I am really bummed.....

[cushioncutnut]

I called my jeweler today to see if my rubellite tourmaline from Bob Kast was set and ready to pick up and well, um.... his benchman broke the stone while setting it. WHAT? really?? This was a first for me so I was a bit shocked to really say anything. I totally trust my jeweler and have used him several times before and of course he would have never accepted the job if he felt there would be a problem. Well, according to the benchman, he barely used any pressure and the stone broke. So now they are getting in another rubellite and if all goes well, I should be getting the ring back next week. My first question was, will the stone be as beautiful as the BK stone, 2nd-what if I don't like it? and 3rd will this be at my expense because I am already out the expense of the first stone? Naturally he re-assured me by saying that they accept full responsibility for what happened and there will be no extra cost...and if I don't like the stone, there will be no charge...he also said the stone would be even more gorgeous than the first stone. I think that is all great no doubt....but I am still perplexed. I just read on another thread about setting a tourmaline with a stress fracture. There was no stress fracture that I knew of in the stone that I purchased from Bob nor did he indicate so. He did however indicate that there was inclusions. I see all over the colored stone forum tourmalines set all the time and I just don't know what to think of all of this??? Should I Bob what happened?? I really don't want to point fingers at anyone as the jeweler is doing everything in his power to make things right ....and even at his expense.
TL, I know you are a Tourmaline expert.......... thoughts? I knew Tourmaline is a softer stone but not so soft that I would question having them set and wearing them. Anyone, is there something that I am not understanding? The BK stone was kinda expensive for the size of it, however he did say the rough was a more expensive rough. Could the rough quite possibly be a "softer" rough than normal due to the color.......??? I dunno........ I am not upset about this really just a bit disappointed and perplexed.

 

[lavatea]

Oh NO! I'm so sorry! It's my stone that has the stress fracture. It doesn't look like yours had one (from the pictures). I hope this all turns out ok for you! <Hugs>

 

[PrecisionGem]

This kind of thing happens. Every time I walk into a jeweler to try to sell some stones, they bring out of few stones that they chipped or broke trying to set them and ask if I can fix the stones.

 

[StonieGrl]

I am sorry to hear that, that kind of news, when you get it, goes right to the old solar plexus.

BUT.

Most jewelers don't cover the cost of customer-supplied stones if they break. Remember, he did not advise you to use this stone and he did not sell you/make a profit on the stone. He took the stone on good faith and now he's eating it.

You have a good jeweler there who obviously values your biz.

Quite a few jewelers now and custom jewelers we love on Etsy are requiring insurance for more costly stones because they cannot afford to replace them.

Setting a stone is a 'dangerous' proposition, I don't care that people say that are blithe about it, I've talked to lots and lots of quality jewelers and they all tell me the same thing: It happens and its not always predictable and not always the iffy stones like tanzanites, etc .

 

[lavatea]

Stonie - You've got me scared. Should we insure all of our stones before they're set? I'm on a very tight budget on my current project, but now I'm worried that my stone could break. I can't afford to replace the stone and pay for the setting. What's the limit on what is worth it to insure? A $20 stone? $50? $100? $200?

Will your insurance cover an unset stone just during the setting process? To have my e-ring insured (still haven't done that) they want me to have it appraised. Would it be the same for a stone?

 

[cushioncutnut]

I am sorry to hear that, that kind of news, when you get it, goes right to the old solar plexus.

BUT.

Most jewelers don't cover the cost of customer-supplied stones if they break. Remember, he did not advise you to use this stone and he did not sell you/make a profit on the stone. He took the stone on good faith and now he's eating it.

You have a good jeweler there who obviously values your biz.

Quite a few jewelers now and custom jewelers we love on Etsy are requiring insurance for more costly stones because they cannot afford to replace them.

Setting a stone is a 'dangerous' proposition, I don't care that people say that are blithe about it, I've talked to lots and lots of quality jewelers and they all tell me the same thing: It happens and its not always predictable and not always the iffy stones like tanzanites, etc .

I agree, I totally did not expect him to cover the cost of replacing my supplied stone and I told him so. He really has wonderful customer service and guarantees my satisfaction. I would never say anything against that or him. Luckily the stone was not so expensive for him to replace.

Gene, thanks for your input! Would it be safe to say that the stones that are offered to you for re-cutting are mostly tourmalines??

 

[T L]

Awww, CCN,
I'm so sorry this happened to you. My jeweler always inspects the gem with a loupe before setting and asks what kind of stone it is, and if they don't know the approximate hardness on the Moh's scale, they ask me. Rubellite has needles and internal stress fractures. I recently had a pink tourmaline set with several of these stress fractures, and the jeweler has to be exceedingly careful. However, yes, it can happen, even to a diamond, if it's got a feather or internal fracture, or you hit it the wrong way.

 

[Largosmom]

So sorry to hear about the loss of your stone, and yet what a wonderful jeweler. I hope he finds something equally beautiful.

So far I have been lucky...I know that will not always be the case.

Laura

 

[cushioncutnut]

So sorry to hear about the loss of your stone, and yet what a wonderful jeweler. I hope he finds something equally beautiful.

So far I have been lucky...I know that will not always be the case.

Laura

I consider myself pretty lucky too since this is the first that it has happened.

Thanks TL.... The jeweler knew right away what I gave him ...but just like I trust him, he trusts his benchman. I consider myself blessed that this has never happened before and that I have such a great jeweler to stand behind his work even if it is not his fault.

 

[packrat]

I'm sorry that happened, but I do hope you like the new stone they get!

 

[baby nurse]

Ugh! So sorry that that happened, cushioncutnut! How awful! But as other people said, it sounds like you have a great jeweler. I really hope you like the stone that he finds and that the finished ring makes you happy.

 

[cushioncutnut]

Thanks everyone for your well wishes. I know that these things happen from time to time...but you know how excited you get when you want to pick your item up from the jewelers and then you get some "not so good news". Lets hope that the stone is even more spectacular! If not, then I will have to resort to plan B....but I won't say that out loud until I am sure it can be done.

 

[ededdeddy]

So sorry to hear about this CCN. I am frightened about this happening with my gemstones, I think that is why I haven't pulled the trigger yet on setting them.

 

[marcy]

I am so sorry to hear that. I am glad he is getting you a replacement. Keep us posted.

 

[chrono]

First off, I’m sorry about your stone. Unfortunately, sometimes a stone breaks or chips even at the hands of a skilled benchperson. As courtesy, I’m sure Bob will appreciate being notified that his rubellite broke during the setting process and that your jeweller has taken responsibility for it (which is really great of them since most jewelers don’t and have it stated clearly in their store policy). As you already know, most rubellites are not totally clean although they are definitely fine to set. I’m sure your jeweller louped the stone prior to setting the stone himself to make sure it is doable at his end. Again, I’m sorry about your stone.

 

[cushioncutnut]

First off, I’m sorry about your stone. Unfortunately, sometimes a stone breaks or chips even at the hands of a skilled benchperson. As courtesy, I’m sure Bob will appreciate being notified that his rubellite broke during the setting process and that your jeweller has taken responsibility for it (which is really great of them since most jewelers don’t and have it stated clearly in their store policy). As you already know, most rubellites are not totally clean although they are definitely fine to set. I’m sure your jeweller louped the stone prior to setting the stone himself to make sure it is doable at his end. Again, I’m sorry about your stone.

I have been debating about emailing Bob concerning the rubellite, but I think it would be a discourtesy if I didn't. The rough he states is expensive and I would hate to think that maybe the rough he is purchasing could be rather delicate. I say this as a non-expert...but I would hate to have this happen to someone else and him not be aware of it. Thanks everyone for your well wishes. It is not the end of the world I realize but you know how we get excited about our jewelry and then a little "glich" takes place. So glad it was not a high dollar stone that this happened too......

 

[cellentani]

I'm very sorry to hear about your stone, cushioncutnut - even though we all know the risks of having stones set, it's always a bit wrenching when it happens. As an encouragement, I've had 3 of Bob's rubellites set without incident, and all have the typical inclusions. When do you get to see the new rubellite your jeweler is bringing in? Bob told me he's getting another shipment this week, in case you're interested. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a happy conclusion!

 

[cushioncutnut]

I'm very sorry to hear about your stone, cushioncutnut - even though we all know the risks of having stones set, it's always a bit wrenching when it happens. As an encouragement, I've had 3 of Bob's rubellites set without incident, and all have the typical inclusions. When do you get to see the new rubellite your jeweler is bringing in? Bob told me he's getting another shipment this week, in case you're interested. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a happy conclusion!

I KNOW! I love your tourmalines in those gorgeous settings so it could very well be just my luck that my rubellite broke. My jeweler said I will get it this week...and it will already be set. Not sure how I feel about that.....but I am trying to be optimistic. I really can't shell out any more money on a stone as my obsession has been a little too out of control lately!

 

[PrecisionGem]

I am sorry to hear that, that kind of news, when you get it, goes right to the old solar plexus.

Gene, thanks for your input! Would it be safe to say that the stones that are offered to you for re-cutting are mostly tourmalines??

No, I haven't seen any pattern in the stones, pretty much everything including diamonds. Of course i don't cut diamonds but I do see many chipped or damages stones.

I think it all depends on the jeweler. I have sold to some who have set many apatite and fire opal with no problems, and then others chip sapphire. Most likely a function of the skill and experience of the setter, and a bit of luck.

 

[StonieGrl]

Hi CCN: I didn't get a complainy vibe from your thread, not at all.

I would tell someone who sold me a stone that it broke during the setting process, after all, most of us buy the stones to have them put into a setting.

Re insurance, the other PSer who posted questions, you have to determine your own tolerance for risk and what you are willing to pay out. In my own case, I hate buying insurance for ANYTHING. When I got the outrageous, IMHO, quote to cover my musical instruments and jewelry, I said "No thanks" and instead bought a gun safe to keep it all in. Any robber would require dynamite to get in, it can't be toted off, its bolted to the floor and 700 pounds besides.

I don't buy stones that should be insured, I keep my stones under $2k for that reason.

 

[cushioncutnut]

Hi CCN: I didn't get a complainy vibe from your thread, not at all.

I would tell someone who sold me a stone that it broke during the setting process, after all, most of us buy the stones to have them put into a setting.

Re insurance, the other PSer who posted questions, you have to determine your own tolerance for risk and what you are willing to pay out. In my own case, I hate buying insurance for ANYTHING. When I got the outrageous, IMHO, quote to cover my musical instruments and jewelry, I said "No thanks" and instead bought a gun safe to keep it all in. Any robber would require dynamite to get in, it can't be toted off, its bolted to the floor and 700 pounds besides.

I don't buy stones that should be insured, I keep my stones under $2k for that reason.

I hope I didn't sound "whiney" or "complainy". As a small business owner, I understand the risk somewhat.....but the jeweler also gets the risk and he is willing to take that risk when he took my stone in. Surprising, but non-the-less, he is all about customer service...so I am happy that he was willing to go above and beyond without me asking or expecting him to replace the stone. Doesn't get much better than that. Also, he does have insurance.... therefore, which is willing to take the risk. That said, the stone was inexpensive enough that he can replace it cheaper than I could order a new one from Bob. This is where the uncertainty comes in as I question if the stone will be as nicely saturated and cut as nice as Bob's. At this point, I will trust my jeweler as he also guarantees that if I don't like the stone, I don't have to accept it. Win-win situation.
And concerning insurance, I am right there with you Stoniegrl! I hate Insurance and will only buy it when I think it is absolutely necessary!

Gene, for a fraction of a second, I had wondered if the setter may not be so competent.......but I have to believe what the jeweler told me as the setter said he barely put any pressure on it and it chipped???? I am sure if this happens alot, needless to say the setter may be out of a job.

 

[kelpie]

Aww! One time back on ebay Bob sent me the wrong stone and it had a crack it in, I did like the cut more than the one I really bought though. He said he would make it up to me but never did. I'd still buy more of his stuff because no one beats his prices for well cut stones even if every once in a while you get a dud. I'm just saying perhaps it could have been cracked to start with...

 

[cushioncutnut]

Aww! One time back on ebay Bob sent me the wrong stone and it had a crack it in, I did like the cut more than the one I really bought though. He said he would make it up to me but never did. I'd still buy more of his stuff because no one beats his prices for well cut stones even if every once in a while you get a dud. I'm just saying perhaps it could have been cracked to start with...

Yes, I have to admit, I didn't loupe it. I usually trust unless someone gives me a reason not to trust. Don't mean to sound naive in saying that.... just like to pick and choose my battles. In any case, I did send Bob a message,however, I did see that all of his listings are not on the other site? Not sure if he will get back with me or not but at least he has been informed. Although the prices are good, I am not sure if I would order from him again. The Dan Stair stone was alot less expensive....... but I know I am comparing 2 different stones.

 

[Lee Little]

Most stones can easily take the pressure that happens while being set so it generally is not a problem but I have broken a number of them. Usually it happened when I worked too long and set too many in a day and should have quit already.
They don't have to have a flaw in order to break them but normally that is where it happens. A steel setting tool with a hammer behind it can break any stone so one must be very careful and work when conditions are optimal. Lighting must be very good, magnification must be adequate, there can be no rush and no distractions. I like to set stones when I am fully awake so I generally will not jump out of bed and start hammering. It seems like eyes wake up later than the body does.
Gene is right about it largely depending on the bench man. Some stone setters that I know are afraid to use magnification because they think their eyes will go bad quicker if they do. These type of guys I cannot trust to not damage a stone as many stones require one to be able to see more detail than the naked eye can possibly see in order not to put too much stress on one point on the stone. The key is to keep the pressure even all the way around the stone. As long as pressure is equally applied and is never very strongly applied one can set most any stone without a problem. Best regards, Lee

 

[cushioncutnut]

Most stones can easily take the pressure that happens while being set so it generally is not a problem but I have broken a number of them. Usually it happened when I worked too long and set too many in a day and should have quit already.
They don't have to have a flaw in order to break them but normally that is where it happens. A steel setting tool with a hammer behind it can break any stone so one must be very careful and work when conditions are optimal. Lighting must be very good, magnification must be adequate, there can be no rush and no distractions. I like to set stones when I am fully awake so I generally will not jump out of bed and start hammering. It seems like eyes wake up later than the body does.
Gene is right about it largely depending on the bench man. Some stone setters that I know are afraid to use magnification because they think their eyes will go bad quicker if they do. These type of guys I cannot trust to not damage a stone as many stones require one to be able to see more detail than the naked eye can possibly see in order not to put too much stress on one point on the stone. The key is to keep the pressure even all the way around the stone. As long as pressure is equally applied and is never very strongly applied one can set most any stone without a problem. Best regards, Lee

thanks Lee for your input. That is interesting to know what a benchman may consider while setting a stone. I know they can't be without flaw all the time as no one in life is perfect!

I did send Bob and email and this was his reply:
I am really sorry your jeweler has broken your gem by putting too much pressure on the prong. This happens quite offten and it is his job to replace it. There was nothing wrong with that rubrllite, it had no visible inclusions. I am really sorry because that gem was valueable.

Oh well, at least he knows. Hopefully it won't happen to anyone elses stone that they purchase from him.

 

[ValentinesJewelryDesign]

I'm sorry that this happened to you. I've been setting colored stones for over 10 yrs and have to say, that on rare occaision, this kind of thing does happen. We're cutting, applying pressure, and folding metal over a crystalline material which may not like the pressure we decide to put on it. One thing that many people confuse is the relevancy of the Moh's hardness scale when determining if a stone will break easily or not. The hardness scale has little to do with the ability to resist BREAKING....it has everything to do with the ability to resist SCRATCHING. The classic example is Emerald. It's an 8 on the Moh's scale as it is Beryl. But so is Aquamarine and Morganite which tend to break or chip much less easily. Emerald is simply more BRITTLE....even when very clean. Throw in alot of inclusions and points that cause cleavage planes and you have a stone that can break fairly easily. Amethyst is a 7 on the hardness scale. It's facet edges will round out and it will scratch easier than Emerald, but it typically withstands CHIPPING for longer. The confusion surrounding Moh's hardness is one of the biggest things we have to deal with as a custom shop that set alot of rare color. The term hardness is completely misunderstood. Just remember.....Moh's is simply the ability to resist scratching.....not breaking! I hope this helps!


Matt

 

[Arkteia]

Doesn't breaking also depend on cleavage planes? I would assume that a stone that has one cleavage plane should be more resistant to breaking than the one that has six (e.g. sphalerite).
Or is it mostly inner tension of the stone?

 

[Lee Little]

You are certainly correct, cleavage is a huge factor. An obvious example is Kyanite, perfect in one direction and to make matters more complicated it is only a 4 in hardness one direction and about a 7 in the other. It is a very difficult stone to facet because of these factors since a piece will tend to fly off for no obvious reason. Whenever one survives the faceting process and then it is time to set it, I get nervous because of the cleavage. It can really sneak up on ya. Best regards, Lee

 

[Lee Little]

I thought I would add that Tourmaline has no cleavage. A well cut and clean tourmaline that breaks with very little pressure put on it is impossible for me to imagine. Accidents do happen, very big of them to own up to it. Best regards, Lee

 

[cushioncutnut]

I thought I would add that Tourmaline has no cleavage. A well cut and clean tourmaline that breaks with very little pressure put on it is impossible for me to imagine. Accidents do happen, very big of them to own up to it. Best regards, Lee

Thanks again for some the valid point concerning MOH is not necessarily a chipping issue but rather a scratching issue.......and then you have to deal with cleavage. Learning something new all the time on this forum.

Lee... maybe I should have had you set the tourmaline as I am really questioning the setters competence.