Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

How to tell which EGL lab the diamond is from

Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.

havernell

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
571
I've read lots of posts on this forum saying that if you go for an EGL stone, make sure its from EGL-USA and not one of the other labs. However, I've looked at some EGL certifications that my jeweler/family friend has showed me, and I can't figure out how to tell which lab it's coming from. It does not seems to be printed on the report anywhere.

I've read that EGL USA and Canada stones ID number begin with US and CA respectively (correct me if I'm wrong). But one of the certs I saw had an ID number of t-########. Clearly, this is not a EGL-USA stone (so I'm not going to get it), but I'm just curious as to which other lab it is from. Does the "t" at the beginning tell you the lab, or perhaps the number of digits (in this case it was 8 digits)?

I tried to google this info but couldn't find anything. If anyone knows the answer, I'd appreciate learning from you. Thanks!
 

Sponsored By:

Related topics:

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Hopefully, DBM, your answer will help many.

Now, here's a new question, that has nothing whatsoever to do with EGL USA and what they do or don't do, and turns the question around...

Although one might imagine why a diamond cutter (is that who sends these to a certificate agency, or is it the wholesaler) would submit a diamond to GIA vs AGS...because people will argue even on this board, if even naively, for GIA's superiority, what would be the circumstance that would help us understand why a stone would be sent to EGL USA?

Which of the following might apply:

- most of their stones would not score well with GIA (or AGS), and so a few would flow through that actually would, and the extra effort wasn't made to separate them out
- they have friends at EGL, and want to support their effort, even knowing the premium would be substantially less with EGL
- they don't know that they get less money with EGL (not reasonable, right?), but have heard good things about EGL USA, and want to use them
- they can only use certifying agencies that begin with E (their boss told them this), and they throw dice to determine which EGL it would be (sometimes using Israel, sometimes Europe, sometimes LA, sometimes USA...are these four of them...and are there more?)
- the determination of which agency used for certifying the diamond is random, and anyone might be used by a person at a house at any time, for no good reason, and so the choice of certifying agent, on the part of the agent submitted, should not be attended to

Given these 5 reasons, they seem most to least likely, in order of appearance (well, maybe reverse the last two?). How likely is the first one, even.

Should discriminating buyers just stop reviewing EGL options? Why or why not.
 

havernell

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
571
DBM- Thanks for your reply. I had already find that website you mentioned and tried to check the ID number of the diamond I''m referring to, but no results came up. This site is just for diamonds that are EGL USA. So a stone from another EGL lab does not produce results through this search. So, it basically confirmed that this t-######## stone was not an EGL USA stone, but did not give me any clue as to which EGL lab it did come from.

So, the orginial question still stands. Anyone know which EGL lab assignes ID numbers to stones that begin with "t"?


Regular Guy- interersting question as well. Hopefully the experts can weigh in on both of our queries.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
rushing a little.. but couldn''t resist :)

Havernell - yes, that would basically say it''s not from USA. My feeling is once you know it''s not from USA, who cares where it''s from anymore-- the rest aren''t accurate enough IMO

Regular Guy-- alot to talk about . Primarily you are correct in what you''re thinking but mistaken in the context. Most of the time a stone is submitted to EGLUSA over GIA (AGS isn''t really part of this discussion frankly, most dealers atleast in the district i think will choose between GIA and EGLUSA) in order to gain the UPPED grade (and btw not always is EGLUSA lenient, there are times it''s gone the other way with GIA giving a better grade, they''re not as common but also happen FYI) [say it''s a borderline VS2-SI1 or G-H or whatever] but it''s not then sold as the G/VS2 with the price of a GIA CERTIFICATE. In other words, say for example i have a diamond and i feel it''s beautiufl SI1, excelletn cut, yada, yada, yada, Now i can sell it as a GIA SI1 for let''s say 9% off the list price (which in this example is a little high) OR i can sell it as a VS2 for say 25% off the list price -- it comes down to the same thing, just a question of who''s grading scale you want to use.

Also, and this is just me for me but not the primary reason, I find EGLUSA much. much, much easier to deal with in virtually everything as a dealer. It reduces my overhead cost and turnaround time rather than submitting to the GIA whom i always have to run after and call everyday to ask "are my stones ready" among other inconveniences ... it''s a pain in the neck.

more to say but got to go
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Thanks DBM. Seems like some important issues have something to do with who is who, and how this matters to strategic intent.

For example, Havernell knows, along with a (relative) handful of Pricescope readers, that EGL USA does better work than all of the rest of EGL. Look how much work he has to do to identify which one is the EGL. Are dealers, working on behalf of their customers, so different than him? Since all EGL diamonds on lists appear with the same veneer, how to get the value from having used them vs some other EGL.

If guys on the street don''t largely know the benefit, further, of having used EGL, how to take advantage of the fact that you know it''s an accurate read. To the public, the discount could be for a different EGL, and the grade would be higher.

I''m just trying to basically understand the circumstance under which a stone that is actually well cut, would be sent to any EGL to begin with, let alone EGL USA, who would then grade it with more accuracy, once they get it, then a different EGL.
 

Richard Sherwood

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 25, 2002
Messages
4,924
Date: 11/21/2006 12:11:57 PM
Author:havernell
But one of the certs I saw had an ID number of t-########. Clearly, this is not a EGL-USA stone (so I''m not going to get it), but I''m just curious as to which other lab it is from. Does the ''t'' at the beginning tell you the lab, or perhaps the number of digits (in this case it was 8 digits)?
Was the "T" followed by the number "2"? If so, it is an EGL-Israel cert, the weakest in the trade (in my opinion).

Figure the color as being over graded 2, possibly 3 grades. Sometimes their clarity is correct. Sometimes not.

I just graded an EGL-Israel "G VVS2" as a "J VVS2", to give you an example. What''s interesting was that the customer paid a fair "J" price for the stone. Over graded, but priced properly.
 

havernell

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 10, 2006
Messages
571
Date: 11/21/2006 2:47:55 PM
Author: DBM
rushing a little.. but couldn''t resist :)

Havernell - yes, that would basically say it''s not from USA. My feeling is once you know it''s not from USA, who cares where it''s from anymore-- the rest aren''t accurate enough IMO
Well, with all due respect, I for one care (or else I wouldn''t be asking the question). Just because I''m not going to get a non-USA EGL diamond for my engagement ring, that doesn''t mean that down the line I won''t consider EGL stones for a pendant or earings (to keep the cost down). Afterall, I''m not made of money. Plus, aren''t I allowed to just be curious?


Date: 11/21/2006 3:15:24 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood
Was the "T" followed by the number "2"? If so, it is an EGL-Israel cert, the weakest in the trade (in my opinion).


Richard- Thanks for responding! Yes, the t was followed by a 2, so sounds like its from Israel. Interesting to know. For future reference, is their a chart or something else online that shows what ID numbers codes the different EGL labs use (so I can just check for myself from now on)? Thanks again!
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 11/21/2006 3:07:41 PM
Author: Regular Guy
Thanks DBM. Seems like some important issues have something to do with who is who, and how this matters to strategic intent.

For example, Havernell knows, along with a (relative) handful of Pricescope readers, that EGL USA does better work than all of the rest of EGL. Look how much work he has to do to identify which one is the EGL. Are dealers, working on behalf of their customers, so different than him? Since all EGL diamonds on lists appear with the same veneer, how to get the value from having used them vs some other EGL.

If guys on the street don''t largely know the benefit, further, of having used EGL, how to take advantage of the fact that you know it''s an accurate read. To the public, the discount could be for a different EGL, and the grade would be higher.

I''m just trying to basically understand the circumstance under which a stone that is actually well cut, would be sent to any EGL to begin with, let alone EGL USA, who would then grade it with more accuracy, once they get it, then a different EGL.
I''m not sure i fully understood your words but i think your question is how to differentiate when many online places just use the word "EGL" to include USA, is that your question? My answer to that would have to be there isnt unless you take a look at a scan of the cert. Every EGLUSA has the words USA prominently displayed.

This is all new with online. Remember that it used to be a brick-and-mortar relationship in which a jeweler you trusted sifted through al the various cert name games and charged a fair market price for the diamond regardless of it being called a G VVS2 or a JVVS2 as Richard pointed out. As the industry becomes more obsessed with "the paper" the more the specificity of displaying EGLUSA vs other EGLs online will come to be.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 11/21/2006 3:33:41 PM
Author: havernell

Date: 11/21/2006 2:47:55 PM
Author: DBM
rushing a little.. but couldn''t resist :)

Havernell - yes, that would basically say it''s not from USA. My feeling is once you know it''s not from USA, who cares where it''s from anymore-- the rest aren''t accurate enough IMO
Well, with all due respect, I for one care (or else I wouldn''t be asking the question). Just because I''m not going to get a non-USA EGL diamond for my engagement ring, that doesn''t mean that down the line I won''t consider EGL stones for a pendant or earings (to keep the cost down). Afterall, I''m not made of money. Plus, aren''t I allowed to just be curious?
Relax. I think you took my words the wrong way. I''m just trying to say that with a different EGL you really wont'' know anything about the stone...
Say it''s a G / VS1 --- It could be an H SI1, an J/VS1, a I/SI1, .. and so on.. it''s almost meaningless because of teh possibliities is what i''m trying to say...
 

Lynn B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
May 9, 2004
Messages
5,609
Date: 11/21/2006 3:15:24 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 11/21/2006 12:11:57 PM
Author:havernell
But one of the certs I saw had an ID number of t-########. Clearly, this is not a EGL-USA stone (so I''m not going to get it), but I''m just curious as to which other lab it is from. Does the ''t'' at the beginning tell you the lab, or perhaps the number of digits (in this case it was 8 digits)?
Was the ''T'' followed by the number ''2''? If so, it is an EGL-Israel cert, the weakest in the trade (in my opinion).

Figure the color as being over graded 2, possibly 3 grades. Sometimes their clarity is correct. Sometimes not.

I just graded an EGL-Israel ''G VVS2'' as a ''J VVS2'', to give you an example. What''s interesting was that the customer paid a fair ''J'' price for the stone. Over graded, but priced properly.
Hey Rich,
Thanks for the info!
Just curious -- was the stone well cut and beautiful?
And since the diamond was priced fairly for what it really was, could PART of the issue here be that some people prefer the softer grading labs for, um... "bragging rights"???!
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
Date: 11/21/2006 3:37:43 PM
Author: DBM

This is all new with online. Remember that it used to be a brick-and-mortar relationship in which a jeweler you trusted sifted through al the various cert name games and charged a fair market price for the diamond regardless of it being called a G VVS2 or a JVVS2 as Richard pointed out. As the industry becomes more obsessed with ''the paper'' the more the specificity of displaying EGLUSA vs other EGLs online will come to be.
I don''t mean to be oblique. I understand how things are somewhat new...relatively. But, this is primarily a consumer site. Where there are opportunities to make things simple for consumers to understand and act on, that''s generally seen as a good thing here. With this thread, I thought I''d seize the opportunity.

I''ll go ahead and use extremes to make the point. Maybe someone can help me with it. The motivation is this thread, but the markers have been left in previous threads.

Usually, shoppers here do want a well cut diamond. Also, they want value. They will include in the places they shop those elements that can give them both. The question du jour today, here, is...for those looking for a well cut diamond, can they include EGL USA?

Can you get from here (EGL USA) to there (a really well cut, beautiful, diamond)? If you want to get...there, and you can''t see how you can get from here to there...probably better not to go....here.

If shopping for a diamond were like shopping for a motivational speaker for a Martin Luther King Rally, you could ask Michael Richards to speak for you. But would you?

In previous posts, Neil and Paul have both pointed to the pattern of the best grading agencies consistently being associated with the pattern of the best cut diamonds. JohnQ has been particularly politic on this subject. DBM, you do raise micro issues of the economics in your post, but...regardless of the fact that a really excellent diamond could be had from any of the EGLs, if you can''t come up with a reasoned explanation for why it would be found there...seems like good reason to exclude them from your search pool at the outset (despite their doing a spiffy job, once they got a hold of the stone).
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
lol :) love the post. Now i understand.

My thinking would be that as far as cut goes EGLUSA is the same as the others. Given the assumption that an ideal proportion is 62.3 and 55 give or take somewhat,those numbers are numbers of an ideal cut. I don't think there's much descrepancy between the labs when it comes to empirical data like table and depth measurements..

As far as why would an ideal cut diamond be placed into EGLUSA -- for the borderline color or clarity as mentioned previously.

does that answer the question?
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,951
DBM, you''re saying it''s 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.


Date: 11/21/2006 5:24:45 PM
Author: DBM

As far as why would an ideal cut diamond be placed into EGLUSA -- for the borderline color or clarity as mentioned previously.

does that answer the question?
...and you''re saying people might want to use any of a number of strategies to up the price. I don''t think that''s right.

Regarding the rest...


Date: 11/21/2006 5:24:45 PM
Author: DBM

My thinking would be that as far as cut goes EGLUSA is the same as the others. Given the assumption that an ideal proportion is 62.3 and 55 give or take somewhat,those numbers are numbers of an ideal cut. I don''t think there''s much descrepancy between the labs when it comes to empirical data like table and depth measurements..
I think this is first generation analysis of cut, in a third generation world. See here, using terms of art (60/60), making yet another point, to get at your point.

For shoppers who do value cut, and the kind of analysis AGS does to yield AGS0 for light performance these days...how exclusive is AGS for this, even if we allow GIA?

P.S....


lol :) love the post.
thanks, still.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,687
The primary reasons to send a stone to EGL-USA are:
1) They’re cheaper.
2) They’re faster
3) They have a more generous grading scale and apply it more freely.
4) They’re easy to get along with.
5) Habit. There’s a convenience and a cost and time savings associated with just using the same lab for everything.
The reasons to send a stone to GIA are:
1) Consumer recognition of the GIA brand results in faster sales and a premium price.
2) CYA. Even with their recent troubles, nothing plays to a jury in a diamond grading case quite like ‘GIA certified’.
3) Habit
The primary reason to send a stone to AGS is:
1) AGS-0
The reasons to send a stone to an unknown or house lab are:
1) All of the things on the EGL-USA list above plus
2) Control.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 
Status
Not open for further replies. Please create a new topic or request for this thread to be opened.
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top