $6500. and comparing it to a GIA H SI1 for $8000. it would appear that the EGL was a better value, UNTIL you consider that you are not comparing apples to apples. The EGL stone, if graded by GIA would likely come back as J (possibly K) and as low as an I1. Now when you grade the LIKE stone, both graded now by the GIA you are comparing J I1 to H SI1, and obviously the J I1 would no longer be a deal at $6500.

EGL does not sell their diamonds for thousands less than GIA or AGS because they are trying to save the consumer money. They are selling them for thousands less because they are worth thousands less. "

If you do take this diamond to Charles Carmona and get the correct grade back, is the jeweler willing to sell the diamond for the true value? Aka discount it?

 

[webdiva]

1.84 Princess VS1 - http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1483319.asp
$8k with PS discount

 

[slg47]

1.84 Princess VS1 - http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Princess-Diamond-1483319.asp
$8k with PS discount

I would not recommend that stone-it is not square.

 

[farmer gal]

I would pick this one, it will have excellent optics
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1445112.asp

 

[webdiva]

I would pick this one, it will have excellent optics
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1445112.asp

This is an awesome price for a Hearts & Arrows - Princess of Hearts type stone. This type of cut shows larger flashes of light like a round, versus the smaller pinpoints of light that a princess shows. As you can see by my avatar, it's what I chose. If it tests out well at JA, it's a great choice.

 

[built240]

OK wow I figured my guy would have found me a good cut and deal but apparently not. I heard egl israel v.s. egl usa are very different and the one he is telling me about is egl usa but still if it could be less of what it really is, then thats not the greatest deal.

OK im ready to purchase this now. If anyone has a good link here is what i need. The very first post has the setting she wants. But I think my guy can do that. As for the center stone it has to be princess cut and i'd like the biggest size possible with it still having a good cut. Im not picky on the color/clarity but i'd prefer it to be very white and clear and clean and sparkle. Budget is around $10-12K

 

[built240]

here is the spec on the ring guys. he said there are no ASET/idealscope on them. What do you think?

 

[slg47]

you can't tell anything from the numbers for princess cut stones-you really need images. also I would look for GIA or AGS.

 

[webdiva]

here is the spec on the ring guys. he said there are no ASET/idealscope on them. What do you think?

Move on unless you want to take this diamond to the appraiser for an independent eval.

For the setting, does it have to be 100% like that ring or just a square halo with thick shank?

 

[farmer gal]

I would still go with this diamond it is measuring just as big as the one you listen and is far superior in quality

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1445112.asp

Setting:
http://www.jamesallen.com/engagement-rings/pave/ring/item_412-9011.asp

 

[farmer gal]

Or you could send this diamond off to Mark at ERD
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/J-VVS2-Very%20Good-Cut-Radiant-Diamond-1445112.asp
and do a setting like this
http://www.engagementringsdirect.com/riviera-classic-cathedral-diamond-halo-engagement-ring-bpid-177-14.html