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I NEED ADVICE QUICKLY!! GOT TO DECIDE TONIGHT!

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Lincoln, you must be new here.....
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The party line here is G/H color, SI1 clarity. VVS is a no-no on this forum!
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Now...if you want to talk crown and pavilion angles, that is another question!

Kidding aside, this forum takes a pretty hard line on cut, but applaudes those who buy colors and clarity that save them $$ if they can't see the difference. (It should also be the same for cut, it's just harder to quantify what you will and won't see cut-wise without having stones in front of you.)
 
Yep, I'm the strong, silent type. Some would say lurker. Though I do believe my SI2 will kick your SI1. Just kidding.

What I found with the retail salesfolk, especially in the malls where the employees are a far cry from real jewelers, talking cut is tough. Lots of them got confused when depth/table % got questioned. They seemed to focus on weight as the only indicator of price.
 
This is fun. Another fact about me - I carry my ring in my pocket, waiting for the right opportunity to propose. It grows heavy, Samwise.
 
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On 5/27/2004 8:02:37 PM Lincoln wrote:

This is fun. Another fact about me - I carry my ring in my pocket, waiting for the right opportunity to propose. It grows heavy, Samwise.----------------
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Ohh...I like that! That's a close second to Sumi's proposal over breakfast cereal! I think that's real romance. Don't let it get too heavy. There have to be lots of romantic opportunities.
 
I went to a few R&H but this particular ring is in the golf mill mall.
 
hi mike,

we just all want to make sure you educate yourself enough so that when you DO go to a store, you'll know if what they're telling you is bullsh!t or not. i can't tell you how many times i've gone to different jewelry stores and i had to teach THEM how to present a diamond and what numbers actually mean. other times, i've just simply nodded my head, feigned ignorance and got the heck outta there.

beware! ordinary sales persons will tell you all kinds of bogus stuff. now i'm not suggesting that all sales persons are like this. but realize that many are and that's why educating yourself will help you know which sales person you can trust and which ones deserve the ol' heave-ho!

good luck to ya'!
 
When trying to ascertain my wife's preferences for her 10th anniv upgrade I dragged her into an R&H during a mall visit to see the Easter Bunny. The lighting was intense, the floor even had fiber optics in the tile! Everything sparkled amazingly, the funniest part was that my wife's existing pear (a pretty average stone now that I know what I know) looked better than everything in the shop.

I'm with everyone else. My concern isn't as much with the price but the cut. Not sure that the replacement policy is really very beneficial, you need to insure it anyway for loss so what does that policy get you anyway? As for cleanings / maintenance, I can't remember my wife ever having to go have the ring looked at. If you do buy online and get it set locally then that jeweler will probably work with you so you are still ahead, and if you move a visit to a new jeweler will be more than happy to make you happy so you come back at valentines, birthday, holidays etc. Again still ahead.

I wish you luck!
 
Mike,

Try contacting Isaac at Dimend Scaasi (www.dscaasi.com) on wabash st. When I bought my e-ring there, he was very patient and helpful. His prices are competitive to online prices that I have seen on pricescope. Also, he will show you the diamonds under firescopes, H&A viewer, and a magnifying scope (up to 300X) on a huge computer monitor. He's located in the same building as PGS (professional gem science www.progem.com ). They are a well known appraisal lab. When I bought my diamond... it was great to just have Isaac sent the stone upstairs for a second opinion and everything checked out great. The color and clarity actually checked out 1 grade higher. I just ordered my wedding bands with him too so I'm a happy customer.

Anyways, just a suggestion. Good luck w/ everything.

Jim

PS. Iceman is the owner of Midwest Gems Corporation and he is a veteran poster here. I don't think his store is too far from the chicago area too (2-3 hours??) www.midwestgems.com
 
----------------On 5/27/2004 5:18:17 PM mikieguns wrote:

the reason why I like the mall chain is this:

... I also figure that a nationally known chain is not going to rip me off. Why tarnish that reputation? ----------------
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I hope you passed on the stone. How do you feel in the morning. This will be one of your biggest purchases of your life so don't rush it.

The stone was crap. First off, the depth was too high. The dimensions were 6.64 by 6.68 by 4.52. Take 4.52/6.66= 0.678. That's the depth. The depth should be no higher 62.5%. The people that cut the stone cut it poorly on purpose so it weighs more. If they had cut it properly, your 1.22 would have only weighed 1.06. With a high depth, you are paying for carat weight you cannot see. Although judging cut is more than the depth, the depth is one good basic indicator.

If there is a certification, there should be one grade for color and clarity... none of this H-I stuff. If you are buying a stone without a certification, and the jeweler can say it's H-I because judging can be difficult. However, always evaluate the price against the lower grade. You should evaluate that price, $6700 at 1.06 ct, I, SI2. How does it sound now?

If you don't want to buy online, that's okay. I was quite skeptical at first too, but I ended up buying online eventually. Shy away from national chains. They probably won't rip you off in the sense of getting molded plastic instead of a diamond, but they are quick to sell poorly cut diamonds to unsuspecting people.

Take a wee bit of time and read one of the previously mentioned tutorials. Learn about cut. Cut is the most important of the 4 C's, because it effects the diamond's sparkle the most, but it is never mentioned in mall stores. Ask the retailer at your stores, what is the quality of the cut, and she will respond: "All of our stones are ideally cut and hand selected by the owner" or "Oh, it's a round brilliant." Then ask her what the "crown height" of the stone is and she will have no idea what you are talking about. Almost all sales people have no idea about cut. Try it for a laugh.
 
My faves to the cut question are:

"We only sell ideal diamonds, not fakes"
"It's a princess cut"
"We only sell the best cuts"
"This is a, hang on a sec (looks down cert), VG/G cut which is as ideal as you can get"
 
I didn't buy!! I am going to check out some local jewelers tomorrow.
 
Yeah Mikey! Good luck in your search. .

Limey -- my favorite was when I asked for cut details the salesperson said "round". When I asked for more information, he said "57 facets". That was it -- there was no more info to be had.
 
good boy!!!
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And: "the reason why I like the mall chain is this:
... I also figure that a nationally known chain is not going to rip me off. Why tarnish that reputation?"

OK- that's EXACTLY why they can rip you off b/c uneducated consumers go in there and assume they carry great stones...but I find it's quite the opposite. They sell crap b/c they CAN and people continue to buy b/c they don't know a good cut when it hits them on the head!!

You're going to find a great stone!!!! Just not in the mall!
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There are plenty of ways to get cheap money. One is to take advantage of another credit cards offer to give you a low finance rate if you transfer a balance. Try taking out a consumer loan at the bank. Rates are fairly cheap right now. Explore your options.

But, don't go into deep debt. Save for the ring.
 
Ok I spent the last 2 days at some local downtown stores. you guys were right! what a difference. the people there are much more knowledgable and have better stones than the mall stores. and guess what?? I bought one!! Here are the specs:

1.21 carot, H SI1, GIA certified.

I don't have the other dimentions with me right now but they were good- something like 6.91 x 6.98 x 4.20.

Price? We nogotiated a little and I got it for $5600 and 10 months interest free. what do ya think? honestly tell me. I have 30 days to return for a full refund.

thanks again!!!!
 
Congrats Mikie - Post all the info you can...
Depth
Table
Crown Height/angle
Pavilion Angle
Girdle

essentially everything on the GIA certificate. Then people here will ask you to get a Sarin Report (I still don't know what that is.) Try using the cut advisor on the pricescope home page. Plug all your #s in and see what you come up w/
 
From the information you did post, it sounds a lot better. Notice how much bigger it is for the same carat weight. Your new stone would win the Pepsi Challenge against the old stone everytime.

The price is very good too. Even if the other specs on the cut aren't quite ideal, you should still have a good deal because the price is nice. As with any e-stone, you should have it independently appraised.
 
I'm glad you went to a real jeweler as opposed to a retail chain in a mall. Nobody here is trying to discredit a knowledgable jeweler - just trying to arm you with information. From here on in, I think the question is not what we think of it, but what you think of it. You are the one who will see it for a long time, and no matter what everyone here says, you are the one who must be satisfied. What's done is done, and there's nothing worse than having remorse for the rest of your life just because of what someone here says based on numbers. A 1.2ct, H/SI1 is certainly nothing to be ashamed of, and if it shines like crazy, congratulations. Also, if you do return it, understand that there may be a restocking fee which might persuade you not to. Post a picture if you can so we can see what you ended up with.
 
Ok here are the more detailed specs for you guys to review:

GIA Certified
Meas: 6.91 x 6.99 x 4.20
Weight: 1.21 carat
Depth: 60.4%
Table: 59%
Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick
Faceted
Culte: None
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Good
Clarity: SI1
Color: H
Flour: None
Comments: Additional clouds are not shown

I negotiated the price down a bit and they also said they would work with me to get similar to internet pricing. I ended up paying $5685. It was appraised at $8500. What do ya think??

I'll post a pic as soon as I can!
 
what- no feedback??? you guys are scaring me!!
 
Mike-

I can't comment on your diamond, because 1. I'm not an expert, and 2. you did not provide crown and pavilion angles on your stone. I suspect that's why you're not getting feedback -hard to tell much of anything without those angles. I'd suggest you go back to the vendor and request a Sarin report, then post that info, and see what you hear back.

On the other hand, I've asked for feedback on another diamond today too, but haven't had any... maybe the experts are all having too much fun in Vegas
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Mike, I'm not one to know a whole lot based on numbers alone. I bet you will get more feedback once you post pictures. You may want to start a separate thread then too. Sometimes people don't open threads that have been here for a while. They may not realize you've bought a stone.

From what I know about the measurements, your depth is within the ideal range and your table size is slightly over the ideal range. Crown and pavillion angles would tell us more.

In general(without doing a PS search for comparable stones), I think your price sounds great for a 1.21 carat diamond. I also think you chose a nice color and clarity...a good value while it is probably still white white and eyeclean.

Now, how about those pictures?!
 
hey mike,

congrats on taking the time to arm yourself with a little more education and finding someone who sounds like they can help you more. remember, knowledge is power.

it's true we need those crown and pavilion angles to make a better determination on this stone. also make sure it is eye-clean, meaning you can't see inclusions with the naked eye. if you see obvious visible imperfections, it's not eye-clean.

after all is said and done, though, if you look at the stone and you really like it, that's all that matters.

congratulations again!
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Err... *WE* need those angles, 'cause we can't see the stone. You can!
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Ever found one of those "ideal cut" pieces around? You can easily decide wether there is an obvious difference and wether it matters. That's the most anyone can tell and no matter what, it is your impression of these things that matters.
 
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That doesn't actually mean a whole lot UNLESS you buy it from a mall, methinks.

The appraisal I got on my gal's recent engagement ring was WAY higher that what I paid for it. I mean, WAY higher. It was 71% higher than what I paid for the ring. The certificate that came with the stone (IGI) listed it as 110% higher than what I paid for it!!!

Do you have any friends that have bought a diamond lately? Ask them for recommendations...UNLESS you are trying to be TOP SECRET, of course.

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ok thanks, I'll try to get a hold of those angle measures and let you know. I only wrote what was on the GIA cert. Oh- and yes the stone it is very "eye clean". You can't see any inclusions unless you pick up a loop!
 
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