How to set a POH in a halo & opinions

[yopeyone]

Could Jon at GOG find you an actual antique cushion that met your requirements, if an AVC is out of the question? There are antiques out there that perform well, and Jon could be your eyes for something that would be truly unique.

I've been exchanging emails with him and am actually going into visit. One thing they found for me is a regular, unbranded cushion which is within my budget and specs. But I need to size it up in terms of how it performs vs. lower colored AVC's and POH.

 

[E B]

What size range are you wanting to stay in?

 

[yopeyone]

What size range are you wanting to stay in?

Looking for 1.5-1.75 from a ct standpoint - at least 6.5+ x 6.5+ mm... I, J, K, L, M but I-J preferable
Budget - 11-12k (for the diamond)

 

[diamondseeker2006]

You actually have about 4 potentially good stones to look at at GOG. That is terrific that you can go there and see them for yourself and also see the BK and other settings in person. I would still avoid the PoH because I do not think that is what she is asking for. But one of the others surely will be a winner for you! Please come back and let us know!

 

[Mara]

Have you seen this AVC on pre-loved? It's being sold by a long-term PS'er...

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/1-25-ct-f-si1-august-vintage-cushion-t179894.html']https://www.pricescope.com/forum/preloved-ps-jewels/1-25-ct-f-si1-august-vintage-cushion-t179894.html[/URL]

 

[yopeyone]

You actually have about 4 potentially good stones to look at at GOG. That is terrific that you can go there and see them for yourself and also see the BK and other settings in person. I would still avoid the PoH because I do not think that is what she is asking for. But one of the others surely will be a winner for you! Please come back and let us know!

From a value standpoint, the POH is by far the best (this is the one they had on sale - it would normally retail for ~8k more than they are asking (this is per GOG themselves)). It's also an awesome looking stone. Here's a comparable stone: http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/8061/

I am always drawn to a great value. Again, I am shopping for this with the help of somebody who GF has discussed ring prefs with in detail. It was this individuals opinion to consider the POH. Thought process: GF isn't a diamond expert - she only knows the non branded standard cuts & shapes. As asschers have the same shape as a POH, I was told to consider it. However, the fact that it's a deal and WE think it's nice can't be the sole judge. We need to look in person and consider GFs tastes, etc.

 

[Spesh2011]

My thought is just because it's a good value, doesn't mean it's a good purchase. Bottom line is when set, it's reallllly going to look like a princess. And because your GF doesn't know about branded stones and shapes, I think she'll even be less likely to love a POH. To her it'll still look like a princess ... a stone we already know she doesn't like.

I hope you fall in love with an AVC. It will be gorgeous set in a rose gold halo!

 

[milton333]

I don't think the POH is going to look like a princess. I think the cut corners, if properly emphasized, eliminate that. Look at webdiva's setting - it's the perfect way to set the same type of stone. It's an octagonal halo with a small airline to add size an further emphasize the shape. It's Bev K, but IMO far superior to the other Bev Ks suggested above. If I recall correctly, webdiva modified the standard Bev K setting a bit and it was still about $1,900, so it may be doable within budget if you don't tinker with the basic setting. I'd look up webdiva's profile and read through her thread on her setting.

 

[Dougsgirl]

Just my 2 cents...
I am currently designing my dream ring. Like your girl, I, too, do not like the round brilliants or princess cut diamonds. Too common. Too boring. I love the antique cuts (old English cut and old mine cut) and I love cushion cuts. I ended up getting the best of both worlds with an AVC. Mine is a 1.87 J SI1. It is amazing!!

I have been following your posts and I just have to say that I do not like the POH. At all. I don't care that it has cut corners. It does nothing for me.

If she has tastes like mine... Go cushion. Period. AVC if you can swing it. Or antique cushion if you can find one. NO ONE will have a diamond like hers!!

Hope this helps. Good luck!!

 

[yopeyone]

I don't think the POH is going to look like a princess. I think the cut corners, if properly emphasized, eliminate that. Look at webdiva's setting - it's the perfect way to set the same type of stone. It's an octagonal halo with a small airline to add size an further emphasize the shape. It's Bev K, but IMO far superior to the other Bev Ks suggested above. If I recall correctly, webdiva modified the standard Bev K setting a bit and it was still about $1,900, so it may be doable within budget if you don't tinker with the basic setting. I'd look up webdiva's profile and read through her thread on her setting.

Thank you for your suggestions. I'll have to see how it can be set when I go to GOG

 

[yopeyone]

Just my 2 cents...
I am currently designing my dream ring. Like your girl, I, too, do not like the round brilliants or princess cut diamonds. Too common. Too boring. I love the antique cuts (old English cut and old mine cut) and I love cushion cuts. I ended up getting the best of both worlds with an AVC. Mine is a 1.87 J SI1. It is amazing!!

I have been following your posts and I just have to say that I do not like the POH. At all. I don't care that it has cut corners. It does nothing for me.

If she has tastes like mine... Go cushion. Period. AVC if you can swing it. Or antique cushion if you can find one. NO ONE will have a diamond like hers!!

Hope this helps. Good luck!!

That very well may be what happens. I'll see everything in person soon enough.

 

[rubybeth]

I don't think the POH is going to look like a princess. I think the cut corners, if properly emphasized, eliminate that. Look at webdiva's setting - it's the perfect way to set the same type of stone. It's an octagonal halo with a small airline to add size an further emphasize the shape. It's Bev K, but IMO far superior to the other Bev Ks suggested above. If I recall correctly, webdiva modified the standard Bev K setting a bit and it was still about $1,900, so it may be doable within budget if you don't tinker with the basic setting. I'd look up webdiva's profile and read through her thread on her setting.

The OP needs to realize, though, that if his future wife doesn't like princesses and wants something 'different,' she likely wants people to KNOW that it's different. People are going to look at her ring, regardless of a bezel emphasizing the cut corners, and immediately think it's a princess. I speak from experience: I have a square radiant. It has clipped corners, exactly like a POH or asscher, but EVERYBODY thinks it's a princess. I have to tell them it's a square radiant, and few people know what that even is (or if they seem genuinely interested, I tell them it's a Whiteflash X-Factor, which is the branded name no longer used, and NOBODY knows what that means).

Gypsy has said that people look at her asscher and compliment her on her lovely princess cut.

I'm not saying the OP should get one thing in particular, I'm just saying that if his girlfriend has specifically said no princesses or rounds, getting a stone with the faceting of a round and the basic outline of a princess is... not the best idea, regardless of price. She sounds like the type of lady who wants unique, even if that means a smaller stone.

 

[yopeyone]

I don't think the POH is going to look like a princess. I think the cut corners, if properly emphasized, eliminate that. Look at webdiva's setting - it's the perfect way to set the same type of stone. It's an octagonal halo with a small airline to add size an further emphasize the shape. It's Bev K, but IMO far superior to the other Bev Ks suggested above. If I recall correctly, webdiva modified the standard Bev K setting a bit and it was still about $1,900, so it may be doable within budget if you don't tinker with the basic setting. I'd look up webdiva's profile and read through her thread on her setting.

The OP needs to realize, though, that if his future wife doesn't like princesses and wants something 'different,' she likely wants people to KNOW that it's different. People are going to look at her ring, regardless of a bezel emphasizing the cut corners, and immediately think it's a princess. I speak from experience: I have a square radiant. It has clipped corners, exactly like a POH or asscher, but EVERYBODY thinks it's a princess. I have to tell them it's a square radiant, and few people know what that even is (or if they seem genuinely interested, I tell them it's a Whiteflash X-Factor, which is the branded name no longer used, and NOBODY knows what that means).

Gypsy has said that people look at her asscher and compliment her on her lovely princess cut.

I'm not saying the OP should get one thing in particular, I'm just saying that if his girlfriend has specifically said no princesses or rounds, getting a stone with the faceting of a round and the basic outline of a princess is... not the best idea, regardless of price. She sounds like the type of lady who wants unique, even if that means a smaller stone.

The same can be said about an AVR / AVC. For most people, something roundish in shape is "a round diamond" and squarish in shape is "a princess cut diamond". If they MAYBE realize it's a cushion, they won't know the difference between a vintage cut and standard cut. It's more about what looks good.

 

[Gypsy]

The same can be said about an AVR / AVC. For most people, something roundish in shape is "a round diamond" and squarish in shape is "a princess cut diamond". If they MAYBE realize it's a cushion, they won't know the difference between a vintage cut and standard cut. It's more about what looks good.

To you.

But you aren't buying this for you. FOR HER it's about something that doesn't look like a princess or a round at this point. She told you she likes cushions and asschers. Stick to those. That way even if she gets... is that a princess comments, she'll know she asked for it herself.

I ASKED for an asscher. I didn't know there were cushions (would have gotten one if I had). I didn't know they faced up smaller. I didn't appreciate old cuts at the time. And every time I get a 'princess' comment my eyes twitch. That said, I ASKED for the asscher so I do not for a second think-- if only he'd gotten me what I WANTED and ASKED FOR I wouldn't have this problem. If you get her the POH, you are on the hook for it.

I 100% agree that a stone with the faceting of a round and the shape of a square is a bad choice with the knowledge you have at this point. If you want the POH, find a way to have her mother, sister, cousin, best friend ASK HER what she thinks of it, and if she loves it buy it, And if she doesn't... don't.

Have them show her the Dream cut by Hearts on Fire. It's similar to the POH. See what she thinks of it.

 

[yopeyone]

The same can be said about an AVR / AVC. For most people, something roundish in shape is "a round diamond" and squarish in shape is "a princess cut diamond". If they MAYBE realize it's a cushion, they won't know the difference between a vintage cut and standard cut. It's more about what looks good.

To you.

But you aren't buying this for you. FOR HER it's about something that doesn't look like a princess or a round at this point. She told you she likes cushions and asschers. Stick to those. That way even if she gets... is that a princess comments, she'll know she asked for it herself.

I ASKED for an asscher. I didn't know there were cushions (would have gotten one if I had). I didn't know they faced up smaller. I didn't appreciate old cuts at the time. And every time I get a 'princess' comment my eyes twitch. That said, I ASKED for the asscher so I do not for a second think-- if only he'd gotten me what I WANTED and ASKED FOR I wouldn't have this problem. If you get her the POH, you are on the hook for it.

I 100% agree that a stone with the faceting of a round and the shape of a square is a bad choice with the knowledge you have at this point. If you want the POH, find a way to have her mother, sister, cousin, best friend ASK HER what she thinks of it, and if she loves it buy it, And if she doesn't... don't.

Have them show her the Dream cut by Hearts on Fire. It's similar to the POH. See what she thinks of it.

I understand your point - and I think we can go on forever about this. I would 100% agree with you if it weren't for this: I already have somebody that is quite familiar with GFs tastes telling me should would like the POH. This is where my confusion is coming from.

 

[mandasand]

Well, unless your confidant has shown the stone to your GF and got her approval, then I would stick with the cushion of asscher like she requested. We totally don't mean to beat you over the head with this. I get the fact that you want it to be a surprise, but I think if she "hates" princess cuts, then the "princess of hearts" should be ruled out. It's really pretty and lovely, but not for a girl that says she doesn't like princess cuts. It is basically a princess cut.

You are doing a great job educating yourself. I am also looking at AVCs and when my BF asked me what I wanted (I told him I want an antique cushion) he relates that to me wanting a "square" diamond. So, you are doing yourself a huge favor by all the research. And, you have an advantage because she told you what she likes and doesn't like. So, I think that is why you are getting push back from us ladies here.

If you are concerned that a square cushion will look like a princess, then consider a rectangle shape. The AVC faceting is chunky enough that I don't think it would pass as a princess and it is unique, which is what she wants.

Now, I know that you are peeved that one stone you liked is now gone. I get that too. Pretty much every stone we had our eye on is now gone. Then, a few weeks later, new stones come up. So, try not to focus too much on that. GOG will be able to show you a bunch of stuff when you get there. And, not to get your hopes up, but sometimes stones on hold come back. It has happened with two stones I was looking at.

 

[webdiva]

Well, unless your confidant has shown the stone to your GF and got her approval, then I would stick with the cushion of asscher like she requested. We totally don't mean to beat you over the head with this. I get the fact that you want it to be a surprise, but I think if she "hates" princess cuts, then the "princess of hearts" should be ruled out. It's really pretty and lovely, but not for a girl that says she doesn't like princess cuts. It is basically a princess cut.

A POH is NOT basically a princess cut. There's nothing about it that is similar.

As someone that love the asscher shape but more faceted cushion/radiant look - I loved the "compromise" of a POH. The POH is in fact better than anything I had ever seen before researching diamonds.

Your option is to buy the stone, but it in a temp solitaire and upgrade with GOG if she doesn't like it. If she does like it, she can pick out a setting she likes. She gets the surprise engagement, plus none of the risk of not liking her ring and feeling guilty about that (many women on here do). Problem solved.

 

[mandasand]

Well, unless your confidant has shown the stone to your GF and got her approval, then I would stick with the cushion of asscher like she requested. We totally don't mean to beat you over the head with this. I get the fact that you want it to be a surprise, but I think if she "hates" princess cuts, then the "princess of hearts" should be ruled out. It's really pretty and lovely, but not for a girl that says she doesn't like princess cuts. It is basically a princess cut.

A POH is NOT basically a princess cut. There's nothing about it that is similar.

As someone that love the asscher shape but more faceted cushion/radiant look - I loved the "compromise" of a POH. The POH is in fact better than anything I had ever seen before researching diamonds.

Your option is to buy the stone, but it in a temp solitaire and upgrade with GOG if she doesn't like it. If she does like it, she can pick out a setting she likes. She gets the surprise engagement, plus none of the risk of not liking her ring and feeling guilty about that (many women on here do). Problem solved.

Hey webdiva - just to set me straight, because I didn't want to give bad advice...the princess of hearts is a square hearts and arrows diamond. So, instead of the H&A round, it is square...so, yes, not a princess cut.

Is this "unique," yes. It is an ideal cut diamond and will be beautiful. Webdiva can attest to that.

I'm pretty sure you are more than happy to exchange it if she doesn't like it. But, what if she doesn't say anything and is thinking the whole time "arg...he got me a princess cut diamond."

 

[yopeyone]

Well, unless your confidant has shown the stone to your GF and got her approval, then I would stick with the cushion of asscher like she requested. We totally don't mean to beat you over the head with this. I get the fact that you want it to be a surprise, but I think if she "hates" princess cuts, then the "princess of hearts" should be ruled out. It's really pretty and lovely, but not for a girl that says she doesn't like princess cuts. It is basically a princess cut.

A POH is NOT basically a princess cut. There's nothing about it that is similar.

As someone that love the asscher shape but more faceted cushion/radiant look - I loved the "compromise" of a POH. The POH is in fact better than anything I had ever seen before researching diamonds.

Your option is to buy the stone, but it in a temp solitaire and upgrade with GOG if she doesn't like it. If she does like it, she can pick out a setting she likes. She gets the surprise engagement, plus none of the risk of not liking her ring and feeling guilty about that (many women on here do). Problem solved.

Hey webdiva - just to set me straight, because I didn't want to give bad advice...the princess of hearts is a square hearts and arrows diamond. So, instead of the H&A round, it is square...so, yes, not a princess cut.

Is this "unique," yes. It is an ideal cut diamond and will be beautiful. Webdiva can attest to that.

I'm pretty sure you are more than happy to exchange it if she doesn't like it. But, what if she doesn't say anything and is thinking the whole time "arg...he got me a princess cut diamond."

Thanks webdiva for sticking up for me (and the cut)!

This is what I'm going to do: Look at the 1.7 POH, a few AVC's (smaller & more colorless and larger & warmer), and look at an unbranded cushion.

I found a 1.13 AVC I may look at - way smaller from a ct point than I wanted, but from a face up standpoint, it's 6.14x6.33. The POH is 1.7 ct and 6.65x6.65... so only half a millimeter by a third of a millimeter in difference. Not much.

There's also a 1 and 3/4 ct modern cush that's 6.9x6.9. J in color. Again, the 1.13 AVC is still less than 3/4 of a millimeter smaller.

I've been calculating price per square mm to come up with value. $240 per square mm for the 1.13 AVC; $286 per square mm for the POH. Of course, math isn't everything. I'll see them all soon in person.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I think you are too swayed by the price on the PoH. A PoH is a beautiful stone, but it in no way is like a cushion or asscher.

And regarding an AVC that is 6.3x 6.1...that is a really small stone for someone with a $12k stone budget.

 

[yopeyone]

I think you are too swayed by the price on the PoH. A PoH is a beautiful stone, but it in no way is like a cushion or asscher.

And regarding an AVC that is 6.3x 6.1...that is a really small stone for someone with a $12k stone budget.

Absolutely - I love value & knowing I got a "deal". The POH wins in the value department hands down.

I would like to go bigger on the AVC, but I need to make a decision based on current stock. Again, the one I was going to most likely buy was poached on me right here on PS (that one was 6.40 x 6.83... $12,500). I felt J was already pushing it, but I need to see the warmer stones L & M to make sure they're not too warm. Again, awesome stones but this is an engagement ring so I want to play it safe w/ color. A faint hint is ok, but I still want it to be as white as I can.

The 12k is an arbitrary number set by me to be honest. I went into this thinking 10-12 would be my limit as I felt it was a good round number where I can get a nice enough looking stone without spending crazy money. Not tiny but not huge.

Lastly, how noticable is a fraction of a mm? I'm not being sarcastic - it just seems like such a small difference from a # standpoint.

 

[milton333]

I think you are too swayed by the price on the PoH. A PoH is a beautiful stone, but it in no way is like a cushion or asscher.

And regarding an AVC that is 6.3x 6.1...that is a really small stone for someone with a $12k stone budget.

Absolutely - I love value & knowing I got a "deal". The POH wins in the value department hands down.

I would like to go bigger on the AVC, but I need to make a decision based on current stock. Again, the one I was going to most likely buy was poached on me right here on PS (that one was 6.40 x 6.83... $12,500). I felt J was already pushing it, but I need to see the warmer stones L & M to make sure they're not too warm. Again, awesome stones but this is an engagement ring so I want to play it safe w/ color. A faint hint is ok, but I still want it to be as white as I can.

The 12k is an arbitrary number set by me to be honest. I went into this thinking 10-12 would be my limit as I felt it was a good round number where I can get a nice enough looking stone without spending crazy money. Not tiny but not huge.

IMO, with a good budget for a stone, I would NOT get a stone J color or below unless she has specifically said that size trumps all and she's willing to see a tint to get it. IF she wants an antique stone and likes it to be tinted and is okay defending it from friends, family and random strangers expressing "it's yellow," then look at an M. But you absolutely will see tint in an L or an M.

And most of the people on here talking about colors that low are buying them for themselves with full knowledge, not receiving them as surprise gifts. Also, many of them romanticize the color - it "looks antique, like vintage lace." If your GF specifically wanted an antique or antique-looking stone, MAYBE she'd feel the same way. Personally, I'd be pretty unhappy to receive an L or M colored stone for an engagement ring, no matter the "history" of the ring, and I'm not very color sensitive - have an H, looking at upgrading to a larger I, got a J for my original e-ring when I was 19.

A couple of things to note about "I have an L, and it's not yellow at all."

1. Yellow is by far the most common color modifier for near-white or slight tint diamonds, but it's not the only possibility. Brown and grey are also possible. The color grade is a measure of saturation (like 5%, 15%, etc.). So many people who say that their P colored stone isn't yellow, but is instead "beige, off-white" or "steely" are completely accurate about that, because those stones have non-yellow modifiers. But yellow is far, far more common, and there are very strong societal/cultural negative reactions to yellow tint in diamonds almost across all social spectra. Someone, either GF or someone she knows/meets, is going to point out her yellow diamond with some sort of smug, mocking expression and make her feel bad. She may have a spectacularly cut, excellent-performing stone, but most non-cut-nuts don't get that - they see color. Even someone with a poorly-cut, badly included E color stone is going to feel superior to someone with an ideal-cut M stone, and most people would agree. If a lower color is something that she really wants and is confident enough to defend, fine, but ...

2. Some people who say they see no yellow at all in lower colored stones are not color sensitive (don't perceive slight tint the same as others) or are self-deluding, IMO. Yes, a still pic tends to emphasize the tint because it deprives the stone of the play of light that distracts from it, but the tint is still there.

3. I absolutely admire the marketing efforts that allow some vendors to sell low-color stones, which would have commanded very low prices, at a mark-up because of ideal cut and the "antique-y" backstory. Much as I admire Hearts on Fire for selling hugely overpriced H&As based on their marketing campaigns. Or tinkering with the interior finish and badging to sell a Toyota as a Lexus, or a Ford as a Lincoln. But I'm a budget buyer, and while I admire it in a way (the chutzpah), I don't want to pay the premium. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the brand or the vendor, and admire their ability to occupy a niche, but in the broader world out there, an M color that's "ideal cut, like an antique" is just not going to generate the enthusiasm that it gets here.

I write this only because I've been around here, and lurking, for a long time, and it is only very recently that people have begun urging new posters to consider stones lower than J for surprise engagement rings, and I think there's a potential minefield there. Yes, you can get lovely stones and I'm not AT ALL denigrating people's rings in lower colors. And if budget is extremely limited, sometimes you have no choice. But the practical reality is that giving your GF a surprise engagement ring, when you have a 5-figure budget, that is visibly tinted is potentially a bad situation, and I would only advise it if your GF (1) knew about it beforehand, (2) asked for it herself with knowledge of the extent of your budget (i.e., knows that your budget isn't $2,500 and you can get a higher color), and (3) is self-confident enough to defend that diamond to every onlooker who will see and possibly comment derogatorily about the color.

Ultimately, here's what I'd suggest - ask GF if she wants to pick out the ring with you. If she wants you to handle it, then she trusts you to handle it, and I'd suggest that you trust your own judgment more than what you hear on an internet message board. We can give you the tools to make informed choices, but they are YOUR CHOICES. If you think she'll love a POH, you know her far better than we do.

 

[milton333]

The same can be said about an AVR / AVC. For most people, something roundish in shape is "a round diamond" and squarish in shape is "a princess cut diamond". If they MAYBE realize it's a cushion, they won't know the difference between a vintage cut and standard cut. It's more about what looks good.

+1

I don't know anyone in real life who knows what a cushion-cut diamond is. There's rounds and squares. Squares are called princesses. Period.

You said that GF doesn't want a princess, not that she's obsessed with whether people will THINK it's a princess. There's a difference. I want an Octavia Asscher some day (but a big one, so some day far off). No one I meet will ever know what the heck that is. I want it for ME, because it pleases me. I would never in a million years buy a princess, but would consider a POH, Quadex, etc., and love the Octavia. But having every yahoo think it's a princess, or some kind of mutant round or something, isn't going to deprive me of my enjoyment of it. And the critical point that I think people are missing is that I don't want a princess because I don't like that chevron facet pattern or the pointy corners. It's not the squareness, it's the facets. Maybe your GF feels the same.

Cushions are insanely trendy right now, but I actually don't care for them - the shape looks sloppy to me personally. I love the faceting of the August Vintage Round, but can't get into the AVCs. So it's certainly possible to want a square stone, not a princess, and not want a cushion. Only you know your GF well enough to know what she means when she says "unusual, square-ish, not a princess." We can give you suggestions, but it's not our choice.

 

[E B]

IMO, with a good budget for a stone, I would NOT get a stone J color or below unless she has specifically said that size trumps all and she's willing to see a tint to get it.

And most of the people on here talking about colors that low are buying them for themselves with full knowledge, not receiving them as surprise gifts. Also, many of them romanticize the color - it "looks antique, like vintage lace." If your GF specifically wanted an antique or antique-looking stone, MAYBE she'd feel the same way.

I agree with milton on the above (and certainly not because of my listing- if you check my post history, I've said this many times). For a surprise engagement ring, the safest way to go is near-colorless/colorless unless she's specified size above all or has mentioned she likes warmth. I've seen warm AVCs in person and yes, you will see tint in a K/L/M, which may be brought out further by the rose gold. Not a negative if you know it's what she wants, but a gamble if you don't.

Does she know you're shopping at all? Are you able to show her photos of different diamond colors while keeping everything else a surprise?

 

[yopeyone]

I think you are too swayed by the price on the PoH. A PoH is a beautiful stone, but it in no way is like a cushion or asscher.

And regarding an AVC that is 6.3x 6.1...that is a really small stone for someone with a $12k stone budget.

Absolutely - I love value & knowing I got a "deal". The POH wins in the value department hands down.

I would like to go bigger on the AVC, but I need to make a decision based on current stock. Again, the one I was going to most likely buy was poached on me right here on PS (that one was 6.40 x 6.83... $12,500). I felt J was already pushing it, but I need to see the warmer stones L & M to make sure they're not too warm. Again, awesome stones but this is an engagement ring so I want to play it safe w/ color. A faint hint is ok, but I still want it to be as white as I can.

The 12k is an arbitrary number set by me to be honest. I went into this thinking 10-12 would be my limit as I felt it was a good round number where I can get a nice enough looking stone without spending crazy money. Not tiny but not huge.

IMO, with a good budget for a stone, I would NOT get a stone J color or below unless she has specifically said that size trumps all and she's willing to see a tint to get it. IF she wants an antique stone and likes it to be tinted and is okay defending it from friends, family and random strangers expressing "it's yellow," then look at an M. But you absolutely will see tint in an L or an M.

And most of the people on here talking about colors that low are buying them for themselves with full knowledge, not receiving them as surprise gifts. Also, many of them romanticize the color - it "looks antique, like vintage lace." If your GF specifically wanted an antique or antique-looking stone, MAYBE she'd feel the same way. Personally, I'd be pretty unhappy to receive an L or M colored stone for an engagement ring, no matter the "history" of the ring, and I'm not very color sensitive - have an H, looking at upgrading to a larger I, got a J for my original e-ring when I was 19.

A couple of things to note about "I have an L, and it's not yellow at all."

1. Yellow is by far the most common color modifier for near-white or slight tint diamonds, but it's not the only possibility. Brown and grey are also possible. The color grade is a measure of saturation (like 5%, 15%, etc.). So many people who say that their P colored stone isn't yellow, but is instead "beige, off-white" or "steely" are completely accurate about that, because those stones have non-yellow modifiers. But yellow is far, far more common, and there are very strong societal/cultural negative reactions to yellow tint in diamonds almost across all social spectra. Someone, either GF or someone she knows/meets, is going to point out her yellow diamond with some sort of smug, mocking expression and make her feel bad. She may have a spectacularly cut, excellent-performing stone, but most non-cut-nuts don't get that - they see color. Even someone with a poorly-cut, badly included E color stone is going to feel superior to someone with an ideal-cut M stone, and most people would agree. If a lower color is something that she really wants and is confident enough to defend, fine, but ...

2. Some people who say they see no yellow at all in lower colored stones are not color sensitive (don't perceive slight tint the same as others) or are self-deluding, IMO. Yes, a still pic tends to emphasize the tint because it deprives the stone of the play of light that distracts from it, but the tint is still there.

3. I absolutely admire the marketing efforts that allow some vendors to sell low-color stones, which would have commanded very low prices, at a mark-up because of ideal cut and the "antique-y" backstory. Much as I admire Hearts on Fire for selling hugely overpriced H&As based on their marketing campaigns. Or tinkering with the interior finish and badging to sell a Toyota as a Lexus, or a Ford as a Lincoln. But I'm a budget buyer, and while I admire it in a way (the chutzpah), I don't want to pay the premium. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the brand or the vendor, and admire their ability to occupy a niche, but in the broader world out there, an M color that's "ideal cut, like an antique" is just not going to generate the enthusiasm that it gets here.

I write this only because I've been around here, and lurking, for a long time, and it is only very recently that people have begun urging new posters to consider stones lower than J for surprise engagement rings, and I think there's a potential minefield there. Yes, you can get lovely stones and I'm not AT ALL denigrating people's rings in lower colors. And if budget is extremely limited, sometimes you have no choice. But the practical reality is that giving your GF a surprise engagement ring, when you have a 5-figure budget, that is visibly tinted is potentially a bad situation, and I would only advise it if your GF (1) knew about it beforehand, (2) asked for it herself with knowledge of the extent of your budget (i.e., knows that your budget isn't $2,500 and you can get a higher color), and (3) is self-confident enough to defend that diamond to every onlooker who will see and possibly comment derogatorily about the color.

Ultimately, here's what I'd suggest - ask GF if she wants to pick out the ring with you. If she wants you to handle it, then she trusts you to handle it, and I'd suggest that you trust your own judgment more than what you hear on an internet message board. We can give you the tools to make informed choices, but they are YOUR CHOICES. If you think she'll love a POH, you know her far better than we do.

Tremendously helpful response. Thanks for keeping me / us grounded here. It's easy to get caught up in opinions when you know nothing and you're talking to a bunch of diamond enthusiasts. I feel the same way regarding color - I can see going for a more tinted color for some other ring/piece of jewelry, but not for a surprise e-ring. I don't want to drop 5 figures on something people are going to point out flaws with (especially when they probably have I2 Zales stones that cost half the price.

It's funny, because I actually have stumbled across this site years back - just when trying to learn the basics while bored at work, and all I remember were threads about "Hearts & Arrows!"

Large faceted cushions and rounds with lower colors seem to be the new "Hearts & Arrows" on here, so to speak. Again, I'm doing this with the help of somebody that knows her tastes, so I'm not completely in the dark, but I did come here for opinions and opinions I got.

 

[yopeyone]

IMO, with a good budget for a stone, I would NOT get a stone J color or below unless she has specifically said that size trumps all and she's willing to see a tint to get it.

And most of the people on here talking about colors that low are buying them for themselves with full knowledge, not receiving them as surprise gifts. Also, many of them romanticize the color - it "looks antique, like vintage lace." If your GF specifically wanted an antique or antique-looking stone, MAYBE she'd feel the same way.

I agree with milton on the above (and certainly not because of my listing- if you check my post history, I've said this many times). For a surprise engagement ring, the safest way to go is near-colorless/colorless unless she's specified size above all or has mentioned she likes warmth. I've seen warm AVCs in person and yes, you will see tint in a K/L/M, which may be brought out further by the rose gold. Not a negative if you know it's what she wants, but a gamble if you don't.

Does she know you're shopping at all? Are you able to show her photos of different diamond colors while keeping everything else a surprise?

She doesn't know. Well, she may have a hint because when she mentioned friends rings I pried for more info on what she liked. But we decided to keep old fashioned and not do the whole shop together / "surprise" 2 months later thing. We just found it kind of too calculated for us. We like surprises.

 

[yopeyone]

Just want to back up previous claims here and look at some facts. I found this really interesting...

Using Google Insights, I looked at search volume between two search terms: "Hearts and Arrows" vs "Vintage Cushion". Can you guess which is which?

 

[mandasand]

The blue line is "vintage cushion."

 

[Dougsgirl]

You gave me great advice in my last posting... you said "Go with your gut".
That was right on.

I can sense that you are getting frustrated with all the "advice" and opinions, especially since most of it is not backing up what you want us to say. I think you want us to say that a POH is a great choice and your girl will love it. If YOU think it's a great choice and YOU think she will love it... then... Go with your gut.

I do agree with the previous post about not going too far down in color, however. Yes, I just bought a J colored stone and I can notice a tint in it in certain lighting. But I am OK with that, I LIKE it, and to ME it looks like an antique stone in an antique setting. Or at least has a "romantic/vintagey" feel to it. But when I looked at the L color in person it was MUCH too yellow for me!

For a surprise stone, I would encourage you to not go lower than J. Maybe even I if budget allows. But I personally prefer size, and I'm OK with a little warmth for a bigger stone. But I would not want "yellow tinted", unless it was a fancy yellow. I prefer the beige/brown/steel modifiers that make the stone look like pale ginger-ale, not lemonade. But for a surprise, I would go as big and as white as you can in your budget.

Also... regarding size differences... check out my photos that are in this thread, page 6, about halfway down the page.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/august-vintage-round-oec-n-color-nervous.174356/page-6']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/august-vintage-round-oec-n-color-nervous.174356/page-6[/URL]

It compares a 1.87 J AVC with a 1.79 L AVC. The L was 7.1 x 7.22 mm. The J is 7.11 x 7.57...
This looks like a very negligible difference, however the size (to me) was very noticeable when I had them side-by-side.

Good luck!!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'll be the first to say that I don't generally recommend rounds or princess cuts below I color. Antique cushions are the only ones that I would go below I color. I do want to remind people that you were talking about a rose gold halo, and those look good (or better) with stones that have a little tint. I actually think a higher color diamond in platinum is the very best choice and the most timeless. But I was trying to help you with a stone with the stated preferences of cushion or asscher in a rose gold halo!