How warm would you go?

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/16/2009 3:26:52 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
So we can agree there is no proof that all diamonds from Australia fluoresce- I believe that the fact is not all do.
there are other mines in Australia where not all diamonds fluoresce - I referred to Argyle and my experiance
It''s also not true that all brown diamonds that do exhibit fluorescence have blue fluorescence. why even mention it? I never did?
Some brown diamonds certainly do show other colors of fluorescence.

RD Ii have not looked on your site, but perhaps you are claiming all the brown diamonds you sell are from Argyle?
Or is there another different reason for your strange extrapolation of my words in this post?

 

[Demon]

Date: 2/16/2009 1:59:35 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Debbi- my apologies- I was referring to Garry''s statement, not yours.

I kind of think he made it in jest- as it seems to be a very broad statement- and Ive found that it''s not the case that all Argyle diamonds have fluorescence.

In terms of why a diamond might look whiter in sunlight....blue fluorescence could cause that, but so could other factors.
Are your diamonds round?


PS- thanks for the nice words about our site!!!

No apologies necessary. I just wasn''t sure how clear I was.

Yes, they''re all rounds. Does cut have an impact on looking whiter in sunlight?

 

[Demon]

Date: 2/16/2009 2:56:18 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 2/16/2009 1:59:35 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Debbi- my apologies- I was referring to Garry''s statement, not yours.

I kind of think he made it in jest- as it seems to be a very broad statement- and Ive found that it''s not the case that all Argyle diamonds have fluorescence.

In terms of why a diamond might look whiter in sunlight....blue fluorescence could cause that, but so could other factors.
Are your diamonds round?


PS- thanks for the nice words about our site!!!

I have not undertaken an actual formal study RD, and most that I see are not (or never) certified.
Among the champagne colours the colour of fluoro is always blue.
Of course there are many champagne colours from other sources that may not fluoresce

Mine are uncertified, but I trust the vendor as to where the diamonds came from. It''ll be interesting to see if mine do flouresce.

So, your comment wasn''t tongue in cheek? All the Argyle champagnes you''ve seen do flouresce?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 2/16/2009 2:56:18 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 2/16/2009 1:59:35 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Debbi- my apologies- I was referring to Garry''s statement, not yours.

I kind of think he made it in jest- as it seems to be a very broad statement- and Ive found that it''s not the case that all Argyle diamonds have fluorescence.

In terms of why a diamond might look whiter in sunlight....blue fluorescence could cause that, but so could other factors.
Are your diamonds round?


PS- thanks for the nice words about our site!!!

I have not undertaken an actual formal study RD, and most that I see are not (or never) certified.
Among the champagne colours the colour of fluoro is always blue.
Of course there are many champagne colours from other sources that may not fluoresce

Hi Garry, the word "argyle" does not appear on our site. To the best of my knowledge pinpointing where a diamond was mined is not possible. If someone buys directly from Argyle, then that would be a reason to claim the diamonds are from Australia- but the browns we carry come from many different sources- none of whom purport the diamonds to be Argyle.

Your statement, highlighted in blue.
My experience is that not all brown diamonds that do exhibit fluorescence have a blue fluorescence

I am only pointing out to those reading that it''s really not such a black and white issue.
As you mentioned, not all brown diamonds come from the Argyle mines.
Of course, you being in Australia, I defer to your knowledge of Argyle- do they have any literature that states all their diamonds have Blue Fluorescence?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Date: 2/16/2009 4:08:10 PM
Author: Demon

Date: 2/16/2009 1:59:35 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Debbi- my apologies- I was referring to Garry''s statement, not yours.

I kind of think he made it in jest- as it seems to be a very broad statement- and Ive found that it''s not the case that all Argyle diamonds have fluorescence.

In terms of why a diamond might look whiter in sunlight....blue fluorescence could cause that, but so could other factors.
Are your diamonds round?


PS- thanks for the nice words about our site!!!

No apologies necessary. I just wasn''t sure how clear I was.

Yes, they''re all rounds. Does cut have an impact on looking whiter in sunlight?

Yes- the shape certainly does make a difference.
Round diamonds generally have a harder time "broadcasting" their body color.
So, if you put them in bright sunlight, it actually could have the effect of increasing the white light coming off the diamond..


In terms of the whole Argyle question- I am very interested.
To say all the diamonds coming from a particular mine r mines fluoresce is a broad statement.
If that''s Argyle''s position, I''d be interested to know!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/15/2009 6:11:42 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Date: 2/15/2009 3:27:00 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Thanks for the suggestion Garry- next time I'm at the library I'll be sure to have a look!

Generally I base my posts on practical experience. When we have a question about GIA procedures we simply call them up and ask questions- we have an excellent account representative. We find them to be very gracious in discussing procedure and methods, , and use their services frequently. I don;t know that I'd use the term 'come clean'- as if GIA was hiding anything.
I have found that indeed, color grading has changed a bit over the years. My feeling is that many stones that would have gotten Fancy Light Yellow now get Y-Z- that GIA has toughened the standards.
But aside from the article, do you agree with what I wrote?
Specifically the part about how it's far more difficult grading a Q-R vs S-T as compared to grading an F versus a G......

Do you see a lot of U-V, W-X and Y-Z stones in Australia Garry?

We see more Argyle light Champagne (TLB's) which because a lot of people live outdoor lives always look better with plenty of UV around. (Argyle diamonds fluoresce).

Perhaps you caould ask for the date when GIA changed:
1. their color grading tubes
2. The distance between the tube and stone for color grading

RD I have only ever been discussing my experiance regarding the post above.
You introduced the idea of browns from other places.
I never did.

Also I am waiting to see if you can answer the 2 questions about the dates (not what they do, which is well covered in their articles and by others who research GIA lab techniques).
Just the dates.

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI all!

Garry, I do have a call in to GIA to see if we can get an answer to your question.

IN the meantime, there have been a few other questions raised here....
1) do all Argyle Diamonds have Fluorescence? You have mentioned that "Argyle diamonds fluoresce"
2) is there a way to verify where a brown ( or any) diamond was mined?
3) you''ve also mentioned that "Among the champagne colours the colour of fluoro is always blue." ( the quotes in blue are taken directly from your posts)


I strongly believe that the answer to questions one and two is NO-
We know the answer to question 3- not all brown diamonds that fluoresce exhibit blue. No matter where they were mined. We''ve had them with Yellow Fl- even Orange Fluorescence.

I''m really not mentioning any of this to argue- but you''ve raised a few points that I believe are relevant to this conversation. Being that you are in Australia, maybe you can shed some light on questions of Argyle diamonds.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/17/2009 1:36:10 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI all!

Garry, I do have a call in to GIA to see if we can get an answer to your question.

IN the meantime, there have been a few other questions raised here....
1) do all Argyle Diamonds have Fluorescence? You have mentioned that ''Argyle diamonds fluoresce''
2) is there a way to verify where a brown ( or any) diamond was mined?
3) you''ve also mentioned that ''Among the champagne colours the colour of fluoro is always blue.'' ( the quotes in blue are taken directly from your posts)


I strongly believe that the answer to questions one and two is NO-
We know the answer to question 3- not all brown diamonds that fluoresce exhibit blue. No matter where they were mined. We''ve had them with Yellow Fl- even Orange Fluorescence.

I''m really not mentioning any of this to argue- but you''ve raised a few points that I believe are relevant to this conversation. Being that you are in Australia, maybe you can shed some light on questions of Argyle diamonds.

David please read what I write.
For the second time - I never ever said that all brown diamonds are fluoro. I am only speaking about MY experiance with diamonds I KNOW to be from Argyle.

I have just examined many stones in a dark spot under long wave UV. All the champagnes and pinks that I know for certain are from Argyle fluoresced bluish or powdery white - it was hard to ID a colour in the darker goods in both pink and brown, and overall they seemsed to have very weak fluoro, and the deeper body color made it hard to decide.

In colourless diamonds, when we had a regular supply (we dont have a guaranteed supply anymore - sometimes I see a yellowish cape stone and I know that is not possible from Argyle, so dont trust the source of 3rd party cutter they use), and whenever I checked (never all) it seemed all were powdrey blue and many I would reject because they were milky petrolly. I can not remeber a colourless argyle not being fluoro.

I have a few greenish chanpagne stones - they all are yellwish green fluor, and quite strong. I know this is not an Argyle stone.

This still does not constitue a "study".
There is an article in G&G from about 5 years ago - it may have the info but I have spent enough time on this now.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Garry- My connection is someone who was a supervisor at GIA for many years.
According to this person, GIA does not acknowledge any changes in color grading- except a major change which took place in 1995.
The reason for the change was that the industry itself had changed.
Radiant cuts had become much more prominent, which in turn led to a lot of "cape" rough ( light yellow and darker yellow) being cut into light yellow radiant cuts.
Before that much of the light yellow rough was thought to be practically worthless.
The increase of Fancy Colors coming to market necessitated GIA expanding the grading of these fancy color.
I believe that in 1995 GIA added more detailed grades- such as "Fancy Deep"

It is my experience- having dealt with many thousands of Fancy Colors graded by GIA , that they really do an amazing job- and they are incredibly consistent as well.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Well, although I love OEC diamonds, I wouldn''t want a light yellow or brown one. (Looks like I''m the only one that feels this way

) Others have pointed out that it''s more the way the diamond looks than its color grading. Light warmth is wonderful, I''m just not a fan of slightly yellowish diamonds or colored diamonds except RED ones. . .I''d love one of those. . .but can only dream about that!)

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 2/18/2009 1:40:14 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Garry- My connection is someone who was a supervisor at GIA for many years.
According to this person, GIA does not acknowledge any changes in color grading- except a major change which took place in 1995.
The reason for the change was that the industry itself had changed.
Radiant cuts had become much more prominent, which in turn led to a lot of ''cape'' rough ( light yellow and darker yellow) being cut into light yellow radiant cuts.
Before that much of the light yellow rough was thought to be practically worthless.
The increase of Fancy Colors coming to market necessitated GIA expanding the grading of these fancy color.
I believe that in 1995 GIA added more detailed grades- such as ''Fancy Deep''

It is my experience- having dealt with many thousands of Fancy Colors graded by GIA , that they really do an amazing job- and they are incredibly consistent as well.

He better read their latest article too then RD.

 

[Rockdiamond]

It''s very lilkely he was involved writing it Garry.