I get an upgrade! and I feel like crying....

[Ellen]

Hi all. Hubby gave me a new set of rings for xmas, but I''m picking them out, he knows better. lol

When we bought our first set (24 years ago), we knew NOTHING about diamonds, and, eneded up with a less than stellar set, to say the least. So this time, history is not going to repeat itself. I found this board right after xmas, and have read everything I can get my hands on.

So, we ventured out to the big city to visit a jeweler a friend recommended. Below is my experience.

The business is run by dad and son. Dad waits on us. He has several small, closed ring boxes on his desk. He asked me what I''m interested in. I tell him I don''t want round, or most other fancies. I want a square stone with clipped corners, (now I catch a different look on his face) or octagonal shaped.

He now gets out a long box with many small envelopes that have different diamonds in them. He also says I just cut out a lot of what he has. He pulls out a .51 square. I ask for bigger. He pulls out a 1.51 Radiant, SI1. Mr. finally has to ask for the loupe, which he is given. It''s dirty and scratched.

The diamond has a lot of inclusions, and doesn''t really do anything, like, sparkle as a diamond should. In the meantime I''m trying to tell him all the differents shapes I''ve seen, and would likew to see. Although a couple have been patented and I realize he can''t show me those. (but I''m thinking he could pull out generic cut possibly)

At this point, the mood is beginning to change a tad. I can tell, while he''s being very nice, he''s also beginning to get frustrated. He then asks what kind of setting I''m wanting, and that it''s probably going to be very difficult to get one with what I''m looking for. At this point, I''m thinking WTH? I tell him the two I''m considering (Cathedral or Trellis), and a total look of confusion washes over him. He then turns to get a chart out, and smiles. I kiddingly say, you''re laughing at me. He says, No, I''m not laughing at you, you''re just making this difficult because you''re too educated. I don''t think that was a compliment.

He gets up and goes in the other room. Then the son comes in and dad tells me he is up on this "newer" stuff I''m talking about. He''s nice too. Lines up 4 diff. stones and shows us how to see the color diff. But is rather perplexed as well on what to show me. Asks if I want to see a Cushion. I did. It''s also 1.5 carats, but an SI2. Again, no sparkly, and many inclusions. It did look bigger than the Radiant, which obviously we both liked. But that was it. Mr. asked to see better quality stones, they were never offered. At this point, I''d had enough, and we got up to leave.

We''re all standing at the door chatting, our friend''s there too. The old man looks at me and says, you can be too educated. I politely respond, I don''t think one can be too educated. He says he guesses we have different thoughts on the matter, and I agree. We left.

So, I cal my BIL''s jeweler, tell her what shapes I''m after, and she then asks what I want to see. I told her just under 1.5 to just under 2 carats, VS2 and SI1 eye clean. She then says, you''ve been on the internet. Now, I don''t actually know what she meant by that, but I know how I took it. I told her I''d tried to do my homework, this is a lot of money. She didn''t say much...She had a few Radiants and ONE Cushion. Said she''d try to get more in by next week.



I feel like Julia Roberts in Pretty Woman after her first attempt to go shopping....

Sorry this is so long, but I needed to vent. And now what confidence I had has been shaken. I thought this would be fun, but it''s just like buying a car. You feel like everyone is out to take you for a ride. lol No pun intended.
Thanks to all who actually read my whole rant.

And before you suggest it, if it keeps up like this, yes, I will consider buying online, which I wouldn''t have dreamed of before this.

 

[jaz464]

Welcome to PS!

That is precisely what I would recommend for you (buying online, that is) if you are comfortable doing so. Try out Whiteflash and Good Old Gold. Both have excellent reputations. I have felt just as you do when shopping in B&M stores, as I'm sure many others here have. Sometimes I would just get blank stares in response to simple questions. Pricescope people are not the average jewelry consumers. Good for you for educating yourself prior to this important purchase! Why don't you list more specifically what you are looking for in a diamond and you will get lots of help from fellow PSers.

 

[Dee Jay]

Don''t be discouraged! There are good jewelers--and good diamonds!--out there and you just need to look a little more until you find both!

If you tell us what major city you live in/near someone on this site may be able to recommend other places for you to look where the experience would be better.

Also, I don''t know if you would consider it, but there are a lot of great internet vendors that are discussed on this site, so if you manage to settle on a shape and a size I''m pretty confident you will end up with a great diamond going through any one of them. That might be a last resort--I know how much fun it is shopping for diamonds IN PERSON--but that way at least you will be pretty certain to end up with a good stone, and probably even at a better price than at a B&M store. Check out some of the threads on Whiteflash and Good Old Gold for more info.

Good luck; take your time; and definitely keep us posted!

 

[Ellen]

Jasmine and DJ, thank you for the welcome and kind words. I need them. lol

Ok, I live very close to St. Louis. I know more what I don''t want, than exactly what I do, except I would rather it be different. I fell in love with the Asscher cut, but have decideed against it for several reasons. I own a beautiful emerald cut diamond that was in my mothers engagement ring. They are a pain to keep looking nice, not something I want for every day.

I like the Radiant, Regent, Elara, Jubilee, Cushion, Square Queen of Hearts, along those lines.

If anyone knows of a decent jeweler in the area, I would appreciate hearing about them.


I''ll be honest, it''s kind of scary to think of spending a lot of money on something over the net, but like I said, if it comes down to it, I will consider.

And while it''s SUPPOSED to be fun shopping in person, the jury is still out....

Thanks again!

 

[Rod]

Dee Jay is right. Don't be discouraged. There are good jewelers who appreciate an educated consumer. After many buying mistakes over the years. You know, it was pretty in the store, but then you took it outside and it turned to milk, or the lights went out in cadle-lit situations. So, I decided to learn as much as I could manage to hold in my pee sized brain and I found that it either turned jewelers away or energized them.

Certainly, the firms on this forum, will be delighted to work with someone who obviously took the time to become educated. It means you can share in their enthusiasm and you will obviously understand the merits of for example a lower color in order to attain a higher cut.

But, there are B&M jewelers who will appreciate your knowledge as well. I was truly fortunate to find one such jeweler in Clearwater, FL (PM me if you want contact information) and I think you'll find that many jewelers appreciate informed consumers. You did the right thing walking out of the store where your knowledge was not appreciated.

Good luck and you continue learning and it will ensure you make a really good buying decision, like I did!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think this experience is typical. I went to our most expensive jeweler this week as well as my husband has also said I can get an upgrade for our anniversary. He has gorgeous custom pieces in his cases. I told him up front that I was learning about diamond quality and prices on the internet but wanted to give a local person the opportunity to quote me some prices for comparable rings. To make a long story short, he told me that most people only looked at how the stones looked and very rarely asked to see the numbers on the certificate (and none of his certificates were AGS or GIA!). He said he usually used premium instead of ideal cut diamonds because of balancing out price and beauty. I was looking at RB''s and he has a G VS2 in a 1.8 in a gorgeous antique reproduction setting, but it has no certificate. It was a beautiful ring, but there was no way for me to verify cut, etc. I could believe the G VS2 part, but the other factors would be totally unknown. Then he had a 1.5 I VS2, and it was discernably darker in dim lighting than the higher color stones. He mostly had smaller stones of 1 ct. and less because that is what is in most demand. He told me he''d check with his supplier to see what he had that meets my specifications and get back with me. So we''ll see. To be fair, if most people buying diamonds are just looking at the sparkle and the price tag, there really is not much incentive for jewelers to have a lot of ideal hearts and arrows level stones in their inventory. And as a matter of fact, I am having trouble finding a 1.4-1.5 size stone on any of the recommended online jewelers sites (I have found one 1.38 and that is the closest I have come). So I won''t waste any more time going to jewelry stores because I know what I encountered is typical unless you go to a Tiffany''s level store, and there you pay dearly for the name. So online is the way to go, IMO.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Oh, and the sites that I have seen most recommended here for nice quality diamonds are:

http://www.goodoldgold.com/

http://www.whiteflash.com/

http://www.jamesallen.com/

The thing I like best about online diamond shopping is that you see the stats on the diamond, the price, and often the pictures of the in-stock diamonds. It''s just less hassle. And those three have a return policy if you want to have the option of returning a stone. Much less awkward than dealing with someone in person, I think!

 

[portoar]

Hi, I think it''s precisely because of your experience that you might have a more enjoyable experience shopping via the internet. And it by no means has to be an anonomous experience. Why don''t you call Jonathan at GOG, or someone at WF, or Wink from Winfields, and have a personal conversation with them? They can work with you over the phone, and send you pictures of diamonds that might fit your needs, and you''ll get more information about the diamond you choose, and a better quality diamond, than if you continue shopping the B&Ms.

Honestly, I tried shopping the B&Ms and just had no luck. The salespeople were snobby, or didn''t know anything. There was one delightful salesperson I met, she was young and had just gotten her gemologist degree from the GIA (I live in Carlsbad CA), but . . . the store manager wouldn''t leave her alone with me! He kept coming over and interfering with our discussion, and he was so appalling.

I really do think that if you pick up the phone and talk with someone who ENJOYS and IS USED TO working with an educated consumer you''ll be glad you did!

 

[Ellen]

I agree with everything posted guys. I''m sure there are good B&M stores, hope I can find one.

What blows me away is that ANY jeweler who would expect me to have a couple so so diamonds put in front of me, and have me,

1. Not ask any questions

and

2. Just pick one right then and there (as I think the 1st guy did)

It''s insulting.

Thank you fopr the online vendors, have read very good things about them!

 

[Ellen]

Cut Rock, posted before I saw yours. I appreciate what you''re saying, but since I''ve literally only been in one store so far, I think I ought to give it just a bit more time. We''ll see what happens...

 

[widget]

Hi, Ellen, Welcome!

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience so far. Hopefully someone can recommend someone in St. Louis who can be more help. This should be fun!

I personally am a great fan of internet shopping and highly recommend it, but if shopping locally is important to you, it would probably help to first settle on what you want before you approach a local jeweler. I would imagine most smaller businesses have a limited number of stones in inventory, especially fancy shapes...

Once you've settled on what you want, a good jeweler should be able to call in some suitable candidates for your consideration.

widget

 

[Rod]

Diamndseeker, one should be able to tell a local jeweler what level of quality one expects in a diamond, what kind of proportions, what grading reports etc, and expect that jeweler to bring stones in for your review. I don''t mean to sound anti internet, as I''m not at all. From what I''ve seen, companies such as Whiteflash and Good Old Gold are truly remarkable. But, for me, there is comfort in buying locally. I like supporting local businesses. What I found is that national chains are abysmal places to get the kind of quality more knowledgable consumers demand. You know, Kay, Marks and Morgan, Zales. But in most cities, there are higher-end independent jewelers who might love to meet an informed consumer.

I researched local stores through Tampa Bay Magazine (I live in Tampa). I found that higher end independent jewelers advertise in city magazines. I picked 5 independents whose ads appeared to represent the type of quality I sought. I spoke with each one via telephone and asked for referrals.

I narrowed my choice to two jewelers who seemed to appreciate what I had learned and then visited them to see the quality they had. Since I wanted a custom piece, it turned out my research was valuable. Both jewlers did a lot of custom pieces and represented terrific quality (at BTW, very reasonable prices), but one jeweler had their own in-house metalurgist, who worked pretty exclusively in platinum, and since I wanted my ring to be platinum, that really appealed to me.

When we started, the jeweler did not have a stone in-house that met my criteria. But, once we discussed what I wanted, they called in some stones for my review and I was able to pick out the perfect stone for my needs (GIA Graded, G VS2 Ideal Cut).

From there, the build process took place and I''m now the proud owner of a custom made ring that exceeded my expectations in virtually every regard.

Make some phone calls. You can easily eliminate jewelers who don''t appreciate an informed consumer.

 

[bstraszheim]

First off, congratulations to you for sticking to your guns and not settling for a stone the first jeweller had, just because he said it was a good stone. I am not sure on the specifics of this, but I have heard that if you see a stone (perhaps even a few) on line that look very good to you in the pictures, you can have them sent to an independant appraiser in your area and see the stone(s) up close and touch it and see if it is right for you, before you actually buy it. This may be the way to go, that way you are not solely relying on the internet, you can rely on your eyes too.

If you are looking at radiants and fancy cuts, I would also give David at Diamonds By Lauren a go. HERE is a link to his store front on eBay.

I hope you will have a lovely, sparkly diamond soon,

I wish you well,

Bridget

 

[Ellen]

widget, thank you!

I agree, knowing exactly what I want would help. But that''s just it! Until I see enough different ones in person, how can I know? And yet, you''re right, there don''t seem to be large collections in B&M''s. It''s a catch 22 situation to me....

 

[jaz464]

Yes, some of the online vendors, includind WF and GOG, will send the diamond you are interested in to an independent appraiser in your area so you can see the diamond in person without committing to the diamond first. I would not recommend buying from an online vendor who does not offer this service, with the type of cuts you are considering. These should really be seen in person.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Rod, I thought I should clarify that my local jeweler immediately offered to call in for anything I wanted. He was very nice about that. However, I am a bit uncomfortable asking him to go to the expense of the shipping/insurance when I very well may not buy a stone from him. I would feel very obligated to do so if he was incurring expense to bring in stones.

 

[diamondlil]

Ellen,
I know exactly how you feel. It truly is amazing how some of these places make a living IMO.

I''ve been here at PS for several years, so I know I''m significantly more educated than the average customer. I recently talked to a couple of venders about seeing a half carat super-ideal or H&A round for a pendant. I''m very specific about what I want - SI2, F - H color, specific proportions and grading reports, etc. I got an interesting mix of comments from "they don''t make H&A diamonds in such low clarity" to "H&A diamonds are very expensive." Duh what? I did not ask about the cost and I was not shown any stones yet!!!!!!

Date: 1/13/2006 9:45:30 AM
Author: Ellen

I''ll be honest, it''s kind of scary to think of spending a lot of money on something over the net, but like I said, if it comes down to it, I will consider.

Hang around PS for a while longer, read and get as much information out of the forum as you can, and your hesitancy to buy online will vanish. I''m personally more afraid of *not* buying online.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

I once read an article in the LA Times regarding the car-buying market and car salesmen really hate the internet because it empowers the customer to know more about the process of buying cars, invoice prices are published and any incentives that the dealer will get if they can sell the car quickly upon getting it to the lot. As a result, the consumer is more education in the haggling process and dealers are making less money...

I wonder, as a parallel, if diamond retailers (B&Ms) are having the same issue and that is the reason you received such a snotty reply from that one saleswoman, "Oh, you''ve been on the internet." My guess that it is...and you know what? That''s HER problem...instead of helping you the best she could and providing you with invaluable service, she retorted back with a reply that is preventing her from getting a sale at all! I wonder how that''s working for her?!

If you want to purchase the diamond through a B&M, just know that it''s going to take some time...not all B&Ms will have what you want (as you''re finding) and some are still under the assumption that the consumer believe "cut" refers to the shape of the diamond. Hang in there...be patient...and you''ll find the diamond of you dreams...

 

[devientdrow]

Hi Ellen sorry for the bad expierience you had! You know, I had never thought I would of purchased offline but we got my diamond from www.jamesallen.com and it was great! Jim had no problems with my level of education and answering all my questions. Some people just don''t want to buy online though and thats ok too. It''ll just depend on where your going. I have been to stores and been treated as you were and I have also been to stores where they have seen that I have knowledge and said "Great! So you already know some of this stuff! That makes it easier on me!." Sounds to me like tyhe place you went the guy didn''t have a great selection of stones. It''s a buisness and obviously he was hoping to make a sale with you. Maybe he had some great round brilliants to show you and when you told him you didn''t want that all he had were some lower quality stones. I would make a day where you and your hubby go out and look in a BUNCH of different places. As soon as a sales person speaks to you be completly upfront about what you want and maybe they won''t waste your time like this other place did. IMO after you told the guy what you wanted he should of just outright said to you '' I don''t think we have what your looking for at the moment."

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Ellen and welcome

The process of diamond buying is changing rapidly thanks to the internet and the education now available, it isn't a case of going to a jeweller and buying a diamond because you like it and on clarity and colour now. Unfortunately you experienced a little resentment maybe from a couple jewellers who prefer to do things the old way, try not to worry about it and your new knowledge is a great thing. The downside of internet purchasing is that you can't always see the diamond before purchase, but due to being able to have the appraisal and return policy this isn't quite so much of an issue. Online purchasers can be an educated and discerning bunch who very much prioritise cut quality as their most important C, rightly so as a badly cut diamond won't perform as it should. However in fancies cut is more difficult to evaluate and the eyes are the best tool for discerning beauty. Sometimes it CAN be a tricky process finding the right diamond, especially in a non round but it is definitely doable! Try not to worry too much, diamonds cost a large amount of money and time spent in getting educated and comparing is time invested well to find that diamond which will give you a lifetime of pleasure. If you come across disapproving vibes again from those in the industry who think you have no right to ask questions and get educated, vote with your feet! Keep on looking, buying online can take a leap of faith but so many of us have done it with great results, the help and education is here for you, so take advantage of it! Hope this helps and good luck!

 

[Ellen]

Bridget, thank you. And thanks for the link too!

Diamondlil, amazing indeed.


Question. If I don''t find someone williing to help, and I decide to buy online, yet I haven''t seen enough of whatever I decide on to know a truly great looking stone, can I/do I trust the judgement of the independant appraiser, once I have one sent in?

 

[widget]

Author: Ellen
widget, thank you!
I agree, knowing exactly what I want would help. But that''s just it! Until I see enough different ones in person, how can I know?

Hi, Ellen...
I just did a quick search for "St. Louis" and found several retailers'' names, among them: Neustadter''s and Christian Bernard... (not necessarily recommending them...I''m in California!

)

Maybe you could organize a "diamond looking" trip, but calling ahead to various stores to assure that they have in stock something you want to look at so that you won''t waste your time...

Just a thought...Good Luck!
widget

 

[Patty]

Hi Ellen!

I''m in St. Louis and I just PM''d you about a couple of place to check out. Maybe Ame will also chime in here with places to check out.

I don''t think that I will buy a diamond from a local jeweler here again although I do know of the two I told you about whom I trust. I am friends with the one guy, but he just doesn''t have the selection and information that I want. (Sarin machine, etc.) Also, his bench work is VERY slow. But he can get in just about anything for you and he''s very knowledgable.

Once I bought online, I became spoiled by the great online sites that have so many stones to choose from and so much information. I can understand wanting to see the stones in person first and try various shapes and sizes, though. The second place I told you about should have a larger selection for you to check out. Since I''m pretty much a round brilliant fanatic, it''s easier for me to just pick out things online.

Good luck!

 

[Ellen]

AChiOAlumna, I think you hit the nail on the head. And as someone said on here, in an article I read about B&M''s, they better stop pouting and get with the program. Embrace the customer, the customers knowledge, and inevitably make some money. No, they won''t sell us the poor strones they''re trying to get rid of, but some poor soul will buy them eventually. like we really need to tell them, but insulting a customer is NOT going to result in a sale. *bonk head*


devient, thank you for the link. And I agree, he SHOULD have been upfont. Shoulda, coulda, woulda maybe sold me something he had brought in, in the end....


Lorelei, thanks as well. And yes, from everything I''ve read, I have picked a tricky stone to find. Figures, lol

 

[Ellen]

widget, I too have done a search since that first trip. Thing is, I always have heard, "Go with someone who has been to that jeweler". Well, that''s pretty much going out the window.lol So, I found one and emailed them, briefly telling them what I''m looking for, and if they don''t mind my questions, please let me know. That was Wed. morning, still haven''t heard back. I may very well contact those you found, as I saw them as well in my search. Thanks again!


Patty, thank you! Going to read now.

BTW, I''m in no real hurry. I''ve waited almost a quarter of a century (GOD I''m old) for this, I can wait a few more months.

 

[Rod]

Ellen, I wouldn''t feel bad about asking a B&M to bring the quality of diamond you want in for viewing and then if you don''t like what they get, not purchase. It can''t cost that much for a jeweler to reserve stones on consignment and then return them if not purchased. After all, isn''t that what it takes to be in business? Shouldn''t a retailer have to have what a customer wants to see in order to make a sale. I wouldn''t hesitate to have a jeweler you trust order you some stones. I''d just make it clear what grading system you expect, the cut quality, the color, the clarity and carat weight you expect in your budget.

Again, I hope you find what you''re looking for.

 

[Ellen]

Rod, you are right!

And thank you.

 

[solange]

If you do not find what you are looking for in a B&M, you might find it easier and less stressful to buy on line. I live in Manhattan--not far from the Diamond District. After a long search, I gave up and bought my stone on line. I got fed up with the strange looks when I asked questions and particularly if I mentioned anything I had learned on the Internet.

I bought from Whiteflash but any of the others recommended on this site will certainly try to do well for you. Just make sure that you buy a stone that is not drop-shipped--in other words, the vendor actually sends for the stone, examines it and will then discuss it with you on the phone.

If the stone is in the vendor''s inventory, it was probably selected for good reasons--performance and value. And if a vendor sends for a stone for you, the diamond dealer is likely to be honest with the vendor because it is not profitable to either of them to be going to the expense of shipping out stones likely to be returned since they all do have a return policy. And since the dealer has an ongoing relationship with the Pricescope vendors, they will be likely to give accurate descriptions before sending out a stone that is not as described only to get it back.Also, the Pricescope vendors have access to vast numbers of stones and new lists come in frequently. If you work with a vendor, they can be on the look out for exactly what you want and notify you when they find it. My requirements were unusual and i waited a few months before Lesley at Whiteflash notified me that she found a stone she and Brian thought would suit my needs.

If you do decide to buy on line, most vendors will allow you to have a stone shipped to an appraiser in your area where you can see it,usually before you pay.

 

[Ellen]

SDL, thank you.

solange, you make a great case for online purchasing. Makes sense, thanks!

 

[dominicr]

This is my first post ever in this forum, though I have browsed through for a couple of years now. I felt compelled to respond. I am one of those maligned B&M retailers. Many of you are correct, admittedly some have not realized that the internet is a real presence and whine about it instead of dealing head on. It''s a shame that your experience has caused you to doubt B&M jewelers. We still can show you a selection of stones side by side & face to face. That seems to be one advantage we still have. There still is a given market price for a diamond based on the 4 C''s, type of cert, etc. I have seen few internet deals that I couldn''t come pretty close to, match, or beat. If a B&M retailer finds themselves constantly losing sales to the net, then it is they, not the internet that is to blame.
I like educated customers, they save time. Time is money. I lose far fewer sales to educated consumers than the uneducated that focus only on carat weight & price. They tend to go to large chains anyway and then suffer with the crap they get.
Please be gentle, this is my first time.