I NEED ADVICE QUICKLY!! GOT TO DECIDE TONIGHT!

[adillus]

Need to more about the cut... At the very least, try to get depth & table percentages. Depending on the cut, these could be good deals or trash. In my experience, if a diamond seller doesn't take the time to tell you about the cut, it's usually not too good.

 

[adillus]

Insist on a GIA or AGS cert.

 

[dsong1]

hey mike, if there is one person you can listen to is me. read my other posts but i have tried twice with retail stores and both times have gotten screwed! my first experience was with Rogers and Holland and they tried passing me a 1.0 ct, E VS1, IGI for $4600 including tax. However, after people helped me on this site, they said the cut was terrible! If i have learned anything on this site is that cut is more important than color or clarity.

anyways, then i went to christian bernard in woodfield and he basically did a "bait and switch" with me and i'm trying to get my money back.

after all this, i finally looked to one specific vendor on pricescope and she has been amazing! she accomadates to all my needs and keeps in touch w/ me with all the kinds of diamonds i want. and i just might have found the diamond i want!!! anyway, it's still up to you but you cant beat the service they give you compared to malls and stores!

let me know if you have questions since i do live in chicago land area.

 

[Giangi]

I think that those split-grades are used in jewelery reports, meaning that the stone was graded mounted and not loose. Of course it's going to be less accurate than a normal diamond report, where the stone is examined loose. Looking at your list, it looks like there are some grossly overpriced stones, like the $6,000 1ct I/SI 2, and some more competitively priced ones. In order to make a first selection we absolutely need to know all the nunmbers you can get: table, depth, crown, pavilion, girdle and culet.

 

[verticalhorizon]

Mikie,

If you lined up all those stones, except for the 1.22 and 1.27, and you just looked at them, they'd all look pretty similar.

If that's as far as you want to go, choose the sparkliest one with the lowest price as the variation in size is indistinguishable. The clarity probably unnoticible if you're uncertain of what to look for (like I was when I started).

But if you want to make the best use of your money, you have to dig deeper. Look at the certs not just the numbers they give you. Peg them down to specifics like H color OR I color.

GOG 1.01ct H SI1

You'll see from this example's cert, that it goes into much greater detail. This is the info you'll need to make a good decision.

 

[adillus]

By the way, kudos on coming here BEFORE you shelled out money on that first diamond. I did my research after-the-fact and lucked out that the store had a good return policy.

Like you, I didn't want to buy online and went to dozens of traditional stores in LA. None of them beat online venders. None of them even came close. I ended up buying online from a store with a 30 day return policy, using a credit card with fraud protection insurance. Completely no-risk.

If you really have to buy traditional store, try to find one with a price-match guarantee and bring a printout from on online vendor. I personally would rather give my business to the vendor offering me the best price up-front. But if you want to deal with someone you have to haggle with, this works.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/27/2004 3:02:43 PM mikieguns wrote:





Hi people! This web site is great. I have been shopping around for an engagement ring for a few weeks in the Chicago area. I found one at a Rogers & Hollands in a mall that I really like and they are offerring at a discounted price to me (month end). Is this a good deal?? It is a bit voer my budget so I am reluctant! I got to decide tonight so please- I am looking for some advice quick!! thanks in advance. I really appreciate it: Here are the specs:

1.22 carot, H-I color, SI1/SI2 clarity, IGI certified
measurements: 6.64 by 6.68 by 4.52

thanks so much!!
----------------

Mike, I'd pass on this diamond.

What people here are trying to tell you is that CUT is the most important feature of a diamond, and the information above doesnt' give you any information about cut. Cut also greatly impacts price.

This diamond is NOT well cut just by the numbers. It measures 6.65mm; a well-cut 1.22 ct. stone should measure around 6.95-7.00mm or so. What does this mean? You're paying for the weight of a 1.22 carat stone but getting a stone that measures like a 1.05 ct or so. Not a good deal.

Also, the point R/T are trying to make.....a diamond cannot be an H/I....it's either an H or it's an I. Similary, it cannot be an SI1-2; it's either an SI1 or an SI2. Each of these factors has a HUGE impact on price, too, by the way.

It would be like me saying to you, "well, the car for sale is a Ford/BMW......with/without air conditioning." That would be impossible. Same for the diamond.

There is a fool born every minute who buys that line about "the sale ENDS tonight"......don't be one of those fools. For your budget, you could get an EXCELLENTLY cut, H, SI1 diamond that blows away anything you've seen at the mall.

 

[mikieguns]

but where?? (and don't say online!)

 

[Shay37]

Mike, top of this page, Glittergal gives the name of the one the sponsored vendors (terminology may not be exactly correct) that is in your area. She gave the name and the address. They have a physical store you can enter and browse in. Check it out. (the post I mean)

Shay

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/27/2004 4:58:39 PM mikieguns wrote:





but where?? (and don't say online!)
----------------

Why don't you read the tutorials here and *learn* what makes a beautiful diamond. Pay particular attention to cut.

Then you can go into your local small jewelers (NOT the mall chain stores, but small jewelers) and tell them what you're looking for.

 

[verticalhorizon]

Plenty of places, but you have to look and you have to know what to look for.

Ask for local referrals from your other married friends or co-workers. Research what makes a great diamond and then go in to buy. I 'window' shopped for probably 2 months without the intention to buy, just so I could get a feel for what I was looking at.

Since you have a big decision to make by the end of the day, it looks like you've made up your mind already and you just want to feel better about your decision. We all do it, that's partially what this forum is for.

You've heard everyone's review, now it's up to you. Please let us know how it goes or if there's anything else we can help with.

 

[adillus]

Another poster mentioned S.A. Peck & Co a little while back. They at least they tell you what you need to know about their diamonds. I'd start there if I were you. you won't get the best deal ever, but you probably won't want to cry after the appraisal either.

 

[noobie]

mikie,




I respect you decision to not buy online, but could you help us with your reasons? Knowing what you are after is going help us help you. Are you under a time pressure (other than this end of month sale)?




BTW, I must admit that I agree with everyone else regarding this ring. I personally wouldn't buy it, since I know that I could get a much bigeer and better stone for the price, both online and at some local stores. And as others have said, some of the best stores are the smaller family run ones, not the chains. Personally I've never come across anythingI would buy at a chain.

 

[mikieguns]

the reason why I like the mall chain is this:

I like the financing options (no money down, 12 months interest free), I like the lifetime gurantee- although I need to bring the ring back twice a year for inspection/cleaning to keep it. I also like the fact that there are stores all over the place. I relocate every few years for my job. I also figure that a nationally known chain is not going to rip me off. Why tarnish that reputation? (let alone the stock price). any thoughts? the local jewelers on diamond row I have been too. Although their prices seem a little cheaper- I do not get the finance and insurance options offerred at a mall chain.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Read the Tutorial here and at www.goodoldgold.com and at www.niceice.com. Learn what you need to be looking for. Table size, diameters, total depth, girdle thickness, etc. Get out and look at accurately graded, loose diamonds. Diamonds with GIA and AGS Certs. Get a feel for the color range that appeals to your eye. Check your local phone book and find Diamond Brokers in your area. Visit as many as you can. Take notes on diamonds that you see that you find the most appealing. Write down the hard specs and crunch the cut adviser when you get home to see how the diamonds score. Check the pricing of comparable diamonds you see listed online to diamonds you see in person. You can make an informed buying decision locally using information you gain here.

Many of the diamonds listed on Price Scope are available to your local diamond brokers. White Flash, Nice Ice, Good Old Gold, Dirt Cheap Diamonds, and others do maintain physical inventories of diamonds on hand. Many of the diamonds also come off a "List". Very much like a Realtor's Multiple Listing, the wholesalers list inventories of diamonds available for sale. The Vendors pick up the info and list diamonds for sale. Each Vendor has their own mark-up, or operating cost they add to their cost of a diamond. A local diamond broker can have diamonds brought in off the List "on memo" for you to view live and in person.

 

[verticalhorizon]

Take a look at some of those financing policies. For one, I wouldn't suggest going into debt over an e-ring.

Second, if you exceed the specified interest free period, often times the interest rate is something like 26% and it's retro active to the date of sale. So if you're going to pay it off in 6 or 12 months, be sure that you do.

The lifetime warranty?... I've heard that too. They'll replace the rock for whatever reason? I'm sure they will, but they also have control over what they replace it with and you'll have no choice in the matter. I can't believe that they'll really replace it with a decent stone. And anyway, that's what the insurance is for.

Do you have to pay for the 2x a year cleaning and inspection or is that part of it?

To me, it sounds like the undercoating option for your car.

 

[pqcollectibles]

----------------
On 5/27/2004 5:18:17 PM mikieguns wrote:

the reason why I like the mall chain is this:

I like the financing options (no money down, 12 months interest free), I like the lifetime gurantee- although I need to bring the ring back twice a year for inspection/cleaning to keep it. I also like the fact that there are stores all over the place. I relocate every few years for my job. I also figure that a nationally known chain is not going to rip me off. Why tarnish that reputation? (let alone the stock price). any thoughts? the local jewelers on diamond row I have been too. Although their prices seem a little cheaper- I do not get the finance and insurance options offerred at a mall chain. ----------------

Maul stores do offer finance options, but you can do as well by using a Credit Card if you want to purchase "on time" as it were.

Any jeweler will do a free cleaning and inspection as a service to you.

As far as a lifetime guarantee,...... Ring companies, such as Vatche and Tacori, warranty the ring as long as they do all the work. Some Vendors offer life-time upgrades on the diamond. You spend $5000 today and you can apply that $5K 10 years from now to the purchase of a bigger diamond, or more expensive diamond. Just spend $1 more and you've upgraded. Sooooo, if you buy a H, SI today, and you want the same size H, VS later, that's an upgrade. Many Maul stores and local jewelers will require you to spend double or triple your original purchase price on a trade-in upgrade.

 

[dsong1]

retail does try to screw you! read my post above.

rogers and hollands
christian bernard (woodfield mall)

 

[noobie]

----------------
On 5/27/2004 5:18:17 PM mikieguns wrote:





the reason why I like the mall chain is this:

I like the financing options (no money down, 12 months interest free), I like the lifetime gurantee- although I need to bring the ring back twice a year for inspection/cleaning to keep it. I also like the fact that there are stores all over the place. I relocate every few years for my job. I also figure that a nationally known chain is not going to rip me off. Why tarnish that reputation? (let alone the stock price). any thoughts? the local jewelers on diamond row I have been too. Although their prices seem a little cheaper- I do not get the finance and insurance options offerred at a mall chain.
----------------

OK, I understand now. If you don't mind, here are some thoughts.

No money down and 12 months interest free. These things usually come with huge balloon interest rates after 12 months if you don't pay it off. Also, I think I could probably buy the ring you spec'd out for no more than $4,500. That leaves $2,000 to pay for interest on another financing alternative. I don't think a credit card would cost that much for 12 months (not that I'd advise using a CC to finance at all). Bottom line you could buy for less, take out a loan and still be further ahead.

Lifetime guarantee. What exactly are they guaranteeing? It's a diamond and some metal. Most jewelery stores will clean and inspect you ring for you for free. If repairs are needed to prongs they are very inexpensive and a minor job. I haven't needed any prong repairs yet.

Withe regards to reputation you should read dsong's post on his experience at Christian Bernhards, a medium to high end mall chain store. A big mall chain store is only as good as the person serving you and the quality is far more variable with these mall stores then good local jewelers.

Anyways, just trying to help. Good luck with your decision and purchase.

 

[noobie]

Wow, PQ and VH .... the similarity of thought process is scary. Is leonid brainwashing us?

 

[adillus]

----------------
On 5/27/2004 5:18:17 PM mikieguns wrote:

the reason why I like the mall chain is this:


I like the financing options (no money down, 12 months interest free), I like the lifetime gurantee- although I need to bring the ring back twice a year for inspection/cleaning to keep it. I also like the fact that there are stores all over the place. I relocate every few years for my job. I also figure that a nationally known chain is not going to rip me off. Why tarnish that reputation? (let alone the stock price). any thoughts? the local jewelers on diamond row I have been too. Although their prices seem a little cheaper- I do not get the finance and insurance options offerred at a mall chain. ----------------

Buying from a chain is a bad idea. They don't have a good reputation... just a lot of uninformed customers that pay too much.

The guarantee is bogus. While they do cover the stone for defects and/or falling out of the setting, they usually don't cover loss or theft, so you'll have to get insurance anyway (which covers everything). The guarantee is mostly just a way to get you back in the store every six months so they can try to sell you something new. At this point you're buying a diamond, not insurance.

As for the financing... just save before the purchase. This is a luxury item. There's no reason to buy something like this without the money to pay for it in hand. Take the time you spend saving to educate yourself about diamonds. There is a lot to know.

 

[uclaure]

Here's another option for you, especially it you are weary of buying sight unseen. Professional Gem Sciences, Inc. is an independant appraiser in Chigago. The majority of ps vendors would be willing to ship a diamond to them for you to inspect before shelling out any money. As far as financing this purchase, personally I wouldn't want get into debt. If you don't have the money to pay for it up front, maybe you should wait a few months and save untill you can make the purchase without financing. You are going to be spending a lot of money on this ring, there is no need to make it more expensive with finance charges. Just my .02

 

[pearcrazy]

Guarantee the ring against what?? It's a diamond not a car, it doesn't require a tune up. You shouldn't have to be required to take the ring to them every time for a check. It won't cost you that much to find a local jeweler to do the same, in fact mine checks and cleans mine for free whenever I walk in on a whim. I had him repair a prong and he charged me $25. What happens if you go longer than twice a year? Is your warranty void?

Also, beware there is NO SUCH THING AS 12 MONTH INTEREST FREE FINANCING!! The cost of such "free" financing is built into the cost of the stone. Case in point, I went into a furniture store to buy a sofa. They offered 12 months free financing. I asked the price for cash and was told by the dipwad salesman that it was the same. I promptly turned my back to leave and was stopped by the manager who said he'd give it to me at 15% off. So there you go.

Don't let them rush you into making a decision by the end of the month. Do you really think that if you walked in there on June 1st that they wouldn't sell you the ring for what it was offered for the day before? Maybe on sirloin steaks but not on high ticket items like diamond rings. I don't think they'd let a customer willing to shell out over 6K walk out the door. If they are then they are idiots.

If you factor in the cost to finance a diamond over 12 months on a credit card at say 15% I still think you'll come out ahead pricewise and can take your time and end up with a better stone in the long run. Besides I guarantee that the fine print says if you go over 12 months to pay that the rate goes up to an outrageous amount like 22% and will be on the entire purchase added back into the balance.


Don't be pressured into a quick decision about a major purchase.

 

[verticalhorizon]

RE: brainwashing

Noobie and PQ...

maybe PS is like the Stepford Wives (orig version not sucky new one)... and we're all slowly being replaced by robot versions of our former unknowledgeble selves?

It's like stepford diamond husbands and wives!

 

[noobie]

Mike,




I hope you don't take the posts here the wrong way. They are really trying to help you get the most beautiful diamond for your money an dnot get taken advantage of. I do hope that they have been helpful in your decision.




Good luck whatever you decide.




VH: Hmmm, maybe they should create a Stepford Cut diamond. It should be perfect.

 

[mikieguns]

I appreciate all the feedback. Since not ONE person has encouraged me to go back to R&H to buy this ring, I am not going! (don't you all feel guilty!!). just kidding. I am going to do a little more shopping around before I buy. and you are right- chances are that if they really want to sell me this ring, then will still offer me the "end of month" sale next week. I just called them and although they did say that they can only gurantee it through tonight, the person did say to call them tomorrow to check! they said it all depends on a pool of money they have and who might come in and buy some stuff!

 

[GlitterGal]

----------------
On 5/27/2004 6:01:42 PM verticalhorizon wrote:

RE: brainwashing
maybe PS is like the Stepford Wives (orig version not sucky new one)... and we're all slowly being replaced by robot versions of our former unknowledgeble selves?
----------------

VH,

Please say it isn't so!

What would PS be without the great pizzaz of our unique personalities?

A forum of diamond drones?

Kindest regards always,
Linda

 

[dsong1]

hey mike, you mind telling me which R&H you went to?

 

[Lincoln]

Mike - I'm with everybody else on here - hold off a minute and catch your breath. You would think we all sit in the same room, ganging up and tricking you into buying online. But we're not. Here's my experience:

Last week I received a .94ct round E, SI2(extremely eye clean), 56%/61% GIA for under $3,600 from an online vendor. I'm pretty happy with it - I'll go toe to toe with any 1ct stone you can show me from the mall.

I, too, was new to buying until a recently engaged friend directed me to PS. After only one night reading threads, until my eyes were red, I had the knowledge I needed to hit some local jewelry stores (I'm not going to slam any of the chains I went to, but I did them all.) I left each one scratching my head that they could move jewelry at those prices. Poor folks buying there had no clue.

Anywho, I talked to an independent gemologist in town about appraising my diamond, and we concluded that since my ring came with a certified GIA appraisal, that would serve as the insurance cost. The only other reason to have it inspected is to make sure the diamond had the same specs as the cert, and the gemologist said that after seeing thousands of diamonds from my online vendor, he has yet to see one that wasn't top notch... I told him thanks, that's all I needed to hear and I passed on the inspection. I'm also not interested in seeing my stone magnified or pictures of its imperfections - it's eye clean now and I don't want to know where the inclusions are. It can only make it worse... All - I'm not recommending that you skip the appraisal, I bring it up to illustrate that the gemologist flat out said he's never seen a bad stone come from this vendor, and I want to alleve some of Mike's fears of buying online. One other note on this topic - take the appraised value with a grain of salt. It carries no weight with anybody but the insurance company. Everybody has a ring that's worth twice what they paid, not to burst your bubble.

But, I understand that the piece of mind you are getting is worth the price of buying locally. Nobody is going to be able to tell you to consider buying online, but I think if you sit still for a few days, your anxiety will fade.

 

[Lincoln]

...one other thing, and this pertains to all the forums. You're going to hear more diamond grading tech talk than you ever cared to hear. You will come to believe that your health depends on the diamond's color and, even though neither you nor I can see the difference between a G and an H, you will be convinced that you have to have a G. You may even conclude from reading some of the posts that only a peasant would go below VVS2. Be careful. Evaluate each diamond individually. Grading differences are usually very hard to detect from one grade to an adjacent grade, even though the cost may be significant. If you like a stone, buy it. Just make sure you can't buy it somewhere else for less... And remember that it's the CUT that will compensate for the other shortcomings.