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I know it''s cheating...

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bugaboos

Rough_Rock
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Mar 5, 2003
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9
I know it's cheating...

...but I really want to have my cake and eat it too. So if any of the experts can weigh in on the feasibility of my plan, I would really appreciate it:

1. Buy the smallest traditional engagement ring at Tiffany's with blue box ($1000 or so).

2. Find a great deal on a rock on the net ($20,000 or so).

3. Get a local jeweler to "upgrade" (switch out) the stone, extend the prongs, do whatever else is necessary ($??? but I don't expect it would be more than a couple hundred dollars).

I really want to give her the blue box, but I don't want to drop $20,000 plus at a place where I know I will be paying $6,000 plus too much before I walk in the door.

So what do you think? Can I have my cake and eat it too?

TIA!

Bugaboos

(PS. In case you are wondering, I know she doesn't care about the Tiffany's name. But I also know she'll be floored when she first sees the ring in box, and I honestly don't think her learning about the $20,000 upgrade will cause too much displeasure.)

***EDIT***

Thank you to everyone for your insightful comments and suggestions.

One recurring question is, would I tell her? Answer: of course! As many of your responses pointed out, to even consider not telling her would be a serious breach of trust, especially given the significance of the ring.

The original scenario I had in mind went as follows--

Day of proposal (perfect surroundings, perfect time of day, blue box):
- She: Yes!


Next Day:
- She (feeling guilty): Wow this ring is really nice. The diamond's so much bigger than my friends'. Was it really expensive? Are you totally broke? Should we return it and use the money for something else, like a house or a trip? What if I lose the ring?

- Me: Actually the ring started out as a Tiffany's ring with a much smaller diamond that was pretty inexpensive. I then got a *great* deal on the net on a big loose diamond, and switched in the bigger stone. The diamond in there is actually appraised at twice the cost, so think of the ring as a good investment...

- She (with much less guilt): Well if it's a good investment, then maybe I should hang on to it...


Well that was the ORIGINAL scenario. Given the series of deep negative reactions to my idea, I am rethinking the whole thing. To risk such a reaction from my girl--even if the risk is very small--would definitely not be worth the savings to me.

So I think now the new plan is that I will look for a nice ring at Tiff's in the $20-25K range and price out the same ring over the net. If the premium for the Tiffany & Co. name is only a few thousand, I guess I'll be the sucker that pays for it. Darn it, I really want it to be perfect (including that blue box).
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
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2,530
What ct range are you looking at? I don't know if prongs made to hold a 0.20 or so can be adjusted up to 2ct or even more...


EDITED TO ADD:

BTW, I agree 100% with Hest... Better you take a true Tiffany, maybe 20 or 30 points smaller, but it will be the real thing and not a compromise...

Giangi
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
Uh, as a woman I'd be very unhappy if I found out you'd done that. If I wanted Tiffany, I'd want the entire thing to be Tiffany. And odds are, sometime during your marriage she's going to find out and there'll be h*ll to pay.

Either get it all at Tiffany, or none at Tiffany.
 

bugaboos

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
9
Giangi: Yeah that would be the range. I haven't asked her explicitly but I would guess that she wouldn't want anything so big as to look tacky (e.g. heavier than two carats).

Rank Amateur: Mainly because I am a cheap b******. Maybe I will end up spending the entire budget at Tiffany's, but at this stage I am still looking into schemes may give me better value.

Hest88: Oh I would definitely tell her right off the bat. If she is upset then I'll have it re-set in a generic setting. I think the chances of her being upset are slim--it's not like a loose Tiffany's diamond is any different from a loose diamond from another source, and it is still a $20K diamond which for us is a lot--but maybe I'm being totally guy-centric about it.
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Hey Buga,

see my edited post
. I suggest you to take a smaller stone, but the REAL THING...
 

Heyjud

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
243
Deception simply isn't the way
To start your married life

Select the diamond and the ring with love
She'll be proud to be your wife.

She'll be blown away by your choice too
And never miss that box of blue!
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Sorry I have to disagree with everyone, and say do whatever you want! From your original post, it sounds like you plan to tell her what you did anyway, so its not like you are keeping it a secret, you just want that initial look of surprise on her face.

Tiffany is overpriced, I would NOT drop the $20k there because all that will get you is something like a 1.25c ring..not impressive. For $20k online you could get around a 2c well cut stone with no color and VS quality. MUCH better!


Keep in mind that if you do this plan you will probably have to replace the head of the ring, which means it will not be an original Tiffany. The jeweler will probably not be able to resize the head enough to fit a 2.0c stone vs a .20c or whatever the $1k will buy you at Tiffany. So that will give you a Tiffany BAND with the inscription but no Tiffany head or stone.

OR if you just want to give her the blue box, buy one on eBay! They are like $5 or something ridiculously cheap. People sell them all the time.

But whatever you choose, I like your imagination! So just be sure whatever you do, you come clean with her, and she may get a kick out of having this funky Tiffanstein ring because all her friends will see is OOOH it has the Tiffany inscription. She may want to keep your little secret and you two can have a huge giggle. Or she may not like the idea of the Tiffanstein ring...but you know her better than we do!

Good luck!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Mara, if he plans to tell her that the ring is not the real thing, then I agree with you... I assumed he wanted her to believe it was a 100% Tiffany's. I don't know... Bugaboos, what were you planning to do?
About the box, once again Mara is right... Many ebay vendors sell they at super extra cheap prices...
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Yes I assumed he was planning on telling her about the little switcharoo when I read his 'PS' where he says he doesnt think she will be too upset to learn about the $20k upgrade. But maybe I was mistaken? Hopefully he lets us know!
 

Giangi

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 23, 2003
Messages
2,530
Hopefully, he's planning on telling her the whole story! What if she discovers the story after 20 years of marriage???
Just kidding.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
How about this for a compromise:

Buy the cheap Tiffany ring and leave the .2ct in the setting. Propose to her with that. Then, as soon as she says yes, tell her that you have another surprise for her and pull out the 2 ct stone. Then showing them side by side, you can ask her, hmmmmm . . . do you think the ring would look a little nicer with this 2 ct stone? If she says yes, then you have have the ring upgraded. If she says no (yeah, like that's going to ever happen!), then you can put the diamond in a pendant or sell it and go on a nice vacation together.

This way, everything is upfront, and she makes the decision . . . and looking at the stones side by side, you have a pretty good idea what the decision will be . . .
 

billv45

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 25, 2003
Messages
36
Now I'll get toasted for saying this, but it won't be the first time, so here goes. You're using male logic which is very sound and I try to use it everyday BUT do not use it for this. She will be using female logic to evaluate your "gift" and if she wanted a ring from Tif's suck it up and give her a ring from Tif's. If she ever finds out what you did you'll be toast, even if it makes perfect sense (and a few dollars!) This is the old grocery store flowers vs FTD thing raised to the Nth level. If they think the flowers came from the Piggly Wiggley they're in the trash in three days. The same flowers delivered by some geek in a funny uniform stay on the table for three days after they're dead and then get hung upside down in the closet to dry out for posterity. I don't understand it, no man does, just accept it and make her happy even if it doen't make sense to you. Find out what SHE wants and give it to her. If she knows you're "thrifty" that 6K you dropped at Tif's will buy something more valuable than their entire inventory combined.
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
598
Ditto to most of the above great advice.

Your playing with fire and it's only a matter of time till you get burnt!!
 

shutinup

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
17
I would go with the lie. Big risks equal bigger rewards. It is actually a pretty good Idea, but I would figure out a way to not spend the original 1000 on the cheapie from tiffany. You could have someone knock it off for less. Think how much happier you will be when you get a divorce.
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
Nothing says I love you and commit to spending my life with you than lying about your engagement ring.

truely, truely, sad
 

Mara

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
31,003
Wait everyone..I think that he IS planning on telling her what he did. That is the vibe I got from the PS he added at the end of the original post...if that is the case...I think it's fine as long as he knows the risks (high!). I don't think he is planning to LIE to her about what he did. I could be wrong but that is not the vibe I got.

Maybe we should wait for him to respond before we crucify him for 'lying'!

My 2 cents...
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
----------------
On 3/5/2003 4:23:14 PM Mara wrote:

Maybe we should wait for him to respond before we crucify him for 'lying'!
----------------
Ok, I'll crucify him for thinking of the idea in the first place


On a more serious note, Bugaboos, I can guarantee that showing her a ring, any ring, in any box, anywhere, will still be one of the most special experiences she'll ever have. Buy a ring you love, and give it to a girl you love more.
 

bugaboos

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
9
Abort! Abort!

Thanks to everyone for your comments and suggestions.

I have given up on my original scheme. Most likely I will buy the complete ring at Tiffany's.

I explain my reasons in more detail in an edit to my original post at the top of this thread.

Thanks again, everyone.
 

Lugus

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 17, 2003
Messages
213
----------------
On 3/5/2003 5:11:41 PM bugaboos wrote:

Abort! Abort!----------------
LOL, sry if I gave you a hard time in my posts. If it's that important to you or her, then spending the extra money is worth it. Good job on your decision.

The difference is going to be more than a few thousand at the price you're looking in, if you look at tiffany's. Expect that you can get a stone for about $7,000 less online if you spent 20k at tiffany's, everything else being equal. Just rough estimates, but be prepared, and let us know what the differences really are.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
Thanks for the update, and please let us know what you decide. I was a little confused too, when you said you *were* going to tell her but buy the box anyway. That seemed pointless.
 

Lanee

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jan 29, 2003
Messages
534
Why does the blue box mean so much? If it's merely pretention, is it that important to your fiance? If so, it's so much more pretentious to tell your friends about the custom work you had someone do especially for your fiance, because before I found these forums, I though only well-off people could afford small jeweler shop prices.

My sister's fiance had her ring made by Michael Jordan's jeweler and when she went into Cartier on Michigan Avenue (I live in Chicago) and told them she just wanted to check out settings because she was having her ring made by MJ's jeweler, that asked what her jewelers name was and when she told them, they started treating her much better.
Matthew's (her fiance) luck is that he is good friend's with the jewelers son. They grew up together.

Not only for the pretentious factor but, it also seems more romantic because you weren't going to settle for something preassembled for your FF. You invested that much more time into your decision and purchase for your special girl.

If you don't think she cares about where the ring is from but just think that the blue box is worth something as a special affect, try buying one on E-bay. Someone suggested that in another thread. You can explain to her that you wanted to buy her a Tiffany ring but got a much larger diamond of equal quality (or better and more brilliant) for less so that you have that much more to spend on your honeymoon or wedding but you knew her heart would pop out of her chest when she saw the box.
 

Caratz

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jun 4, 2002
Messages
222
Lanee, I absolutely agree with you. I think that personally designing the ring and having it custom-made is far more romantic, personal, interesting, and unique that going for the name brand cookie cutter syles (even if they do come from Tiffany) . . . but I guess the vast majority of people think otherwise.
 

Beith

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Messages
21
It is a terrible idea. Once, I was going to buy a ring from a friend's colleague. The ring was stamped Tiffany in the mounting. The stone came with GIA certificate and was very nice (radiant cut, 2.01 ct, VS1, F color). I took it to the Tiffany store to confirm that and the representative checked it out and claimed that it is not one of theirs. First, all of their rings have S/N stamped on the mounting and all the data of the ring are kept on file for future validation. Also, they said they could tell from the workmanship of the mounting and prong setting.

There is no way you can get away with a small diamond from Tiffany and changed out the diamond. The prongs won't fit and you'll need to change that too which will be a dead give away when your future wife brings the ring back for a clean up. It is even worse when they try to trace the S/N and it does not match the description.

I did not buy that ring after all but a visit to Tiffany really enlightened me. Their rings are listed at least 3 times
as compared to internet or the wholesale Rapport price. With Tax and everything, it is a total rip off. A ring similar to my friend's was selling at $45,000 at Tiffany when I know I can get it in the L.A. Jewelry Mart for $16,000 with GIA Cert.

Tiffany is just a name and illusion. I wouldn't drop that kind of money for a name or a blue box. Use the extra money and buy her a bigger diamond. Tiffany rings, unlike Gucci/Prada bags, don't have their logo stamped in places where everybody can see it. Without these highly visible logos, I doubt if even the Gucci/Prada name brand companies can pull much business. A bag is a bag, whereas a diamond should be just a diamond, it is the value and the content that counts.
 

pqcollectibles

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Feb 22, 2003
Messages
3,441
I kinda liked your idea. Everyone has their own twist on the perfect proposal scenario. But, as others have pointed out, it is not technically feasible, and there could be a "Tiff" in the future to deal with for altering an "established" masterpiece.

Here's yet another thought on your already beaten and dead horse.

I read/heard somewhere, when picking "THE" ring, the woman should pick the set and man should pick the stone. I forget the logic quoted as to why she does/he does. While there would be no surprise in the ring for her, except the gorgeous diamond you will select, you will both be involved in the process, and happy with the result.
 

divergrrl

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
2,224
Ok, here's a small twist, with a few changes,courtesy of the "surprise" my now-hubby pulled (and quite a delightful one, I might add)when he proposed.

*************

It was our two year anniversary, I had a *gut* feeling that he was going to propose...we'd been on vacation, and the timing was perfect....he pulls out a jewelery box. But wait, its so much bigger and flatter than a ring box, could my intuition been wrong? I open it, and it is a beautiful necklace that matches the earrings he gave me for Christmas. Assuming my intuiton wrong, I just enjoy a lovely gift to commemorate our 2nd anniversary.

He smiles...a cute little mischevious smile, and hands me another box...*POW* Let the happy crying begin!

**************

Ok, here's the twist...you could get her a gift from Tiffany's and not waste 1k there...really get her something nice. The line of Jewelry from Elsa Perreti is very cool. My hubby got me a necklace from Tiffany for my birthday that I had my eye on. It's tres chic but very versatile. Price tag: $80. (Her stuff runs from that to a few hundred)

I mean, the amount of money you want to spend, you can afford to go anywhere, and if you shop smart you'll have a kick booty ring to give her, so who cares where you bought it. A good diamond is a good diamond and that's that.

I am afraid you'll have a lot of trouble trying to get everything just right, and Mara's right, the whole resizing the head issue could prove to be very tedious and unsuccessful, so be very sure that what you buy can be resized. That's a tricky manuever.

Good luck & congrats on having found your girl!
 
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