Huge diamond list; How to weed out?

[ollie808]

Hello I am new here and looking for some advice.
I have been provided a huge diamond list from a wholesaler, like 200+ diamonds; all within my 4C's. How do I weed out?

My issue is this: The list contains only the obvious 4C's as well as Depth%, Table%, Dimensions, and Florescence. There aren't any Crown/Pavilion angles nor descriptions of the Girdle. Is this normal? Am I missing some key info? The guy said because the list contains only super ideal round cut diamonds, the specifications for Crown/Pavilion/Girdle are all met.

So how do I pick a few from this list of 200?

Thanks!

 

[skypie]

who is this "wholesaler"? as far as I know, there is no such thing as a diamond wholesaler

 

[ollie808]

I might've used that term incorrectly...please disregard

 

[skypie]

well, in any event, who is the person/company giving you the list?

 

[farrahlyn]

highly doubtful they are all super ideal stones, they're not a dime a dozen. Seems like he's throwing around that term. Gia XXX, sure but there is a huge variance in that range.

You could start with limiting depth (60-62.3%) and table parameters (53-58%) but then you'd want to review the certs (GIA or AGS only) for the crown and pavillion parameters. In the end, you want that info on the stones.

 

[whitewave]

Can you give us some Gia numbers and we can look?

Like, give us 5 to start with.

 

[skypie]

the reason I'm asking about the identity of the vendor is because things sound a bit fishy...as others have indicated i doubt they are all super ideal. for instance are there any with table % greater than 58%? how about depth beyond 62% if so, those fail most definitions of super ideal.

 

[ollie808]

Hey thanks for the quick replies. Yes they are all GIAXXX with a field marked GIA Super Ideal (according the list). Are GIA numbers freely given out? Should I ask for those? Is a list of 200 Super Ideals completely absurd?

 

[ollie808]

skypie: the range of Table% is between 54-62% and Depth% between 59.2%-63.4%

 

[skypie]

another fishy point -- there is no such thing as "GIA Super Ideal" It would be called "triple Excellent" if rated by GIA ..Excellent Cut, Symmetry and Polish.

"Ideal" is only used by AGS.

 

[skypie]

yeah, some of those are way out of range for what would be considered "super-ideal" by anyone. something is fishy.

 

[whitewave]

skypie: the range of Table% is between 54-62% and Depth% between 59.2%-63.4%

Throw out anything not falling here:

Depth 60-62.3

Table 54-57

Pavilion 40.6 to 40.9

Crown 34-35

Your list is nearly guaranteed to have few, if any. Super ideals.

If this is Martin Sheffield, his do fall with HCA under 2

 

[ollie808]

Wow thank you so much. As far as GIA numbers are those freely disclosed?

 

[skypie]

Yes, GIA numbers aren't a secret

 

[sledge]

It's not uncommon for search criteria to exclude CA's and PA's. It's a pet peeve I have with many sites. It would be nice to know who is sending you this list.

More times than not, you get the list down to 20 or so and then start clicking on them and looking at the angles and inclusions shown on the GIA certs to help you weed out the non-contenders.

Here are the parameters I like to use:

Table = 54-57
Depth = 60-62.5
Fluor = depends on your preference a little, but normally none to medium
CA = 34-35
PA = 40.6-40.9

I will open this up a little if I'm not getting the results I need. Some beautiful stones can be found on the "fringes" but you will need additional imagery such as ASET and/or Idealscope to confirm performacne of the stone.

Also, no one else has mentioned this but the values reported on the GIA certs are AVERAGED and because of such, can make a stone that falls in the criteria look like poo in reality. Another reason you need the advanced imagery if possible.

 

[sledge]

Oh yeah, if you haven't found these sites yet, they will be useful:

AGS Proportions Chart:
https://agslab.com/docs/pbcg/AGSLProportionCharts.pdf

H&A DNA:
http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx

 

[ollie808]

Sledge: Yes it seems I have a list that excludes the CA and PAs. Should I be asking for the GIA numbers? Or since he does not have the CA and PA's, we can imply that he doesn't have the GIA numbers as well.

 

[skypie]

If the vendor cannot provide CA/PA numbers or GIA numbers you should walk away. This is basic information that any buyer needs to know before purchasing.

 

[ollie808]

skypie: He will provide them when he brings them in to show IRL. But as of now the list does not the contain that info. It seems extremely inefficient to need to physically bring in the stones to get these numbers but again, I don't know how the system works. So it's not that he's hiding the numbers (or is he??) but rather needs to bring them in first.

 

[whitewave]

skypie: He will provide them when he brings them in to show IRL. But as of now the list does not the contain that info. It seems extremely inefficient to need to physically bring in the stones to get these numbers but again, I don't know how the system works. So it's not that he's hiding the numbers (or is he??) but rather needs to bring them in first.

He’s acting weird. Where do you live? US? Yes, he has the GIA numbers, no he doesn’t need to bring the stones to have the numbers. (Generally speaking).

Does it seem to you that he has been truthful with you so far?

 

[whitewave]

Give him the list back and tell him you only want stones with the parameters we gave you. That that is my suggestion.

 

[skypie]

Yeah, I don't mean to scare you, OP...but so far the presentation of information has been a bit odd, to say the least. It could very well be there are a few super ideals within the lot, but sounds like the vendor hasn't exactly been forthcoming with the vital info.

 

[skypie]

This doesn't really make sense. It's not like he's going to be measuring the CA/PA in front of you when he brings the stones. He should have the GIA #s which means he could look up the CA and PA angles.

skypie: He will provide them when he brings them in to show IRL. But as of now the list does not the contain that info. It seems extremely inefficient to need to physically bring in the stones to get these numbers but again, I don't know how the system works. So it's not that he's hiding the numbers (or is he??) but rather needs to bring them in first.

 

[ollie808]

Yes I am in the US. It does seem a bit inefficient to me. He has been pleasant to deal with and I have a handful of friends who went through him. I don't think they did nearly as much research as I am doing, so I take their recommendations with a grain of salt. I will tell him specific parameters and see how he responds.

 

[skypie]

This is a safer approach. I'm interested to hear how many of the 200 meet the criteria for super-ideal that most on this forum agree upon

Yes I am in the US. It does seem a bit inefficient to me. He has been pleasant to deal with and I have a handful of friends who went through him. I don't think they did nearly as much research as I am doing, so I take their recommendations with a grain of salt. I will tell him specific parameters and see how he responds.

 

[farrahlyn]

ditto what @whitewave has outlined. You can decide where to go from there. meantime, whats your budget? Would you ike use to look for stones for you just to compare wtih what he offers? most of us like to search out a great stone & deal!

 

[sledge]

Sledge: Yes it seems I have a list that excludes the CA and PAs. Should I be asking for the GIA numbers? Or since he does not have the CA and PA's, we can imply that he doesn't have the GIA numbers as well.

Is he sharing some sort of a printed or Excel list? Or are you going to his website and have limited search options?

If a web list, it should be something similar to the screen shots I've captured below:

1. Enter search criteria (even PS search engine is limited on criteria )




2. List of available stones and suppliers that meet your criteria. For example, I'm selecting the first B2C stone.



3. It takes me to the B2C website. I can review more details about the diamond. In this case, you can see there are actual images below the big diamond picture. That is good. For most GIA certified stones, you won't have all those images.

Either way, in this example, you click on the View Certificate link to pull up the cert.




4. Now this particular stone has an AGS cert, but you can see where it has the address from B2C and then the cert itself has all required info on the diamond. The GIA certs look a little different but more or less work the same way.

If the vendor cannot provide CA/PA numbers or GIA numbers you should walk away. This is basic information that any buyer needs to know before purchasing.

Agreed. In today's world, it's not unreasonable to expect this information. If it doesn't have a cert, then pass (unless you really, really trust your jeweler). If it has a cert other than AGS or GIA I'd also pass. And really, I prefer AGS certs.

skypie: He will provide them when he brings them in to show IRL. But as of now the list does not the contain that info. It seems extremely inefficient to need to physically bring in the stones to get these numbers but again, I don't know how the system works. So it's not that he's hiding the numbers (or is he??) but rather needs to bring them in first.

On one hand I am impressed he's so willing to bring in stones. Most dealers don't like to do that until they are certain you will buy. Reasoning is simple as it's a cash flow and inventory issue.

I'd just point blank tell him you need more info before he brings in any stones as you want to review the angles and ensure you are getting an ideal cut stone.

 

[ollie808]

Sledge thanks so much for assembling that post. It's a printed list not a website. He reiterated he has to bring in our selected stones, at which point all certs and numbers will be had, and we can reject any or all stones at no cost. I may as well see through the process once and back out if necessary? Again I understand how inefficient this seems, but it costs me nothing.

 

[whitewave]

Sledge thanks so much for assembling that post. It's a printed list not a website. He reiterated he has to bring in our selected stones, at which point all certs and numbers will be had, and we can reject any or all stones at no cost. I may as well see through the process once and back out if necessary? Again I understand how inefficient this seems, but it costs me nothing.

You could be done tonight if we helped you. Lol

I suggest you do not put down a deposit.

 

[sledge]

Sledge thanks so much for assembling that post. It's a printed list not a website. He reiterated he has to bring in our selected stones, at which point all certs and numbers will be had, and we can reject any or all stones at no cost. I may as well see through the process once and back out if necessary? Again I understand how inefficient this seems, but it costs me nothing.

Actually @ollie808, time is our most valuable resource so it costs you quite a bit.

But yes, monetarily it has no impact on you assuming you couldn't use your time, energy and effort to otherwise profit yourself.

I also find it highly inefficient and would not want to filter through 200 diamonds. With today's technology, there is no reason you can't drop by the store and give him some more criteria to narrow that list.

What is your overall list of criteria?

- Budget
- Carats, or minimum dimensions
- Cut
- Color
- Clarity
- Type of stone (assume round?)