Huge diamond list; How to weed out?

[icy_jade]

I’ve seen such lists before at local wholesalers and even some chain stores... my personal experience though is that they do have the diamonds, just need to pull from vault or transfer from other stores.

Anyway echoing what the others say, you may like to share your budget and specs for diamond suggestions.

 

[WinkHPD]

@Wink or @Winks_Elf can clarify, but I believe HPD is one of a few retailers of the CBI line - not directly affiliated with the Infinity llc. Paul Slegers and John Pollard are CBI executives who post here regularly, and this community is lucky to have them.

Yssie is correct. Our company is one of 20 locations selling Crafted by Infinity diamonds in the USA. There are 5 locations in Europe. You can see the list here.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonds/diamonds-city

Many people know I have chosen to sell only Crafted by Infinity diamonds, which may be why Sledge thought we were divisions. What many here may not realize is that we also partner with the other USA locations and some in Europe. That means a shopper can work with us, or them, or both of us together. It is a unique “internet-age” cooperation among Crafted by Infinity dealers, and we have been introducing Pricescopers to some absolutely wonderful jewelers local to them.

Thank you @yssie for the clarification. I've bumped into John a few times and always enjoy his comments also. He is the type of guy I'd enjoy drinking a beer with and talking tech details.

LOL! I have done this many times my friend and I hope you have the occasion one day. John visits the locations I linked, educating their jewelers, so perhaps that is doable.

Wink

 

[Athena10X]

HPD = High Performance Diamonds
BGD = Brian Gavin Diamonds

Both are superb vendors. Brian actually helped cofound WF and then went out on his own several years back. When at WF he helped create their ACA line. He is well known and respected for his cut quality.

@Wink founded HPD and their super ideals labeled as Crafted by Infinity (CBI). I've yet to see a CBI super ideal in person against a WF ACA or BGD super ideal but one seen videos and photos saying they are done different so their is a different contrast. On those mediums I've seen differences that I do like. Others say they cant see it. Until I see in person I won't go one way or the other. I do know I like Winks enthusiasm for diamonds and helping people and think he's in it for the right reason.

Again 3 quality vendors. Hard to choose a favorite as I like them all. However the stone I bought for my girl came from BGD and we love it! It's not just the quality but Lesley at BGD is a huge part of the experience and is lovely to deal with

@sledge, I proudly own a CBI and keep growing fonder of it everyday. It has medium fluorescence and turns an icy blue under direct sunlight (without milkyness or haziness), which I personally love! Both @Wink and @Winks_Elf are fabulous to work with. They were extremely patient with my initial indecisiveness, then my desire to custom design my e-ring, and worked with us financially so that we could secure the perfect diamond. They also sent the diamond to a local jeweler so that we could see in person before committing and provided videos. Even though the local jeweler (in San Francisco) had an ASET scope, Ideal scope, etc., I brought my own.

I feel lucky that Wink directed me to an awesome local brick and mortar jeweler who eventually created my one of a kind Star Wars and Verragio inspired ring. In fact, while discussing the ring design, the jeweler also explained the history and development of the MRB cut, the scopes, etc. and his wife is a diamond cutter so she explained the importance of angles, proportions, and optical symmetry and how facets should act like mirrors and disperse light in what we call fire, brilliance and scintillation. Night and day compared to other local retailers.

In any case, you just gave me an idea for my wedding band. I’ve been turmoiling over it for some time as I couldn’t find one that would work with my e-ring. But now I think I want to do a custom 5-stone band, one stone from each super-ideal vendor. Obviously, each stone would have to be similar size (.2 ct?) and color, so I will have to do some preliminary research to see if my idea is even feasible. Anybody done this before?

 

[Athena10X]

Many, if not most, reputable diamond retailers will have an ASET in house. Some will have a presentation style ASET such as the one below.



At the very least, a reputable retailer should have a hand held version and be willing to share it with his clientele.

Even if a retailer does not have an ASET of his own, many of the dealers that they buy from will supply them with images for them to share with their clients.

The top quality online diamond sellers will have full information such as copies of the AGS or GIA reports, ASET images, Ideal-scope images, magnified images of the diamonds, etc on their websites.

Your task, as a person in search of a quality diamond, is to find the retailers who will offer you the information that you need without making it hard for you to find. Those are the sites that leave you thinking, "Wow, I never knew how much there was to know about a diamond's cut." There are several such sites recommended often by the regulars here, as those sites have earned their reputations. They do not hold themselves out as wholesalers, as they are clearly dealing with the public. They do not hold out information that should be freely offered as they are WANTING to help educate their clients.

They also do not bury you in long lists with limited information, making it nearly impossible for you to find what you are looking for with anything other than blind luck, or Pricescope regulars, guiding you to a diamond of spectacular beauty rather than a relatively lifeless lump of crystallized carbon.

When you find the right retailer, whether online or in a Bricks and Mortar store, you will come up smelling of beautiful roses.

Wink

@Wink, out of curiosity, do any vendors sell used presentation ASETs? Would love to buy one except can’t through AGS since not a trade member.

 

[sledge]

@Wink, out of curiosity, do any vendors sell used presentation ASETs? Would love to buy one except can’t through AGS since not a trade member.

I'd be game for this as well

 

[WinkHPD]

@Wink, out of curiosity, do any vendors sell used presentation ASETs? Would love to buy one except can’t through AGS since not a trade member.

I do not know of any jeweler who understands the power of this magnificent tool doing so. I would not sell my ASET, we have had so many wonderful times together. I always start out with my ASET showing someone an ugly duckling before putting a treasure in the ASET. The gasps of joy, comments like, "It's like a kaleidoscope." Those moments are priceless to me and I wish so much there was a way to share that excitement online.

@Athena10X, I am so glad you got to meet with my friend and his wife in (City redacted). They are a great couple and he originally taught me the foundation of what would eventually help me quickly grasp and understand what the ASET had to offer when AGS finally presented it to the gemological world.

It was a great gift and I believe it will stand the test of time for many years to come.

Wink

 

[ollie808]

We were able to select these. Sorry no available ASET imagery, but we were able to view them with the scope. They all look very similar to be honest. What are your opinions just based on the certs?

 

[OoohShiny]

Have you run all the GIA report numbers / angles through the HCA tool to make sure they score under 2?

The look like they should all be around or under 2, but best to check.

The 1.51 G looks to have the cleanest clarity plot. Were the inclusions white / black / obvious?
I prefer 'eye-clean' but you might prefer to accept some visible inclusions if they are not too noticeable and it gets you to the size you desire.

 

[sledge]

I like the 1.55 F because of the smaller table and more complimentary angles. It has a 1.3 HCA btw. Not a fan of the big inclusion on the table but since you seen in person I am assuming all are eye clean and do not have a negative effect.

FYI the 1.50 G has a 1.7 HCA and the 1.51 G has a 0.9 HCA. Keep in mind HCA is an elimination tool only. Less than 2 is preferred. However we can't determine if a 1.3 is better than a 1.7 without additional images, rather that be idealscope or ASET.

Some believe very low values are best used for earrings and pendants but not e-rings.

If you are unable to obtain images but the stones are in-store I would buy an idealscope and ASET scope for in person review and confirmation.

 

[ollie808]

Yes all score below a 2 for the HCA (didn't run the AGS diamond) and are eye clean enough. I viewed all under ASET and ideal scope in person (no printouts but actual scope). Honestly they all look so similar; it was what I feared would happen.

 

[ollie808]

Prices: GIA number ending in 8433 is $15,500
3347 is $13,800
9260 is $16,300

and the AGS stone is the cheapest at $12,800.

Ran the ideal cut measurements through brian gavin, james allen, high performance diamonds and white flash and the diamonds seem generally more expensive than this face-to-face jeweler, some upwards to $16-18k.

1.5 carat
F or G color
SI1
Round
none to faint flor
(table, depth, CA, and PA all within aforementioned ideal parameters)

 

[farrahlyn]

WF, HPD and BGD of course are going to be more expensive, they are super ideals meaning they are cut very precisely plus all of the light return imaging, etc is readily available.

The prices seem pretty on par with JA. My thoughts on the stones presented are bolded:

GIA number ending in
8433 is $15,500 This is my favorite of the bunch
3347 is $13,800 inclusions and "additional clouds" would prob make it a no for me
9260 is $16,300 Inclusions and clouds comment would probably make it a no for me as well.

and the AGS stone is the cheapest at $12,800. definitely my least favorite, due to the table size

 

[ollie808]

What do you guys think of these? Both pass the HCA.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9807
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4013665.htm

 

[sledge]

In case you aren't aware, the HCA does not apply to AGS stones. The reason being is AGS stones undergo complex 3D modeling that then spits out a computer generated ASET image that confirms cut quality and light performance.

Unfortunately, GIA only runs basic 2D modeling and does some strange rounding and averaging of their angles & percentages. That said, the HCA tool takes the given angles and percentages and tries to run a model to predict how those angles MIGHT work with each other. It's not as advanced as the 3D modeling system AGS uses but it provides something to gauge GIA stones at least.

My point in all this is that passing the HCA means nothing for AGS stones as they have cut grades assigned, complex 3D modeling and computer generated ASET's. And in this case, both these diamonds are super ideals with near perfect H&A symmetry and actual ASET and IS images that confirm true light performance. Even with GIA stones, actual ASET and IS images supersede the HCA analysis.

As far as WF or HPD, both are great vendors and beautiful stones.

I prefer HPD because it seems much cleaner than the WF stone. You should always confirm that an SI1 stone is eye clean. That cert on the WF stone looks nasty to me, and I don't like it. Although their webpage says it IS eye clean. I'd still have WF confirm it. In comparison, the HPD stone cert looks much cleaner, but definitely have @Wink confirm it is eye clean.

I also like the HPD because some photos and videos I've seen makes their cut appear to be something I prefer. Do some research. Or possibly have them send you a stone to review (they have a "try & buy" program). Many rave about their unique cut and say they have a beauty unmatched by others.

I like the WF stone because it's bigger for the same money.

In all cases, I would prefer a stone from either WF or HPD to some of the other stones. Excellent customer service, great trade-in/trade-up programs, transparency and complete imagery and a SUPER IDEAL stone!

 

[ollie808]

Thank you so much @sledge for all of your thoughtful and informative responses thus far. I'm pretty sure I've decided to go with something from HPD/CBI, and am looking at choosing between the following:

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10056
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10130
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9807

It seems to me that they are all pretty similar... Except for the color and price difference, but please correct me if I am wrong, as I am still learning! I'm trying to decide if one would be able to tell the difference between a G vs I color in person, and if it is worth the larger jump in price for the G. Would you guys be able to rank your most to least favorite of the 3 for me? Any advice is greatly appreciated! Thank you so much.

 

[whitewave]

I have a G CBI and it is plenty white. Having said that, I also think the I will be white and I think all 3 will be amazing. For myself, I would even consider J or K... just explaining that I consider myself tint sensitive and I think a J CBI would be fine.

I would say of the 3 you listed, go with which is most friendly to your budget,.

I love my CBI so much, I’m getting another one lol and I’m sure I won’t stop at 2.

 

[sledge]

I got caught up in another post where someone was debating between G & H and if they could tell the difference in one color grade. There were some good images I posted (IMO, lol) so I am quoting myself below so you can see them and I will let you make a final determination.

While I think an I will face up white, you will be able to see some tint on the side. Depending on color sensitivity and preference, some people may love it and actually prefer it. Others may have issues with it. I think the images below show pretty well that while it has a little tint, an I is nothing to be feared.

However, I would ask HPD to confirm if it's a high I (near H), medium I (basically an I) or low I (near J).

The above said, my ranking would be as follows:

1. 1.51 G SI1
2. 1.508 I VS2 <--- Great bang for the buck IMO
3. 1.504 I VS1

If you aren't as color sensitive and don't like the additional dollars for the G, then I'd move the 1.508 I VS2 to my #1 choice as I also really like it a lot.

FYI, here is the answer key to the games I posted earlier in case anyone wanted them....

Game 1:



Game 2:
Group 1


Group 2


Group 3

 

[whitewave]

I got caught up in another post where someone was debating between G & H and if they could tell the difference in one color grade. There were some good images I posted (IMO, lol) so I am quoting myself belolw so you can see them and I will let you make a final determination.

While I think an I will face up white, you will be able to see some tint on the side. Depending on color sensitivity and preference, some people may love it and actually prefer it. Others may have issues with it. I think the images below show pretty well that while it has a little tint, an I is nothing to be feared.

However, I would ask HPD to confirm if it's a high I (near H), medium I (basically an I) or low I (near J).

The above said, my ranking would be as follows:

1. 1.51 G SI1
2. 1.508 I VS2 <--- Great bang for the buck IMO
3. 1.504 I VS1

If you aren't as color sensitive and don't like the additional dollars for the G, then I'd move the 1.508 I VS2 to my #1 choice as I also really like it a lot.

Crafted by infinity is different.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-color

 

[whitewave]

Wild card: 1.87 J Si1
https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9893

 

[sledge]

Crafted by infinity is different.

https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/education/education-color

I apologize as I'm on my mobile and scanned the article but can you or @Wink confirm if the CBI stone color grading being whiter than average truly unique to CBI, or to all super ideals as a result of their details and attention to precise cutting.

I ask respectfully as we all understand super ideals face up bigger and whiter. I'm just curious if CBI does so better than the competition, and if HPD or CBI has additional test data or articles I could read regarding the matter.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I definitely agree with the second sentence!

I have seen printed lists of in-stock or locally available stones when shopping in London - I guess they are a useful quick-reference list for staff of what is immediately available. I hadn't really found PS at that point - if I had, I would perhaps have felt more confident picking out stones with suitable parameters!

I'm dating myself, but I remember a time when brick and mortar jewelers actually bought diamonds for stock. Most would make regular trips to New York and/or go overseas to do their buying and then fill in when traveling reps would visit their stores. That morphed into a consignment model where the reps would come around and leave diamonds on 'memo'. In addition to the diamonds they placed on consignment, they would leave a list of their entire inventory. Jewelers would often have a stack of inventory lists from a variety of suppliers that they would work from if a customer was looking for something they did not have.

Having been heavily involved in the digital world since the 1990's my memories of those times are fading! But I have no doubt that some very good 'old school' jewelers still work from lists. Old habits are hard to break and if it works for you, why change? But most modern consumers want more up to the minute, comprehensive information. Their time is valuable and their options are many, so an inefficient shopping experience will deter many.

 

[OoohShiny]

I'm dating myself, but I remember a time when brick and mortar jewelers actually bought diamonds for stock. Most would make regular trips to New York and/or go overseas to do their buying and then fill in when traveling reps would visit their stores. That morphed into a consignment model where the reps would come around and leave diamonds on 'memo'. In addition to the diamonds they placed on consignment, they would leave a list of their entire inventory. Jewelers would often have a stack of inventory lists from a variety of suppliers that they would work from if a customer was looking for something they did not have.

Having been heavily involved in the digital world since the 1990's my memories of those times are fading! But I have no doubt that some very good 'old school' jewelers still work from lists. Old habits are hard to break and if it works for you, why change? But most modern consumers want more up to the minute, comprehensive information. Their time is valuable and their options are many, so an inefficient shopping experience will deter many.

I was referencing an experience I had while looking around Hatton Garden in London, and as I think about it now, I recall another occasion in another shop that saw the chap disappear out the front door to come back a few minutes later - I've a feeling that there may well be a strong, interconnected network between all the jewellers, what with being concentrated in such a small geographical area, so perhaps everyone is buying and selling to each other in order to meet the demands of customers that walk through their particular door, or perhaps there are a couple of 'big players' holding a lot of stock that everyone uses?

I don't know, but I find it all very interesting

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I was referencing an experience I had while looking around Hatton Garden in London, and as I think about it now, I recall another occasion in another shop that saw the chap disappear out the front door to come back a few minutes later - I've a feeling that there may well be a strong, interconnected network between all the jewellers, what with being concentrated in such a small geographical area, so perhaps everyone is buying and selling to each other in order to meet the demands of customers that walk through their particular door, or perhaps there are a couple of 'big players' holding a lot of stock that everyone uses?

I don't know, but I find it all very interesting

Yes, in many places (especially big cities) jewelers tend to cluster and do a lot of trading among themselves. They can access collective inventories which can get pretty large when you put them all together. This enables a degree of immediacy that is preferable to a pure virtual model. It tends to be more of a phone call process than a list thing: "I've got a customer looking for X, what have you got? Ok send it over." The diamond(s) quickly shows up on memo for the showing.

The process is usually not very transparent to the customer as the jeweler typically indicates that the diamond belongs to them but was out on memo to another jeweler. Everybody likes representing themselves as the supplier to the whole trade!